Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by The Wisp on Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:36 pm

I think this is gendered, though I'm not positive, but being able to see the doctor for non-urgent mild to medium medical issues without feeling weak or getting pangs of gulit.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Conreezy on Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:52 pm

The Wisp wrote:I think this is gendered, though I'm not positive, but being able to see the doctor for non-urgent mild to medium medical issues without feeling weak or getting pangs of gulit.

FYI If you go to the ER for non-urgent mild symptoms, it doesn't matter what gender you are.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by The Wisp on Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:57 pm

Conreezy wrote:
FYI If you go to the ER for non-urgent mild symptoms, it doesn't matter what gender you are.

We hate you equally. Razz

I meant a GP, not the ER, but I could see why that would be frustrating (I have done that in the past, but in my defense I was going through a panic-disorder phase related to my health, so I consider them more psychiatric than physical issues in hindsight, even if I wasn't sent to a psych ward or anything).
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by kath on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:46 pm

I think it also depends on the healthcare system where you are, in one of those awesome layered things. If going to the doctor is expensive, it's "manly" to avoid it. If going to the doctor is free, it's an easier decision to make.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Wondering on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:59 pm

I think this fits best in this thread. I find it enraging.

http://shannonhale.tumblr.com/post/112152808785/no-boys-allowed-school-visits-as-a-woman-writer

A woman author who has female protagonists. In more than one school she's given talks at, only girls have been allowed by the school to go to the talk. The boys were expected to stay in class.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by reboot on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:08 pm

Wondering wrote:I think this fits best in this thread. I find it enraging.

http://shannonhale.tumblr.com/post/112152808785/no-boys-allowed-school-visits-as-a-woman-writer

A woman author who has female protagonists. In more than one school she's given talks at, only girls have been allowed by the school to go to the talk. The boys were expected to stay in class.

Wah???? That makes no sense at all. So boys are not allowed to hear about books because the characters are female and the author is a woman? That is infuriating.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Wondering on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:19 pm

In her post, that author makes the connection to rape culture and lack of empathy toward women that we often talk about here as a result of boys not consuming media about girls and women.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by The Wisp on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:30 pm

I'm shocked by that  (I certainly remember female authors speaking at my elementary school to the whole school).

Sort of related: when I was in elementary and middle school, one thing that puzzles me and annoys me in hindsight is that the books we had to read with male protagonists often involved adventure, and sometimes fantasy settings, but the books we had to read with female protagonists were often more realistic slice-of-life stories. Booooring. I just assumed for much of my childhood that if a book had a female protagonist it would inherently be slice of life and dull. Actually, now that I think back on it, the same was true for the books with nonwhite protagonists, they were realistic and slice-of-life. White male characters have fun and exciting stories, characters who aren't white and/or men sit around and do boring day-to-day stuff. Took me a long time to get over that bias and give stories with female protagonists a fair shake.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by PintsizeBro on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:48 pm

Wow, that is... really appalling. And then studio execs have the gall to say that boys don't want to read or watch stories about female characters! Maybe they would if you would just give them the chance.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Enail on Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:00 pm

TheWisp, it was probably a problem with the books themselves, too! It's only fairly recently that we've started having a good selection of kids' sci fi/fantasy/adventure books with female protagonists and ones with non-white protagonists. When I was a kid, almost everything I liked starred boys only, usually white, and maybe 1 girl (white) and 1 boy of colour in a team book.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by eselle28 on Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:30 pm

The Wisp wrote:
Sort of related: when I was in elementary and middle school, one thing that puzzles me and annoys me in hindsight is that the books we had to read with male protagonists often involved adventure, and sometimes fantasy settings, but the books we had to read with female protagonists were often more realistic slice-of-life stories. Booooring. I just assumed for much of my childhood that if a book had a female protagonist it would inherently be slice of life and dull. Actually, now that I think back on it, the same was true for the books with nonwhite protagonists, they were realistic and slice-of-life. White male characters have fun and exciting stories, characters who aren't white and/or men sit around and do boring day-to-day stuff. Took me a long time to get over that bias and give stories with female protagonists a fair shake.

Enail wrote:TheWisp, it was probably a problem with the books themselves, too! It's only fairly recently that we've started having a good selection of kids' sci fi/fantasy/adventure books with female protagonists and ones with non-white protagonists. When I was a kid, almost everything I liked starred boys only, usually white, and maybe 1 girl (white) and 1 boy of colour in a team book.

Yeah, I'm thinking it might have been a problem with the books. With an older, less diverse book selection, I can see a school trying to assign students a mix of genres and also provide some diversity in terms of protagonists and either not noticing or not being able to fix the problem of all of the books about women and people of color being in the same genre. I can't imagine it helped either the kids who preferred adventure stories or the ones who liked the slice of life stories, since in either case you'd end up with kids either never seeing themselves in stories they liked or never seeing anyone not like them in stories they liked.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by JP McBride on Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:55 pm

After the presentation, I signed books for the students who had pre-ordered my books (all girls), but one 3rd grade boy hung around.

