Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Page 1 of 6 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by AtlachNacha on Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:13 am

I don't really know what to do, or where else to go with any of this, and posting this is so terrifying I feel like i'm about to black out, so... could i ask in advance that y'all please be gentle with me if i say something horribly stupid? I'm honestly just trying to figure this out and I feel like a horrible person.


I'm apparently really creepy. No matter what I do. I can't walk down the street that I live on after dark without getting the police called on me, when they get there they threaten to shoot me. If i go out in public women give me really creeped out looks and fast walk away from me, I've experienced female acquaintances telling our mutual friends that they're afraid i'm stalking them and going to rape them, i actually get women coming up to me just to tell me i look like a rapist... and these, half the time, are people I've never even interacted with, or if i have, am not interested in or attracted to, or in the case of the neighbors who keep calling the cops, never even SEEN.

I can't imagine what I could possibly be doing to creep these people out, but i know i must be doing SOMETHING, right? I keep reading that the only way a woman would react this way to a guy is if he violated her boundaries in some way, and i know i must be an horrible, disgusting person deep down if i can't figure it out, but honestly, these are half the time people i haven't even made eye contact with, until they say something, or i catch them staring at me with a worried look.

Since I know from previous discussions with my friends that my appearance is going to be the subject of some of the first questions: I am almost always clean shaven, I have long hair and my style of dress is best described as "corporate goth" - that is, suit, tie, etc. in black and shades of red and purple, but with boots and crosses and skulls and etc. it's one of the things i get compliments on from the few women who don't seem to be terrified of me, along with my hair. I have also been told several times that I look like Leonardo DiCaprio, so... as far as I can tell it's probably not my appearance? Perhaps something in my body language? How do I even go about correcting that? Do I need a full length mirror? (serious question, what is the process for this and are there professionals to help, similar to speech therapists?)

One of the things i keep getting from DNL and similar sites is that i have an obligation to not be creepy... so... what do I do here? I keep googling around for advice on 'how not to be creepy' and everything i get is either obvious, (don't make sexual comments, don't touch her) or contradictory, (DO make sexual comments and touch her, or she'll think you're hiding your true motivation for talking to her) and almost always irrelevant, because usually I'm not talking to them, but then apparently sitting in a corner of a room at a party not talking to anyone because nobody has given me an approach invitation is also creepy. And then according to DNL you HAVE to make sexual innuendo and touch her if you do talk to her, because otherwise she'll conclude you're not interested in her, and you'll never get anywhere, but also that is creepy don't do it and round and round in an infinite loop.

And then what i get from other places is if i go up and talk to a woman and it turns out she's not interested i'm a creep and a harasser and entitled and a misogynist but if i don't go u p and talk to her i'm lacking self confidence and 'you miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take' and if i don't i'll always be alone, and again, infinite loop, i'm a horrible person and will die alone no matter which way i go.

At this point my anxiety about it is so bad i can't make direct eye contact with women I've known since high school when i'm out in public, and it's starting to become physically painful and debilitating, to the point that i can't walk without a cane, which... apparently makes me even creepier?

I really don't know what to do here, and I would really appreciate it if anyone has some insight. If you read this thread, whether or not you reply: thank you for taking (probably wasting) the time. and sorry if it got a bit difficult to read, my grammar has been known to degenerate when I'm stressed, and I was never a particularly good writer to begin with.

I'm going to go have a panic attack now, It might be a few days before i have the courage to check this thread.

AtlachNacha

Posts : 57
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2015-02-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by kleenestar on Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:42 am

Thank you for posting this! I can see that it took a lot of courage.

I'm deliberately not going to focus on the second half of your post, because I think that is going to end up making you more rather than less anxious.

Instead, I want to talk about the experiences you list in the first half of your post, and what you can do to make sense of them.

You describe a combination of different things. "Women give me freaked out looks" could be your jerkbrain talking, and having neighbors who are actively harassing you just means you happen to live near awful people. But if more than one woman you know is telling mutual friends that they're afraid of you, then yes, I think it's very likely that you're doing something that scares them.

