[DISC]How much does not being in a relationship affects you and how do you cope?

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Post by reboot on Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Valentine's day does not bother me at all as I never celebrated it when in a relationship. It was always just another day.

The family pressure thing is annoying to the point if being funnily enraging in my family (brother and wife excepted). Random relationship websites and books sent to me, nagging about how I "lost" my husband and should try to get him back, suggestions that if I can not remarry I should join a convent, asking me why I do not marry a client in a marriage/citizenship exchange, suprise dates set up by my mother with 80 year old widowers and worse. I tune it out.

My friends never ask since they know if I want to tell them something I will. I think it took me a few years to tell anyone I was married. I am not a big sharer on that part of my life.
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Post by LadyIkaros on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:19 pm

MapWater wrote:A side note, tangentially related: does anyone have others bring up your single-ness? Because I hear it happen a lot to people I know online but it's only ever happened once to me.

When I was younger - in my teens and twenties - it would happen from time to time, but not anymore. I think I've reached the age of lost cause. Or, my family has given up and everyone else around me have matured into not sticking their noses into that sort of thing.
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Post by StrangePanda on Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:02 pm

The Mikey wrote:
Even if more women played or went to some of the stuff I liked, I feel like I'd be playing to the old adage of creepy nerd likes to hit on anyone female. No thanks, I don't want to come across as that kind of dude. I'd rather shut my face up. In addition to my own fear of rejections, etc. Plus, it seems rather dishonest of me to be going to those kind of events with that preconceived notion/intention.

*sigh* Maybe every dude thinks like this when there is a girl in the same room with a lot of guys. Results? No one is hitting on this girl. She feels unwanted and wonders why there is no one approaching or talking with her. She blames herself, she thinks she's not pretty enough. You know how people give advice to do an activity where are more people of opposite gender to have a chance to find someone? Well, here she is. Yes, there always are  creepy dudes hitting on her but it does not depend on weither there's a lot of guys and less girls or not. It happens. It can also happen that this girl is not looking for someone and just here to chill and enjoy her hobby. Or she's looking for someone and is here because she likes the stuff. You can never know. I think what's important is that you have to back off if she starts to look uncomfortable if you try to engage a conversation with her. That's the difference between normal guys and creepy guys because creepy guys keep pushing or tell inappropriate things even if she does not look enthusiastic about interacting with you.
Anyway, it's just my opinion, as a girl who often hangs out with dudes who shut their faces up. I don't know if it's because I'm ugly or because they don't want girls in their boys club or just because they are thinking like you think.

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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:11 am

StrangePanda wrote:
*sigh* Maybe every dude thinks like this when there is a girl in the same room with a lot of guys. Results? No one is hitting on this girl. She feels unwanted and wonders why there is no one approaching or talking with her. She blames herself, she thinks she's not pretty enough. You know how people give advice to do an activity where are more people of opposite gender to have a chance to find someone? Well, here she is. Yes, there always are  creepy dudes hitting on her but it does not depend on weither there's a lot of guys and less girls or not. It happens. It can also happen that this girl is not looking for someone and just here to chill and enjoy her hobby. Or she's looking for someone and is here because she likes the stuff. You can never know. I think what's important is that you have to back off if she starts to look uncomfortable if you try to engage a conversation with her. That's the difference between normal guys and creepy guys because creepy guys keep pushing or tell inappropriate things even if she does not look enthusiastic about interacting with you.
Anyway, it's just my opinion, as a girl who often hangs out with dudes who shut their faces up. I don't know if it's because I'm ugly or because they don't want girls in their boys club or just because they are thinking like you think.

Gah, if I struck a chord, I apologize with the utmost sincerity. I can only speak for myself in these types situations because I have indeed been there.

