Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:45 am

Everyone else has said everything better than I ever could, but I'm proof of guys liking tall girls if that helps in any way, shape or form. Myself being a below average height guy.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by reboot on Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:50 am

StrangePanda wrote:I appreciate all your advice, thanks again Grin
Reboot: well, I think it's both. I never had any success with men and I never talked about it with my friends so I decided to finally write here because obviously I do something wrong (or I'm just plain disgusting Laughing ) but I don't quite know what's wrong... And yeah, there is a guy I find cute but we don't know each other very well (I met him several times when hanging out at a friend's place and we talked but if I don't do the effort he doesn't talk to me). I'm not madly in love with him, I just find him cute but sadly I don't think he really sees me as a romanthic possibility because he treats me as another guy in the room).
Autumnflame, nearly_takuan: I'm a bit confused, I need to do some efforts for my posture / confidence / clothing / socializing, but if I do so, I will scare boys away? Sad What is better, leave things as they are or working at improving myself knowing that it'll make me more intimidating? I understand what you're trying to say but I don't know how to find the right amount of "be better but not too much".

Personally, I think make the improvements in appearance (e.g. good posture, Autumnflame's clothes/style recvomendations) and then dial up the flirting. Changes to your appearance will get you noticed and a warm, friendly, flirty demeanor will reduce the intimidation factor. The articles linked in an earlier post will help beef up your flirting. Besides, many men are likely too intimidated to ask ANY woman out directly, so the changes to your appearance will not change that.

As for the man you find attractive, this is a perfect chance to practice some more intense flirting and to make it clear you are not "one of the guys". I suggest some stronger flirting signals the next few times you see him and then inviting him to do something 1:1. NOT a date, just a hang out to talk to him more. It does not sound like you know him that well yet. If 1:1 is too intimidating, try a small (3-4) people group activity, like a game night.

StrangePanda wrote:I don't think I really have the possibility to become "out of their league" because I can't change my face and my height, and even my body can't look hot because despite my efforts in the previous years I never been able to actually have an attractive  body (unless engaging in some really destructive eating habits).
What bothers me the most is that there are numerous people who said to me: "wait, you're constantly hanging out with boys, you're at a STEM school and yet there was no one interested in you all that time? That's impossible!" and I really have no excuse for this unless I am really ugly, and it makes me feel shitty (it's not to mention my self-esteem is now so low it's on the floor level...)
But I'm rambling right now, I know.
The last week I had a conversation with a close friend (a guy), we were talking about relationships / sex and he said to me that for guys it's very hard to find someone if they don't approach but girls have more chances to do little and still manage to find a boyfriend and that it's virtually impossible for a girl to be a virgin / a relationship virgin past the mid-twenties unless she is disabled physically/mentally, has a very physical default, is very very shy or unless she refuses to date plain and simple. While I know that my friend didn't intend to make me feel sad (he doesn't actually know that I never had someone) and he is very kind and understanding, it made me feel....well, you know how. I did try to smile and to continue the conversation but the moment I left him I started to cry because I was feeling like damaged goods and unloveable and ugly. Even if he himself does not believe that a girl can be normal / not morbidly ugly or anti-social and still be never approached, well I don't know... It's not the first time I hear this idea and it leaves me a depressed mess...
The point is, I don't know how to feel good enough if all points to me not being good enough for someone to find me dateable. Sorry for the rambling. I just feel myself to be too weird to tell this to someone irl.  I feel tears coming to my eyes as I type this.

(I know this post doesn't really relate to what you all wrote me as an advice, I just wanted to get it off my chest because it hurts so much...)

Oh honey, we have all been there. There is nothing that makes you feel less like a woman than to be told how easy it is for any woman to get a date or how easy it is for women and you can not get anyone to notice you *hugs - if you are a hugging type*. I agree that your jerk brain is talking on this one and suggest next time you have someone say something like that to you, tell them you have never been approached. Only by coming out of the shadows on this can it be shown that "normal" women struggle with dating.

reboot
reboot
Moderator of "Other Relationships" and "Gender, Identity and Society"

Posts : 2514
Reputation : 1005
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by BasedBuzzed on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:46 am

Thread hop go!

Others have said this better, but question if you think you're destined for perpetual foreveraloneness: is there a thing on the list of what-you-can-do-to-make-yourself-more-attractive that doesn't have benefits of its own even if the foreveralone sentiment would hold true(which it doesn't)?

From dressing better to finding your personal style, from becoming more outgoing and learning the skills to strike up a conversation with strangers, from cultivating interesting hobbies to exercising and eating better, from learning empathy and finding out the fallacies in your own thinking, what is this list that is not worthy to pursue in and off itself?

_________________
Pompeii, VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1904: "O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed that you have not already collapsed in ruin."
BasedBuzzed
BasedBuzzed

Posts : 811
Reputation : 267
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Jayce on Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:50 am

StrangePanda wrote:
2. I'm not a girly girl. I wear mostly jeans + t-shirt (plain or cute/funny). Sometimes I wear dresses or skirts but I am more comfortable when dressed in sporty / casual / geeky clothes. I like leather and denim things, occasionally lace. But mostly I wear simple clothes. My posture is not great because I am a tall girl (5'10").
3. I never asked men out because I don't have courage for it Sad . I flirt mostly like this: try to be often around this person, talk with him, smile often when looking at him , tell my lame jokes, laugh at his jokes. I often look at him when we are speaking or just being in the same room.  If we know each other for a while, I do hugs and the kiss on the cheek thing when saying hello. Oh and I can often be found with a face like a red tomato and smiling for no reason -_-

It's hard to ask people out, the first time I tried it, I had stuttered phrasing and even forgot to use the word date, and had to put in an extra sentence afterwards "by the way, I'm asking you out on a date". And there were many times before that when I was too scared to ask another person out. Women asking men out are not really part of our cultural narrative so its pretty normal. I have a female friend who is one of the most out going, extroverted woman out there, yet one time when she liked a guy and I told her to ask him out, she was like" Noo, I can't ask him out, it just dosen't work that way". She didn't believe it even existed as an option for women to ask guys out.

