On the ethics of becoming God - help with brainstorming? [disc]

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Re: On the ethics of becoming God - help with brainstorming? [disc]

Post by Thanos6 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:03 am

Actually, I figure he DOES grant almost every wish. He won't do things that strip a third party of their free-will, so no "make so-and-so sleep with me" or things like that. And he can't give everyone, say, the BIGGEST diamond (or whatever) in the world, but he can give everyone equally big diamonds. But if everyone wants a pony, everyone gets a pony.


So all New Earth people are immortal? Does that mean they can jump off buildings and live? Skydive with no parachute?

Pretty much. Death on New Earth only comes when invited, and that's very rare. Likewise, injuries either heal instantly or don't happen at all, depending on what each individual prefers ("Is it cooler to be Wolverine or Superman?").

Does that translate to the Old Earth?

Do you mean, "are they immortal if they visit Old Earth?"

You do realize him living in a palace will make New Earth people resent him. It will look like an unearned privilege because he came into their social development so early.

I'm not sure I understand. New Earth has no one living on it until he and those who choose to follow him move there. Neither humanity nor any other sapient species ever evolved on this version of Earth. Literally everyone there knows how important he is and what he does for them.

(Also, they can have palaces too, if they just ask for them)

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Re: On the ethics of becoming God - help with brainstorming? [disc]

Post by reboot on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:37 am

And I thought he did not create living things? So how could he give everyone a pony? You might want to decide one way or the other whether he creates life.

Would he grant people the same powers as him if they wished for it?

Thanos6 wrote:
So here is the big question: when does he intervene? How far down history's path will people be when he comes?

Very early.  Possibly as early as the first split of Homo from Australopithecus roughly 3 million years ago.  Certainly no later than the evolution of archaic Homo sapiens approximately 400,000 years ago.  He is willing to invest a LOT of time and effort to ensure that things are proceeding well by the time a more modern Homo sapiens has evolved--and he'll make sure it will evolve, no matter how much he mucks around.
.

So now we have 2 sets of humans, the ones from Old Earth and the to be evolved New Earth, correct? One set immortal and with the knowledge of his history and one that evolves with him in place (immortal too?). Presumably he is closest to the people he brought with him because they will be more like him and the ones who evolve will think him a god because he is this all powerful being that was there before them. That is a situation where exploitation of the newly evolved humans by his Old Earth followers is very possible. You have a 2 tiered humanity set up based on experience living in Old Earth and (in some cases) knowing him before he had power.

I notice that you are trying to smooth out all potential big conflict or situation where he has to make a hard choice that might lose reader liking/sympathy, something people do when they really like their character and want them to be loved. As a reader, I advise you to fight that urge because it makes for a boring read. Let him mess up big or accidentally make something he tries to fix worse and risk letting some readers disliking him. Otherwise it is just Mr. Perfect flitting around in his perfect world fixing hangnails and other minor annoyances.

Now, if you just want to world build and skip a single storyline, you could do something like make it a guidebook of New Earth with vignettes interspersed.Between the Assassinations is one example of this type of structure

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Re: On the ethics of becoming God - help with brainstorming? [disc]

Post by Thanos6 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:54 am

Oh, I see, I think there was a misunderstanding.  The "evolving humanity from the beginning" thing is something that I decided to move to a subplot, he's trying that out on a Third Earth (no ThunderCats present).  The multiverse is so mind-bogglingly vast that if he so chooses, he can use millions and millions of universes as basically laboratories.; some have no sapient life on Earth, some have no sapient life anywhere in them, some have no life in them at all, so he can experiment in them to varying degrees.

New Earth is populated only by immigrants from Old Earth and their descendants, while Third Earth is kept isolated from the first two while the "experiment" unfolds.  I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

I don't want him to be perfectly loved or liked by all the readers, but I want to make sure that he never stops being sympathetic.

I've had that scene of him almost having a mental breakdown from all the stress and responsibility of being a benevolent God-Emperor percolating in my head for 22 years now, so I really want to use it, and I think that for it to work as I want it to work he has to stay sympathetic.

That's also why him becoming omnipotent is a sheer accident and nothing he caused at all, so readers can't say that he brought it on himself by seeking out such power; it's the radioactive spider taken to infinity.

(Thanks for the book recommendation, BTW, I'll try to check it out)

EDIT, because I forgot to address some of your other points:

And I thought he did not create living things? So how could he give everyone a pony? You might want to decide one way or the other whether he creates life.

He doesn't create sapient beings.  Creating non-sapient beings is still a bit uncomfortable for him but he's more willing to do so.  He might just scan the multiverse for "a pony that would enjoy being owned by person So-And-So" and bring it to them, repeated however many times.

Would he grant people the same powers as him if they wished for it?

No, because he doesn't trust anyone, not even his closest friends, with that level of power.  He'd probably be willing to grant them a tiny fraction of it, though, and let them have an uninhabited universe to play around with, but with some built-in restrictions to keep them from getting ethically out of hand.
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Re: On the ethics of becoming God - help with brainstorming? [disc]

Post by nearly_takuan on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:19 pm

No, because he doesn't trust anyone, not even his closest friends, with that level of power. He'd probably be willing to grant them a tiny fraction of it, though, and let them have an uninhabited universe to play around with, but with some built-in restrictions to keep them from getting ethically out of hand.

Fanfic-y take: Friend feels very hurt that god doesn't trust him with full power, yet also won't de-power himself to be on the same level as everyone else. Things escalate to a point where the only way to defuse the conflict is to place Friend in a simulated universe with a simulated population, in which Friend is practically omnipotent with the exception that if Friend uses their powers to investigate whether or not their universe is a simulation, they will get a "false" answer based on whatever would cause them to believe they are not inside a simulation. (Which is to say the barriers between reality and simulation are so thick that a simulated Oracle that otherwise knows everything will claim it exists inside the Prime Reality.) Angst ensues, because after all, if it's possible to construct a simulated omnipotence under such constraints, then God Himself has no way of knowing whether or not his own omnipotence is merely simulated....
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Re: On the ethics of becoming God - help with brainstorming? [disc]

Post by Thanos6 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:49 pm

That's an interesting idea.  I do have him nervous about the idea that there's a "real" God out there, as the term is more commonly thought of; the type that created all of existence, and he's always a little paranoid that said he'll cross some kind of line or the creator God will eventually grow tired of him and intervene.

As it turns out, there is a creator God, but it is the deistic type who doesn't intervene at all, simply observes.

But I really like that take on it, takuan.
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