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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:46 pm

Manga Vol 5:

-This guy pick Guts up like a sack of flour and all he gets is a bloody lip? Pippin is clearly Gut's new bff!  Laughing
-poor Casca, no one drags her into the party  :/
-conviction in everything, huh? That's an interesting way to describe someone. An interesting way to be, too.
-OMG, Guts play-fighting, that's a moment of cute innocence I never thought we'd see. ...What horrible thing is about to happen now? Uh-oh
-Oh shit, the behelit.
-Impish, childlike Griffith is unsettling, you can't help wondering what's behind it
-And there it is. He certainly is compelling, the creator's pulled that off perfectly.
-What I wanna know is, where does Guts get all these oversized swords that don't break. It's one thing at the beginning/future with his special giant sword, but he puts all his swords through that!
-I'm really enjoying seeing how he's changed with the Hawks, that it bothers him to be accused of not caring about his comrades, that he tries to explain himself to Griffith, he's got a place in the world that's meaningful to him.
-Aaah, at last we've found a demonic fighter, I was missing all the gore Razz
-got to give Casca credit, when everyone else is flipping out about the monster, her first move is to cover Griffith.
-Guts beating people up with his crutch, this is my kind of content!  Shiny/thrilled
-How like Griffith, to be happy to have seen a demon because it's proof of something bigger

@Student, yeah, I agree, at least for the manga, it has a genuineness that makes it all work when otherwise it could just be grimdark angst.
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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:36 pm

Manga Vol 5:

Enail wrote:
-This guy pick Guts up like a sack of flour and all he gets is a bloody lip? Pippin is clearly Gut's new bff!  Laughing
-poor Casca, no one drags her into the party  :/
Yeah, that scene always gets me... all the Hawks are patting Guts on the shoulder and arm (and picking him up like a sack of flour Laughing) and he just... takes it, because yep, he finally wants to make an effort to (safely) belong somewhere. :/


-What I wanna know is, where does Guts get all these oversized swords that don't break. It's one thing at the beginning/future with his special giant sword, but he puts all his swords through that!
Heh heh heh. Good thought. Keep it in mind for volume 7.

-got to give Casca credit, when everyone else is flipping out about the monster, her first move is to cover Griffith.
She's no mad dog. Plus, she can throw a solid punch at a dude Guts' size despite being like 5'2".  Lovestruck

-Guts beating people up with his crutch, this is my kind of content!  Shiny/thrilled
rofl

-How like Griffith, to be happy to have seen a demon because it's proof of something bigger
And to be passed out for the pivotal moment where his own fate is spelled out by said demon, and to not see the Behelit have its first real effect. Plausible deniability out the ass, what a shrewd strategy. "Who, me? Possessor of a supernatural fate? Nah nah I'm just a beautiful impish child who was asleep for all that, tee hee"

And "Do I need a reason every time I put my life on the line for your sake?" Man... maybe it's just my weak spot for portrayals of intense, complicated male friendships, but my heart got ping-ponged around every time Griffith let slip some real(-seeming) non-pragmatic attachment to Guts.

Also, Enail, you're caught up to anime episode 6, you can open those spoiler tags now. Wink
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:12 pm

Werel wrote:
Manga Vol 5:

Yeah, that scene always gets me... all the Hawks are patting Guts on the shoulder and arm (and picking him up like a sack of flour Laughing) and he just... takes it, because yep, he finally wants to make an effort to (safely) belong somewhere. :/

Spoiler:

Yep.  It wouldn't be so affecting without having seen him both before and after, you know how rare and precious a moment this is and that it's not going to last. Happy tears  :/  nailbiting panic

Spoiler:


-How like Griffith, to be happy to have seen a demon because it's proof of something bigger
And to be passed out for the pivotal moment where his own fate is spelled out by said demon, and to not see the Behelit have its first real effect. Plausible deniability out the ass, what a shrewd strategy. "Who, me? Possessor of a supernatural fate? Nah nah I'm just a beautiful impish child who was asleep for all that, tee hee"

That's a good point. Side-eye

And "Do I need a reason every time I put my life on the line for your sake?" Man... maybe it's just my weak spot for portrayals of intense, complicated male friendships, but my heart got ping-ponged around every time Griffith let slip some real(-seeming) non-pragmatic attachment to Guts.

