What is "Male Sexuality?"

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:14 am

The Wisp wrote:There's little to no affirmation of the value of male sexuality that doesn't involve toxic aspects of one of the first two narratives I sketched out above.

I've said on here before I was a latebloomer, but I did know I didn't like how I was supposed be a man thanks to what 'being a man' meant. A lot of 'being a man' involves doinking many partners. Something I had little interest in. So, when I finally became interested enough to seek out places like this and others, well, running into some dialogue on male sexuality was a bit like...

What is "Male Sexuality?" - Page 2 104583-Community-Troy-pizza-screaming-Ng7R

It's weird, because I knew I was on the fringe of what is defined as 'male sexuality' and still am, but at the same time it's very frustrating and a little scary to see how much flak it gets because when it's the only real mainstream message out there for how I should be, it's hard to not associate yourself with what is being labelled terrible.

The Wisp wrote:There is little to no guidance on how to ask for what you want sexually, to have sexual boundaries, to advocate for your pleasure, that aren't toxic and pressuring, especially if you aren't a monogamous married middle-aged man.

This is the part that really gets me. The discussion of too many don'ts and too few dos has been had here before, but it's critical that people learn how to enforce sexual boundaries. This is an issues that plagues both men and women, but I certainly don't see much at all for men when it comes to teaching them 'if you don't want to do it, you have every right not to do it' whatever 'it' is.

For the longest time, as discomforted by touch as I am, I thought that if a woman went all in on me or something I couldn't just say no. Sexual boundaries were for women, because they needed them. I'm a man, I'm supposed to deal with.

Things suck for everyone, really. Laughing

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Post by Conreezy on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:27 pm

reboot wrote:This is weird. I cannot think of anything that is specifically male or female sexuality. All I can come up with is healthy/unhealthy because I see the same good and bad behaviors in both men and women. I cannot picture "female" or "male" sexuality.

I wonder if it is because I have spent so much time in Muslim culture where the sexual aggressors are women (e.g. rampant and uncontrolled, seducers, animalistic, promiscuous) that it is all muddled up for me

Yeah, there probably isn't anything biologically determined. Not so long ago, I think European expectations were the same way. But I think the male/female categories refer to the general expectations of gender performance of sex.

So apparently men's sexuality hurts men too

It certainly can be harmful to us. I think we get shortchanged by the fixation on the physical sensation and increased social status. I've always admired how women are generally better about remembering the consequences of sex; too many guys have trouble with thinking more than six inches into the future. How many men get themselves into terrible situations just to get laid? How many men think that sex is the only thing that makes a relationship worth time and effort? Loads, as I've noticed.

Women can do all of those things, too, but I think they are much more free to admit that they have emotional needs in conjunction with their sexual needs. Men force themselves to have such low standards regarding those things.

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Post by Autumnflame on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:28 pm

Conreezy wrote:
It does seem to seep into every situation, doesn't it?  I was laughing at myself for checking out a woman at my gym, which is generally the one place I turn my head off to absolutely everything.  I got to wondering if the pervasiveness of sexual thoughts in men comes from the push to be the aggressor?  (Well, it probably comes from old fashioned biochemistry, but is it made worse by our position as initiator?)  Since it's not very likely we're going to be pursued, we develop a hyper-vigilant attitude towards our next potential sexual fix?

I don't think so, no. I mean, that kind of always-on attraction radar might be more prevalent in dudes than in ladies - I have no way of determining that, and haven't seen anything on the subject. But I suspect it's more to do one's libido or evaluation of other people in general. I pretty much always instinctively assess people for how attractive they are, no matter what I'm doing (though the level to which I am actually attracted to someone can vary depending on how focused/stressed I am about other things). Granted, I'm usually the aggressor, but I certainly wasn't raised with that as the model in society. I've seen other women laugh about that same sort of reflexive checking-out of anything that moves.
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Post by Enail on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:28 pm

The Wisp wrote:
I would define men's sexuality as the thoughts, emotions, social messages, and self-perception of the sexual side of men.