I would suggest talking to the most trusted of your mutual friends and asking if they can help you gather data. Can this person ask these women what scared them? Your goal should be to NOT jump to conclusions from a single answer, but to look for a pattern across two or three answers. You also may have to listen deeper than the surface answer. These things are both hard, but this community can help!

Good luck!
kleenestar
kleenestar

Posts : 289
Reputation : 204
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by kleenestar on Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:44 am

Also, I want to add: you are not a horrible person for not knowing what you are doing to get this reaction. In fact, my first impression is that you are rather heroic for trying to figure it out, even though it's hard.
kleenestar
kleenestar

Posts : 289
Reputation : 204
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by BasedBuzzed on Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:57 am

Is there perhaps a local subcultural niche you can find where slightly freaky is cool? I don't know where you live, but it kind of sounds like you have an unconventional dress sense around, for lack of a better word, normies.

_________________
Pompeii, VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1904: "O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed that you have not already collapsed in ruin."
BasedBuzzed
BasedBuzzed

Posts : 811
Reputation : 267
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by fakely mctest on Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:10 am

I don't have a lot to add because I think kleenestar covered what your first steps might look like brilliantly.

If you don't have a therapist already, that could also be an avenue to explore. We're not going to be able to give you solid, specific advice about your posture or physical presentation. There may be other things going on emotionally, at the root of things that you're not aware of that a therapist can help you discover.

I know it's super hard to open up your body posture when you're feeling anxious, but that might be worth exploring. I usually travel around my city with a pair of headphones on a) because I like listening to music and the occasional podcast and b) because controlling at least one aspect of my environment is calming and keeps a lot of my racing, anxious thoughts at bay. It literally and figuratively helps me to unbend.

_________________
Please let it be an empty shoebox with a note saying “LOL Just kidding, I love cats, sorry I worried anyone. xoxox E. Schrödinger”
fakely mctest
fakely mctest
General Oversight Moderator

Posts : 298
Reputation : 74
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by AtlachNacha on Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:46 am

kleenestar wrote:

I'm deliberately not going to focus on the second half of your post, because I think that is going to end up making you more rather than less anxious.


Wait what? what does that mean? I said something that came out awful, didn't I? Please tell me what it was so I can clarify...

kleenestar wrote:

Instead, I want to talk about the experiences you list in the first half of your post, and what you can do to make sense of them.

You describe a combination of different things. "Women give me freaked out looks" could be your jerkbrain talking, and having neighbors who are actively harassing you just means you happen to live near awful people. But if more than one woman you know is telling mutual friends that they're afraid of you, then yes, I think it's very likely that you're doing something that scares them.

I would suggest talking to the most trusted of your mutual friends and asking if they can help you gather data. Can this person ask these women what scared them? Your goal should be to NOT jump to conclusions from a single answer, but to look for a pattern across two or three answers. You also may have to listen deeper than the surface answer. These things are both hard, but this community can help!

Good luck!

I would like to thank all of you VERY much for replying, and for not eating me alive.

I don't think it's jerkbrain... at least half the time. Wrinkled nose, one eyebrow raised, turning away and raising her shoulders, then quickening her pace as she passes me seems relatively straightforward to interpret. I freely admit my anxiety could be magnifiying things a little in other cases though.

I have spoken to the mutual friends in question, and the answers are usually thus: "I just want to stay out of it, ask them" (fair enough, but not an option for obvious reasons...) "She said you were following her around/staring at her" (only thing I can say to this is that I seriously just... wasn't. I don't stare. I can't even maintain eye contact for very long with my own parents, it always freaked me out a bit. and in both of these cases it was someone I had no interest in or attraction to at all.) "your anxiety is inflating it/you have a persecution complex/possibly your body language or tone of voice/you have aspergers" (this is one particular guy who's fond of making armchair psychiatric diagnoses. he's been the closest to helpful though.) What I get from my female friends is, strangely, the "they're just crazy bitches, ignore them" pep talk... less than helpful.

BasedBuzzed: I love your avatar, first off. To answer your question: there is, near as I can tell, precisely ONE goth(or etc.) club in the entire state, and it only exists on sundays, and is in the next city over. I wouldn't have thought a suit and tie would be particularly offputting to anybody, though? Especially not a bowtie. (even if it does have skulls on it...)

fakely mctest: I do in fact have a therapist. This is why I am able to leave the house and talk to people at all. I generally hear that walking around with headphones in is also creepy somehow, but i'm not sure how that works? In any case, something I already do most of the time, often not an option.