And it's such a spot-on capture of that feeling of charisma, choosing and being chosen, and the edge of danger to it.  It's real - or seems real, but I'm not sure you can pull off Griffith-type charisma without a genuine intensity of feeling behind it - but that doesn't make it any safer, possibly the opposite. It's complicated, and they both know it.


Also, Enail, you're caught up to anime episode 6, you can open those spoiler tags now. Wink

If I can wade back that far  Snail



bomaye wrote:Episode 5
Spoiler:

- Just fuck already, GATSOO and Griffith
- Also, just fuck already GATSOO and Casca
- I hope neither of those comes back to haunt me in the future Sad

Spoiler:

They probably will/did, though Sad

bomaye wrote:Berserk 6

Spoiler:

- So when Griffith fails, Guts is gonna die? silent

Spoiler:
I took it less as a prediction of timing and more as a cause-effect, as in "you won't like Griffith when he's angry fails Uh-oh"
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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:23 pm

Enail wrote:
bomaye wrote:Berserk 6

Spoiler:

- So when Griffith fails, Guts is gonna die? silent

Spoiler:
I took it less as a prediction of timing and more as a cause-effect, as in "you won't like Griffith when he's angry fails Uh-oh"
You're both right and both wrong and it's so delicious Shiny/thrilled
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:52 pm

Werel wrote:You're both right and both wrong and it's so delicious Shiny/thrilled

Damn you! nailbiting panic
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Re: Berserk

Post by bomaye on Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:18 pm

Enail wrote:
bomaye wrote:
Werel wrote:Oh my god I'm being peer-pressured into watching the Berserk movies, what wonderful universe is this Happy tears

The peer pressure we're putting on Enail between watching Ajin and reading Berserk must be immense Uh-oh

It is! Sad How are you people so fast??

The funny thing is once you've passed the golden age, you're going to leapfrog me very quickly since the new anime is gonna be like half a year's worth of episodes Uh-oh

Enail wrote:
Manga Vol 5:

-How like Griffith, to be happy to have seen a demon because it's proof of something bigger
.

Dammnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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Re: Berserk

Post by bomaye on Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:33 am

Berserk The Golden Age Movie 2

This movie was awesome Shiny/thrilled

Spoiler:

- So, most of the criticisms I had animation-wise and as comparison to the anime persisted in this movie, but a lot less on all counts. I probably wouldn't rewatch the first movie, but I absolutely would rewatch this movie. Movie 1 was a clear #2 to the anime adaptation, Movie 2 is more like a 1a to the anime's #1, it's absolutely worthwhile to watch and not as strong as the anime but worthwhile in its own right
- So, major omissions: Zodd being present at the Battle of Doldrey, and the palace intrigue with the Queen and Foss are completely gone. And missed.
- The battle scenes Shiny/thrilled
- The way the stylistically included Casca's first meeting with Griffith as a fever-dream and in the same style as Guts past was revealed in the previous movie was pretty powerful
- I prefer the way Casca killed Adon in this to the flip move she did in the anime
- If anything, there is a dance scene in this movie that you absolutely have to see it for. If you care at all for the Band of the Hawks. This scene will wreck your shit.
- The sound effects and animation used for the standoff between Griffith and Guts was AMAZING, though we miss most of Griffith's internal monologue
- The sex scene between Charlotte and Griffith probably had a higher budget than the entire anime. This wasn't just a throwaway sex scene, it puts real life porn to shame.
- I prefer the movie for the takedown of the Hawks too, it shows Casca taking charge and rallying the troops and was a really awesome moment for her
- That fairy wasn't in the anime silent
- Was The King supposed to be the torturer in the anime? Because if it was, I completely missed that. However they did include reference to why he treated Griffith so badly, which never made sense to me in the anime.