The hovering strategy is ok, it tells the other person ( at least someone who has some interpretation skills) that you like to be around them, that you enjoy their presence, the jokes and smiling helps out with that as well, to make it an effective combo. As a guy I can vouch that the hovering strategy does work on me, to an extent, it makes me feel what I described above. Dosen't directly ping the "she likes me signals" BUT it does ping the "she might like me" signals. The kiss and hug thing is done by some of my traditionally cultured European friends of both genders, so that would probably not seem like flirting.

Personally I like to think, if someone feels intimidated then its their problem, unless your intentionally intimidating them. Not yours. Speaking from personal experience, I used to feel extremely intimidated by any woman who I felt attracted to, so I missed many opportunities to approach or ask people out. But that was my issue. So if that ends up happening, it's not your fault.

Another strategy that works effectively on me that has been sort of discussed: If you're not comfortable asking out the guy yourself, you can instead position him in a comfortable spot, so maybe he can ask you out, if he was interested. The most common way to do this is of course flirting, but in addition to that you can make the other person feel more comfortable and relaxed (maybe make a point to talk about your similarities). Validating the other person can help with that too (think about what you believe is cool about him, and tell him about it and why you think that way). Although all the women I've flirted with didn't use those things as flirting strategies and they were just being friendly, it did work effectively, it made me feel, "Hey I can totally ask her out!" instead of the usual "I'm a bit nervous, but I'm going to be brave, I'm going to ask her out". Some guys that feel scared, might not be able to make that leap of bravery. It's not up to you to bring them out of their fears, so it might be a big burden to do all of that just in the hopes that he might get over his fears and ask you out. But it can work.

As for tall girls, I'm from Australia where the average height for men is taller than me, and there are plenty of woman taller than me as well and there are those that are shorter that wear heels so they end up taller than me. I encounter taller women somewhat often, and would be more than happy to date a taller woman and yes in the beginning I was intimidated because I don't know if its likely that they would like me but that was my problem.

I just want to say, I'm sorry, that your hearing the women have it easier thing. I used to be a believer of that myth when I didn't know any better. I don't like how there's other people telling you that just because you're surrounded by guys in STEM you would have landed one by now. I study education in university. Education is filled with women. Last semester, in one of my classes I was the only guy. If someone told me I should not even be single by now because I'm surrounded by all the ladies in education I would feel insulted, like I must be somehow extremely unattractive because it should be soooo easy for me. I don't just want any girl, you wouldn't just want any guy right? Whether you're surrounded by masses of the opposite gender dosen't automatically make it easy, because you still want to find someone that you like.

I feel like there is one question we haven't asked, is what kind of guys are you into? What are your standards? For example if you value extroversion and confidence highly, you might find less of that in STEM classes as opposed to say, parties and bars. Or if you're into musculature, joining a team sport can help you meet more of those people. Or if you would love to have a guy who's into science fiction you might find more of them in geek culture clubs in university.

Jayce

Posts : 211
Reputation : 66
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Autumnflame on Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:09 pm

StrangePanda wrote:Autumnflame, nearly_takuan: I'm a bit confused, I need to do some efforts for my posture / confidence / clothing / socializing, but if I do so, I will scare boys away? Sad What is better, leave things as they are or working at improving myself knowing that it'll make me more intimidating? I understand what you're trying to say but I don't know how to find the right amount of "be better but not too much".

nearly_takuan wrote:
Because really, there are at least two problems you're encountering.

The first is that men don't seem to notice you. I think that unfortunately in a lot of cases that is probably because you don't conform to expectations/ideals of feminine beauty etc. That sucks, but the external expectations are not really something we can influence (which also sucks).

The second is that men don't ask you out. This is almost as much of a problem as the first problem, if I'm right in assuming that you currently feel very strongly that you don't want to be the one to ask.

...

There are no wrong choices here, really; there are options that require more or less effort, and there are options that are more or less likely to get you a certain number of dates, and there may be options that feel more or less true to your self-identity. You kind of have to decide for yourself what feels right.

I think NT's breakdown sums it up pretty neatly. Though I would never ever ever ever say "be better, but not too much" -- it's just a plain and simple "be better." There is no "too much." When has someone ever been called "too awesome?" (Jokingly, yeah, but if someone is incredibly rad, that's never a liability.) It is also undeniable that becoming more awesome may have the side effect of making people take more notice, but also make some feel more intimidated about approaching because of their own self-esteem issues (which is not your responsibility to manage).

HOWEVER: those two sets are not necessarily going to be perfectly overlapping circles in the Venn diagram. There'll be people who notice you but aren't intimidated, there'll be people who notice but are intimidated, there'll be people who won't notice a damn thing. My personal recommendation is to do the thing that gets you more notice, then work on approaching so that it doesn't matter if some people are intimidated - you don't have to wait around for them to get off their ass and come to you. (But my personality shakes out such that I prefer to approach, anyway. It's very freeing, I recommend it - but to be fair, YMMV.)