"Did you want to ask her a question?" a teacher asked.

"Yes," he said nervously, "but not now. I’ll wait till everyone is gone."

Once the other students were gone, three adults still remained. He was still clearly uncomfortable that we weren’t alone but his question was also clearly important to him. So he leaned forward and whispered in my ear, “Do you have a copy of the black princess book?”

It broke my heart that he felt he had to whisper the question.

I wonder if the adults had left and the students remained, would he still needed to whipser?

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by eselle28 on Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:13 pm

JP McBride wrote:
After the presentation, I signed books for the students who had pre-ordered my books (all girls), but one 3rd grade boy hung around.

"Did you want to ask her a question?" a teacher asked.

"Yes," he said nervously, "but not now. I’ll wait till everyone is gone."

Once the other students were gone, three adults still remained. He was still clearly uncomfortable that we weren’t alone but his question was also clearly important to him. So he leaned forward and whispered in my ear, “Do you have a copy of the black princess book?”

It broke my heart that he felt he had to whisper the question.

I wonder if the adults had left and the students remained, would he still needed to whipser?
\

I'm a little cynical, but I'd say it would depend a lot on the specific third-grader, the specific girls, and the specific adults. Kids might be a little more easygoing about this than when I was a child, but that is old enough for them to be enforcing gender roles on each other, and sometimes they're pretty harsh about it.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Wondering on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:18 pm

eselle28 wrote:
The Wisp wrote:
Sort of related: when I was in elementary and middle school, one thing that puzzles me and annoys me in hindsight is that the books we had to read with male protagonists often involved adventure, and sometimes fantasy settings, but the books we had to read with female protagonists were often more realistic slice-of-life stories. Booooring. I just assumed for much of my childhood that if a book had a female protagonist it would inherently be slice of life and dull. Actually, now that I think back on it, the same was true for the books with nonwhite protagonists, they were realistic and slice-of-life. White male characters have fun and exciting stories, characters who aren't white and/or men sit around and do boring day-to-day stuff. Took me a long time to get over that bias and give stories with female protagonists a fair shake.

Enail wrote:TheWisp, it was probably a problem with the books themselves, too! It's only fairly recently that we've started having a good selection of kids' sci fi/fantasy/adventure books with female protagonists and ones with non-white protagonists. When I was a kid, almost everything I liked starred boys only, usually white, and maybe 1 girl (white) and 1 boy of colour in a team book.

Yeah, I'm thinking it might have been a problem with the books. With an older, less diverse book selection, I can see a school trying to assign students a mix of genres and also provide some diversity in terms of protagonists and either not noticing or not being able to fix the problem of all of the books about women and people of color being in the same genre. I can't imagine it helped either the kids who preferred adventure stories or the ones who liked the slice of life stories, since in either case you'd end up with kids either never seeing themselves in stories they liked or never seeing anyone not like them in stories they liked.

I will be forever grateful that the required summer reading when I was a frosh in high school, more than 20 years ago, was A Wizard of Earthsea (by a woman about a man) and The Blue Sword (by a woman about a woman), both fantasies.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by InkAndComb on Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:51 am

I am interested in home repair, and have been for years, but haven't been able to find much resources on how to do such (classes, mentor, etc).

My SO has been allowed to freely tamper with many things (and subsequently broken many things).  I've tampered with limited amount (and usually end up fixing things).  The reactions are astounding; SO breaks something, at least he tries.  I fix something, ohmygosh you messed with the plumbing!

Also, trying to sign up for courses; I continously get informed there will be males in the class, am I comfortable with this, have I thought about taking a cooking course.  I realize Social Work has a strong gender bias in the classroom, but nobody talked to me about the guys being in the class when I took Stats, why bring it up for learning how to drywall? :I
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by reboot on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:24 pm

InkAndComb wrote:I am interested in home repair, and have been for years, but haven't been able to find much resources on how to do such (classes, mentor, etc).

My SO has been allowed to freely tamper with many things (and subsequently broken many things).  I've tampered with limited amount (and usually end up fixing things).  The reactions are astounding; SO breaks something, at least he tries.  I fix something, ohmygosh you messed with the plumbing!

Also, trying to sign up for courses; I continously get informed there will be males in the class, am I comfortable with this, have I thought about taking a cooking course.  I realize Social Work has a strong gender bias in the classroom, but nobody talked to me about the guys being in the class when I took Stats, why bring it up for learning how to drywall? :I


Ugh! My mechanic is a woman and bumped into the same thing during her training. Now tht she has her own shop she teaches classes/let's classes use her space for women targeted classes because of this attitude.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:30 pm

InkAndComb wrote:I am interested in home repair, and have been for years, but haven't been able to find much resources on how to do such (classes, mentor, etc).

