Stalker problems

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:26 pm

Dear police officers who came to my door to interview me after the deranged man who I went on a couple dates with months ago made serious threats again and I was forced to call 911--thanks for telling me it was my fault because I met him through online dating. I really really appreciated the victim-blaming you were able to provide me in that moment of crisis, it made me feel so much better about myself. Yes, OKCupid is suuuuuuuch a sketchy site and obviously I should have known what I was asking for by meeting anyone through there. The fact that this man became convinced that I was going to be his girlfriend and then refused to leave me alone is totally the fault of me having met him online, I know. Super great you triangulated his phone and sent a team out after him and he's now in a place where he can't hurt me, at least temporarily, even better that you reminded me that I brought this on myself. So very glad for the shaming you provide alongside your services of keeping us safe. Much appreciated.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Werel on Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:59 pm

Hey guess what it's not your fault at all.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Enail on Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:24 pm

Wowww, awfulness upon awfulness! Hope you have no further trouble from either stalker assholes or shamey assholes.
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by reboot on Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:22 am

Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
Fuck them and their victim blaming selves. As if a man you met in person could not have done the same thing!
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:10 pm

Aw no, Prajna. No

That's terrible. I'm really sorry to hear that. There, there You did nothing wrong, remember that. Here's hoping you don't get hassled by creep stalkers or unnecessary victim blaming from 5-0. Disapproving

Also, lol Werel i have the perfect song for you.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:50 pm

Prajnaparamita wrote:Dear police officers who came to my door to interview me after the deranged man who I went on a couple dates with months ago made serious threats again and I was forced to call 911--thanks for telling me it was my fault because I met him through online dating. I really really appreciated the victim-blaming you were able to provide me in that moment of crisis, it made me feel so much better about myself. Yes, OKCupid is suuuuuuuch a sketchy site and obviously I should have known what I was asking for by meeting anyone through there. The fact that this man became convinced that I was going to be his girlfriend and then refused to leave me alone is totally the fault of me having met him online, I know. Super great you triangulated his phone and sent a team out after him and he's now in a place where he can't hurt me, at least temporarily, even better that you reminded me that I brought this on myself. So very glad for the shaming you provide alongside your services of keeping us safe. Much appreciated.

Mr. Deranged has started calling me from new unknown numbers, as I've long since blocked his phone. Guys, he knows where I live. I'm getting scared.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Wondering on Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:55 pm

Have you looked into getting a court order? Depending on where you live, you may have options of what kinds depending on severity. Here, you can get anti-harassment, no-contact, or restraining orders. I got a no-contact order against my evil ex.

And document EVERYTHING. As it happens.

Fortunately, I had a very sympathetic male cop. But regardless, since you've already had a police report, you can use that to help establish your case.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Enail on Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:15 pm

Oh jeez, Prajna, that sounds scary. If you're really worried he'd show up at your place, could you have a friend stay or go stay with someone for a few days? Jedi hugs for you and jedi barbed wire for him.
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Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:59 pm

I'm afraid I don't have any records of anything, unfortunately. I know that was what I was supposed to do, but... Every time he'd contact me, it would make me so anxious that I'd immediately delete the texts or messages so I wouldn't have to see them anymore. So I can't get a restraining order, I don't have anything to show the courts. Also I can't make heads or tails of what Massachusetts actually offers, I tried researching it online but I can't tell if we actually have no-contact orders or if it's just restraining orders or even what I would need to do. Like can I access the police reports of all the threats of suicide he's been making to me that I've been reporting? I just feel so overwhelmed and don't know what to do or even where to start.

Hey Enail do you think you could actually spin this off into another thread? I rather suspect this is something I'm going to need support/help around, because it doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Wondering on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:14 am

Start documenting now. Also, your cell phone company may have records of the numbers that texted you even if you removed them from your phone. That's evidence.

Are you a student? If so, your school may have a legal advice department for students. That's actually what I used. The ordinary police department front desk (like where you'd get car accident report forms) should be able to give you paperwork on restraining-style orders, too. You can take any and all and not have to fill them out.