I generally tend to reason that that girl probably isn't looking for anything for whatever reason and just wants to be left alone to partake in $hobby we all enjoy without having people bug her. Which is totally cool and understandable. You're correct as well in that I may never know, but what I do know is that I just want to treat her with respect and kindness like I would anyone who joins my D&D table. I don't mind engaging in conversation at all with her, but I won't try hitting on them because I'm sure I'm just another dude in a long line of dudes who may already hit on her. I'm not sure of that either and I would rather not put the cart before the horse or risk giving off the wrong first impression, so, I let it go. I don't wanna be that guy because I'm definitely not that guy. I may look like it at times, but I can assure you, I am not. I'm just silly Mikey, the goofy kid who likes to make terrible dry jokes at the D&D table. Razz

I don't know what's going on in the heads of the boys in your groups. I really don't, so I can't say for sure what's goin' on. Matter of fact, I'm a huge advocate of having more female players because it seems like more fun (to me at least).

If I am wrong, mistaken, or missed your point entirely, please forgive me. Embarassed

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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:18 am

Thanks for the answers to that question - it's interesting. I figured I don't get asked because I was considered a lost cause by default. But that seems to stem from having confidence and self-esteem issues before thinking about relationships, so I look back at not being asked about it rather jadedly. It's just  a thing I noticed a lot of people comment on I had not a lot of experience in myself.

The Mikey wrote:
StrangePanda wrote:
*sigh* Maybe every dude thinks like this when there is a girl in the same room with a lot of guys. Results? No one is hitting on this girl. She feels unwanted and wonders why there is no one approaching or talking with her. She blames herself, she thinks she's not pretty enough. You know how people give advice to do an activity where are more people of opposite gender to have a chance to find someone? Well, here she is. Yes, there always are  creepy dudes hitting on her but it does not depend on weither there's a lot of guys and less girls or not. It happens. It can also happen that this girl is not looking for someone and just here to chill and enjoy her hobby. Or she's looking for someone and is here because she likes the stuff. You can never know. I think what's important is that you have to back off if she starts to look uncomfortable if you try to engage a conversation with her. That's the difference between normal guys and creepy guys because creepy guys keep pushing or tell inappropriate things even if she does not look enthusiastic about interacting with you.
Anyway, it's just my opinion, as a girl who often hangs out with dudes who shut their faces up. I don't know if it's because I'm ugly or because they don't want girls in their boys club or just because they are thinking like you think.

Gah, if I struck a chord, I apologize with the utmost sincerity. I can only speak for myself in these types situations because I have indeed been there.

Yeah, I'm sorry if I didn't help in that regard as well.

To be fair, I don't go out of my way to talk to men at the events I go to if I can possibly avoid it. Audio shows are all about the tech and maybe picking something up and cons are for merch, panels and showings. Everything else I typically go with friends I already know well or not go at all. In other words, socialising in general is pretty low priority.

I certainly have less personally-imposed barriers in approaching a guy at any of these things for whatever reason, but I'm not letting a lack of barriers stop me from being generally quiet and out of the way.

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Post by nearly_takuan on Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:48 am

StrangePanda wrote:
The Mikey wrote:
Even if more women played or went to some of the stuff I liked, I feel like I'd be playing to the old adage of creepy nerd likes to hit on anyone female. No thanks, I don't want to come across as that kind of dude. I'd rather shut my face up. In addition to my own fear of rejections, etc. Plus, it seems rather dishonest of me to be going to those kind of events with that preconceived notion/intention.

*sigh* Maybe every dude thinks like this when there is a girl in the same room with a lot of guys. Results? No one is hitting on this girl. She feels unwanted and wonders why there is no one approaching or talking with her. She blames herself, she thinks she's not pretty enough. You know how people give advice to do an activity where are more people of opposite gender to have a chance to find someone? Well, here she is. Yes, there always are  creepy dudes hitting on her but it does not depend on weither there's a lot of guys and less girls or not. It happens. It can also happen that this girl is not looking for someone and just here to chill and enjoy her hobby. Or she's looking for someone and is here because she likes the stuff. You can never know. I think what's important is that you have to back off if she starts to look uncomfortable if you try to engage a conversation with her. That's the difference between normal guys and creepy guys because creepy guys keep pushing or tell inappropriate things even if she does not look enthusiastic about interacting with you.
Anyway, it's just my opinion, as a girl who often hangs out with dudes who shut their faces up. I don't know if it's because I'm ugly or because they don't want girls in their boys club or just because they are thinking like you think.

