How do I know if it's real?

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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:56 am

Unfortunately it comes down to a point that I can't dispute, that "lacking motivation" isn't a valid reason for anything. It doesn't matter if I have no motivation to do anything other than slump in bed all day and stare at a wall or the ceiling. If I'm not getting up and doing things that need to be done, then I'm just being lazy and making things worse. It's something my family has told me time and time again, I just need to start working harder. I was told that if I can do that and still feel this way, we might look into some other possibilities.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by jcorozza on Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:00 am

The thing with that is...if you do have depression, depression often causes a lack of motivation. It will keep you from working harder - it wants you to lie in bed and do nothing. When I'm really depressed, I can recognize that calling a friend would make me feel better, and so would going for a walk, but I can't seem to find the energy to do those things. Sometimes, if I can focus on really tiny things, and then accomplish them, that can help, but it doesn't always.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Werel on Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:12 am

"Lacking motivation" isn't an illness, it's a symptom. While there are non-depression-related reasons for lacking motivation (including just, uh, being human and feeling like DON'T WANNA sometimes), you gotta try to get some perspective on it-- there's a pretty wide spectrum of stuff under the heading "lacking motivation."

Having trouble summoning the motivation to do something which is generally acknowledged to be hard and unpleasant, like painting your house or overhauling your resume, is normal. Yes, sometimes you just have to "try harder" and grit your teeth through that kind of thing. Having trouble summoning the motivation to do stuff which is not generally considered hard or unpleasant, like getting out of bed, talking to a friend, or blinking at a normal human rate, is not on the "just try harder" end of the motivation spectrum. It's on the "fuck, something is really wrong here" end.

I've been where you are, or at least somewhere very close to it, Aggrax. It's possible to get out of there. But first you have to acknowledge that you're not going to be able to just power through it through sheer force of will. It's going to take other stuff, other help. And the place to start is probably with your doctor. They'll be able to help you figure out how to explain the difference between "lazy" and "depressed" to your family, or maybe even talk to your family with you. And even if you can't get your family on board, they don't have to live in your head. Take a stand on your own behalf and do what you need to do to get better.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by PintsizeBro on Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:37 pm

Werel wrote:Having trouble summoning the motivation to do something which is generally acknowledged to be hard and unpleasant, like painting your house or overhauling your resume, is normal. Yes, sometimes you just have to "try harder" and grit your teeth through that kind of thing. Having trouble summoning the motivation to do stuff which is not generally considered hard or unpleasant, like getting out of bed, talking to a friend, or blinking at a normal human rate, is not on the "just try harder" end of the motivation spectrum. It's on the "fuck, something is really wrong here" end.
This is a perfect way to put it.

Aggrax, your parents sound like the character in this article from The Onion. I'm sorry. It's not easy to live with.

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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:30 am

I wish I could just ignore what they are saying and push on with some other options, but I have absolutely zero confidence in myself when it comes to decision making. It seems like every time I try to stick to my own decisions, it turns out to be the wrong one. I've learned through extensive personal experience that the rest of my family is much smarter than I am and therefore that much more likely to make the right choice. Plus, my family has zero trust in my motivations or actions. Without 100% infallible, unable to be faked proof, it honestly doesn't matter what I say or do if they don't believe me. At this point, I'm lazy until proven depressed.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by jcorozza on Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:42 am

Well, if it helps at all, it seems like pretty much everyone here believes you when you say you think you're depressed. And even if it's not depression, that something is going on besides just laziness. Unfortunately, we're not there to yell this at your parents. It does sound like the best way to prove to them that it's not just laziness, though, would be to talk to your doctor. Do you have a doctor you like/trust?
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by reboot on Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:13 am

Aggrax wrote:I wish I could just ignore what they are saying and push on with some other options, but I have absolutely zero confidence in myself when it comes to decision making. It seems like every time I try to stick to my own decisions, it turns out to be the wrong one. I've learned through extensive personal experience that the rest of my family is much smarter than I am and therefore that much more likely to make the right choice. Plus, my family has zero trust in my motivations or actions. Without 100% infallible, unable to be faked proof, it honestly doesn't matter what I say or do if they don't believe me. At this point, I'm lazy until proven depressed.