AtlachNacha

Posts : 57
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2015-02-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by kleenestar on Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:18 am

AtlachNacha wrote:
kleenestar wrote:

I'm deliberately not going to focus on the second half of your post, because I think that is going to end up making you more rather than less anxious.


Wait what? what does that mean? I said something that came out awful, didn't I? Please tell me what it was so I can clarify...


Oh, no, sorry that I was unclear! You haven't said anything awful! I just meant that given where you're at right now, arguing with your anxiety directly will only amplify it. I think that you would be wisest to stick to experiences rather than theory for the moment, because generalizing will give your jerkbrain opportunities to sabotage your learning and growth. Hence, my focus on the experiences you relate in the first half of the post.

More when I'm not mobile.
kleenestar
kleenestar

Posts : 289
Reputation : 204
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Prajnaparamita on Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:19 am

AtlachNacha wrote:
kleenestar wrote:

I'm deliberately not going to focus on the second half of your post, because I think that is going to end up making you more rather than less anxious.


Wait what? what does that mean? I said something that came out awful, didn't I? Please tell me what it was so I can clarify...

Hey AtlachNacha, I can't speak for kleenestar, but I think what she meant by focusing on the beginning of your post for you was because the most practical thing for us to start with right now is troubleshoot your behavior and attitudes and find out what you might be doing that rubs people the wrong way, or maybe that the people around you are jerks and gaslighting you, or maybe some combination of the two that has spiraled out of control. (Honestly, I don't know yet what's happening--I'd like to hear more about your friends/social environment/personality before I start giving advice on that front.)

The second part of your post however goes into a lot of negative, self-reinforcing beliefs that you have about being afraid of coming off as a creep, what that implies about you, how this affects your life and what you think this says about your dating life. And all those things are obviously important and clearly causing you pain, but rather than bombarding you with advice and trying to pick apart your thinking around that, it probably makes most sense to help you deal with why you're coming across as a creep and what to do before approaching how this has left you feeling and believing.

kleenestar, I'm sorry, I don't mean to talk for you, I just wanted to make it clear to AtlachNacha that we're not judging him and he hasn't done anything wrong here.

Also, Atlach? Jedi hug coming your way. There, there
Prajnaparamita
Prajnaparamita

Posts : 404
Reputation : 234
Join date : 2015-02-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by kleenestar on Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:49 am

Prajna, perfect, thanks. Smile
kleenestar
kleenestar

Posts : 289
Reputation : 204
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by AtlachNacha on Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:05 pm

Prajnaparamita wrote:
AtlachNacha wrote:
kleenestar wrote:

I'm deliberately not going to focus on the second half of your post, because I think that is going to end up making you more rather than less anxious.


Wait what? what does that mean? I said something that came out awful, didn't I? Please tell me what it was so I can clarify...

Hey AtlachNacha, I can't speak for kleenestar, but I think what she meant by focusing on the beginning of your post for you was because the most practical thing for us to start with right now is troubleshoot your behavior and attitudes and find out what you might be doing that rubs people the wrong way, or maybe that the people around you are jerks and gaslighting you, or maybe some combination of the two that has spiraled out of control. (Honestly, I don't know yet what's happening--I'd like to hear more about your friends/social environment/personality before I start giving advice on that front.)

The second part of your post however goes into a lot of negative, self-reinforcing beliefs that you have about being afraid of coming off as a creep, what that implies about you, how this affects your life and what you think this says about your dating life. And all those things are obviously important and clearly causing you pain, but rather than bombarding you with advice and trying to pick apart your thinking around that, it probably makes most sense to help you deal with why you're coming across as a creep and what to do before approaching how this has left you feeling and believing.

kleenestar, I'm sorry, I don't mean to talk for you, I just wanted to make it clear to AtlachNacha that we're not judging him and he hasn't done anything wrong here.

Also, Atlach? Jedi hug coming your way. There, there

I cannot figure out this multiquote thing, so kleenestar: sorry for misinterpreting, that was, clearly, my anxiety warping things again. Thank you both for the clarification, and thank you Prajnaparamita for the jedi-hug. (I love that term, it makes me giggle.)