Why can we never know? Because people are too often too scared to stop playing the maybe-I-like-you-maybe-I-don't game. There's plenty of failure to show intent on all sides here....




Lately I think I am mostly coping most of the time, and I am doing this by compartmentalizing problems and thoughts on problems and projecting those onto more abstract entities. So instead of feeling sorry for myself, I am imagining that the slice of me that wants things out of life he can't get is a different person, and feeling sorry for him instead, but not actually being that person. Best way I can describe it. I am not sure if this is a sustainable thing or if eventually those mental barriers will break down.
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Post by Jayce on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:08 am

The Mikey wrote:
I generally tend to reason that that girl probably isn't looking for anything for whatever reason and just wants to be left alone to partake in $hobby we all enjoy without having people bug her. Which is totally cool and understandable. You're correct as well in that I may never know, but what I do know is that I just want to treat her with respect and kindness like I would anyone who joins my D&D table. I don't mind engaging in conversation at all with her, but I won't try hitting on them because I'm sure I'm just another dude in a long line of dudes who may already hit on her. I'm not sure of that either and I would rather not put the cart before the horse or risk giving off the wrong first impression, so, I let it go. I don't wanna be that guy because I'm definitely not that guy. I may look like it at times, but I can assure you, I am not. I'm just silly Mikey, the goofy kid who likes to make terrible dry jokes at the D&D table. Razz

I'm curious about what you think of other men who choose to make a move. If I were flirting with a woman I met at the D&D game, in front of you, would you immediately think I'm just being a bug to her? If I'm flirting with her am I automatically treating her with less respect and kindness, then you would, by not flirting? I also find it a bit troubling, that you put yourself in the long line of dudes that may hit on her, instead of Mikey the individual. Does that mean to you, if I flirt with her I am also just part of the long line of dudes, instead of me?


Also, the reason for why we can never know, is because none of us are mind readers. Also assuming things automatically about a person before you even meet them can be problematic (Now I don't mean by this, don't judge people, we as humans always make judgments whether they be good, neutral or bad) but I mean be honest with yourself and admit that you have no idea who this other person is and what they value.

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Post by nearly_takuan on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:12 am

Of course we aren't mind readers. That is why communication is important. Instead of waiting to be asked about information you supposedly already want to give, you might try just telling people.

Of course it isn't easy. It isn't easy being the other party either.
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Post by Jayce on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:29 am

You are right, that is true, not communicating information you want to give is a form of failure.

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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:32 am

Jayce wrote:
I'm curious about what you think of other men who choose to make a move. If I were flirting with a woman I met at the D&D game, in front of you, would you immediately think I'm just being a bug to her? If I'm flirting with her am I automatically treating her with less respect and kindness, then you would, by not flirting?  I also find it a bit troubling, that you put yourself in the long line of dudes that may hit on her, instead of Mikey the individual. Does that mean to you, if I flirt with her I am also just part of the long line of dudes, instead of me?

What I think? I think they're braver men than I. Honestly, chances are I wouldn't notice you flirting with them seeing as how I don't really know how flirting works too well. I prolly would think you're being friendly more than anything. Sorry, I missed a 'would' in there and why is it troubling though? *I* know I'm an individual, this hypothetical woman does not, or maybe she can smell individuality on me. Or maybe she knows me better than I know myself. -shrug- Idk I'd expect you to still be a friendly.