You do not "decide" you are depressed. You go to a doctor/low cost mental health clinic, tell them in full detail what is going on, say you are afraid you might be depressed, and let the expert decide if you need further screening.

If you want me to Google free/low cost mental health clinics for you I will, just PM me your city and state (or province)
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:06 pm

I'm sorry for not being clear in that last post. I wasn't trying to say that I "decided" I had depression, but rather that I had decided to look into seeing a professional about a possibly diagnosis/treatment.

When I spoke to my endocrinologist last, I confided that I was having trouble managing my diabetes medication, specifically my mealtime insulin. After a rather emotional discussion, he said that he would see about having someone from an affiliated mental health organization contact me. I got a call last week that I unfortunately missed that left a callback number that I believe is from the office in question. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by jcorozza on Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:45 pm

Awesome! Those first few steps are some of the hardest!
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by reboot on Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:00 pm

Great to hear! And apparently at least one medical professional thinks your symptoms are worth investigating, so it is not just you who thinks there might be a problem.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:13 am

Obviously when I said tomorrow I meant Wednesday because I forgot to bring my phone to work on Monday, then remembered today only to realize that I copied the number into my phone wrong and it kept going to a disconnected number.

Honestly though, even just the thought of talking about this with someone on the phone really makes me nervous. I honestly felt relieved every time I was able to put it off for another day.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by reboot on Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:03 am

It is nerve wracking going for mental health assistance. I blew off making an appointment for almost two years until I cracked up so badly that even I had to admit there was a problem. Then I resisted getting treatment for a second diagnosis for at least 6 months because, I do not know, stubborn? Felt I had enough wrong with me already? Symptom of my condition? All of the above?
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by jcorozza on Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:31 pm

Do you have trouble talking about stuff here? I mean, it's a bit different, since we can't see you, but it seems like you're able to talk about your problems here, so once you get started, it might not be so bad. I was pretty resistant to seeing someone for awhile (I don't have REAL problems - says my brain) - but now I actually look forward to seeing my therapist.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:14 pm

jcorozza wrote:Do you have trouble talking about stuff here?  I mean, it's a bit different, since we can't see you, but it seems like you're able to talk about your problems here, so once you get started, it might not be so bad.  I was pretty resistant to seeing someone for awhile (I don't have REAL problems - says my brain) - but now I actually look forward to seeing my therapist.  

It took me 12 hours to actually make this post because every time I start writing I start wondering if I'm complaining or whining to much and maybe I'm just making a big deal out of something. So I try to step away and get some space so I can think about things but then it all comes right back when I try to post again. So it's less that I don't have a problem talking here and more that you all can't see me stammer and shrug my shoulder for hours at a time.

Oh, and it turned out the call was from billing about my last visit, so I feel dumb for getting worked up over nothing.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:43 pm

Well, after another discussion in which my main contribution was crying and nodding, it's official: Endocrinologist visits and diabetes medication will still be paid for, but any kind of "mental health" cost are my own to cover. To paraphrase, "We aren't going to pay someone to tell you to get off your ass and lose weight. We've told you that enough for free." In addition, I now have a deadline of the end of May* to fine a real job on my own. If I can't, I'm going to start losing stuff to resale shops and eBay until I get a job.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Werel on Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:56 pm

Oh jeez, Aggrax, that sucks. Sorry you're not having any luck getting your family to come around (and on a side note, could they possibly be any more snide and wrong about what mental health care actually entails? No.) Neutral

If you want any help polishing resumes, cover letters, etc., or just trying to get your head into the right space to even apply to things, we're here as a sounding board. Jedi hugs, dude. Family resistance to any kind of mental health stuff is so hard.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Enail on Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:07 pm

Ugh, sorry your family is being so difficult and nasty about it all. Many Jedi hugs.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:12 am

I feel like there isn't a point to any of this anymore. It doesn't matter what argument I make because the people I'm arguing with have decided that I'm wrong, so I can't possibly win. Who I am right now is who I'm always going to be. I am fat, I've always been fat and I'll be fat for the rest of my (likely shorter than average) life. I'll just keep coasting away with whatever job will hire basically anyone and eventually get fired for some compounding screw up or another. Since nothing I do matters, I guess it doesn't really matter what I do.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Enail on Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:54 pm

It's possible that you'll never be able to convince your family, and that really, really sucks, but that doesn't mean that you can't make changes on your own and build a life that helps you be healthy and happy, with some separation from the people who are cutting you down and holding you back now. I know that's a really difficult thing, both logistically and emotionally, but it's something that can be done. Your family is not your destiny.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:17 am

I don't even know anymore. Change just seems impossible. There are things about myself I can't change because that's just who I am. Just like, no matter how much I might practice, I'll never be a great artist or chef or writer. I don't have the inherent skills necessary to succeed in those fields. I wasn't born with them and can never get them. Poor impulse control, obesity and a blinding amount of stupidity in the subjects that matter are things about myself that can't change.