This makes a lot of sense. I think this definition is really helpful for a lot of these discussions we have. I know I often get a bit confused what we're really talking about when we talk about 'men's sexuality' or 'women's sexuality.' You should consider pinning this at the start of every discussion on the topic!
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Post by Robjection on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:42 pm

Autumnflame wrote:I've seen other women laugh about that same sort of reflexive checking-out of anything that moves.
Depending on how literally you mean by "reflexive checking-out of anything that moves", a professor at my old university might be able to explain it. It's why he said that, if anyone has a question, they should raise their hand and wave like mad.

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Post by InkAndComb on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:40 pm

I'm here mostly to listen, but I thought I'd throw in; something I always admired/noticed about male sexuality, was an inherent appreciation for the visceral.  This is speaking mostly from casual encounters, but! I felt I could express myself nonverbally and physically through intimacy, in a more raw way, and this type of language-through-interaction was easily understood and celebrated.  I also found the enthusiasm therapeutic; caffeinated has it down when they say "that look when they answer the door".  Something about that expression and frankness of interest and appreciation, it really broke down a lot of fears I had about my body and desirability.  I feel like although I hear a lot of men struggle with this too, the men that I've met that seem most confident and comfortable displaying their sexuality embody this especially.
 It's something I seek to have more in my life, a "masculine" expression of physical intimacy beyond that which gets bastardized and exaggerated by the media into what we see as the overly aggressive alpha-personality.  It frustrates me that we have this dichotomy of love-styles, but I understand how it came about (sort of).
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Post by Conreezy on Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:24 pm

Something about that expression and frankness of interest and appreciation, it really broke down a lot of fears I had about my body and desirability. I feel like although I hear a lot of men struggle with this too, the men that I've met that seem most confident and comfortable displaying their sexuality embody this especially.

This is good to hear/read. Whereas a lot of guys think their gaze is the most important thing in the world to a woman's self-esteem, it seems a lot of guys around these parts approach it from the other side of the spectrum. I think it's comforting to know that having physical, sexual desire, and expressing it, can be affirming to a partner and doesn't have to be destructive or indicative of something wrong in a man.

I don't think so, no. I mean, that kind of always-on attraction radar might be more prevalent in dudes than in ladies - I have no way of determining that, and haven't seen anything on the subject.

Yeah, I'm just running with stereotypes and lay-person observations of my single male friends. Many of them take the numbers approach to dating and sex, so they're always on the lookout for someone to hit on. No maliciously, mind you; it seems like it's always on the forefront of their mind. It was certainly on mine when I was single.

But I suspect it's more to do one's libido or evaluation of other people in general. I pretty much always instinctively assess people for how attractive they are, no matter what I'm doing (though the level to which I am actually attracted to someone can vary depending on how focused/stressed I am about other things).

While there are differences in libido between men and between the same man during different stages of life or the day, we have to be pretty careful about admitting it. That's why I brought up the question about how many men seem to have wandering eye because it's what's expected of us, and wrong as it may be, not having it could be seen as worse.

I've seen other women laugh about that same sort of reflexive checking-out of anything that moves.

That's funny! Makes me feel like less of a deviant. :p

Question for you: quite a few times, I've been in public areas with strange men, like bus stops or elevators or whatnot, and noticed an attractive woman pass by. After she leaves, all the guys look at each other and wordlessly nod in agreement. Does that sort of thing happen with women?

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Post by nearly_takuan on Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:57 pm

To most of the recent above: where you seem to see opportunity, I see obligation. Grep-replace "can", "may", "allowed to", with "must". Realize that "inherent" and "instinctive" are expectations, not truths. Frankness, straightforwardness, initiative, and risk-taking have ever been the male Role. Not so freeing when it's not your "nature".
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Post by celette482 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:58 pm

Fun story about checking out things that move. I was out walking and there was this freakin' Adonis running shirtless. I mean ADONIS. He must have been a college athlete (I was very close to a university) because no one looks like that otherwise. He was running toward me. I was appreciative of the view. Behind him was a woman, about mid-50s, also walking toward me. She was CLEARLY checking out his butt. She met my eyes as we passed each other and gave me a "hell yeah" smile. I started cracking up.
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Post by PintsizeBro on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:25 am

Male sexuality is (metaphorically) the direction my boner points.