Definitely watch it, but maybe watch part of Movie 1 to get used to the jumps in animation and stuff like that first
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:01 pm

Manga Vol 6:

-That "I'm totally innocent and polite" face
-The question is, is the princess going to die horribly before Griffith can use her in his race to the top or after? Uh-oh
-Okay, when you're seeing his face in the effin' moon, you're pretty far gone. Just go kiss him already, Guts!
-Or you could "wield your sword for his sake."  Wink wink nudge nudg I'm such a mature grown-up.
-This scene struck me, Guts' reaction, Casca's enigmatic expression.
-Guts seems a strange choice for assassin, he's awfully recognizable, and subtlety isn't generally his strong point. It almost feel more like Griffith's having him do it as some sort of mind game, weaving Guts in more tightly to his rise to power in all aspects, complicit and invested, whereas if he's just fighting in battles, it's what he'd do left to his own devices anyway, so it doesn't bind him in the same way.
-the look on Guts' face when he sees he's killed the kid Sad
-and wow, was I right that Guts is a bad assassin.  Surprised
-The whole scene with Guts and Casca watching as Griffith talks with the princess, seeing the push and pull of his words written on their faces, is ever so quietly, gently breaking my heart. They both know he's going to ruin them.
-And then that look... Damn.  Shudder
-Give her a break, Guts, she's got cramps!
-mouth-to-mouth, and then a 'we've got to get nekkid together to stay warm' scene?!  Laughing
-uhhhh, she's got a terrible fever from being on her period? Pretty sure that's not how periods work, unless she's got TSS  Uh-oh
-Not loving the whole classic 'woman can't do things because woman, so she gets irrationally violent and hysterical about it' thing. They manage to still give her a feeling of genuineness and dignity, and I like that what Griffith gave her was basically just the freedom to choose, but... as a reader, it's just so tiring and discouraging to be once again taken through the fiction-reader's version of that trope - "what did you expect, for the character you identify with to be genuinely as capable and important as other characters on the same level? Don't be silly, you're only a woman."  Like, it's sympathizing with that feeling of frustration with how the world and gender works, but it's also always been the thing that creates it for me almost more for me than anything in real life does - in the real world, I actually can be a reasonable, capable human being regardless of gender expectations often enough; in fiction, so often that's just pretending.  ...well, that was a rant Wink

Werel wrote:
ep 7-8:

bomaye wrote:- Immaturity alert: Guts just vowed to use his sword to fight for Griffith, but the way he's hold it makes it look like he's pointing his giant metal dick at the moon <___<
"No matter what it takes... I will impregnate the moon."

rofl I see I'm not the only very mature grown-up here.

Werel, I could use some guidance as to how the manga matches up with the anime episodes from here on?
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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:35 pm

We're all mature grown-ups here. Wink

Manga vol. 6:

Enail wrote:
-Okay, when you're seeing his face in the effin' moon, you're pretty far gone. Just go kiss him already, Guts!
rofl B-but.. it's just logic... his hair is silver like the moon, y'know...
Enail wrote:-Guts seems a strange choice for assassin, he's awfully recognizable, and subtlety isn't generally his strong point. It almost feel more like Griffith's having him do it as some sort of mind game, weaving Guts in more tightly to his rise to power in all aspects, complicit and invested, whereas if he's just fighting in battles, it's what he'd do left to his own devices anyway, so it doesn't bind him in the same way.
Yes. That's exactly how I read it. It's not that Guts was the best choice pragmatically (Judeau could've gotten it done silently, quickly, and without bystander casualties), it's that it was most important to have that on Guts. One more kind of leash. Not necessarily in an extortion kind of way, but to know that in Guts' internal landscape, Griffith has transformed into "someone I would kill a child for," and it's hard to come back from that.
Enail wrote:-The whole scene with Guts and Casca watching as Griffith talks with the princess, seeing the push and pull of his words written on their faces, is ever so quietly, gently breaking my heart. They both know he's going to ruin them.
Yeah. That scene is a killer.