StrangePanda wrote:I don't think I really have the possibility to become "out of their league" because I can't change my face and my height, and even my body can't look hot because despite my efforts in the previous years I never been able to actually have an attractive  body (unless engaging in some really destructive eating habits).


Werel wrote:Hey StrangePanda, I think others' advice has been really good, but I want to add a couple things:

1) Being tall doesn't make you unattractive*. C'mon girl, models are tall. As a fellow tall lady (okay, 1" shorter than you), please don't believe that junk-- it'll make you shrink into yourself in ways that are way more unattractive than being able to reach things on the top grocery shelf. Same with being overweight-- yeah, it'll narrow the pool of guys who might find you physically attractive, but there's a sizeable pool left over. You think there's a constant flood of BBW porn being produced for nobody? Wink

2) That's one of those beliefs which you hear all the time from dudes (and some women), especially if you hang out in corners of the internet which discuss dating. And guess what? Like many common beliefs, it's just not true. Full stop. Not true, and also hurtful, misguided, and damaging. I know women who lost their virginity in or after their mid-20s, and they're normal human women with friends and cool jobs and fun lives and, in some cases, conventionally attractive bodies.

You're not damaged goods or unloveable or ugly just because a given set of sexual/romantic experiences hasn't happened to you yet. I know that's much easier to hear than to believe, but I hope hearing it from several people will help counteract some of the stupid hurtful messages like the one you got from your friend.

Seconding all of this. Collapsing in on yourself and trying to hide is a worse option than standing tall and claiming your Amazonian roots. Be Wonder Woman. I don't really want to have to list off all the happy tall ladies I know, including the tall ladies who are married or paired up with men shorter than them (particularly since the names/examples won't mean anything to you except "some people Autumnflame mentioned"), but trust me, they're there. Similarly with all the friends I have who are around my age (late twenties/early thirties) who have not yet had any sexual experience, and one of whom had her first and only experience at 30, fairly recently.

BasedBuzzed wrote:From dressing better to finding your personal style, from becoming more outgoing and learning the skills to strike up a conversation with strangers, from cultivating interesting hobbies to exercising and eating better, from learning empathy and finding out the fallacies in your own thinking, what is this list that is not worthy to pursue in and off itself?

Ultimately, my main point is this. Even if you do end up never finding anyone, if you've done the work and become more stylish, more capable of socializing, more fit, more self-aware and secure in yourself - how is any of that bad?
Autumnflame
Autumnflame

Posts : 181
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile http://priscillakim.carbonmade.com

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Gentleman Johnny on Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:27 pm

Going to take another quick pass here. First off, Amazon Squad (the women in the cast who are 5'10" and up) gets a lot of attention. Yes, tall women can be intimidating. They can also be stop you in your tracks stunning. The one who uses the stage name "Amazon" is 6' tall without shoes and loves heels. When I first met her, I was at an event. She came up behind me asking about joining the show because she had been stalking us on Facebook. I turned around. . .and looked up. . .and up. . . and spent a good two or three seconds just speechless before I could get together a yes. She met her boyfriend that weekend (one of two guys at the event who was 6'4"+) and has been with him ever since.

Second, one of the things that always comes out of getting someone new ready for the stage is this: figure out who your idealized, superhero version of yourself is and own it. Take the things that you think make you cool and dial them up to 11. Take the things that other people notice about you and weaponize them. Are you an amazon engineer? Rock that Steampunk vest and Victorian heeled boots. Are you the flirty femme fatale bond girl? Red red red red red.
Doc really explains this one better than I do: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2015/01/nerds-male-privilege-nerds-behaving-badly/#idc-cover

You're not hopeless. You'e not playing catch up. You are where you are and today is the first day you can do something to work towards where you want to be.

_________________
Gentleman Johnny
Not John Galt
Gentleman Johnny
Gentleman Johnny

Posts : 555
Reputation : 213
Join date : 2014-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:41 pm

As you have seen from other people posting here, you can find yourself to be attractive and still find no success. I'm not claiming to say that "inner beauty" is the end-all of attracting people, but establishing that first is crucial, because even the most attractive person can be ignored if they're a horrible human being otherwise.

Advantage here: this does not seem to be your problem. Your problem, instead, is simply not being able to draw attention to yourself.

Now, this isn't really a "sexual" thing, nor am I suggesting that you act like an openly sexual person if that's not who you are. If it is and you're just repressing yourself, then find ways to let that person out (I honestly don't know how).

Added disadvantage since you're a girl, presumably American (please let me know if I'm wrong): America is not known for liking women who are openly flirtatious people. American men have a tendency to misinterpret that as genuine interest. Some women enjoy flirting to flirt, you don't seem like that, no problem either way.

So the only other thing I can think of is simply to do something you're not going to like very much: being social in a way you're not used to. And I've found that the best way to be social towards people you don't know is to repeatedly comment on a situation you both identify with in the present moment. You're literally starting conversations as if you're already best friends. It's not like a "I'm so cool and you should talk to me" kind of vibe, you're not acting holier-than-thou, as if your very lifeforce is enough to make people magically love you. Neither of us has the self-esteem to do that, and people with that kind of self-esteem are called narcissists, so no, don't do that.

Instead, it's just like a "man you totally get where I'm coming from, right?" kinda conversation. Let's say in class, you make a comment to someone like "geez, how the hell am I even going to figure out this problem, man?" Something related to class, not an introduction, you act as if you already know the person pretty well. Now the secret that makes establishing a friendship far easier than establishing a relationship is that people are not closed off to making friends. As long as you have basic hygiene and fashion sense (read: clean clothes), you will get a positive response 9/10 times.