Jayce wrote:
Also, the reason for why we can never know, is because none of us are mind readers. Also assuming things automatically about a person before you even meet them can be problematic (Now I don't mean by this, don't judge people, we as humans always make judgments whether they be good, neutral or bad) but I mean be honest with yourself and admit that you have no idea who this other person is and what they value.

Correct, but in general, most people I've met don't want anything to do with me probably. No, I don't know who this other person is but I'm willing to speak to them if theyre cool with it.

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Post by Jayce on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:41 am

The Mikey wrote:

What I think? I think they're braver men than I. Honestly, chances are I wouldn't notice you flirting with them seeing as how I don't really know how flirting works too well. I prolly would think you're being friendly more than anything. Sorry, I missed a 'would' in there and why is it troubling though? *I* know I'm an individual, this hypothetical woman does not

I think its not that other guys are braver in general, maybe they just practiced more at this, or are willing to take more risks in this specific skill. You could be brave too, you know.  Grin

It troubles me a bit cause I like to believe, in good faith, that people I meet will see me as an individual.

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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:47 am

Jayce wrote:
The Mikey wrote:

What I think? I think they're braver men than I. Honestly, chances are I wouldn't notice you flirting with them seeing as how I don't really know how flirting works too well. I prolly would think you're being friendly more than anything. Sorry, I missed a 'would' in there and why is it troubling though? *I* know I'm an individual, this hypothetical woman does not

I think its not that other guys are braver in general, maybe they just practiced more at this, or are willing to take more risks in this specific skill. You could be brave too, you know.  Grin

It troubles me a bit cause I like to believe, in good faith, that people I meet will see me as an individual.

I could, but I'm afraid. Embarassed I don't want to be the weird one who asks out the girls that join the game because neither of us I don't think are there for that. We're there for GP and sweet loot. Razz

And of course you're an individual, I'm just so accustomed to being told that I'm the one that's after one thing and one thing only. So I try to shuffle it away.

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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:59 am

Jayce wrote:
The Mikey wrote:

What I think? I think they're braver men than I. Honestly, chances are I wouldn't notice you flirting with them seeing as how I don't really know how flirting works too well. I prolly would think you're being friendly more than anything. Sorry, I missed a 'would' in there and why is it troubling though? *I* know I'm an individual, this hypothetical woman does not

I think its not that other guys are braver in general, maybe they just practiced more at this, or are willing to take more risks in this specific skill. You could be brave too, you know.  Grin

It troubles me a bit cause I like to believe, in good faith, that people I meet will see me as an individual.

I wish I could believe that you could produce bravery from thin air in my case. Or that I could believe people don't just see a dork when they see me.

I mean, the answer I can predict to the 'becoming braver' is obvious: it's not easy, it takes work. But that's an investment of energy and time that I just cannot envision it paying off.

But the latter, people seeing you as an individual? I have a clichéd high-pitch nasal-y voice. I'm furiously unfit. My interests range from the dorky to the inanely dorky. I'm a clearly nervous and skittish person. I'm awkward, quiet and aloof. I'm a walking bloody nerd stereotype and that is going to be first impression for most if not all people.

It's why I hate even labelling myself a nerd - I want to be so far away from that image (hell, the culture itself most of the time) that it hurts. I don't even bloody fit in very well here at all, I feel, even if the people are lovely and helpful.

So, to be a little more on topic, the fact I don't even feel like I fit in with the group I've been socially assigned is actually helpful towards not feeling lonely. Because, really, it kind of reinforces that I wouldn't have much luck with nerdy women either so I can just strike that out and move on.

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Post by readertorider on Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:24 pm

Not sure if we've gone too off topic or not, but my thoughts on asking a woman out in a predominately male area:

In a large venue where everyone presumably has a similar interest (Model Train show, large CS lecture etc.)