(Especially given that I saw this show for the first time when I was like 19, and just beginning to discover the wide world of "deeply charismatic people who will, by their very nature, enchant and ruin you" Uh-oh)

Enail wrote:-uhhhh, she's got a terrible fever from being on her period? Pretty sure that's not how periods work, unless she's got TSS  Uh-oh
Yeahhh. innocent Though I've always given the author the benefit of the doubt and assumed that this was atypical for Casca somehow, or maybe the worst period she'd ever had, or she had TSS, or was otherwise really ill on top of it? Because f'real, cramps can be some incapacitating business, but fevers are not part of the package.

Enail wrote:Not loving the whole classic 'woman can't do things because woman, so she gets irrationally violent and hysterical about it' thing. They manage to still give her a feeling of genuineness and dignity, and I like that what Griffith gave her was basically just the freedom to choose, but... as a reader, it's just so tiring and discouraging to be once again taken through the fiction-reader's version of that trope - "what did you expect, for the character you identify with to be genuinely as capable and important as other characters on the same level? Don't be silly, you're only a woman."  Like, it's sympathizing with that feeling of frustration with how the world and gender works, but it's also always been the thing that creates it for me almost more for me than anything in real life does - in the real world, I actually can be a reasonable, capable human being regardless of gender expectations often enough; in fiction, so often that's just pretending.  ...well, that was a rant Wink
I think it may also be victim to the tsundere trope a little bit-- any successive moments of tenderness being set up to hit harder by her earlier anger and prickliness--but I agree that using Woman Troubles as a plot device here felt a little cheap. At the same time, I feel like her actions and feelings were pretty believable for who/where/when she is--she's got an amount of internalized misogyny, alongside a struggle to internally AND externally refute that misogyny, that also hit real close to home for 19-year-old me.

Werel wrote:
bomaye wrote:- Is GATSOO doing the "woman problems" thing to motivate Casca to keep going? silent
Yeah, because he knows there is no more efficient hot-button to activate her ANGERSHAME STRENGTH RESERVES (god I identify so hard with Casca ._.)

Definitely curious about which parts felt most like "she can't do as good because woman;" I haven't read these manga volumes in a few years, and I bet I'd have a different take on it now.

Looks like you're about caught up to episode 11. Going forwardddd.....

Manga 7 = Episodes 12-15
Manga 8 = Episodes 16-19
Manga 9 = Episodes 20-21 (plus some manga-only stuff)
Manga 10 = Episode 22 (plus tons of manga-only stuff)
Manga 11 = Basically none of this is in the show
Manga 12 = Episodes 23-24
Manga 13 = Episode 25 and a bit past it
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Thanks for those match-ups!

Manga vol. 6:

Werel wrote:
Enail wrote:
-Okay, when you're seeing his face in the effin' moon, you're pretty far gone. Just go kiss him already, Guts!
rofl B-but.. it's just logic... his hair is silver like the moon, y'know...
And when the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, well, you know what you've gotta do   Lovestruck


Enail wrote:-Guts seems a strange choice for assassin, he's awfully recognizable, and subtlety isn't generally his strong point. It almost feel more like Griffith's having him do it as some sort of mind game, weaving Guts in more tightly to his rise to power in all aspects, complicit and invested, whereas if he's just fighting in battles, it's what he'd do left to his own devices anyway, so it doesn't bind him in the same way.

Yes. That's exactly how I read it. It's not that Guts was the best choice pragmatically (Judeau could've gotten it done silently, quickly, and without bystander casualties), it's that it was most important to have that on Guts. One more kind of leash. Not necessarily in an extortion kind of way, but to know that in Guts' internal landscape, Griffith has transformed into "someone I would kill a child for," and it's hard to come back from that.

You think he even figured he'd land up having to kill the kid?! Dayum  Shudder But yeah, that's it exactly, well-expressed.