Super duper hugs, Prajna.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by reboot on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:27 am

Make a timeline of what happened with dates and times (or approximate dates and times) and a brief narrative of what happened from initial OKC messages to today. It is not quite as good as original messages, but can be helpful for getting a restraining order. Add any new contacts and, if possible, save any new messages. If you have the money, set up a security system with cameras so you can record if he comes to your door. Also, there should be a way to notify the school, in case he follows you on campus, and give them his name and picture. I would ask an advisor who to talk to. It is probably campus security, but all schools are different.

Hugs and so sorry you have to deal with this
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 am

Hey guys, I'm not a student actually so student legal services/campus security aren't options for help or support. How do I contact my cell phone service to get record of his texts? And is there any way I could use my record of contact with the police to be part of my record? Also, the first time he sent me threats of suicide I contacted my local crisis hotline and a person there sent out the police for a wellness check, can I get any record from them or is that covered by HIPAA? I think that maybe I could try to make a record informally of the stuff in the past, but I just feel so anxious having to think about him and go through all that stuff I'm not sure how to hold myself accountable for it. Also I've deleted so much of it, I'm really not sure how much I could recover.

Also reboot I could really use your perspective on this--I often feel like it isn't really stalking, because there will be days, weeks and sometimes even months between attempts to contact me. And it's not harassment, usually it's just apologies, over and over again. Maybe he's just really hurting and wants to make it right? That night that he called me, I could hear that he was in tears--I know he's not faking that. I mean yeah, I did tell him never to contact me again, but he's also not threatening me either, maybe he just wants to make it right and doesn't know how and I'm making this into too big a deal?

...Nevermind he tried to contact me again while I was writing this out.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Enail on Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:48 pm

It's still stalking even if they're really sorry and are hurting. A lot of the shitty, scary, unacceptable things people do are based in genuine feelings - and they use those feelings to justify behaving in ways that are really, really harmful and not okay. He knows exactly how he could make this right, because you've told him: leave you alone and never contact you again. But instead he's choosing to prioritize his desire for contact with you over your wishes and your well-being.

You are not making too big a deal of this. You are not being too mean. You're doing the right thing to take this seriously.
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:14 pm

Enail wrote:It's still stalking even if they're really sorry and are hurting. A lot of the shitty, scary, unacceptable things people do are based in genuine feelings - and they use those feelings to justify behaving in ways that are really, really harmful and not okay. He knows exactly how he could make this right, because you've told him: leave you alone and never contact you again. But instead he's choosing to prioritize his desire for contact with you over your wishes and your well-being.

Thank you Enail it means a lot to hear this. I guess it's hard not to second guess myself because I'm rereading The Gift of Fear and other resources on stalking and partner violence and I'm not getting any threats, other than him talking about his desire or intention to kill himself. I mean, this is part of the latest message he sent me, and most of them read pretty much like this:
"I understand why you're so angry with me. I used you and manipulated you and took advantage of you in ways I never should have. I took everything you did for me for granted and walked all over you. I don't expect you to forgive me for that, or to even respond, but what I wanted to say is that I was sorry all the same. I wasn't thinking about you before and now that I am the guilt of what I've done to you is tearing me apart."
And then he usually says something about how he'll never contact me again and this is for the best and I shouldn't even bother replying to him. And that's why this has gone on so long, because his apologies are always so beautifully worded and he takes full responsibility for his actions and he's not going to contact me again, so I assume that it's done, we're over, I'm not going to have to deal with it anymore, I can delete his messages now and never worry about it again and it's all passed. I mean yes he's ignoring the multiple requests of "do not contact me again" but everything else he's doing sounds exactly like how you're supposed to apologize and make it up to someone so I keep on thinking I should give him another chance or that he's done now and sigh... I don't know.