Do:

  • Go up to her and talk about the event
  • Be polite and respectful
  • Be yourself (to the extent which it doesn't interfere with point above)
  • Leave her alone if she looks uncomfortable, asks you to leave, starts to give you "soft no"s or you sense that you aren't clicking
  • Enjoy spending time with her at event
  • Excuse yourself if you're not having fun
  • Give her some way of contacting you at the end of your encounter if it looks like you both had fun
  • Or if you both had a fun time together at the venue invite her somewhere else to continue the conversation (and again take 'no' for an answer)

Don't:

  • Approach when she's involved in something else (on her way into the ladies room, for instance, or mingling with customers or people who listened to her lecture)
  • Approach a second time after you've been rebuffed, or you parted for some reason--she can find you (unless she explicitly asked you to)
  • Approach in a deserted area of the venue
  • Talk over her or demand attention when she's talking to someone else
  • Assume things about her knowledge of ___
  • Assume that because she's interested in talking to you here or having fun with you here she's either available for potential romance or interested in you romantically

Basically I've gone to a quite a few places alone because friends didn't have an interest or were busy. I personally would be quite flattered if someone approached me in a friendly fashion and wanted to spend time with me. Can't promise you any success (this blueprint doesn't have anything in it to differentiate people looking friends vs. romantic interests and you may not click anyway), but don't let body shape stop you from talking to someone.

For a small venue (tabletop gaming, study group, small party) when you're both new to the group wait till the end when everyone else is out of ear shot (but within screaming distance) and give her your number or invite her someplace. If she wants to pursue something outside of the group activity she will, and if she doesn't pursue anything let it drop.

For a small infrequent event when one of you is new--talk to her and see if you click during the event and give her your number or invite her somewhere if you want to.

For a small regularly occurring event (gaming group, class of some sort) when one of you is new--then I'd say wait, especially if she's the new member. By all means talk and causally flirt with her during the event (if she's enjoying it), but don't make make a formal overture until you're reasonably certain she feels confident that she can refuse you and still remain a valued member of the group.

Don't ask anyone out if you are in the same work group or otherwise forced to continually interact.

Don't ask someone out in front of a group.

Obviously this is all just my opinion, but as a girl who's frequently in places where my gender is not well represented, I do like it when people that share my interests interact with me Wink
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Post by StrangePanda on Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:13 pm

The Mikey wrote:
Gah, if I struck a chord, I apologize with the utmost sincerity. I can only speak for myself in these types situations because I have indeed been there.

No, there is nothing to apologize for!  Smile  I  was just surprised that you think this way.

The Mikey wrote:
I'm sure I'm just another dude in a long line of dudes who may already hit on her. I'm not sure of that either and I would rather not put the cart before the horse or risk giving off the wrong first impression, so, I let it go. I don't wanna be that guy because I'm definitely not that guy.

Well, believe me or not, there is no line of dudes. Unless we are talking about really pretty girl (although, her beauty can be intimidating so she ends up without this line of dudes too). Anyway, an average girl isn't surrounded by guys crushing on her. I think this believe come from assuming women have it easier, therefore if I'm a girl I must have dudes flirting with me all the time. Well, no. (I'm sure you don't think this way, but you internalized this believe without really questionning it). Yes, there are guys who may catcall or tell inappropriate things and don't back off if a girl don't look enthusiastic, but it's not flirting. I'm talking about geniune interest in a girl and in what she has to say.
Respect and kindness have nothing to do with wether you flirt with her or not, it is about how you do it and if you're willing to stop flirting  if she doesn't want it. And anyway, I think you can start simply by paying attention to this girl, acting with her in a friendly way and maybe ask if she wants to hang out with you later or / and ask if you can add her on facebook if your conversation goes well and you both enjoy talking to each other. I don't know about all girls, but I personnally would find this respectful.  
And, um, I like dorky dudes. But only if the dork dude will forgive me if I'm not good at his topic of dorkiness and willing to explain / introduce me to it (exemple: you are really into one particular game but I don't know it very well, then you have to talk about it and explain what is it about and not acting condescending if I don't know what you're talking about).

readertorider: Yes, yes and yes to everything you said!