Werel wrote:
(Especially given that I saw this show for the first time when I was like 19, and just beginning to discover the wide world of "deeply charismatic people who will, by their very nature, enchant and ruin you" Uh-oh)

So naturally you accused them of having demonic ambitions and ran? Razz

Werel wrote:
Enail wrote:-uhhhh, she's got a terrible fever from being on her period? Pretty sure that's not how periods work, unless she's got TSS  Uh-oh
Yeahhh. innocent Though I've always given the author the benefit of the doubt and assumed that this was atypical for Casca somehow, or maybe the worst period she'd ever had, or she had TSS, or was otherwise really ill on top of it? Because f'real, cramps can be some incapacitating business, but fevers are not part of the package.

Yeah, I've had cramps bad enough to pass out from before, but fevers (and people having to get nekkid with me to keep me from freezing) are a new one Laughing Presumably it's not Casca's norm, or how would no one have noticed she's too sick to stay on a horse at monthly intervals? I'm not sure what feminine hygiene would be like in a medieval army (other than horrifying Razz) but maybe that could explain something TSS-like? Or possibly the author just doesn't actually know anything about periods except that they suck (YOU'RE RIGHT THERE, AUTHOR-KUN!)

Werel wrote:I think it may also be victim to the tsundere trope a little bit-- any successive moments of tenderness being set up to hit harder by her earlier anger and prickliness--but I agree that using Woman Troubles as a plot device here felt a little cheap. At the same time, I feel like her actions and feelings were pretty believable for who/where/when she is--she's got an amount of internalized misogyny, alongside a struggle to internally AND externally refute that misogyny, that also hit real close to home for 19-year-old me.

Actually, I think this kind of thing might be the root of the tsundere trope rather than the other way round, it's a way for the author to humanize a tough female character (in ways that make sense for the who/when/where of the series and of the author) but still keep her personality showing, and like you say, in a character like this, actually fitting with her internal conflicts - I think the earlier examples like this show more connection to the reality of the character than the tropey comedy/romance type tsundere's developed into.

I can definitely see how it would hit home. Next up in our new series, Exploring Forum-members' Teenage Experiences of Gender Through 90s Anime, you'll have to watch Shoujo Kakumei Utena  Shiny/thrilled

Werel wrote:
Definitely curious about which parts felt most like "she can't do as good because woman;" I haven't read these manga volumes in a few years, and I bet I'd have a different take on it now.

Oh, really just the bit where she got her ass kicked by rando sexist knight because she was busy passing out from horrifying-fever-cramps for a flashing sign of "BECAUSE WOMAN," combined with the fact that she's yet to be shown seriously kicking ass in a major scene, it's not piling on all over the place.
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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:43 pm

Manga vol. 6:

Enail wrote:
You think he even figured he'd land up having to kill the kid?! Dayum  Shudder
Weeeellllll I think he saw it as a distinct possibility (you'll see why maybe Griffith Knows Things), and if nothing else, "someone I killed the king's brother for" is still a pretty heavy leash. Shudder

Enail wrote:
Werel wrote:
(Especially given that I saw this show for the first time when I was like 19, and just beginning to discover the wide world of "deeply charismatic people who will, by their very nature, enchant and ruin you" Uh-oh)

So naturally you accused them of having demonic ambitions and ran? Razz
Yep, spent a short stint in jail for silver bullet and wooden stake-related attempts to not get all ruined up by hubristic superhunks Razz

Enail wrote:I'm not sure what feminine hygiene would be like in a medieval army (other than horrifying Razz) but maybe that could explain something TSS-like?
This is maybe one of the worst paths of thought I've ever wandered down. Thanks. No

Enail wrote:
Oh, really just the bit where she got her ass kicked by rando sexist knight because she was busy passing out from horrifying-fever-cramps for a flashing sign of "BECAUSE WOMAN," combined with the fact that she's yet to be shown seriously kicking ass in a major scene, it's not piling on all over the place.
No spoilers, but bomaye says this gets some better treatment in the second movie. I would also like to see Casca kicking a whole lot more ass and being given more opportunities to demonstrate how she rose all the way up the ranks.