When anyone claims that talking about harassment or consent is demonizing male sexuality, I'm insulted. I've met women who seem to think that being a man is essentially a constant struggle against the urge to rape, and when I meet those women I tell them that they have no idea what it's like to be a man. It is not that hard to say, "Not now, boner."

This is not because my sex drive is low. I'll fuck you as soon as look at you. But if I'm not your cup of tea, I don't consider that a referendum on my value as a human being.

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Post by LadyLuck on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:04 pm

But if I'm not your cup of tea, I don't consider that a referendum on my value as a human being.

And this would be the ideal for everyone, I think everyone agrees. But there's a huge chunk of society that believes otherwise, and they can be hard to ignore too. This probably goes double for the anxious/depressed/insecure guys - the amplified jerkbrain from these kinds of conditions makes you more susceptible to negative messages. Unfortunately these conditions can also cause dating problems too. So basically, the guys who have a hardest time getting sex, are also those most likely to believe negative messages about their sexuality, and most likely to see negativity in things not intended as such.

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Post by PintsizeBro on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:20 pm

It took a lot of un-learning messages that I'd absorbed, some consciously and some not, to get to where I am now. It's still a learning process, I certainly don't think of myself as especially well-adjusted (despite growing evidence to the contrary, apparently).

I recommend men, especially young men, be critical of the media they consume and avoid advertisements whenever possible. This is something feminists and social justice types recommend to girls/women and minorities all the time, guess what, it's great advice for men too! This isn't to say that guys should stop liking what they like, just be aware. It's easy to get lured into a sense of complacency by consuming tons of media that on some level caters to boners. I think much of the frustration at the inability to find an interested partner for sex comes from the expectation that it should be easy. Yeah, it's going to be easy for some guys, but not all.

If it's not easy for you (the proverbial "you"), it's okay to be sad and frustrated. But ultimately you are in charge, your boner is just a feeling. It's like being hungry. Sometimes you're hungry and you pass an amazing restaurant that you can't afford and you go home and make a sandwich. No, it's not ideal, but it doesn't mean you failed at eating.

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Post by Autumnflame on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:24 pm

Conreezy wrote:Question for you: quite a few times, I've been in public areas with strange men, like bus stops or elevators or whatnot, and noticed an attractive woman pass by.  After she leaves, all the guys look at each other and wordlessly nod in agreement.  Does that sort of thing happen with women?

Hmm! Not with strangers, no, I haven't had that happen to me personally. I've definitely had it happen with friends (especially regarding waitstaff or otherwise-working people, where it would be inappropriate to hit on them but we want to share our appreciation - or sometimes just about mutual acquaintances).
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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:44 am

Autumnflame wrote:
Conreezy wrote:Question for you: quite a few times, I've been in public areas with strange men, like bus stops or elevators or whatnot, and noticed an attractive woman pass by.  After she leaves, all the guys look at each other and wordlessly nod in agreement.  Does that sort of thing happen with women?

Hmm! Not with strangers, no, I haven't had that happen to me personally. I've definitely had it happen with friends (especially regarding waitstaff or otherwise-working people, where it would be inappropriate to hit on them but we want to share our appreciation - or sometimes just about mutual acquaintances).

Slight derail, but I guess I can keep it on topic...

Is this actually really common for other people? I find it awkward as hell when any of the guys I'm with notices a woman and makes it a point to bring up the fact he thinks she's attractive in some way. I mean, we have proof positive in this thread that women do it too, but I only ever see guys do it and it's fucking annoying. Like, good for you mate, do you want us to halt the conversation while you go have a wank in the corner?