Another problem is that well... I did date him briefly, and he does have a couple nudes of mine. He said that he'd deleted them, but I'm not sure I can believe that anymore. I don't know if he'd post them and if so, how I could know and what I could do.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Enail on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:28 pm

The fact that he's contacting you to apologize over and over, against your wishes, means that he thinks his desire to apologize is more important than your feelings. Which in spirit is the opposite of an apology. It's not taking responsibility, because he's still still trying to walk all over you and manipulate you. It's not thinking about you, because he's not acting in a way that's thoughtful to you. Whether he's doing this so he can marinate in the beautiful suffering of self-flagellation with an audience or to to keep in contact with you and get you to keep thinking about him, he's using your existence for his own gratification, even if it's a negative gratification. It's entirely self-centered and manipulative.

I'm really, really glad he's not been threatening you, but suicide threats are also threats - he's telling you that he will kill someone, and implying that it's your fault, using your kindness and human decency against you to try to get you to contact him or at least to take up more of your brainspace with guilt and worry.

This sounds really draining and stressful and awful. I wish I had some practical advice for this, but if nothing else, I can keep telling you that his behaviour is not okay and you are 100% doing the right thing to respond to it as scary, harmful stalking no matter how sad he acts.
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:32 pm

Enail wrote: Whether he's doing this so he can marinate in the beautiful suffering of self-flagellation with an audience or to to keep in contact with you and get you to keep thinking about him, he's using your existence for his own gratification, even if it's a negative gratification. It's entirely self-centered and manipulative.

Yeah you're probably right about this, I think mostly likely the whole repeated "I'll never talk to you again I'm deleting your number don't even bother responding to this" thing is because he wants me to keep thinking about him, wants to make sure I'm obsessing about him like he's obsessing about me. And that's been really challenging for me, because he's succeeding. I don't know how to stop thinking about him, how to stop obsessing about this, how to let go of all the anger and violent fantasies I have towards him. According to Galvin de Becker, all I am to do now is to give him zero attention or response, positive or negative. As he repeatedly writes, even a "fuck off and die" buys me another six weeks before this fucko loses attention. And that's just so... Frustrating.

Also like the violent fantasies of just what I wish I could do to him if only I could are kinda disturbing me too... I'm not like this I swear! I just don't know how to let this go...

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Wondering on Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:05 pm

Ditto. Continuing to contact, no matter the time frame between contacts, after you told him to stop is harassment. My ex would go months, too. The time between contacts doesn't matter. Just that you told him to stop and he didn't.

Do you have a therapist? I think you've mentioned that you do. They might be able to help you connect with some resources since you aren't a student and don't have those sorts of legal advice options.

And yeah, DO NOT RESPOND. Even for a "fuck off and die."

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by reboot on Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:58 am

Sorry, I was offline all day. I think it is stalking for the same reasons enail and wondering gave. Who is the least appropriate person to come to for emotional support because you feel bad for doing something to? The person who asked for no contact because of what you did. He is violating an explicit boundary repeatedly. He scared you enough to call 911. The only way to make this right is for him to leave you alone
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Werel on Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:06 am

reboot wrote:Who is the least appropriate person to come to for emotional support because you feel bad for doing something to? The person who asked for no contact because of what you did. He is violating an explicit boundary repeatedly. He scared you enough to call 911. The only way to make this right is for him to leave you alone

reboot wrote:The only way to make this right is for him to leave you alone


Yes.
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:47 pm

Thank you so much guys, I'll be seeing my therapist on Thursday and I'll tell her about what has been going on. I deleted my OKCupid account, which was on of the ways he was using to get in contact with me (creating new accounts after I had blocked his old one) and he hasn't tried calling me again, so I think I might be in the clear to just keep my head down and wait for this to pass. If he wanted to come by my house he would have already done so, I think. I doubt a restraining order is going to be necessary at the moment. Thank you so much for your reassurances though, you're completely right--the person who told him to never contact her again is not the person he should be going to for emotional support or forgiveness and if I was in his position if someone had told me clearly "do not contact me again" I wouldn't, no matter what, even if it was painful and I missed them and wanted to apologize.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by eselle28 on Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:05 pm

Oh, fuck, I am so sorry that you're going through this. It is absolutely stalking. You're doing everything right. If he does contact you again, document document document and consider the no contact order. For now, be as good to yourself as you can. This sounds incredibly scary and stressful.
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:08 pm

He contacted me today. New messages, bragging about how he can get around the block on his phone. I don't know how. Is he using a Google Voice number? I'm so scared and sick to my stomach.