Now because these are STEM guys and they're infinitely shy motherfuckers (even if you think they're cute), you're gonna have to be the initiator. It's not fair, but that's the way it is. I don't know how to hit on guys. Openly stating your interest immediately isn't smart. The myth that men will respond positively to any sexual advance from a woman, even if they want to, is horseshit. We're so used to being rejected that we will assume you're kidding, or we'll get mad, or insecure, or worse. Establish that rapport before you try that. Flirt with people. I don't really know how to flirt, so I can't help you with that.

Anyway, hope that was helpful.

And also, one last thing regarding physical appearance: I dunno if this applies to dudes, but there's been quite a few women I've met who were overweight (one was actually obese) who I was actually mindblowingly attracted to. Let out the kind of person you're being on this forum and as long as you can see your own feet, fellas will be interested in you.

Plus once you find out how a lot of conventionally attractive women get that way, and what happens to them once life catches up to them, the smart guys go for the unconventionally attractive people. And the thought of them naked, physical flaws and all, will turn them the hell on. And it's not just an "overweight" thing, naturally skinny girls have the same issues. But either way, your best option is to be as wildly insane as possible, people's opinions be damned, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. I can say this confidently as a fella: nothing drives me more wild than a chick who is different and doesn't give a fuck.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by nearly_takuan on Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:18 pm

Glides wrote:
And also, one last thing regarding physical appearance: I dunno if this applies to dudes, but there's been quite a few women I've met who were overweight (one was actually obese) who I was actually mindblowingly attracted to. Let out the kind of person you're being on this forum and as long as you can see your own feet, fellas will be interested in you.

And even if you can't. Seriously. Other judgy caveats also not needed. For example:

Plus once you find out how a lot of conventionally attractive women get that way, and what happens to them once life catches up to them, the smart guys go for the unconventionally attractive people. And the thought of them naked, physical flaws and all, will turn them the hell on. And it's not just an "overweight" thing, naturally skinny girls have the same issues. But either way, your best option is to be as wildly insane as possible, people's opinions be damned, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. I can say this confidently as a fella: nothing drives me more wild than a chick who is different and doesn't give a fuck.

I think at least some of this can be explained without creating antagonistic categories like "conventionally attractive" and "unconventionally attractive" and "unattractive". To me what makes a noticeable difference is when a woman knows who she is and owns it. Maybe some of the "conventionally attractive" folks are such because of underlying insecurities and destructive habits, and maybe that is what you meant by "how they got that way", but I do not think it is fair to protect that assumption onto everyone.

As for being "wildly insane"... not so sure that's a great idea, unless that already sounds like behavior you'd like to try.
nearly_takuan
nearly_takuan

Posts : 1069
Reputation : 456
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by StrangePanda on Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:29 pm

It really really warms my heart that you give me your advice and support, I honestly didn't think people will respond that much because wherever I ask for advice people IRL I hear "lose weight", "just wait for the right person", or just no answear at all, 'cause many people with a dating life can't really say what they do specifically, it just works for them and they don't pay attention to what they do (does it make any sense what am I saying?).

Alright, now I will try to respond to what you're saying Smile
First of all, do anyone know how to flirt "obviously" but not to give that idea that because I'm flirting with you it means you can expect "free sex" from me? There is nothing wrong with casual sex, but it's not what I want right now and I have this fear that a guy may flirt back just because he thinks it's an invitation to sex without actually liking me as a person. Can it happen? What can I do to prevent this type of situations? *I'm not implying all that guys want from girls is sex! That would be rude and sexist. I'm talking about how to recognize such situations and avoid them.

Another question: my flirting is way too subtle but what do you consider less subtle without throwing myself on guys? Like, imagine a girl is flirting with you (if you're into girls), what does she do?


Last edited by StrangePanda on Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

StrangePanda

Posts : 51
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2015-01-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by StrangePanda on Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:46 pm

Guys, I really have to buy flash cards and start to write on them the things you write here  for when I'm feeling like an unloveable mess  Lovestruck

Wisp: Thank you for your hug! I give you hugs too because I know you're in the same Boat Of Loneliness and because Internet hugs are awesome Shiny/thrilled

OneTrueGuest: Thanks for sharing your experience because IRL I never met a girl who I considered conventionnally atractive and who stayed a virgin into her mid-twenties (unless they were hiding it because I can imagine what kind of pressure it must have been: not only you're a late bloomer like some sort of a rare unicorn but also you have a good appereance so some people can say mean things like "what's wrong with you, you're pretty!" !). I think I have rarely said explicitly that I'm a virgin because at my age you're expected to not be and I feel like I have to justify why. It's like there are two reactions: people look at you as if you were a dinosaur or people say "oh wow, you're saving yourself for Your True Love, I admire that" and I don't know what to respond to that because all of it is not true for me. Now I just pretend I'm not a virgin anymore.

ggobsessed: I don't know how to dress more sexy and still be recognized for my brains too. I fear that if I start suddenly wear more feminine things I will not be taken seriously (especially at school). And, besides, what do you consider sexy? I'm not a very feminine gal and if I just copy what more fashion oriented girls are wearing I will feel  like a giraffe in a dress.

Jayce:  I like smart geeky dudes who don't act like they know it all and look at you condescendingly for not being as smart as they are. I like dudes who make witty conversations and can laugh with you and discuss serious things too. Physically, I've been attracted to all kinds of dudes so I can't really tell you who is my type there. I do appreciate when a guy is into sci-fi, being myself really into this!  Sadly, there is no geek culture clubs in my school... By the way, I do see a lot of extrovert and confident guys in my university, it's that I don't know how to make them notice me, they're usually surrounded by other confident and cool girls / boys and I'm feeling like who am I to make them notice me? Although I'm not specifically into extrovert or introvert types, it depends on the person I guess...

