Shaking my head in dispare over this

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Post by Randomly Rolled on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:31 pm

Sometimes a shirt is just a shirt. He probably just threw a shirt on mindlessly, thinking it was cool. Nothing wrong with displaying a fascination with a woman's body.While it might be deemed insensitive, I really don't see a problem with showing women (or men) in sexy circumstances. Every last one of well...everyone...looks at that king of thing in private. *Gasp*...actually show it?! oh...wait...big deal. Privacy is something I despise, personally. Ask me sometime. I don't see any PUA statements or mysoginistic tags attached. Sounds like a bit of overreaction, which I have seen on some femblogs. And yes, from what I've seen so far, PUA's are douchebags, and more than deserving of scorn..unsolicited touching is never cool. Basically, no worries man. I agree that it's way overblown. Also, Never cry. It's ummanly Razz


Last edited by Randomly Rolled on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Mel on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:38 pm

Randomly Rolled wrote:Sometimes a shirt is just a shirt. He probably just threw a shirt on mindlessly, thinking it was cool. Nothing wrong with displaying a fascination with a woman's body. I don't see any PUA statements or mysoginistic tags. Sounds like a bit of overreaction, which I have seen on some femblogs. No worries man. Also, Never cry. It's ummanly Razz

Did you read the rest of this thread? I think people have done a pretty good job of explaining why, in this case, a shirt is not just a shirt and this was not an appropriate venue for displaying a fascination with women's bodies.
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Post by Enail on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:42 pm

<mod>Randomly Rolled, have you read the rest of this thread? Your comment doesn't show any sign that you've listened to what others in this thread are saying or have anything to contribute in regards to the specific points being made.  If you are going to comment on issues about which other people feel strongly, and particularly if you are going to assert that their objections are an overreaction, please make sure that you have some information or relevant reasoning to back up that claim. If you are not interested in having a good-faith discussion, don't participate.

Since this is something that mods have already reminded people of in this thread, this is your only warning on this issue. </mod>
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Post by Randomly Rolled on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:46 pm

Sorry, I edited my post, because I felt what I had written was insensitive in general. I admit the adjustment might still be, but I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with showing what you like. (see my bit about being real) Maybe that's a fault? I would consider that possibility. And yes, I think he did just throw a shirt on mindlessly, not thinking he'd get a bad reaction. And no, I did not read the thread, sorry. I read what I considered pertinent, which was how I felt about how He felt. I don't think he was inappropriate in how he felt. There are far worse things out there. I would love to link a newspaper editorial about breastfeeding protests at the local Y during Bush's attack on Iraq, but it probably wouldn't go over too well Sad (btw sucks that my just a t-shirt thing fell short :Þ) err like my post. I do respect other's opinions, but I felt that the OP's problem was what I was responding to. I have my own opinions, preconcieved perhaps, and I do not mean to fuck with anyone elses feelings on the matter. There are so many different angles to Every single part of life, that I can't really make sense of them, let alone comment or judge them. I just wanted to let him know that I don't think his feelings that this is a non-issue in the greater scheme of things is invalid. God knows there are so many worse things to worry about, other than one man's silly decision to wear something he probably thought was hip. I did not read other people's opinions, because they are just that. Sorry. pale

Embarassed k that's better


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Post by nearly_takuan on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:47 pm

Er, his reason for wearing the shirt has already been discussed. In like the first fifteen posts. There's more to it than throwing it on mindlessly, but the problem isn't with the reason he wore the shirt so much as the reason he never considered wearing a different one. And was never asked to consider wearing a different one.

It seems that I actually have turned off my crying mechanisms, and I'm okay with that, and it doesn't bother me, and I don't really blame anyone else for that happening, but I'd rather we didn't tell other people how they can and cannot harmlessly express their emotions and police manliness, even as a joke....

It also seems to me that the "Solidarity!" crowd has failed to consider that they're also erasing Dr. Taylor's own experience and casting aspersions on his sincerity by leveraging his expression of regret to attack "the feminists". It also wasn't overblown in the first place; they made it overblown by building up this whole backlash scandal thing.

That's right, dudebros, never mind that you're hurting a lot of women; you're also hurting one man! Maybe noticing the horror of that consequence would put a stop to this? One can only hope.
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Post by Randomly Rolled on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:21 pm

lmao, nice, Takuen. Your sarcasm hit home. Yea ok, one man vs how many million women. But really, are they actually hurt?. Objectification is an issue. But, I've seen far worse. Shoot me in the face for printing kinky Doujin pics and posting em on the wall. Just another reason to engage in 101.