Change is an illusion. Practice and work can build up from the basic skill people are born with, but they can't create a skill that a person doesn't have. Unless you're born capable of being good at something, it's all just so much wheel spinning.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by reboot on Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:55 am

Aggrax wrote:I don't even know anymore. Change just seems impossible. There are things about myself I can't change because that's just who I am. Just like, no matter how much I might practice, I'll never be a great artist or chef or writer. I don't have the inherent skills necessary to succeed in those fields. I wasn't born with them and can never get them. Poor impulse control, obesity and a blinding amount of stupidity in the subjects that matter are things about myself that can't change.

Change is an illusion. Practice and work can build up from the basic skill people are born with, but they can't create a skill that a person doesn't have. Unless you're born capable of being good at something, it's all just so much wheel spinning.

No, you can create a skill. You may never be great at it and it may never be natural, but you can teach anyone any pattern of behavior.

On the family thing, I feel you. I made the mistake of telling my parents my diagnoses (at 37-38 you would think I would have known better). They were about as supportive as yours, with more demands that I say rosary. We had a knock down, drag out, cops were called* fight about it, mostly about me spending money on it (my money may I note).

Some families will never get it. You tried. It sucks to not have their support. At this point all you can do is to keep them from undermining your progress in therapy.

*My folks are in a retirement trailer park, any noise=cops
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Enail on Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:19 pm

The only skill people are born with is screaming their heads off. Everything else, you learned. You learned to read and write, you learned to swim well enough to be an instructor, you've learned tons of things you weren't born with! You can learn other things, too.

And, humans are very adaptable, and for many desired results, there's more than one way to achieve them. Even if you always struggle with impulse control, you can learn strategies to work around that and to support your willpower. Even if you are always obese, you can make a difference to your health with even small improvements in eating, exercise and other self care. Even if you are not naturally talented at some subjects, there are a lot of subjects that can matter; some combination of finding ones that are a good fit for you, patience and practice, and good teachers and learning tools can help you succeed at things that matter to you.

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with your parents. It must be really hard dealing with all this while they're failing to support you, cutting you down and standing in the way of your attempts to get help. But you are doing it anyway! That's really impressive. Keep it up. Smile
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by jcorozza on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:52 pm

So nothing ever came out of talking to your PCP about it? Maybe it's something you can mention again to him/her? It's pretty clear that your family are going to be in no way supportive about it. Do you have close friends/siblings/other you can talk to about any of this?
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by Aggrax on Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:04 am

Both of my brothers are pretty firmly on my parents side. The older of the two (I'm the oldest, so he's the middle) actually ranted at me a while back that the only reason I'm having these problems is because I refuse to fix them. I can't ever really argue with him, since he has his life together and is way smarter than I am. He's very analytically and logically minded, where as I'm always so emotional about these things, so he's able to make much better, more coherent points, while I spend the entire discussion trying not to yell or cry.

I don't want to talk to my friends about this. I don't what to start bothering them or whining to much. I don't want to break down in front of them. Spending time with them makes me feel better and I don't want to jeopardize that. And no matter how much I rationalize it and say that these people have been my friends for years, decades even, there is still a part of me that keeps worrying that I'm just one misstep away from ruining the friendship permanently.
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Re: How do I know if it's real?

Post by jcorozza on Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:05 am

Ugh, that stinks. Your brother may be smart, but he doesn't have a damn clue about how mental health works. Why is this an area where so many smart people fail so miserably????

I am glad to hear that you have friends who you at least feel better around - that's definitely a positive. And the fact that many of them have been your friends for years/decades is a really good sign that people like having you around.

How long have the jerkbrain/depression-like feelings been going on? Are the something relatively new?
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