Self-hatred from the other side

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Self-hatred from the other side

Post by Glides on Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:18 pm

As many of you know, I absolutely hate myself. More than anything else in the universe, I spend quite a bit of time reflecting on how sickening I believe my appearance and personality to be, and how if the universe was fair I'd be slowly tortured to death.

However, today's expression of mentally challenged thought is not about self-hatred but being on the receiving end of someone else who has the exact same problem you do, and how this has rocked me to my emotional core.

Context: Somehow, off of a reddit post on a subreddit for suicidal people, I met and hooked up twice with a girl who goes to a pretty big university about 100 miles away from me. She was a virgin and I'd only had one partner before her.

I had thought for a long time that no one could ever possibly hate themselves more than I do, but this girl somehow was able to outdo me in this department without much effort. The kind of vitriol and poison I'm known for only comes out on the internet, but this girl was saying the kind of stuff publicly and out loud that only you guys have ever seen me really express.

"I bet you wish I was an itty bitty tiny thing so you could carry me up the stairs, not a fat old hippo you'd have to move the folds aside to fuck."

"My pussy clearly smells and tastes disgusting, otherwise you'd want to go down on me more" (for context, I went down on her quiet a bit because I liked said taste and smell but I couldn't convince her)

"Clearly I'm just something for you to fuck and forget, I'm just a living sex doll and you fantasize about other women while we're together." *I had gone to the bathroom immediately after hooking up because I had to pee*

"You don't kiss me during, so clearly I must taste like rotten meat or something." *we'd kissed quite a bit, though admittedly she wasn't very good at it*

There's a ton more, but the absolute worst of it dwarfs even the worst of what I've said on these forums.

And I don't want to give the impression that she was a foul and rude girl, because she really wasn't. She was extremely fun in bed when she wasn't insulting herself, was extremely enthusiastic and very vocal about it, was more than willing to reciprocate. She was a great lover and in a lot of ways was everything my ex wasn't.

But what really kept it from going any farther was the almost constant outpouring of self-hatred whenever she'd get set off on a tangent. There's no way to convince her that I do find her desirable (she's quite pretty but also very shy and introverted) or that I enjoy spending time with her outside of the bedroom (she's extremely funny when she's in a good mood). If not for the constant negative talk and constantly going on about how I could do so much better and all this talk of how I'm clearly out of her league and how gracious I am to lower my standards just for her, I would've seriously considered going farther with her.

And she was doing the thing where she'd pretend to like everything you liked because she was so afraid of expressing her own opinion. I cooked her breakfast and the eggs were "orgasmic," my cock was "bigger than a garden hose," my mouth "tasted of ambrosia," it was like a porn parody of a porn parody whenever she tried to say anything nice about me.

Eventually her self-loathing expanded more and more until she convinced herself that it wasn't fair to "hold me back" the way she thinks she has, and all these Victoria's Secret models I can apparently seduce despite looking like Freddy Krueger's asshole (she's better looking than me by a long shot, really).

I'm not upset at her despite everything I've said, disappointed that she cut me off the way she did for the exact same reason I'd cut off girls before. But all of it was like my interactions with women in reverse, and understanding how I'd repulsed so many women. It's sad to say that this has been a giant learning experience for me, that everything you guys have ever said is completely true.

God, I've made more mental progress than I've thought. And I really do hope this girl finds the courage and conviction to stop pushing people away one day, there's someone wonderful underneath the exterior she puts up. I very briefly got to see it and I was shut out for it.

Granted, she came from a religious family (but an atheist now, thank god. Never dating a religious girl again after my ex) and has a history of physical abuse, so she can't be entirely blamed for the way she is. It's fascinating to see how many women I know who have been psychologically repressed from allowing themselves to enjoy sex. She got upset when she was unable to cum not because she wanted to, but because she believed I'd only find her sexy if I saw her cum. I obviously told her all I cared about was her enjoyment and was more than willing to give her as much as she wanted, but she couldn't believe that.

This whole sex thing is much more complicated than I thought. I expected it to be so goddamn difficult, like solving a Rubik's cube, but it's so natural and simple that I can't believe I was worried this entire time. Literally just communicating with your partner and doing what they want is all you need to do.

I dunno, the last couple times we went at it before she left was unbelievable, everything I'd ever hoped sex could be. It was wild and rough and passionate and I literally lost myself in the moment. I don't want that to come off as bragging but sex with my ex was me doing everything and felt very robotic. She starfished her way through the whole thing. This girl was moving with me and very active and it felt very intimate and wonderful. And it's a real shame that I probably won't be able to do that again, with that girl.

I don't know if I'll have any more sex partners. I hope more women will find me attractive. I'm very late to this but I still want to be the best possible lover I can be.

For the first time in my life, I've finally made progress.

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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by Enail on Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:49 pm

Great to see you not only making progress, but acknowledging it, and also having compassion for her problems.
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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by reboot on Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:56 pm

You know, Glides, this is the first time I have seen you make a post that was not entirely self centered. In addition, you showed compassion for someone else. You have made much more progress than you realize.

I'm sorry your friend had so much self hate. It is so hard deal with when you want to shake them and yell, "You are fucking awesome!!! Why do you not believe me!!!" Hopefully one day she will learn to appreciate herself as much as you do. And you will learn to appreciate yourself as much as she did you
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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by Glides on Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:17 pm

Brief expansion on this: it might be subjective but it seems to hurt worse now being single knowing that I've had more than one sexual partner (though this probably isn't true judging by how upset I was when I was a virgin past his prime who lost his virginity only by lying between his teeth).

But regardless I met both partners without meaning to and I'm not a charismatic or attractive enough guy, even with exercise and improved diet (new wrinkle over the past several months, I've been increasingly losing my hair due to stress and will probably be completely bald within a couple years). At my physical best (well not like ripped and buff or anything but not fat), I still have a profoundly hideous face. No more acne or pimples or blackheads and I try to get enough sleep but it's the goddamn Ukrainian peasant blood in me that makes it look like an albino gorilla or something. Everything is too big, it's like someone got stoned and started fucking with the character customization in Skyrim.

It's not like I regularly creep out girls or that women are repulsed by my presence or anything like that. I don't have nearly as much difficulty talking to strangers as I used to, talking to a lot more girls than before. Not even nearly as shy as before. I keep trying to figure out what's still so goddamn unattractive about me and I really think it's due to me being an unbelievably boring person. There's been plenty of discussions on the site about what women find attractive and how the traditional image of some bad boy rockstar type is more than a little unrealistic (it can be true, but not nearly as often as I previously thought).

On the other hand I no longer go through life viewing every attractive woman I meet as an opportunity to prove that I deserve to be alive and that's helped considerably with interacting with them. There's quite a few girls who friendzoned me, I got really mad about it for a bit, and after getting to know them better realized we were inherently incompatible anyway, even though they're quite wonderful people. There isn't a single human being I'm genuinely attracted to right now, beyond the girls I know who I'd go to bed with if I ever got an offer.

So that's the conundrum I'm in: I know relationships and sex won't fix anything, I've tried both and neither really helped. Sex was fun but not the life-altering experience I thought it would be. Yet a small part of myself is still convinced that if I find the right girl, that'll somehow fix itself, which I know is irrational.

In the end I must conclude that nothing or nobody will ever satisfy me. When I was a virgin I wanted to sleep with one girl, when I slept with one I wanted two, and now that I've had two I want more. More more more, just women being used to satisfy my vices and it's not very fair to either of them. I know in my core that I am a deeply selfish and narcissistic human being, that I'm as close to pure evil that I know, but I do want to be good and I don't want to be like that anymore.

The vast majority of people seem to bore me lately. People I'm introduced to bore the hell out me. Some creepy guy who started talking to me in a dingy bar in a town I will not name and asked if I could ask my friend's girlfriend and her friend if they'd fuck him. He bored me. All these people in bands who sound identical bore me. The music video I could be working on, the band it's for is boring as hell. It all sounds the same. It all looks the same. We're all people wandering through our lives not really sure what the hell we're doing, finding comfort in our vices. I'm no different. I'm sure everyone is aware of this. I deluded myself for a while into thinking I was the only one questioning the state of things and wondering what had to change but now I know everyone is like this, I am not special, I am not unique, there isn't a single thing about me that's original.

We're all made of the same stardust and apparently that's supposed to be inspiring. We're all stars, they say. But there's hundreds of billions of stars. Nothing is special. No one is special. Nothing stands out, when this earth blinks out everything we've created will blink out with it. We will not make it off this planet. Voyager will be the only thing left of humanity and that'll never be found by anyone. I want to run up onto a stage and yell out "WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ALL PRETENDING TO BE HAPPY?! WHO THE FUCK CARES?! WE ARE ALL WORTHLESS AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AND NOTHING WE DO WILL CHANGE ANYTHING! WE ARE THE LOWEST FORM OF LIFE!"

But then I'd just get cheers and applause for being a "daring performance artist." I'll write that into a movie or something. I've sent long diatribes about and depression to people I barely know, only to get that response. My constant talk of self hatred and worthlessness only has people saying I'm a master of "ironic humor." I mock everything about myself now publicly. I mock my lack of a sex life, I mock the size of my penis, I mock my receding hairline and my scars and my Ukrainian peasant face, I mock being the worst student in my school, I mock picking one of the most useless degree programs, I mock my complete lack of talent and ability. As a kid this would incite people to bully me, but now the emotion and inflection has gone out of my voice so everything I say sounds like a joke. People tell me how fucking funny I apparently am, and I can tell they're not laughing at me. They don't think I'm actually telling the truth. I'm popular again, my social life is better than ever, and all I'm doing is telling the truth. It's apparently in to be depressed, it's in to want to die, I've heard people wishing they could have depression and anxiety. I've heard people telling me that they wish they were abused so they'd have something to be victimized about, that they wanted to attempt suicide so they could get attention.

And meanwhile the people I know who have been abused and have tried to end their own lives who aren't me just quietly laugh but something in their eyes die. The thing my former FWB said that bothered me the most was that she wished men would catcall and sexually harass her so she could feel desired. Meanwhile the dozens of women I know who have been violently raped still have to live with that trauma.

The only friends I have now are the few people who see through the jokes and the satire to realize that I have spent my entire existence in a great deal of pain, that I don't remember a point where I wasn't in pain of some kind. When anything good happens to me, i get ashamed because I know I don't deserve it. Two potential relationships fell to pieces because I couldn't be intimate without having a panic attack. I still can't. My dick barely works most of the time, it's the only reason I focus on my partner so much. My entire body is slowly breaking down and nobody but me seems to notice that I'm dying. I feel like I'm dying, despite constantly checking and learning that I'm in perfect health aside from having the genetics of a Ukrainian peasant.

Blood pressure is fine. I'm not overweight. I eat better than I ever have, I exercise more than I ever have, I sleep better than I ever have, my grades are improving. Two of my films were shown in my school's student showcase last week and I didn't know until yesterday.

Not good enough. Not enough. Not satisfied. Nothing can satisfy me. I could have a fourteen inch dick and bronze skin and muscles like a greek god and thousands of sex partners and more money than i could know what to do with and I'd still be miserable.

"If you ever need to talk, I'm here. I know exactly what you're going through." Have heard that after my most recent depressive episode. Two nights ago I drove again on the wrong side of a one-way street and I'm not sure if I did it on purpose or not. I don't remember. My alcohol and drug intake is minimal and yet my memory is so bad I can't remember. A week ago I attempted to wander the streets of another town, hoping someone would kill me, and was stopped. I can't remember if I did this on purpose.

My therapist is convinced I've made major progress. She keeps telling me how wonderfully I'm doing. I don't lie to her about anything, I tell her how scared I am all the time and how I'll never amount to anything and what a goddamn chore living is. She's so optimistic about me, she keeps telling me how I'm about to become the person I was always meant to be and I realize that nothing will ever truly convince her otherwise. I'm almost failing out of school in a job that pays shit, how the fuck am I doing better? I've lived with my parents since May, I had a car accident that should've killed me. If I'd somehow made it like two or three feet farther I would've been crushed and T-boned. The other driver was a snotty bitch, she threatened to sue me, tried to get me arrested. I wish she was my murderer. It would've taken away all talk of how selfish I am. She would've been a murderer, I wish she killed me. The front of my car was torn entirely off, the engine was hanging out of the fucking car. I walked away from that wreck with a concussion and minor whiplash and that was it. No broken bones, no crushed skull, nothing I didn't deserve.

"Don't make too many bad choices." Motherfucker, I live for bad choices. I'm not doing the drugs I do for my health. I'm not drinking the amount I'm drinking for fun. I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's kind of a minor miracle I drink and drug as infrequently as I do.

I don't know what to do. There's nothing left to do. Work until i die. I'm not marrying or having kids, no need to worry about hurting those imaginary people. I am too fucked in the head to have children. I'd be a horrible father. I would never have the patience and care children need. I'm too young and too broken for kids. I'm too broken for a wife or a girlfriend. I have no value, I do not have worth, I have no skills or abilities because I wanted to be an artist, because I was arrogant enough to think that I had something to say, that I could offer the world something. The reality is I have nothing to offer.

Ban me motherfuckers.

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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by BasedBuzzed on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:07 pm

I-live-on-autopilot-and-I'm-too-jaded-to-take-anyone-seriously is also one of the settings of depression. I won't bore you with the "depression is a long road, but it becomes liveable" because I'm sure you've browsed enough of those stories, just take some solace in the fact that this setting actually makes for some pretty good writing.

Distract yourself in ways that don't lead to "wow, I could use this as an opportunity to self-punish", do all the good habits out of pure spite towards the people who said it would improve your lot (can't go wrong with driving up the "look, I've got this and that in order and I'm still not happy" road) and who knows, maybe it'll pass. There's never a final epiphany.

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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by waxingjaney on Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:52 pm

Glides wrote:My entire body is slowly breaking down and nobody but me seems to notice that I'm dying...
My alcohol and drug intake is minimal and yet my memory is so bad I can't remember.

I walked away from that wreck with a concussion and minor whiplash and that was it.

These may be related conditions.
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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by Glides on Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:02 pm

waxingjaney wrote:
Glides wrote:My entire body is slowly breaking down and nobody but me seems to notice that I'm dying...
My alcohol and drug intake is minimal and yet my memory is so bad I can't remember.

I walked away from that wreck with a concussion and minor whiplash and that was it.

These may be related conditions.

Why do you say that?

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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by waxingjaney on Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:43 am

You are describing typical symptoms of brain and general body trauma. It can sometimes take months or more to fully recover (and with brain trauma, sometimes you never do).
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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by Glides on Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:05 am

waxingjaney wrote:You are describing typical symptoms of brain and general body trauma. It can sometimes take months or more to fully recover (and with brain trauma, sometimes you never do).

So essentially the wreck took all of my previous symptoms and made them worse.

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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:07 am

You might want to check in with a doctor about that.
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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by Glides on Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:32 am

Enail wrote:You might want to check in with a doctor about that.

My therapist has already mentioned something like this. I dunno what other kind of doctor I could possibly go to about this.

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Re: Self-hatred from the other side

Post by reboot on Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:42 am

Glides wrote:
Enail wrote:You might want to check in with a doctor about that.

My therapist has already mentioned something like this. I dunno what other kind of doctor I could possibly go to about this.

Your primary care doctor can refer you to a neurologist if brain injury is suspected. Other specialists if other organs are the issue
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