Gentleman Johnny: an amazon engineer, I totally like it! Laughing I like these strong and badass female heroines in sci-fi movies and books, you know the kind of girl who can kick ass and is not here just for the decoration? Like the kind who can totally create a deadly robot by herself, use guns, fly a spaceship and save the world?


Last edited by StrangePanda on Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total

StrangePanda

Posts : 51
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2015-01-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Gentleman Johnny on Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:00 pm

I tend to be  bit theatrical but Amazon really does wear Steampunk outfits with 4" heels. Are you in the hardare/software end of STEM or more the hard science? So, it might feel like acting at first but based on everything that's come up so far here's a thought:
Go a little bad ass. Not like "biker chick" bad ass but hero it up a bit. Throw a little more innuendo into your flirting. The more geeky or STEM in-joke you can go, the better. If you're on the busty side (and I find it difficult to imagine a tall woman worried about her weight who isn't), maybe leave that top button open and wear a tank top under your main top. Think the best bits of Kaylee and Zoe Washburn.

Warning: Gentleman Johnny is not a woman, does not have women's dating problems and is VERY theatrical. This is something I'd respond to A LOT but I can't make promises for how your peer group will take it.

Edit: Oops, forgot my nerdy innuendo training video

_________________
Gentleman Johnny
Not John Galt
Gentleman Johnny
Gentleman Johnny

Posts : 555
Reputation : 213
Join date : 2014-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Autumnflame on Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:45 pm

StrangePanda wrote:
First of all, do anyone know how to flirt "obviously" but not to give that idea that because I'm flirting with you it means you can expect "free sex" from me? There is nothing wrong with casual sex, but it's not what I want right now and I have this fear that a guy may flirt back just because he thinks it's an invitation to sex without actually liking me as a person. Can it happen? What can I do to prevent this type of situations? *I'm not implying all that guys want from girls is sex! That would be rude and sexist. I'm talking about how to recognize such situations and avoid them.

It absolutely can happen, but unfortunately there's no way to flirt "obviously" without potentially running into that scenario, just like there's no way to drive without risking an accident. You can control your own actions, but you can't control how other people choose to take it, even when your actions are entirely reasonable (as flirting without intent is; there's nothing about flirting that automatically means you have to have sex, after all, and anyone who thinks so is being ludicrous).

So there's no preventing someone from taking things the wrong way, in the way you don't mean, but you can stay alert for signs that it's happening and disengage if you see it happening. The easiest way to avoid it is to be good at reading their signals. Do they seem interested and actually respond to what you say in a thoughtful, engaged fashion? Do they ask about you and seem to enjoy your company even if nothing sexual is happening? Are they continually pushing you for sex or sexual innuendo and don't back off even if you express your discomfort, or even if they do for a moment, they return quickly to doing it again? Do they whine if you lay down a boundary ("I'm not comfortable with anything more than kissing right now," for example) and try to nag or shame you into doing more? I'm sure others can come up with other examples of red flags in behavior. If you see those flags, it's a good idea to start distancing yourself.

On the other hand, if someone expresses desire politely without being pushy, backs off if you express a boundary and doesn't whine about it, seems as interested in what you have to say and what you're about as what's under your clothes, those are good signs.


Another question: my flirting is way too subtle but what do you consider less subtle without throwing myself on guys? Like, imagine a girl is flirting with you (if you're into girls), what does she do?

Lots of attention, lots of smiling, leaning in close, body oriented toward the target of affection, laughing at their jokes, light brushes of contact (fingers resting on forearm or shoulder, touching a hand briefly to emphasize a point in discussion), buying them drinks, playing with hair, sort of orbiting around them (not literally, but basically returning back to them multiple times over the course of an evening - this is to avoid being glued awkwardly to their side, but still showing your interest), looking them in the eyes, telling them things that happened that made you think of them (if you have an ongoing acquaintanceship), etc. etc. etc.  The doc's written quite a few articles on how to pick up interest from a woman, like this one.

Um. Unfortunately there's also a lot of nuance and subtlety to it, which is hard to convey in just words. I mean, there's a difference between flirty eye contact, friendly eye contact and neutral/polite eye contact (lots of margin of error, admittedly, but I maintain there is a difference), and I have no idea how to describe it. Flirty touch is probably the easiest and most obvious to enact, though you can alternate it with wandering off to talk to someone else if you're worried about appearing like you're throwing yourself at them.

There's also the method Neil Gaiman recommends:

Gaiman wrote:
birdartpoetry asked: Mister Gaiman, you’re kickass. I was just wondering, what do you think is the best way to seduce a writer? I figured your answer would be pretty spectacular.

In my experience, writers tend to be really good at the inside of their own heads and imaginary people, and a lot less good at the stuff going on outside, which means that quite often if you flirt with us we will completely fail to notice, leaving everybody involved slightly uncomfortable and more than slightly unlaid.

So I would suggest that any attempted seduction of a writer would probably go a great deal easier for all parties if you sent them a cheerful note saying “YOU ARE INVITED TO A SEDUCTION: Please come to dinner on Friday Night. Wear the kind of clothes you would like to be seduced in.”

And alcohol may help, too. Or kissing. Many writers figure out that they’re being seduced or flirted with if someone is actually kissing them.

StrangePanda wrote:
ggobsessed: I don't know how to dress more sexy and still be recognized for my brains too. I fear that if I start suddenly wear more feminine things I will not be taken seriously (especially at school).