I can't get over it. He was BRAGGING ABOUT HOW HE COULD GET AROUND THE BLOCK ON MY PHONE!!! What a fucking sicko I can't even believe it...

I'm sorry guys. I'm in so much shock right now. I thought this was over. I tried to go to the police station but they couldn't do anything due to it being a national holiday. I don't know what to do.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Werel on Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:42 pm

What a complete piece of shit. I am so sorry he's still contacting you. Since the police can't do anything today, take care of yourself, turn off your phone, and hang out with comforting people until tomorrow, when hopefully you can figure out what the cops can do for you.

If you want to start thinking about a restraining order (which I might if I were you, but obviously it's 100% your call), you may want to keep that message, as stressful as it is to have it around. Maybe turn off your phone and ignore it until you can get a copy of the message to someone else, ideally someone who can help you keep your documentation in order and keeping you from having his messages/texts/emails floating around your computer and stressing you out. He's making clear that he does NOT intend to be deterred by your efforts to keep him away from you, and legal repercussions are merited at this point, IMO.

Hugs.
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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Prajnaparamita on Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:54 pm

I'm going to get a restraining order. It's thoroughly clear to me now that it's mandatory and he's not going to go away on his own.

Guys, I feel so very horrible right now. This is a bit of a long story but I'm a total wreck right now and I could really use your support.

So over a year ago my best friend Maddy dated this creepy guy, let's call him Joe. Joe was a really terrible partner, and they only lasted a few months, thank god. I can't tell you all the ways that Joe was terrible but for example,I'm pretty sure he sexually assaulted Maddy while they were together. (What she told me is that she told him she didn't want sex and then woke up to him taking her clothes off and his hand down her pants. She considers what happened to be a simple consent mistake on his part and forgave him, I really didn't.) Anyway, even though they really didn't date for very long and she broke up with him quite awhile ago he never let go, periodically he would spam up her phone with guilt trips and rants about how she was such a terrible person and demands that she see him again. All of Maddy's friends and I always encouraged her to block this creep and end it, but she'd always forgive him or make excuses for his behavior and keep engaging with him.

Anyway, FINALLY last night she got to a place where she was willing to cut off contact with him, and I helped her craft a message asking him to end contact and tried to talk through what was likely going to happen next. Well Joe took this about as well as you'd expect--he sent her a five paragraph long rant about how she was such a terrible person for doing this and how he expected so much better from her and perfectly worded guilt trips designed exactly to get under her skin and hit her where it would hurt the most. She was totally distraught by this and I was trying to talk her down from apologizing and metaphorically throwing herself at his feet begging for forgiveness when well that text from my stalker came in. And I lost it. I totally lost it.

I feel terrible about this but I lashed out at her. I just couldn't stand to watch her forgive and apologize for that creep. I was so filled with anger, at her and every other woman who is willing to apologize for abusive men and enables them to continue their predatory behavior and I know it's wrong to victim blame and she's not the one at fault here but I just...

God I feel so horrible right now. Fuck my stalker, fuck Joe. Fuck Donald Trump. But mostly fuck me.

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Re: Stalker problems

Post by Enail on Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:14 pm

It's fucking hard sometimes to keep fighting and fighting to put the anger on the assholes it belongs on when it feels like the whole world is set up to keep them from having to take the brunt of it, to redirect it back to those who've been harmed, to put it back on you and make you eat it. I think it's pretty understandable to lose your temper and lash out at someone who you know isn't the one who deserves that anger.
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