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Post by nearly_takuan on Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:27 pm

StrangePanda wrote:Well, believe me or not, there is no line of dudes. Unless we are talking about really pretty girl (although, her beauty can be intimidating so she ends up without this line of dudes too). Anyway, an average girl isn't surrounded by guys crushing on her. I think this believe come from assuming women have it easier, therefore if I'm a girl I must have dudes flirting with me all the time.

I don't think it's entirely that. We've all seen our share of these stories too.

StrangePanda wrote:Well, no. (I'm sure you don't think this way, but you internalized this believe without really questionning it). Yes, there are guys who may catcall or tell inappropriate things and don't back off if a girl don't look enthusiastic, but it's not flirting. I'm talking about geniune interest in a girl and in what she has to say.

You keep saying this like it's always super obvious whether a person is enthusiastic or not. Or "genuinely interested" or not.
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Post by reboot on Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:44 pm

nearly_takuan wrote:
StrangePanda wrote:Well, believe me or not, there is no line of dudes. Unless we are talking about really pretty girl (although, her beauty can be intimidating so she ends up without this line of dudes too). Anyway, an average girl isn't surrounded by guys crushing on her. I think this believe come from assuming women have it easier, therefore if I'm a girl I must have dudes flirting with me all the time.

I don't think it's entirely that. We've all seen our share of these stories too.


Uh, NT, that is a story about how ugly and harassing OLD messages turn for women. This is a digital version of catcalling and harassment. That is not a bunch of guys lining up to date someone.
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Post by nearly_takuan on Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:02 pm

....Yes, exactly. It is not a story about how women have it easier, it is a story about how women already get too much unwanted attention. Corollary: best we don't add to it, especially if "we" don't feel super confident in our ability to read whether a particular woman doesn't look enthusiastic.
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Post by StrangePanda on Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:32 pm

nearly_takuan wrote:
StrangePanda wrote:Well, believe me or not, there is no line of dudes. Unless we are talking about really pretty girl (although, her beauty can be intimidating so she ends up without this line of dudes too). Anyway, an average girl isn't surrounded by guys crushing on her. I think this believe come from assuming women have it easier, therefore if I'm a girl I must have dudes flirting with me all the time.

I don't think it's entirely that. We've all seen our share of these stories too.


StrangePanda wrote:Well, no. (I'm sure you don't think this way, but you internalized this believe without really questionning it). Yes, there are guys who may catcall or tell inappropriate things and don't back off if a girl don't look enthusiastic, but it's not flirting. I'm talking about geniune interest in a girl and in what she has to say.

You keep saying this like it's always super obvious whether a person is enthusiastic or not. Or "genuinely interested" or not.

I'm talking about when someone wants to have a conversation with me that may or may not be flirting. I'm not talking about harassement. Unwanted attention is  when people catcall me on the streets, when proposing me sex out of nowhere, when making sexual comments about my appearance ("nice tits", "hey sexy"), when not leaving me alone after I say I'm not interested, when keep messaging me on OLD if I don't respond to your messages, when I'm not smiling  and look frightened and you don't stop.
You can tell if a girl is not enthusiastic: she answers in a monosyllabic, she doesn't ask you questions at all and keeps responding to yours in a very dry style, such as "yes" or "no". She looks a little bit scared. She looks at the door or for the way to escape. She ignores you.
Generaly, if a girl doesn't do any effort to keep the conversation going, she is not interested.
Unwanted attention is not when we're having a conversation and I respond to you.

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Post by nearly_takuan on Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:04 pm

StrangePanda wrote:You can tell if a girl is not enthusiastic: she answers in a monosyllabic, she doesn't ask you questions at all and keeps responding to yours in a very dry style, such as "yes" or "no". She looks a little bit scared. She looks at the door or for the way to escape. She ignores you.
Generaly, if a girl doesn't do any effort to keep the conversation going, she is not interested.