This is always a risk. Yay, being a woman. :/ Easiest way to dress appropriately for appropriate venues. At school and work would be more professional, while casual off-hours can be more feminine and flirty.

And, besides, what do you consider sexy? I'm not a very feminine gal and if I just copy what more fashion oriented girls are wearing I will feel like a giraffe in a dress.

What do you consider sexy?
Autumnflame
Autumnflame

Posts : 181
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile http://priscillakim.carbonmade.com

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by StrangePanda on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:27 pm

Autumnflame: Thanks for your suggestions Smile I think I understand what you're saying about flirting and I believe that my biggest difficulty is that while in my head I do have an idea how to be more playful with a guy but in reality I just can't bring myself to actually show my interest to someone  because I have veeeeery little confidence that this person could actually like me too. I mean I feel like a second choice especially if there are other girls in the room because if I were a guy I wouldn't hit on me. If there are two girls who seem nice and I, as a guy, have a choice between these two I would surely  choose to flirt with the pretty one? I do not blame other girls to be prettier than me and I know we're not in a competition, but I feel like wherever I'm socializing at the moment guys don't pay attention to me as a girl. There were so many times men were orbiting around my girl friends and I was left unnoticed like I'm not even remotely attractive. It really sucks to see my crush looking all the damn time at my friend and not at me when I was actively trying to flirt with him.

For your question about what I consider sexy, I do have an image in my head but I can't imagine wearing that because it'll be ridiculous on me with my fat tummy and thunder thighs. I guess a lacy top with a reasonably short skirt and knee socks; skinny jeans with a loose shirt showing off one shoulder; a low-neckline top with simple black pants; these are some examples  in my thoughts. I do not think it'll look good on me though...

StrangePanda

Posts : 51
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2015-01-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:47 pm

StrangePanda wrote:
For your question about what I consider sexy, I do have an image in my head but I can't imagine wearing that because it'll be ridiculous on me with my fat tummy and thunder thighs. I guess a lacy top with a reasonably short skirt and knee socks; skinny jeans with a loose shirt showing off one shoulder; a low-neckline top with simple black pants; these are some examples  in my thoughts. I do not think it'll look good on me though...

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 WasUpro

All those actually sound unbelievably cute.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Enail on Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:57 pm

StrangePanda wrote:For your question about what I consider sexy, I do have an image in my head but I can't imagine wearing that because it'll be ridiculous on me with my fat tummy and thunder thighs. I guess a lacy top with a reasonably short skirt and knee socks; skinny jeans with a loose shirt showing off one shoulder; a low-neckline top with simple black pants; these are some examples  in my thoughts. I do not think it'll look good on me though...

These sound like good starting points - if you've got a sense of things you like, you can play around in that realm to find stuff that suits your body. I tend to think it works best to focus on emphasizing features that you do like about yourself rather than ones you don't, but it's also important to wear things you can feel comfortable in (even if that takes a little getting used to), so if that means thinking a little about how to play down the stuff you don't like, that's very doable as well.
Enail
Enail
Admin

Posts : 4003
Reputation : 2223
Join date : 2014-09-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Autumnflame on Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:20 am

StrangePanda wrote:For your question about what I consider sexy, I do have an image in my head but I can't imagine wearing that because it'll be ridiculous on me with my fat tummy and thunder thighs. I guess a lacy top with a reasonably short skirt and knee socks; skinny jeans with a loose shirt showing off one shoulder; a low-neckline top with simple black pants; these are some examples  in my thoughts. I do not think it'll look good on me though...

That last sounds like a good place to start from - if you're self-conscious about your stomach and thighs, the slim black pants will downplay your legs, and the low-cut top will emphasize your cleavage (to whatever degree you wish) and draw attention to it rather than your stomach. But seriously, any of those looks would work - fashion done well looks good on everyone. Smile

Here's some amazing stuff I rustled up just by Googling "fat fashion."

Fuck Yeah Chubby Fashion

Fat in the City

Fabulously Fat Fashion

The "fatshion" tag on Fat Fashion (since she reblogs a lot of other stuff as well)

I hear you about feeling too shy or self-conscious to blatantly flirt - that was me all through high school (where my idea of "flirting" was "steal surreptitious glances, but refuse to talk to someone for fear they'd find out I liked them"). This is kind of why I started off with recommending working on other aspects of your self-perception. I feel like feeling good in clothes tends to make one feel good in general, which seeps out subtly to other aspects of oneself - demeanor, carriage, interaction with others, etc. It's easier to feel brave when you feel like you look great in a really well-put-together outfit.
Autumnflame
Autumnflame

Posts : 181
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile http://priscillakim.carbonmade.com

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Herr R on Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:39 am

As a guy in the same boat as you (only I'm in my mid-30's, so imagine how that must feel!) I feel your pain.

However, as a guy who is on a personal quest to purge himself of all emotion and become a humanoid robot of some sort, I can't help but want to give you hug, for some reason.