I mean, I see women I find attractive all the time, but I don't find it appropriate to really bring that up. It's probably just me being that weird mix of prude / not-prude but it's a behaviour that always made me supremely uncomfortable to have to put up with.

It's another small layer on top of the already frustrating messages telling me "you don't express your sexuality correctly, you non-man you!" since it seems so hard-coded into how men are supposed to react to the women around them when in a group. I'm supposed to project the fact I think the woman in corner has great tits or some stupid bullshit like that to my dudebro pals and we can high-five and chug brewskis.

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Post by Werel on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:03 am

MapWater wrote:
Is this actually really common for other people? I find it awkward as hell when any of the guys I'm with notices a woman and makes it a point to bring up the fact he thinks she's attractive in some way. I mean, we have proof positive in this thread that women do it too, but I only ever see guys do it and it's fucking annoying. Like, good for you mate, do you want us to halt the conversation while you go have a wank in the corner?

I mean, I see women I find attractive all the time, but I don't find it appropriate to really bring that up. It's probably just me being that weird mix of prude / not-prude but it's a behaviour that always made me supremely uncomfortable to have to put up with.

It's another small layer on top of the already frustrating messages telling me "you don't express your sexuality correctly, you non-man you!" since it seems so hard-coded into how men are supposed to react to the women around them when in a group. I'm supposed to project the fact I think the woman in corner has great tits or some stupid bullshit like that to my dudebro pals and we can high-five and chug brewskis.

Huh. Not having female friends who understand/share/are aware of my taste, such that I can't point out an attractive dude and giggle with them, is actually one of the saddest absences in my social life. I actively mourn it once in a while. (My BFF from high school wasn't into the same types of guys as me, but we knew each other's tastes, and we had a goofy little signal where we'd hold up an index finger when a hot [to one of us] dude passed by: "I'm his number 1 fan!" Ahhh teen girl friendship codes Heart ) Being able to enthuse with a friend over an attractive person is a great pleasure for me, and it seems like a lot of men feel that need to co-enthuse too? I'm having a hard time verbalizing what exactly I find satisfying about it; maybe it's the same sort of drive for camaraderie that makes people want to cheer for sports teams together. I dunno. But I think the drive to share your joy at the existence of hotness crosses gender lines, and I really empathize with why guys do it.
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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:34 am

Autumnflame wrote:
Conreezy wrote:Question for you: quite a few times, I've been in public areas with strange men, like bus stops or elevators or whatnot, and noticed an attractive woman pass by.  After she leaves, all the guys look at each other and wordlessly nod in agreement.  Does that sort of thing happen with women?
Hmm! Not with strangers, no, I haven't had that happen to me personally. I've definitely had it happen with friends (especially regarding waitstaff or otherwise-working people, where it would be inappropriate to hit on them but we want to share our appreciation - or sometimes just about mutual acquaintances).

Co-signed.

Then there'll be times I'm at work and I'm sitting in a chair overlooking the lab, making sure nothing is exploding and a cute student will walk in. Once they leave or walk far away enough, on more than one occasion, my boss (he's 27, not much older than me) and I lean over, look at each other and nod in agreement or to verify that "You see her!?"

I dunno, just seems like a natural thing guys do. Of course not all boys do this either. Razz

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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:31 am

Werel wrote:
MapWater wrote:
Is this actually really common for other people? I find it awkward as hell when any of the guys I'm with notices a woman and makes it a point to bring up the fact he thinks she's attractive in some way. I mean, we have proof positive in this thread that women do it too, but I only ever see guys do it and it's fucking annoying. Like, good for you mate, do you want us to halt the conversation while you go have a wank in the corner?

I mean, I see women I find attractive all the time, but I don't find it appropriate to really bring that up. It's probably just me being that weird mix of prude / not-prude but it's a behaviour that always made me supremely uncomfortable to have to put up with.

It's another small layer on top of the already frustrating messages telling me "you don't express your sexuality correctly, you non-man you!" since it seems so hard-coded into how men are supposed to react to the women around them when in a group. I'm supposed to project the fact I think the woman in corner has great tits or some stupid bullshit like that to my dudebro pals and we can high-five and chug brewskis.