Ah, okay. Never mind, then; false alarm: I haven't neglected anyone after all and it's possible Mikey hasn't either.
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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:20 pm

StrangePanda wrote:
Well, believe me or not, there is no line of dudes. Unless we are talking about really pretty girl (although, her beauty can be intimidating so she ends up without this line of dudes too). Anyway, an average girl isn't surrounded by guys crushing on her. I think this believe come from assuming women have it easier, therefore if I'm a girl I must have dudes flirting with me all the time. Well, no. (I'm sure you don't think this way, but you internalized this believe without really questionning it).

I don't think women necessarily have it easier. But I do think women get far more unwanted attention than anything else sometimes, I would much rather respect your boundaries and keep my distance. I don't think you need me going up to you and saying some silly come-on, because let's be real here, I honestly have no idea what to say to an attractive stranger right off the bat. Wink

StrangePanda wrote:
Yes, there are guys who may catcall or tell inappropriate things and don't back off if a girl don't look enthusiastic, but it's not flirting. I'm talking about geniune interest in a girl and in what she has to say.

I'm usually interested in what a girl has to say, or anyone really, if they wanna say it, they're obviously more than welcome. I'll just shuffle away my attraction if there is any. Razz

StrangePanda wrote:
Respect and kindness have nothing to do with wether you flirt with her or not, it is about how you do it and if you're willing to stop flirting  if she doesn't want it. And anyway, I think you can start simply by paying attention to this girl, acting with her in a friendly way and maybe ask if she wants to hang out with you later or / and ask if you can add her on facebook if your conversation goes well and you both enjoy talking to each other. I don't know about all girls, but I personnally would find this respectful.  
And, um, I like dorky dudes. But only if the dork dude will forgive me if I'm not good at his topic of dorkiness and willing to explain / introduce me to it (exemple: you are really into one particular game but I don't know it very well, then you have to talk about it and explain what is it about and not acting condescending if I don't know what you're talking about).

Gotcha, welp, I haven't the slightest clue as to how I flirt or even how to flirt at all, so I try to keep it as neutral as possible. If I like you, I tend to be nice to you, but if I don't like somebody or they irritate me, I'm a little colder and not as responsive.

I always pay attention and practice active listening, you know you got active listening down when you can drive and pick the conversation back up after missing a turn by repeating the last thing the other person said. Razz I like to think I'm pretty friendly with girls, but if I've met them only once, chances are I'm not gonna ask you to chill with me right outta the gate on the chance that the girl will get a little weirded out, same with asking for a Facebook (unless it's a job connection, which is different in my head).

I'm also always willing to explain the basics of whatever dorky thing I'm into! Like guitars and Led Zepellin. Grin

StrangePanda wrote:
I'm talking about when someone wants to have a conversation with me that may or may not be flirting. I'm not talking about harassement. Unwanted attention is  when people catcall me on the streets, when proposing me sex out of nowhere, when making sexual comments about my appearance ("nice tits", "hey sexy"), when not leaving me alone after I say I'm not interested, when keep messaging me on OLD if I don't respond to your messages, when I'm not smiling  and look frightened and you don't stop.
You can tell if a girl is not enthusiastic: she answers in a monosyllabic, she doesn't ask you questions at all and keeps responding to yours in a very dry style, such as "yes" or "no". She looks a little bit scared. She looks at the door or for the way to escape. She ignores you.
Generaly, if a girl doesn't do any effort to keep the conversation going, she is not interested.
Unwanted attention is not when we're having a conversation and I respond to you.

Pretty much I agree with this and I tend to think that most girls I've run into are [probably] uninterested anyway so I don't bother trying as much as I should. Razz

nearly_takuan wrote:

Ah, okay. Never mind, then; false alarm: I haven't neglected anyone after all and it's possible Mikey hasn't either.