Herr R

Posts : 62
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by StrangePanda on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:16 am

Herr R: LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY. Even if this is not something related to this topic, I simply must tell you. Never ever ever wish to get rid of your emotions. It's something I spent a lot of time wishing for and I relate to this. Yes, I know our situation sucks and it's painfully and you wish you were just numb and emotionless. I wished I wasn't depressed because of small things and reacting way too sensitive to criticism. In addition to feeling pain all the time, I wished I was emotionless because as a woman I often got this idea from our society that I'm overly emotional BECAUSE HORMONS (btw it's not true but I'm not here to discuss biology) and that it make us women weak. So you now have an idea why I wanted to not being sensitive at all.
However, I once met a professor who did a lecture on artificial intelligence (it was his domain of expertise) and he was saying that people have a lot of struggle with making a really truly AI because we haven't yet found a way to make some sort of emotional pattern in robots. Without emotions, he said, our brain will not be able to form a sentient decision because it's our emotions and experience who dictate our free will. It really made me re-think about what it means to be an emotional being and why it's crucial to forming rational decisions. Just think about this wonder of Nature. Your emotions are not here to make you suffer, they are here because you couldn't function without them.
Secondly, I'm forever and ever grateful for my sensitivity for playing a big role in how much I enjoy music / films / litterature. Without them I really doubt I could enjoy so much these amazing things. Yeah I often feel sad but in the same time I'm often so overwhelmed (positively) by art and nature and animals that I think it's worth it.

***Hey everyone, I am really sorry for this long post not really related to topic but I couldn't not say it because it is so important to me you have no idea.***

And Herr R, I give you a big hug too.

StrangePanda

Posts : 51
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2015-01-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Herr R on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:38 am

While I think that the whole AI and logic vs. emotion argument would be a great discussion to have, you're right. This isn't the topic for that. What matters is that it's good that you're finding the support you're looking for here. I know that besides my family and some IRL people close to me, I can't really tell people about my problems, just like you. Although me being a guy, it's because "I'm a guy and a guy does the chasing". Yeah, fucked up. I know. I totally think that a singles bar for the socially awkward, nerdy and non-conventionally attractive would totally make bank.

(By the way, from the way you describe yourself, if I was still in college, maybe a bit younger (if you aren't into older guys), I was smarter and maybe a bit taller (I'm 5'9" myself), then I would totally love to be approached by someone like you!)

Herr R

Posts : 62
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Jayce on Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:58 am

StrangePanda wrote: By the way, I do see a lot of extrovert and confident guys in my university, it's that I don't know how to make them notice me, they're usually surrounded by other confident and cool girls / boys and I'm feeling like who am I to make them notice me?

Well if you don't know them very well, they seem intimidating, and you're going off on what little you know about them, this exercise might help.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f38/19/02/53/59/img_1310.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f38/19/02/53/59/img_0112.jpg

Here's two photos of me, the first one is me at home, I was studying and I just wanted to take a photo to see what I look like with my glasses on in a photo (I never take photos with my glasses, nor do I wear them unless I'm trying to read the projector/blackboard/doing uni work). The second one is taken on a night after I finished work, it was one of the first few times where I tried putting on some makeup (sometimes I like to look more professional at work, just as an excuse to experiment with something about my appearance Laughing ) and it actually ended up working well for me, I liked that photo. I would like to imagine that if a person saw me in my blazer, I would probably ping more as cool, confident, extroverted. If a person saw me in the other photo it would probably ping to them, nerdy, maybe shy, not so extroverted. People might be intimidated by blazer wearing, just finished work guy and might see him as cool, but probably not be intimidated by a guy with glasses, doing maths, wearing his high school jersey shirt at home.

Funny thing is, they are both the same guy.

What I mean by all of this is, if you don't know them, you have no idea who they are, or what they may or may not value. If you feel scared of cool guy or cool girl, and think they probably wont even bother talking to you, just imagine a less intimidating version of them (them wearing pyjamas, or maybe they eat packaged potato chips with a fork in an awkward way, I don't know). Or you can also remember in your head, "I don't know them, I don't know what they are like or what they are into, but after a couple minutes of flirting I'll find out Wink ". I don't know how to get them to notice you, without you having to approach though (I'm a guy so I would just approach, don't know what will work better for you). But I can try to help you feel less scared. Maybe the guy who you think is really cool, and hangs around with other cool people, could be super into you! Who knows? This Tuesday after math class, I was flirting with a woman from class and she was telling me she thought she was unhealthy cause she dosen't go to the gym. I was sooo super into her! I didn't think any less of her at all.

I thought of all of this, because today I actually think I might have intimidated someone, in the, she liked me way. Today I was wearing my v neck, slimmer fitted top, just did strength training yesterday so I looked more muscularly toned, and this girl in my dance class was literally too afraid to come up to me and ask me what my name was so she whispered something to the dance teacher, and the dance teacher said in a very oooh, love is in the air tone, hey she really wants to meet you and know what your name is, I was in the middle of a conversation with my friend, and I thought they were talking about someone else (cause I wouldn't think they would be talking about me, I'm not very used to being seen as attractive) and I was like "wait, who, you?" (pointed to my friend) and the teacher said no, you, I was like, "what, me?". I was pretty surprised. Yet interesting thing is, I don't think about myself that way, as "the cool guy who will only like/ speak with other "cool" people" If she came up to me I would have totally been really friendly, and told her my name and talked to her. In the past I was the one who would be too scared to even start a conversation with a girl I liked, and would be too scared to even tell somebody else that I liked someone. And I haven't even been on a date, never kissed, and never have had sex. Which are things that cool guys are supposed to have done.

Jayce

Posts : 211
Reputation : 66
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by ChrissyOrig on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:09 pm

StrangePanda wrote:It really really warms my heart that you give me your advice and support, I honestly didn't think people will respond that much because wherever I ask for advice people IRL I hear "lose weight", "just wait for the right person", or just no answear at all, 'cause many people with a dating life can't really say what they do specifically, it just works for them and they don't pay attention to what they do (does it make any sense what am I saying?).