I have no idea where to even begin on describing "friends/social environment/personality", other than that I don't really have much of a social environment, and don't see my friends often, because they all seem to be either busy or have moved away... I will perhaps have to think about it for a while and get back to you. ('being jerks and gaslighting' sounds somewhat plausible in at least three cases, however.)

What I know about my body language, however, is that I have a lot of difficulty either smiling or standing up completely straight. Half of it is feeling like I simply don't have the strength, if that makes any sense, and half of it is feeling... dishonest, somehow? I KNOW that doesn't make any sense.

Seeing my name used in context here makes me realize how bizarre of a choice it was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Ashton_Smith_deities#Atlach-Nacha

AtlachNacha

Posts : 57
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2015-02-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by gaboz on Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:27 pm

AtlachNacha, it looks like your choice of style doesn't jell with your surroundings. Maybe you look pissed off when you walk or have a "resting bitch face" for a lack of a better term. But Prajnaparamita and Kleenestar wrote some good advice and my only suggestion is to bring a bit more "happiness" in your style.


this is just disturbing and painful. Those female "acquaintances" are insanely shortsighted and not worth your soul

What I know about my body language, however, is that I have a lot of difficulty either smiling or standing up completely straight. Half of it is feeling like I simply don't have the strength, if that makes any sense, and half of it is feeling... dishonest, somehow? I KNOW that doesn't make any sense. wrote:

lets see: Half no strength sounds like some medical check up for you, maybe a vitamin deficient. The other half about dishonest sounds like the negative vibes you get from the surroundings weighs on you.


Last edited by gaboz on Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sudden Awnser from OP)

gaboz

Posts : 53
Reputation : 15
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by AtlachNacha on Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:44 pm

gaboz wrote:AtlachNacha, it looks like your choice of style doesn't jell with your surroundings. Maybe you look pissed off when you walk or have a " resting bitch face"for a lack of a better term. But Prajnaparamita and Kleenestar wrote some good advice and my only suggestion is to bring a bit more "happiness" in your style.


this is just disturbing and painful. Those female "acquaintances" are insanely shortsighted and not worth your soul

Now that I think of it, most of the few times I've had people actually flirt with me have been the rare occasions when I was actually smiling. Was still too scared to flirt back, though, seems silly in retrospect... "yes, she's running her fingers through your hair, but she'll probably be creeped out if you, god forbid, ask her name."

AtlachNacha

Posts : 57
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2015-02-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by gaboz on Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:46 pm

AtlachNacha wrote:

Now that I think of it, most of the few times I've had people actually flirt with me have been the rare occasions when I was actually smiling. Was still too scared to flirt back, though, seems silly in retrospect... "yes, she's running her fingers through your hair, but she'll probably be creeped out if you, god forbid, ask her name."

Hey, you knows what does work! And some say you look like DiCaprio. Work it!

gaboz

Posts : 53
Reputation : 15
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Enail on Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:26 pm

I just want to second that not knowing why you're getting these reactions doesn't make you horrible, and it's great that you're working to figure this out even though it causes you so much anxiety to ask.

It sounds to me like some of what is going on is that your style is unusual and not well-accepted in your area, and people who aren't used to it are jumping to extreme conclusions. But I suspect that, as well as just general prejudice against anyone who looks different, people might be finding your look intimidating and scary. Especially if you are a big guy or have a naturally angry-looking neutral expres​sion(or your anxious expression comes across as angry), a goth style (even corporate goth) can land up coming across as aggressive or hostile. So that might be a contributing factor that's not about you anything wrong, but that you can do something about compensating for.  

Are you open to adjusting your style a little bit? You could maybe look at the "cute goth" look some girls do, and see if there's anything that could be adapted to your style - a lot of it's pretty girly, but maybe there's something that could inspire you that would work to counter the intimidating look. Working on seeming friendlier sounds like it will be a more challenging one to work on given your anxiety and difficulty smiling, but since you've gotten more positive reactions when you have been smiling, it sounds like anything you can manage to do on that front could be very helpful.