My SO has been allowed to freely tamper with many things (and subsequently broken many things).  I've tampered with limited amount (and usually end up fixing things).  The reactions are astounding; SO breaks something, at least he tries.  I fix something, ohmygosh you messed with the plumbing!

Also, trying to sign up for courses; I continously get informed there will be males in the class, am I comfortable with this, have I thought about taking a cooking course.  I realize Social Work has a strong gender bias in the classroom, but nobody talked to me about the guys being in the class when I took Stats, why bring it up for learning how to drywall? :I

When I signed my 9-year-old son up for an after school yoga class he wanted to do, his teacher pulled me aside after the first class to tell me that he was the only boy in the class, and so we could transfer him to something else if we wanted. I was kind of floored. "Is he a problem?" I asked. "No, not at all!" she said. I declined to transfer him, and he's loving his sun salutations or whatever the heck they're doing.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by nearly_takuan on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:43 pm

These public transit trains have "priority seating areas" that are closest to the doors and have the most space; when a senior citizen or disabled person comes on board, younger more able-bodied people are supposed to get out of the way for them.

I've only rarely seen people neglect to immediately offer fifty-plus year old women those seats, and generally that was because they were too engrossed in whatever mobile electronics they were playing with. But I've pretty frequently seen elderly and cane-using men forced to stand when the priority seats were already occupied by able-bodied people. (Wheelchairs and walkers, fortunately, are persuasive regardless of gender.)
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Werel on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:52 pm

nearly_takuan wrote:
I've only rarely seen people neglect to immediately offer fifty-plus year old women those seats, and generally that was because they were too engrossed in whatever mobile electronics they were playing with. But I've pretty frequently seen elderly and cane-using men forced to stand when the priority seats were already occupied by able-bodied people. (Wheelchairs and walkers, fortunately, are persuasive regardless of gender.)

This bothers me too, and I usually will offer my seat to elderly men; in about half those cases, they will take the seat. In the other half, they will refuse. In about half of those cases, there is some expression of dismay or even offense at a woman offering a man her seat ("I'm not that old!"/"I don't need your seat, little lady"/scoffing/general noises of displeasure). I wonder if others have encountered this sort of masculinity/fitness self-defense impulse in men who are clearly physically infirm but pissed when others act as if they are infirm? (Not that those 25% of reactions excuse failing to offer my seat in the future; I still offer, and am just not surprised/offended if the elderly man is grumpy at me.)
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by nearly_takuan on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:55 pm

That's fair, and probably counts as an additional gendered experience: generally elders are polite when I offer them my seat regardless of their gender or physical condition.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Wondering on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:57 pm

I've had similar experiences with older men refusing to take my seat or the seat of other women when offered.

I haven't had them be grumpy, though. It seemed more to me that they were of a generation of holding the door for women or giving up their seats for women or escorting women places, and it just totally messed with their worldview and made them feel like they were behaving inappropriately.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Enail on Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:07 pm

If it makes you feel any better (?), I can assure you that people are often oblivious/assholes to people of all genders in need of seats. :\
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by nearly_takuan on Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:15 pm

Yep, almost every time a train gets decommissioned mid-ride and they ask everyone to get off and board the next train, there's at least one asshole who didn't hear and didn't see the mass exodus because he was staring at his phone and wearing noise-canceling headphones. Usually male. Usually doesn't apologize. It still seems to me that there's a bit of a gender imbalance in how elders are treated when people do notice them, but I'm not saying this to explain why sea lions have such hard lives. Razz

Doesn't really affect me directly, anyway. Doubt we'll even have trains like these in fifty years. I plan to stop being such a regular user of them within the next month, too.
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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by PintsizeBro on Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:40 am

Resurrecting this thread with a new one: buying yogurt. Seriously, who decided that fermented milk was "female?" The yogurts that are clearly trying to buck the trend aren't much better... Dannon's Oikos line of Greek yogurt proudly proclaims that it's "the official yogurt of the NFL." At least it's not Powerful Yogurt with their awful bull logo... seriously, a bull to advertise a dairy product? That's pretty stomach-churning when you stop and think about it for a minute.

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

Post by Wondering on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:01 pm

Baby clothing design. Most baby shirts have overlapping (or envelope) necklines. This is to allow you to spread the collar wide and take the shirt off downward over the arms and legs instead of the head should a diaper mishap occur.

However, some shirts have snaps on the neckline instead. Boy shirts have snaps on the side of the collar extending over the shoulder. Easy to get to when dressing and undressing, no issue for the baby. But girl shirts have snaps down the back. Incredibly difficult to get to, especially for a young baby who can't sit up or even roll over yet, and uncomfortable for the baby who is still on her back and has to lie on the snaps. Snaps down the back are coded female or something, I guess?

Women's clothes: Inconvenient and uncomfortable since birth!

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Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

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