Enail wrote:Next up in our new series, Exploring Forum-members' Teenage Experiences of Gender Through 90s Anime, you'll have to watch Shoujo Kakumei Utena  Shiny/thrilled
CAN THIS PLEASE BE A REAL THREAD PLEASE
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:08 pm

You, uh, know you have the power to start threads, right? Razz
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Re: Berserk

Post by bomaye on Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:50 pm

Werel wrote:
Manga vol. 6:

Enail wrote:
You think he even figured he'd land up having to kill the kid?! Dayum  Shudder
Weeeellllll I think he saw it as a distinct possibility (you'll see why maybe Griffith Knows Things), and if nothing else, "someone I killed the king's brother for" is still a pretty heavy leash. Shudder

Spoiler:

I think y'all forget that Guts doesn't give a shit about the royalty, killing the King's brother was nothing for him silent


Spoiler:

Enail wrote:
Oh, really just the bit where she got her ass kicked by rando sexist knight because she was busy passing out from horrifying-fever-cramps for a flashing sign of "BECAUSE WOMAN," combined with the fact that she's yet to be shown seriously kicking ass in a major scene, it's not piling on all over the place.
No spoilers, but bomaye says this gets some better treatment in the second movie. I would also like to see Casca kicking a whole lot more ass and being given more opportunities to demonstrate how she rose all the way up the ranks.

Spoiler:

Hrmmmmm, I actually think she might have kicked more ass in the anime but it was maybe overall better portrayed in the movies except for a certain scene


Werel wrote:
Spoiler:

Enail wrote:Not loving the whole classic 'woman can't do things because woman, so she gets irrationally violent and hysterical about it' thing. They manage to still give her a feeling of genuineness and dignity, and I like that what Griffith gave her was basically just the freedom to choose, but... as a reader, it's just so tiring and discouraging to be once again taken through the fiction-reader's version of that trope - "what did you expect, for the character you identify with to be genuinely as capable and important as other characters on the same level? Don't be silly, you're only a woman."  Like, it's sympathizing with that feeling of frustration with how the world and gender works, but it's also always been the thing that creates it for me almost more for me than anything in real life does - in the real world, I actually can be a reasonable, capable human being regardless of gender expectations often enough; in fiction, so often that's just pretending.  ...well, that was a rant Wink
I think it may also be victim to the tsundere trope a little bit-- any successive moments of tenderness being set up to hit harder by her earlier anger and prickliness--but I agree that using Woman Troubles as a plot device here felt a little cheap. At the same time, I feel like her actions and feelings were pretty believable for who/where/when she is--she's got an amount of internalized misogyny, alongside a struggle to internally AND externally refute that misogyny, that also hit real close to home for 19-year-old me.

Spoiler:

Man, y'alls are harsh. She's tsundere because she hardcore committed herself to Griffith and his band of stinky boys and there's no way she's going to like the dumbest and stinkiest boy who stole the heart of her Griffith at all b-baka, is their third most capable warrior despite despite any physical limitations from being a normal sized woman, and precisely because she's a woman she's not allowed any emotional responses because then she's what dudes expect which means she has to clamp down on things so hard that someone's bound to be an outlet for them (OH HELLO GATSOO)
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:33 pm

bomaye wrote:
Werel wrote:
Manga vol. 6:

Enail wrote:
You think he even figured he'd land up having to kill the kid?! Dayum  Shudder
Weeeellllll I think he saw it as a distinct possibility (you'll see why maybe Griffith Knows Things), and if nothing else, "someone I killed the king's brother for" is still a pretty heavy leash. Shudder

Spoiler:

I think y'all forget that Guts doesn't give a shit about the royalty, killing the King's brother was nothing for him silent

Spoiler:
I don't think it's killing the king's brother that's to have an effect on Guts, it's assassinating someone, which is a very different thing from killing someone on the battlefield. His face when Griffith asks, that is not an 'sure, it's just like what I do every day," face; his face afterwards, that's not the kind of expression he has after taking down an opponent in a fight, and this is before he gets to having to kill the kid. It's a whole world he would never choose to have any part of on his own.


bomaye wrote:
Spoiler:

Man, y'alls are harsh. She's tsundere because she hardcore committed herself to Griffith and his band of stinky boys and there's no way she's going to like the dumbest and stinkiest boy who stole the heart of her Griffith at all b-baka, is their third most capable warrior despite despite any physical limitations from being a normal sized woman, and precisely because she's a woman she's not allowed any emotional responses because then she's what dudes expect which means she has to clamp down on things so hard that someone's bound to be an outlet for them (OH HELLO GATSOO)

Spoiler:
The problem is that she's said to be their third most capable warrior, but we never really see her doing anything that impressive (ETA: in the manga, at least, it sounds like that's less true in the anime), it's all tell and no show, and it's really common with those kinds of tough tsundere girl characters. It's not I think little of her as a person within the world - by that measure, she's quite something - but I'm disappointed in how she's handled as a character within a story, in the context of many other stories that do similar things. It's not out of line with what I'd expect from a 90s series like this, and I do like her as a character, I'm just also a little bored of the pattern at this point.
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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:51 pm

Spoiler:

bomaye wrote:She's tsundere because she hardcore committed herself to Griffith and his band of stinky boys and there's no way she's going to like the dumbest and stinkiest boy who stole the heart of her Griffith at all b-baka
Baaahahahaha he is the stinkiest boy rofl
Enail wrote: The problem is that she's said to be their third most capable warrior, but we never really see her doing anything that impressive (ETA: in the manga, at least, it sounds like that's less true in the anime), it's all tell and no show, and it's really common with those kinds of tough tsundere girl characters.
Yeah, that's my only complaint. I'd like to see a Hundred Man Casca sequence (oh god I bet that's already some horrible doujin though Disapproving), or at least her picking off soldier after soldier with her scary little sword. Razz I do like how her character is handled in some stuff that you're getting close to (Vol. 9?), though, wonder how you'll find that.

Also, I wonder how much of being like Shrug about Casca in the manga has to do with the absence of her anime voice, which I found added a lot to her humanity for me (way more than Guts or Griffith)? Maybe none at all if you're used to reading vs. watching, but I liked her casting in the show. Wink
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:06 am

Did you watch the anime first, Werel?
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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:20 am

Yup! Wasn't till a few years later that I read the manga. Might explain my irrational bias towards that goofy late-90s animation, but my attachment stands. Grin
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Re: Berserk

Post by bomaye on Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:22 am

There is artistic merit to some of that goofy animation <_<

Casca loses something in the movies with the voice actor change, there is definitely something that voice actress added that isn't there anywhere else
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:41 pm

Manga Vol. 7:
-This first chapter was an interesting one. Casca as narrator is more self-aware and wise than I would have expected, and the backstory scene between her and Griffith in the river was surprising and yet also felt quite true to them both. And Griffith and the knight toy Crying
-the little cartoon elbow to the head and "I bet she would" Laughing It somehow gets across a feeling of things having eased between them, a little more jokey and less resentful
-Nice to see her actually get in a little solid fighting, even if she still lands up with Guts protecting her. It sort of feels like she's impressive enough to have at last earned the talk she's been getting, but she's an impressive regular person rather than a larger-than-life, impossible heroic figure like Guts and Griffith, so it's hard to actually get her skill across sufficiently beside all that. But that status fits well with how she recognizes the situation as well, that envy of Guts' ability to reach Griffith in a way that she can't, it's almost the tragedy of Salieri, being good-to-great beside absolute genius. Character interest doubled, that's a trope that always gets me.  
- Judeau giving away the last of his special healing powder? Dude, don't do that, that's pretty much guaranteeing a tragic death for you!
- This scene perfectly captures that point in night-time, in firelight, when people let down their guard and say real things for a moment, that closeness.
-Guts' little confession got me right in the feels. He and Casca do really well as contrasts to highlight each other's little inner tragedies; having a purpose that binds you to someone else's will, lacking a true purpose and being unbound and adrift.
-"Pathetic" "Back at you"  Okay, these two are kind of adorable Laughing
-Commander, me too! Me too!"  rofl
-Holy Purple Rhino Knights? These theme armies are getting ridiculous! (But I kind of like the horse's rhino armour!)
-What is Griffith getting himself into No
-This shot was pretty badass
-Casca getting her chance to fight that knight dude fair and square -and getting embarrassed at everyone knowing she was on her period  Laughing  And then all her soldiers being all like "ohhhh, her period!"  rofl
-So apparently beneath her tsundere exterior, Casca's actually here for the comic reaction shots  Laughing  I kind of like it.
Good volume. Lots of character moments for all the mains, some good laughs, silly horse armour, and it did a lot to resolve my issues with Casca earlier.
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Re: Berserk