It's a good sign that you have female friends who don't seem to think you are creepy. It's not a guarantee of anything, but it adds some extra weight to the idea that you're not pushing boundaries and not noticing it, so it suggests surface factors, jerkbrain or gaslighting jerks are more likely to be the big culprits.
Enail
Enail
Admin

Posts : 3997
Reputation : 2214
Join date : 2014-09-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Prajnaparamita on Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:33 pm

Okay Altach, now that I've had a little bit of time to read what you've written and think about it, I'm going to try to give you some preliminary thoughts on what might be causing people to read you this way.

First, you've mentioned trouble making eye contact, and I can totally understand why that might be the case. It sounds like you've had a lot of negative reenforcement around social interactions and now they've come to be something laden with fear and triggering for you, and although I normally have no problem at all making eye contact, once I get scared/overwhelmed/emotional enough, I can't do it anymore, I just shut down. That being said, deliberately not making eye contact can sometimes freak people out/make them read you the wrong way. Sometimes it comes across as rude, like you can't be bothered to give them your attention, but more often then not it comes off like you're staring. (I know, its weird that doing the opposite would come off that way, but let me explain.) When people involuntarily stare, and then get caught or realize what they're doing, they'll quickly look away from the other person's gaze out of embarrassment at realizing they've committed a social faux pas. And if you do the looking away thing enough, it seems like you must be constantly staring or doing something wrong and trying to cover it up. That and eye contact is just such a big part of our interactions that if it isn't there something just feels off, even if we can't put our fingers on it.

BUT I really don't want you to take this the wrong way, and start freaking out about how you need to be making eye contact, and start a spiral of anxiety around how you need to stop looking away! Its not your fault at all that you can't make eye contact at the moment--its not that you don't want it, it instead sounds like you're just so overwhelmed that you can't. I think becoming more confident, and comfortable in your own skin will allow you to address this, so please don't obsess about it now.

Also, I am not a medical professional or anyone with any professional knowledge in regards to mental health issues, all I can speak from is my own personal experience. So I really don't want to throw out words like "depression" to describe what you're experiencing, but I will say this--constant acute anxiety will take a toll on you, physically and emotionally. And it certainly sounds like this is happening--struggling to even walk or hold yourself up is serious. From what I was reading and understood, it seems like you physically can't find the strength to do it, and emotionally it just feels like you can't, because that's not you and you don't do things like that. Which I'm really sorry to hear, because that just sounds so exhausting and demoralizing, to face that every day.

I'm really glad that you have a therapist and you're finding that helpful, but I wonder if you need more help. Certainly a medical checkup wouldn't be amiss--I wouldn't want something that could be easily treated to be looked over--but I'm wondering if more specialized help in other areas might be able to take the edge off of some of this. Perhaps if you would be open to it some sort of focused Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to calm the repeated negative thinking that you're experiencing, and while I am wary of immediately suggesting someone look into psychiatric treatment (because meds will not solve everything, and they do sometimes have their drawbacks and side effects that need to be considered) there are some treatments that can help with social anxiety. But that is completely up to you. For now though, tell us if we can do anything else to provide you with support (given that we are not therapists or trained medical professionals).

Also your skull bowtie sounds cute. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.

_________________
Foster! It saves lives! And kittens! People will just give you kittens! For free!
Prajnaparamita
Prajnaparamita

Posts : 404
Reputation : 234
Join date : 2015-02-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Caffeinated on Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:45 pm

Enail wrote:It sounds to me like some of what is going on is that your style is unusual and not well-accepted in your area, and people who aren't used to it are jumping to extreme conclusions. But I suspect that, as well as just general prejudice against anyone who looks different, people might be finding your look intimidating and scary. Especially if you are a big guy or have a naturally angry-looking neutral expres​sion(or your anxious expression comes across as angry), a goth style (even corporate goth) can land up coming across as aggressive or hostile. So that might be a contributing factor that's not about you anything wrong, but that you can do something about compensating for.  

I agree with Enail on the goth style being one that can come across as intimidating and scary (to people who aren't also into the style). Black and red are power colors, and worn in combination send an unspoken message of being tough, intimidating, or warlike. Skulls send the same kind of message. Boots (I'm assuming goth type black boots or combat boots or the like) can do the same. All of those things when worn by a petite woman can come across as less threatening and more cute (women are rarely seen as threatening anyway), but on a man, especially if it's on a tall or broad man, can look extra intimidating.