Wait, what haven't I neglected? scratch

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Post by nearly_takuan on Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:46 pm

Seemed to me there was some sighing over Dudes Who Don't Approach and alleged reasons for that, but as long as Panda understands we aren't mind-readers I think we're okay.
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Post by StrangePanda on Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:55 pm

It's alright, Nearly_Takuan, I'm glad we understood each other! I was sighing about Dudes Who Think That If They Approach In A Respectful Way, It's The Same As Creeping. It's not.  It was a sad sigh, not angry or reproaching.

Mikey, I believe that one can approach me and respect my boundaries at the same time. If I'm a new person in your circle of People Doing Dorky Things, I will never think it's unwanted attention if you start with "Hi, I'm Mikey, I see that you're new here?". Or if I'm at a convention and looking at something interesting and you're like "Oh I like $Thing too! It's really nice, don't you think?". If I don't want to have a conversation, I'll answer short "yeah" and that's it.
You can totally go up to me and say something friendly. I don't believe in aggressive flirting right off the bat, but I believe that friendly and respectful attention is the way to do.  Smile

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Post by KMR on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:56 pm

I second what StrangePanda says and would add that whenever a guy starts up a conversation with me like that, I generally don't even register it as being a possible approach. Now maybe it's because I've been in a lot of male-dominated spaces and NOT been hit on, like, almost ever. But whatever the reason, I just don't have the mindset of, "He's a man and I'm a woman, so he's probably trying to hit on me." I just think of it as one person trying to get to know another person. Whether it leads to anything beyond a brief friendly chat would depend on what kind of connection I feel with that person, but that initial approach is not a problem at all.

Going into a male-dominated space may be intimidating for some women, but on the other hand, if a woman is used to being in those kinds of spaces, she's probably used to socializing with men there in friendly ways and would not be put off if you tried to start up a conversation.
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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:45 pm

StrangePanda wrote:
Mikey, I believe that one can approach me and respect my boundaries at the same time. If I'm a new person in your circle of People Doing Dorky Things, I will never think it's unwanted attention if you start with "Hi, I'm Mikey, I see that you're new here?". Or if I'm at a convention and looking at something interesting and you're like "Oh I like $Thing too! It's really nice, don't you think?". If I don't want to have a conversation, I'll answer short "yeah" and that's it.
You can totally go up to me and say something friendly. I don't believe in aggressive flirting right off the bat, but I believe that friendly and respectful attention is the way to do.  Smile

When I volunteered at my local library running D&D games, that's pretty close to what I'd say to new players whatever their age or gender. Grin At conventions (well, i go mostly to SD Comic-Con), I'm usually there by myself and I'll make small talk with those around me and folks tend to be pretty friendly.

I may or may not go up to you depending on how brave I'm feeling. Razz But rest assured, I will always be friendly.

KMR wrote:I second what StrangePanda says and would add that whenever a guy starts up a conversation with me like that, I generally don't even register it as being a possible approach. Now maybe it's because I've been in a lot of male-dominated spaces and NOT been hit on, like, almost ever. But whatever the reason, I just don't have the mindset of, "He's a man and I'm a woman, so he's probably trying to hit on me." I just think of it as one person trying to get to know another person. Whether it leads to anything beyond a brief friendly chat would depend on what kind of connection I feel with that person, but that initial approach is not a problem at all.

Given my background, I certainly almost always hope that I'm not giving the impression that I am trying to hit on somebody, or flirt with them either. Upon initial meetings, usually I'm just trying to be friendly, nothing more, nothing less and that's the truth. Wink

KMR wrote:
Going into a male-dominated space may be intimidating for some women, but on the other hand, if a woman is used to being in those kinds of spaces, she's probably used to socializing with men there in friendly ways and would not be put off if you tried to start up a conversation.

Which is why I *personally* try to be as friendly as possible to women who join any game I'm in. If they've been around a lot of dudes or in dude-spaces for a long time then I'm probably not gonna worry about it too much. A lot of these are my own hangups because I'm trying to avoid stepping on any potential landmines.

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