StrangePanda, have you checked out the TV show "How to Look Good Naked?" (UK version). Don't know where you are, but in the US it's on HULU, possibly on other sites as well. That show is all about actually showing women how to look more attractive without losing weight or having plastic surgery or doing anything weird or expensive. There are all types of women on the show, so one or more of them may fit into what you're looking for. The big take-away for me from that show is that we women often do not appreciate the beautiful aspects of ourselves, instead focusing solely on the minor defects that other people hardly even notice.

Oddly enough, another interesting thing I learned was from America's Top Model (not really recommended, but it's sort of interesting to see how photoshoots, etc. are set up). The important thing I noticed was that coming across as attractive didn't depend as much on the person's actual physical features, but more on how they projected themselves. When the coaches or mentors or whatever they are, are saying "find your face" they are really saying "find yourself" and that leads to other people being able to see your awesomeness. This is related to the whole stand-up-straight, look-confident thng. Interesting to see it in action.

Hope this makes sense to you. In any case, best of luck to you, and have fun experimenting!

ChrissyOrig

Posts : 29
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by OneTrueGuest on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:20 pm

OMG, America's Next Top Model has helped me SO much in posing for photographs. I used to watch the show only so I could watch the photoshoot and then see the end result (I love photography and photoshop), but as I watched it I realised that there were so many tricks the models were using to take pictures. This might sound ridiculously obvious, but as a woman, putting your hands on your hips instead of just standing with your arms hanging at your side makes both your arms and torso look SO much thinner. There are other more difficult to describe tricks but my photos now look so much better. Heck, before I go out to a party where I know people will be taking pictures, I practice how to pose in the particular outfit I'm wearing since not all outfits photograph the same way. It sounds vain and ridiculous, but it's made a world of difference.

StrangePanda - I'm very glad my story helped. And yes, it's really not an appearance thing. And while I know I have an advantage with my looks absolutely, I will tell you that the "Well what's wrong with you" kind of questions that would come up when the truth was revealed was not fun. People get very suspicious when you are in your mid 20s, look like me and still haven't lost your virginity. I, like you, just started lying about it. And honestly, I think in casual social situations it's just fine to lie about it. I really do. I think we sometimes overshare too much anyway in this day and age. So I don't think it's anyone's business what my sexual history is. However if they directly asked me (and really, what right do they have to do that? It bugs me so much) I'd lie. However, once you are with a partner you need to trust them enough to tell them the truth I think.

I will say to confirm the speculations of all current virgins on the site, that yes, it is a major weight lifted in social situations once you have lost your virginity. But it also made me a little angry, because even though it had finally happened I didn't feel like a different person, and it wasn't like I was all that experienced despite that one thing. So it wasn't like I had any special knowledge or anything. I had literally just done one thing physically. It's so stupid we put so much weight on PIV. And funnily enough, after I lost my virginity I started to tell people how late in life I had lost it. I was no longer embarrassed I guess, and suddenly I discovered so many other people who lost theirs later in life too, and others who said they wished they'd waited for the right person and didn't just do it to get it over with, and it was such a positive experience. But still. I understand the desire to lie, and I understand the shame. It's just so . . . stupid that we as a society make people feel that way.

Aaaaaand rant over Smile .

OneTrueGuest

Posts : 152
Reputation : 111
Join date : 2014-11-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by StrangePanda on Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:10 pm

ChrissyOrig, I will totally check "How to Look Good Naked", I never heard of it but from what I just learned from a little research it sounds like something I need to watch! Howerer, I dislike America's Top Model because the girls are beautiful and thin and I end up feeling like a whale when I watch this show (but I do recognize it may be interesting for someone who is into photography).

Herr R wrote: I totally think that a singles bar for the socially awkward, nerdy and non-conventionally attractive would totally make bank.

Yeeeesss I'm  really with you on this one!

Jayce, Honestly, I never thought about it. It does make sense what you're saying. I never thought about imagining a cool person not being cool because in my head they're always cool. I'm easly intimidated by cute guys who also talk about some smart and serious things (like if there is a conversation about programming some stuff and in my head it's like omg what do I say, what do I do, I totally suck at programming but I can't tell this because he will think I'm stupid, so I never join the conversation -_- ).  Not to mention these guys just sitting by themselves and not speaking about cool things but who I found cute but never had the courage to try to start a conversation with because they look so confident and cute and I'm here like a deer in the headlights rofl

StrangePanda

Posts : 51
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2015-01-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Jayce on Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:39 pm

It is totally ok to talk about things you don't know enough about or have no idea about! I do it all the time, I just use one thing to my leverage:

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Tumblr10

Trust me, people love curiosity. It makes them feel like you are interested in them and want to get to know them. Also curiosity also implies you aren't judging negatively, because you are only trying to find out about them.

The only skills that are required to genuinely develop curiosity is an open mind, and a tendency to be able to see the positive side of things.

You know what I'm doing when there is a woman that I like but I haven't approached yet? I'm sitting there by myself, looking cool and somewhat well dressed, thinking of approaching, and pep talking myself up.


Jayce

Posts : 211
Reputation : 66
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Gentleman Johnny on Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:45 am

Herr R wrote: I totally think that a singles bar for the socially awkward, nerdy and non-conventionally attractive would totally make bank.

I was always a fan of the idea of a small singles' bookstore with attached coffee shop where shy people could ask the waiter to send someone a bookmark with their order.

_________________
Gentleman Johnny
Not John Galt
Gentleman Johnny
Gentleman Johnny

Posts : 555
Reputation : 213
Join date : 2014-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle - Page 2 Empty Re: Advice for a twenty-something lady in struggle

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum