Toxic masculinity

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Toxic masculinity

Post by reboot on Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:41 am

This is an interesting opinion piece aboutwhy toxic masculinity is playing such a role in this election
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Re: Toxic masculinity

Post by K-J on Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:21 pm

That's a pretty good read.
It feels to me that the best parts are those that tie in with politics, that it's more about wilfully ignoring what the world looks like rather than "living in the real world".
I wouldn't know exactly because I'm not completely into american politics to say for sure.

I don't however agree that all despair deaths line up with this. That is a bloody disrespectful thing to imply.
Some people half-knowingly choose not to look after themselves and perish for lots of different reasons, and it's not all about crisis due to not being able to live up to toxic masculinity, not being able to talk about emotions or whatever.

There's men that are fully aware of having been privileged but now their industry jobs are gone, it's too late to get back in there and even if they could, they frankly don't feel it's worth it for personal sake.
They may deteriorate, decide not to pick up any new responsibilities, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are assholes, support Trump, contribute to inequality or don't see the need for times to change in general.
They'd vote for Clinton obviously, but for their own sake they have nothing to gain regardless who will take office.

If they aren't resisting, actively adding to crap, one should respect their choice to perish with dignity. It'd be bloody awful to stand at a wake of someone like this and snottily don a post mortem: This happened because Earl here was so caught up in machismo and toxic masculinity, and therefore was part of the problem until he died. We can grieve him a little bit but mostly we should just feel offended.

I'm not personally affected as much that I intend to drink and eat junk food 'til I drop, though I can understand some who take that route. Nor do I want to contribute to sexism, racism, have wanton privileges etx.
I'll work, lend a hand here and there, look after myself somewhat, but I do consider myself so damaged that I should abstain from having kids at least, but that's my call and my call only. Others shouldn't moralise over things like that which doesn't concern them.

Less fucked people can rear a new generation of better people. That sounds awesome actually.


Last edited by K-J on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Toxic masculinity

Post by BasedBuzzed on Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:44 pm

The above post reminds me of this one: http://fredrikdeboer.com/2016/04/05/i-am-not-yours-to-care-for/

Not all passages, but especially the ones about being seen as a ticking timebomb are interesting, because it explains so much of the resentment that often comes up in response to this strain of toxic masculinity articles: these men are not so emotionally stumped that they can't detect false compassion.

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Re: Toxic masculinity

Post by K-J on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:09 pm

BasedBuzzed wrote:The above post reminds me of this one: (link)

Saved!
That was a gem of a text. A bit messy in parts but with thoughts I haven't seen expressed before.
Thanks for showing, and I wish that one would spread as it's a discussion worth having.

Another point of interest is that this also negates the MRM/MGTOW-whining of "When are you feminist bitches going to care about men living badly, huh, HUH?" We're still talking about men who didn't ask for help, or to be diagnosed from a distance, and this is just another example.

Unless people don't add to shit, don't use them to make political points and respect their damn choices!

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Re: Toxic masculinity

Post by Werel on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:26 pm

I liked that article a lot, BasedBuzzed. Hadn't heard that argument made so clearly and at such length before, but I'm glad to have it rattling around in my head, especially in teaching contexts.

K-J wrote:I don't however agree that all despair deaths line up with this. That is a bloody disrespectful thing to imply.
Yeah, I also cringed at the author of the NYTimes article making that slippery attempt to equate white male despair deaths and toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity surely takes its toll on men in a variety of ways, and there probably aren't any men who aren't somehow affected by it, but there are a hell of a lot of reasons to despair (to death) other than discomfort with shifting gender dynamics. I agree that that's insanely disrespectful to every man who's struggled with suicide and/or the slow suicides (drug abuse, alcoholism, binge eating, etc.) Those are called "life can be fucking painful and some coping mechanisms will kill you," not "bro wasn't woke enough to stay alive."
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Re: Toxic masculinity

Post by AndytheBro on Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:41 pm

A pretty good read, really digs into why toxic masculinity is awful. I could definitely relate to the whole "stepfather sobbing alone in his room bit", except with my actual father. I pretty much have to do the same thing though, cause the last thing I need is family hounding me with "What's wrong?" when the things that are wrong are them. And the last thing I want is my father to see my cry. If he tells me "Men don't cry" one more time, in the heat of the moment I might do something drastic enough to end up kicked out of the house, lol.
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