Post by bomaye on Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:28 am

Grin Grin Grin @ your volume 7 thoughts
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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:06 pm

Vol. 7:

Enail wrote:-Nice to see her actually get in a little solid fighting, even if she still lands up with Guts protecting her. It sort of feels like she's impressive enough to have at last earned the talk she's been getting, but she's an impressive regular person rather than a larger-than-life, impossible heroic figure like Guts and Griffith, so it's hard to actually get her skill across sufficiently beside all that. But that status fits well with how she recognizes the situation as well, that envy of Guts' ability to reach Griffith in a way that she can't, it's almost the tragedy of Salieri, being good-to-great beside absolute genius. Character interest doubled, that's a trope that always gets me.  
YESSSS, the Salieri angle is a huge part of why her character hits for me. On top of facing down the internal "can't ever beat a man because woman" message she's had drilled in her whole life, she ends up bound by circumstance to TWO dudes she can't possibly ever beat because they're once-in-a-generation freaks of talent.

There's a moment in the anime, when he's telling Casca to run during the hundred-man fight, where the dialogue is different from the manga for some reason, but one line from the anime really sticks with me (I think bomaye pointed it out too): he tells Casca to "go back to the sheath that protects you. Go back to Griffith." Guts' willingness to risk his neck to ensure that Casca gets another shot at fulfilling her dream of being Griffith's sword, and the degree to which he really gets that dream because, yep, they have complementary inner tragedies, was a mega-Crying for me.  

-Commander, me too! Me too!"  rofl
And her face when he pushes her to Griffith Grin

-Holy Purple Rhino Knights? These theme armies are getting ridiculous! (But I kind of like the horse's rhino armour!)
The ludicrous army themes is one of my favorite running gags in the series Laughing (wait, actually, it's kind of the only running gag in this deeply unhumorous series)

-This shot was pretty badass
You just like it cause he managed to not kill either horse Razz
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Re: Berserk

Post by bomaye on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:33 pm

Werel wrote:
Vol. 7:

There's a moment in the anime, when he's telling Casca to run during the hundred-man fight, where the dialogue is different from the manga for some reason, but one line from the anime really sticks with me (I think bomaye pointed it out too): he tells Casca to "go back to the sheath that protects you. Go back to Griffith." Guts' willingness to risk his neck to ensure that Casca gets another shot at fulfilling her dream of being Griffith's sword, and the degree to which he really gets that dream because, yep, they have complementary inner tragedies, was a mega-Crying for me.

Spoiler:

That's a pretty amazing line to not be in the original material.

I think the movie used a similar line too, so Manga-guy must've canonized it Grin
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Re: Berserk

Post by litterature on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:44 pm

Werel wrote:
Enail wrote:Next up in our new series, Exploring Forum-members' Teenage Experiences of Gender Through 90s Anime, you'll have to watch Shoujo Kakumei Utena  Shiny/thrilled
CAN THIS PLEASE BE A REAL THREAD PLEASE

PLEASE YES PLEASE

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Re: Berserk

Post by Werel on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:46 pm

Enail wrote:You, uh, know you have the power to start threads, right? Razz

Now I'm pointing this at you, litterature Razz

(Seriously, I would love this thread but don't have time to make it today, if you wanna go for it I'm IN)
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Re: Berserk

Post by Enail on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:47 pm

bomaye wrote:
Spoiler:

That's a pretty amazing line to not be in the original material.

I think the movie used a similar line too, so Manga-guy must've canonized it Grin

Spoiler:
There's a similar line in the manga, it's just not exact (and most of that could just be translation choices). Sorry, didn't think to note that.
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