Huh. Not having female friends who understand/share/are aware of my taste, such that I can't point out an attractive dude and giggle with them, is actually one of the saddest absences in my social life. I actively mourn it once in a while. (My BFF from high school wasn't into the same types of guys as me, but we knew each other's tastes, and we had a goofy little signal where we'd hold up an index finger when a hot [to one of us] dude passed by: "I'm his number 1 fan!" Ahhh teen girl friendship codes Heart ) Being able to enthuse with a friend over an attractive person is a great pleasure for me, and it seems like a lot of men feel that need to co-enthuse too? I'm having a hard time verbalizing what exactly I find satisfying about it; maybe it's the same sort of drive for camaraderie that makes people want to cheer for sports teams together. I dunno. But I think the drive to share your joy at the existence of hotness crosses gender lines, and I really empathize with why guys do it.

I really don't have that drive at all then. The last thing I want to do when I see a woman I think is attractive is to tell anyone about it. At all.

Talking about theoretical turn-ons? Eh, maybe, and there's only a few people or places I would even consider doing that. But when it jumps to talking about actual people I don't feel comfortable with it. Nor having to deal with other people looking for validation of their own observations.

If it crosses gender lines then I'm clearly just an anomaly. There's personal factors involved in why I don't particularly like it (my feelings of attraction are a negative for one), but it's something that's always struck me as mainly being associated with men even if it's not their exclusive pissing ground.

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Post by InkAndComb on Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:27 am


Question for you: quite a few times, I've been in public areas with strange men, like bus stops or elevators or whatnot, and noticed an attractive woman pass by.  After she leaves, all the guys look at each other and wordlessly nod in agreement.  Does that sort of thing happen with women?

This definitely happens with me, but I can see why because A) My work environment is 19-21 yr olds (both genders) minus myself (25) and the manager. B) We are a pretty small crew and super, super comfortable with each other. It's a very lax, part-time environment. Most of us have grabbed a drink together, the work can be long and boring. I feel like the guys were bolder about speaking about it initially, but I've definitely had my share of shared "*eyebrow raise*" moments with a coworker. The talk is pretty innocous; even if the topic seems a big suggestive in nature, it's usually more of "did you see that guy? Oh my god. That hair? That booty doh" and is dropped pretty quick. I feel like it's part of the banter, and it's not an every day thing.

Versus me working at MacDonalds or a clerical setting; this NEVER came up. I definitely feel it's dependent on the crew makeup and formal/informal setting. (Plus it's a meat/cheese department, the puns were already doomed to inappropriateness xD )
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Post by Werel on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:42 pm

MapWater wrote:
I really don't have that drive at all then. The last thing I want to do when I see a woman I think is attractive is to tell anyone about it. At all.

Talking about theoretical turn-ons? Eh, maybe, and there's only a few people or places I would even consider doing that. But when it jumps to talking about actual people I don't feel comfortable with it. Nor having to deal with other people looking for validation of their own observations.

If it crosses gender lines then I'm clearly just an anomaly. There's personal factors involved in why I don't particularly like it (my feelings of attraction are a negative for one), but it's something that's always struck me as mainly being associated with men even if it's not their exclusive pissing ground.

Yeah, definitely not saying it appeals to everyone! I tread very carefully on commenting on attractiveness, and usually wait for the other person to do it first, because in my experience a fair number of people (men included) share your "noooo thanks that's private" stance. You may not be such an anomaly. Smile
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Post by trooper6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:29 pm

What is male sexuality? For me it is this:

"Do you identify as male?"
"Do you have a sexuality?'
Then whatever your sexuality is, is male sexuality.

There are as many male sexualities as there are and have been and will be male-identified people.

It reminds me of Eddie Izzard's response to a question.
He was asked: Why do you wear women's clothes?
He responded: They're not women's clothes. They're my clothes. I buy them.

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