End this sausage fest plz

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End this sausage fest plz

Post by Student on Wed May 11, 2016 10:20 pm

It turns out pretty much everyone I know is a guy (and most of them are single)

Even those who are less "geeky" still don't know any women.

I know a few women. None of them are single.

I go to parties when given the opportunity but they're mostly frequented by guys who are single and women who are not.

I'm a member of a club at university, but there's only one woman in it (and she's not single). Almost all the guys in it are single. (just an observation)

I've tried taking tango classes but I had to drop out for reasons: One particular woman there is not really a teacher but she has a kind of assistant teacher role as a veteran of the tango community here or something and she sticks to all the classes (except the most basic level) like gum to a shoe. Her personality is absolutely hideous (i'm extremely laid back and she is super bossy in a really annoying way) and there's no way to reject dancing with a particular person without making a huge scene of it. I figured I'd avoid the terrible personality clash by simply dropping the class entirely.

Everyone I know who has a gf either met her
1 - Through friends or relatives.
2 - In class.

Number one is nearly impossible because quite frankly nobody I know seems to know any single women. Number two is unlikely because the subject I study seems to be repulsive to women (I've had people (women only) make "eww gross" reactions when telling them what I study at a pub once). (computer science). Sidenote: This has made me switch to an approach where I, rather than mention what I study, explain what I learn.

Either way I'm tired of only having guys around all the time, but I can't think of a single way to make my life less of a sausage fest.

I've looked into meetup but it seems to be extremely male-centric in this country. The one group I found that had women in it was a trekking group. Not my thing at all.

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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Wondering on Wed May 11, 2016 10:46 pm

One, computer science is not repulsive to women. My husband was a computer science major and that's been his career thus far, for 19 years. So, you know, don't extrapolate a few bad experiences to all of us.

Two, are you looking to meet women to date, in which case online dating would be an option, or just to have more women friends and acquaintances in general?

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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by eselle28 on Thu May 12, 2016 1:03 am

I echo what Wondering is asking, because I'm hearing two different kinds of frustration - one, that you only have guys around you all the time, and the other, that there aren't any women you know who are eligible to date. I'd particularly note that you seem to know a number of women who are already in relationships. Have you considered cultivating friendships with those women, if you enjoy spending time with any of them platonically? That's often a good way of counterbalancing a feeling that you only spend time around men, and these friendships can often be entry points into small social groups that contain more women, including some who may be single. I'd also suggest considering whether there's anything you might enjoy that falls outside of geeky or computer-science related hobbies (I'd sort of even count dance in that, as it seems to be a really common response by geeky men when they realize they don't know many women). There are presumably lots of clubs at your school, and assuming women are represented relatively evenly there, they're presumably hanging out somewhere. Maybe it would be fun to take some time to learn about something entirely new and outside of your comfort zone? On the other hand, if you are purely looking to date, I might suggest online dating as well. It's harder for the youngest men than for guys a few years older, but it may be more fruitful if you're not willing to go the slow route of finding out where women are socializing in your area.

On the point of your studies, I would urge you not to generalize that to being some sort of gendered distaste for your field. Most people have experienced someone expressing distaste for their field of study for one reason or another. I went to law school and have some personal experiences with that, but have heard women who studied everything from music performance to physics to women's studies note others' negative reactions to their fields. Other people who study subjects less familiar to the general public are more likely to encounter a simple conversational block, because few people know enough about linguistics or neurobiology to think of much to say in response. This isn't a "who has it worse," but more of a, "this is a universal problem." I think you've picked the right tactic of explaining what you learn rather than just giving the name of your major, but I think you'd do well to approach women without anticipating repulsion and to remember that in the future you may need to explain your field of study or job responsibilities to men in a descriptive way as well.
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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Student on Thu May 12, 2016 4:52 am

Wondering: I'm not primarily looking for dating, though I consider dating a potential side effect. The thing is I do absolutely terrible with online dating.

The few situations I've been in when women have actually been interested in me have always been long term things. We've been in the same class. Happened a few times already back when I studied something non-computerish, but they never became actual relationships because I used to have severe social phobia.

Eselle28: Both. I'm annoyed by the fact that there are only guys around, and everyone is trying to get me involved in even more projects and activites than I'm already involved in, and those activites will also only involve other men. I've already said to several people that "nope I'm not doing that".

That thing about clubs is a big issue. There are a few clubs but either you join one that has women in it, or you join one that's interesting.

My interests are fairly flexible, but there are no relevant clubs and I'm not interested in creating one: Composing music, playing in a band (i've played in four), drawing, programming, playing games (boardgames, computer games), reading books

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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Wondering on Thu May 12, 2016 12:45 pm

So. one thing I'm noticing in what you post is some low grade negative attitudes toward women. You have treated women as a monolith who all have the same opinions about computer science because some women you've encountered do. You're now implying that women don't do anything interesting by saying you either join clubs with women or you join interesting clubs.

I don't know if you're aware of this, if you really hold these attitudes, if you're exaggerating for written effect, or what. But if they're real attitudes, the chances that you speak or behave in a way that reflects these attitudes in real life is high. And that's frequently something that people pick up on.

I'm put off by these comments, and I'm trying to offer advice. Women you are trying to socialize with would be more likely to be put off.

Now, none of that helps you actually meet more people who are women. But you already have expressed negative attitudes about what you think women are interested in, so I'm wondering how well you've assessed what activities they may be doing, what groups you'd find them in, etc. If you're not encountering many women in your day to day life, you're going to have to step out of your comfort zone a bit to do other things.

For one, if there are no reading clubs at school, are there any at nearby bookstores? I'm not surprised there are none at a university. Students do so much reading as work, doing it recreationally might not be at the top of social activities.

Also, except for band and board games, everything you've listed that you're interested in is primarily a solo activity. Plus, they're all nerd or nerd-adjacent activities. As a lot of us nerd women have discussed 'round about these parts in the past, even those of us who are nerd women often stay away from nerd-male dominated activity groups because of our bad experiences with nerd men. As such, do you have interests outside the nerd realm that you might venture into?

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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Enail on Thu May 12, 2016 1:07 pm

If you're not looking to meet women primarily for dating, I'm not clear why it's a problem that the women you're meeting are not single? As Eselle points out, getting to know not-single women is both a good way to spend more time with people who aren't men, and is likely to put you in contact with more women (including single ones) for future it-would-be-cool-if-I met-someone-to-date-ness.

Have you looked around in your area for drop-in sketch nights? A lot of places have regular meetups combining life drawing with coffee or beer for a more sociable take on what's usually a pretty solitary activity. And since they're usually drop-in, it's less of a commitment if you're overscheduled, though unless you're very good at meeting people, you'd probably need to go a fair bit to get to know other attendees. Dr. Sketchy's is one that has branches in tons of places.
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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Werel on Thu May 12, 2016 2:15 pm

Another thing maybe worth considering, if you're finding that the groups you're joining/folks you're meeting in your own town aren't clicking for you: are there larger events in nearby cities you could go to (cons, music festivals, etc.) and then try to keep in touch with cool people you meet there via the event's facebook page/forum/whatever? That way you're not restricted to your specific city, not committed to regular events if you're busy, but still get to be a kinda familiar face to a new, more gender-balanced social circle?

And totally thirding the suggestion to develop friendships with some of the non-single women in your vicinity who you get along with. Lessens the sausagefest problem and it's always, always good to get more experience just hanging out with women as a cool friend, especially if that's a thing you haven't done much of in college.
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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Student on Thu May 12, 2016 2:17 pm

Wondering: Partially for effect. Mostly because the only one club that had women in it I managed to find was a riding club. Nope. I'm not an animal person (though I wouldn't mind having a cat).

The problem is lack of exposure rather than rejection. As far as I know I'm not being actively avoided (that would really surprise me). The few women I know seem to enjoy my company (and I their).

Tango was an attempt at stepping out of my comfort zone, but as I mentioned above I had to quit. I've thought about picking up swing dancing instead.

Enail: Probably me being a bit too vague. It's not just that there are no singles. It just makes the situation more annoying hence why I even made a point of it in the first place. It was more of a rhetorical thing, really.

Your suggestion regarding drawing is a great idea. I will see if there are any activities like that here. Your post made me look up Dr Sketchy and they actually have presence here in this country albeit in a location I'm unable to attend (wrong city).

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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by DrTovah on Sun May 15, 2016 11:56 am

Hi Student, This is my first posting in the forum, I registered specifically to reply to you. So my apologies in advance for any forum faux pas I may commit.

Switch the genders and few minor details around, and I could have written your posting. The kicker is that I was an IT major and I have a prior degree in another science. As a benefit of my employer, I can take very discounted college courses, so I do take courses now and then, even years out of school. Folks would think being surrounded mostly by men I have my pick of intelligent men that shared many of my interests.

However, specific to me, I found that many of the men that were in my classes, nearby, or in activities said they were already involved or just not interested in dating or women or specifically me. If they were single, I didn't fit their 'type' so it was as if I was no use for them (not even as friend). While I am not plus size, I am not thin either (just 'average' body type). I tend to wear modest, practical rather than fancy clothes everyday though I will dress up as the occasion warrants. Or that I was slightly older than their age range. Or as a shy person, I wasn't the bubbly type they wanted. These all things that men over the years have told me. Or if a man did approach me, it wasn't for dating but strictly for a physical interaction.  

Thus I got comfortable being on my own. I'd love it if I ever ended up meeting someone, but I've accepted, that may or may not happen no matter what I try or not. I need to find things that interest me or maybe interest me if I give it a chance. Meeting someone or just making friends, both male and female as a bonus. So activity is the goal, anything else is an extra blessing. Since we are both technically minded, I'm just going to throw out some ideas of things I like and I notice women at that maybe would work for you:

You are on the right track with dancing. Most places need more male partners. At gyms, many of the exercise classes are mostly women. I get if step aerobics might not be your thing, but maybe martial arts?

Meet-up groups that involve exercise--running, biking, training for a race. Often people meet up for breakfast or beer afterwards. A great mix of people. I use to hate running, but I do need physical activity for health, so I am improving myself while being with other folks. Also there are charities that put on runs as fund raisers, so you can meet people there as well.

Cooking classes--I also found through meet up but community centers, caterers, even supermarkets and restaurants have theme classes for cooking either a different style or holiday meal. You work with other folks to make a gourmet meal and then eat together and maybe have leftovers. The nicer events can be a bit pricey, think like going out to a nice restaurant. In my experience, mostly women of all ages. My brother who lives 5 hours away go to these in his area and often there's only 1 or 2 other men.

Dining meetups--These tend to be a bit older crowd in my area. Small groups go out to restaurants they wouldn't normally go to by one's self. Sometimes these are pricey, though no one will care if you just have an appetizer or soup rather than a full meal.

Home Improvement classes--My local hardware store offers a few hour class in home tasks like putting up a ceiling fan, shelving, how to paint a room, etc. Doesn't matter if you don't have a house yet. You are learning something useful maybe for later.

Community theater(or orchestra/band) --I'm seriously introverted, so I don't mean on stage. But there are plenty of behind the scenes jobs, lighting and south booth (these are often computer or old boards, even for a tech person to figure out), set design and construction, wardrobe. Cast parties are fun and you'll also be around some very outgoing folks too. Also ren fairs, conventions, even something like a comedy or clown troupe needs behinds the scenes folks and you might get paid a little.

I like gardening, but to make it a bit technical I like niches like hydroponics, tropical garden, square foot. A lot of men and women are involved. Same folks often like other outdoorsy things like bird watching, beach cleanups. There's other volunteer activities. A lot of bookstores also have book clubs, though I tend to not read what is popular.

I have found the more interesting things I try even if I don't keep them, it makes me a better and more interesting person. Hope this helps and thanks for letting me break the ice Smile

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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Student on Sun May 15, 2016 8:36 pm

It's unfortunate if someone took my comment above as an attack on things which women find interesting. That was not my intent. What I meant with what I said was that I found it quite annoying that at this university there's a very narrow selection of clubs and the few that seem to attract women are those which I find extremely boring. Riding, for example. That's just not my thing.

DrTovah wrote:Hi Student, This is my first posting in the forum, I registered specifically to reply to you. So my apologies in advance for any forum faux pas I may commit.

Switch the genders and few minor details around, and I could have written your posting. The kicker is that I was an IT major and I have a prior degree in another science. As a benefit of my employer, I can take very discounted college courses, so I do take courses now and then, even years out of school. Folks would think being surrounded mostly by men I have my pick of intelligent men that shared many of my interests.

However, specific to me, I found that many of the men that were in my classes, nearby, or in activities said they were already involved or just not interested in dating or women or specifically me. If they were single, I didn't fit their 'type' so it was as if I was no use for them (not even as friend). While I am not plus size, I am not thin either (just 'average' body type). I tend to wear modest, practical rather than fancy clothes everyday though I will dress up as the occasion warrants. Or that I was slightly older than their age range. Or as a shy person, I wasn't the bubbly type they wanted. These all things that men over the years have told me. Or if a man did approach me, it wasn't for dating but strictly for a physical interaction.

That sucks Sad

I was in a similar situation back when I was studying art some ten years ago or so, but far less crappy. It was a class of about 20 people with only two guys in it. To my "advantage" I wasn't interested in any of the women, and none of them seemed to be interested in me so no loss to anyone there.

DrTovah wrote:Thus I got comfortable being on my own. I'd love it if I ever ended up meeting someone, but I've accepted, that may or may not happen no matter what I try or not. I need to find things that interest me or maybe interest me if I give it a chance. Meeting someone or just making friends, both male and female as a bonus. So activity is the goal, anything else is an extra blessing. Since we are both technically minded, I'm just going to throw out some ideas of things I like and I notice women at that maybe would work for you:

You are on the right track with dancing. Most places need more male partners. At gyms, many of the exercise classes are mostly women. I get if step aerobics might not be your thing, but maybe martial arts?

Yes I agree about not going to the activity for the purpose of finding people to date.

I actually picked up dancing in the first place because I saw some notice about a lack of guys. I did not go into it to date people but to simply meet more people, and in that way it was successful. Aerobics are not my thing but martial arts is something I might actually try after summer. Will see how that pans out.

DrTovah wrote:Meet-up groups that involve exercise--running, biking, training for a race. Often people meet up for breakfast or beer afterwards. A great mix of people. I use to hate running, but I do need physical activity for health, so I am improving myself while being with other folks. Also there are charities that put on runs as fund raisers, so you can meet people there as well.

Meet up groups are hard to find here. A quick scan of the groups revealed that they were either "let's discuss stock trading" or "let's take extremely long walks". (3 hours? nope)

DrTovah wrote:Cooking classes--I also found through meet up but community centers, caterers, even supermarkets and restaurants have theme classes for cooking either a different style or holiday meal. You work with other folks to make a gourmet meal and then eat together and maybe have leftovers. The nicer events can be a bit pricey, think like going out to a nice restaurant. In my experience, mostly women of all ages. My brother who lives 5 hours away go to these in his area and often there's only 1 or 2 other men.

That's ingenious! I love cooking. Why didn't I think of that? Not sure if there are any relevant events, though. I'll have to look around a bit.

DrTovah wrote:Dining meetups--These tend to be a bit older crowd in my area. Small groups go out to restaurants they wouldn't normally go to by one's self. Sometimes these are pricey, though no one will care if you just have an appetizer or soup rather than a full meal.

I love going to restaurants. I go alone quite often. Not sure how to find people doing this, though. I'll look for it.

DrTovah wrote:Community theater(or orchestra/band) --I'm seriously introverted, so I don't mean on stage. But there are plenty of behind the scenes jobs, lighting and south booth (these are often computer or old boards, even for a tech person to figure out), set design and construction, wardrobe. Cast parties are fun and you'll also be around some very outgoing folks too. Also ren fairs, conventions, even something like a comedy or clown troupe needs behinds the scenes folks and you might get paid a little.

Bands are fun! I think I mentioned in my first post that I've played in several bands before but that was in my "social phobia" period and the only women I met were girlfriends of other band members. On a related subject: I tried for some 70's style fashion thing for a while which made me look a bit too much like an early tech startup kind of person. Now I'm trying to go full on hipster instead and it's a major improvement.

Ren fairs are definitely interesting, but it seems to be quite an american phenomenon. I'm not convinced that they exist in this country. Will have to do some research.

DrTovah wrote:I like gardening, but to make it a bit technical I like niches like hydroponics, tropical garden, square foot. A lot of men and women are involved. Same folks often like other outdoorsy things like bird watching, beach cleanups. There's other volunteer activities. A lot of bookstores also have book clubs, though I tend to not read what is popular.

I have found the more interesting things I try even if I don't keep them, it makes me a better and more interesting person. Hope this helps and thanks for letting me break the ice Smile

That's a good idea though. It might be worth trying something even if you don't stick with it.

I'm not going to do gardening though! It bores me to tears! Admittedly I would like a nice garden, but I'm not sure I could motivate myself to maintain it in a presentable state for long.

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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by DrTovah on Mon May 16, 2016 8:51 pm

I don't know what is popular in your area to list meetings. I brought up meetup since that is popular in major cities that I've lived. Maybe Craigslist club or activity section? At school, there may be a student lounge with a bulletin area. Same for community centers. In my local newspapers, there in the ad section, there is area to advertise events for free.



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Re: End this sausage fest plz

Post by Student on Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:18 pm

Bumping this just because.

The club has improved by leaps and bounds and is no longer just a guys' club. We have two active women members and one semi-active and things are actively being worked on (the club is arranging activities open to the general public).

Through one of the new members I've managed to get involved in board game evenings with a crowd different from the usual (I'm a member of another board game group which alas has an enormous gender imbalance and a third one which has no women at all).

Overall this gave me the opportunity to ask one woman out for a date (was turned down, though).

I strive for more improvements next year. Will start going to practice sessions in nude model drawing and will drop the third board game group.

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