I will never pretend to be as smart as you guys are. I just want to know how to Not be a douchebag when I talk to women. Because I'm not one. Despite aspersions to the contrary.





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Post by eselle28 on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:29 pm

<mod hat>Randomly Rolled, you were previously given instructions about participating in conversations in good faith and listening to others' opinions. You were also told that this would be your only warning. Take a few days off from the site and spend some time thinking about those instructions.</mod hat>
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Post by Mel on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:33 pm

I just want to add, Randomly Rolled, that if you actually care about understanding these issues from a 101 level, the most basic 101 level skill is listening to other people when they're explaining how they feel about things and how things impact them.  Deciding not to read other people's opinions because "they're just opinions" is exactly the opposite of attempting to learn.  You would know the answer to questions like "are they actually hurt?" if you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread, and it's insulting to the women who've already taken the time to explain their concerns to act as if you don't think they could have anything worthwhile to say or as if they should explain it all over again to you now.
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Post by Werel on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:33 pm

Randomly Rolled wrote:lmao, nice, Takuen. Your sarcasm hit home. Yea ok, one man vs how many million women. But really, are they actually hurt?
I just want to know how to Not be a douchebag when I talk to women. Because I'm not one. Despite aspersions to the contrary.

Not Being a Douchebag Guideline #1: when somebody says "that hurt me," don't say "BUT DID IT ACTUALLY?? I DIDN'T LISTEN WHILE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT I DOUBT IT. LET'S SEE SOME STATS."

I hope you're serious about wanting to learn how to deal with folks better, cause we'll be happy to talk about 101 stuff in your other thread!

edit: yes, what Mel said. Shiny/thrilled
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Post by username_6916 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:11 am

As a matter of fact, I do have a problem with the way plea bargains are often used. Lots of innocent people are intimidated into pleading guilty.

Forced confessions are a tactic of every despot and show trail in history, from the Salem Witch Trials to the Soviet Union. It the definition of a Kalfkatrap to suggest that by denying that some action is "sexist/racist/etc.ist" is confirming that you are in fact racist.

More to the point, I view that such rules are unjust when applied by the state.







Personally *I* would prefer professional BUT I do not think his wardrobe should be a topic if he happened to go with an inoffensive, yet casual, shirt. I too think the "whacky scientist" image has been done to death!

The question is, who gets to define 'inoffensive'. There are certain religious sects that would object to a picture of of a human being, or any picture of a living animal. There are NASA administrators who would object to a picture of Feynman, or for that matter, saying things like "the O-Ring on the SRB can get brittle in low temperatures". What makes this offense more important than any other offense?






Not Being a Douchebag Guideline #1: when somebody says "that hurt me," don't say "BUT DID IT ACTUALLY?? I DIDN'T LISTEN WHILE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT I DOUBT IT. LET'S SEE SOME STATS."

And, yet that doesn't apply to the other side? Why not?


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Post by nearly_takuan on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:16 am

username_6916 wrote:
Not Being a Douchebag Guideline #1: when somebody says "that hurt me," don't say "BUT DID IT ACTUALLY?? I DIDN'T LISTEN WHILE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT I DOUBT IT. LET'S SEE SOME STATS."

And, yet that doesn't apply to the other side? Why not?

I think it's because Taylor is a grown-ass man with a Ph.D. and he can decide for himself whether he's hurt or not and take responsibility for his own actions. When you give your interpretation that he's been "hurt" by the mean feminists who made him cry, you are denying his interpretation that he was crying because he feels bad about what he did and recognizes that it was an unwise decision that had negative, regrettable consequences. I don't think it's "one man vs a million women" because I don't think the people raising an uproar about this are actually on his side in the first place. They're hurting one man and a million women, and only defending themselves.
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Post by username_6916 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:25 am

Did I say anything about Taylor himself being hurt? By your own argument, doesn't the fact that third parties, who are "only defending themselves", fell 'hurt' should be enough to reconsider. Why is questioning them somehow okay, while questioning their opponents not?

By the 'listen and believe' standard you propose, I can make an argument that I'm hurt and discouraged from going into certain fields within science by this backlash. Why should that be taken any less seriously than the claim that this shirt somehow is discouraging young women from entering these fields?

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Post by reboot on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:35 am

reboot wrote:MOD

Please everyone, if you are jumping in now, go back and read the entire thread plus supplementary information provided by Mel. This discussion has been going in circles for days, mostly because people are not reading what others have already said. If it keeps going like this, the thread will be locked.
/MOD

As it seems that my simple modly request has been completely ignored, I am locking this thread. If people want it reopened, please take the time to read all of the posts and PM me in a few days.
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