That doesn't mean that your neighbors calling the cops on you for walking down your own street is in any way acceptable. That's some bullshit right there, and they should stop that nonsense immediately.

It does mean that in order for your look not to intimidate people, you may have to do some extra work. If you're the only goth in town, I might go so far as to recommend a total style overhaul to something more commonplace where you are. If you mostly hang out with other goths, then it would more of a tweaking of the details. Maybe add a couple other colors into your repertoire. Maybe drop the skulls for a more neutral or inviting symbol. Definitely spend a lot of time looking in the mirror and trying things on and noting how they look, and how different items work together in your look.

I would also recommend reading some books on body language. I think most people could benefit from learning more about body language, actually. Because so often the feelings inside just don't match with the look of the outside, and then people get the wrong message.

To address the second half of your initial post, about the contradictory messages about how not to be creepy... First, yes, there is a lot of info out there that contradicts other info out there. I think there are a couple main reasons for that. One reason is the individual perspective of the person giving the advice/info. And another reason is that different bits of advice are meant to reach different people who are doing or experiencing different things. From your description of your circumstances, it doesn't sound at all like you've been doing any of the things that are considered creepy behavior, so the advice about how not to do creepy behavior things are unlikely to be much use in your case. It occurs to me that there's the other, more traditional definition of the word creepy, which is more spooky like a haunted house. If the people describing you as creepy are totally non-goth, there's a chance they could be describing your gothness as creepy in the spooky way (as well as in the "that's different and I don't know if I can handle different" way).

Jedi hugs to you, and good on you for coming and talking about this even though it's scary.
Caffeinated
Caffeinated

Posts : 455
Reputation : 273
Join date : 2014-12-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by reboot on Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 pm

I can attest that goth style is intimidating to some people. There is this one young Hispanic guy I am friends of a friend with and she keeps trying to convince him to go to a goth bar, but he is terrified that he will get beaten up. This seemed weird to me because goths were never the unprovoked violence type (unprovoked poetry about death and bats maybe), but I suppose if you do not know....

That said, you can save the style for times when you are around like minded people and dial it back to little things in the day to day (e.g. slightly goth accessories) or work on smiling more and having a more open body posture.

On the staring, one thing that sometimes happens is you are so busy dodging eyes that you can forget where you are looking. So if you are trying to avoid looking at X it can leave you looking like you are staring at the body part of Y if you drop your eyes. Not that you even register what you are looking at because you are more worried about avoiding eye contact, but someone might think you are staring at their legs, butt, etc..

A trick I learned to avoid eye contact when I lived in places it was socially unacceptable to make it is to get a distance stare and look over shoulders when talking to people I wanted to appear an equal to (down, below knees and to the side if I needed to look subservient). It works well in the US as a way of avoiding engaging without looking off to others. You could try that.
reboot
reboot
Moderator of "Other Relationships" and "Gender, Identity and Society"

Posts : 2514
Reputation : 1005
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by AtlachNacha on Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:21 pm

Okay, lots to reply to, going to be selective with the quoting. (augh people keep posting while I'm typing this hurryhurryhurry)

Enail: It is perhaps worth mentioning that I am 6'2'' and rather broad shouldered. I have considered adding little touches to convey the idea of 'I am kind of a goofball and not really taking this TOO seriously.' and I'm open to ideas on that front.


Prajnaparamita: Oh god the eye contact thing makes perfect sense! I can totally see how that would... augh. Thanks, that's actually really helpful. I'll try and work on that.

ALSO: My official diagnoses are probably relevant information: panic disorder, generalized anxiety, ADD, and depression.

this:
Prajnaparamita wrote:Also your skull bowtie sounds cute. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.
Made me smile Grin
The funny thing is that NOBODY says otherwise, it pretty much seems to accomplish it's intended effect of injecting a bit of silly/cartoony into my outfit. Even my church organist grandmother liked it. I made it out of a cheap bandana I found at walmart and it is probably the sewing project I am most proud of now. I get compliments on it almost every time I wear it in public...

Okay, I'm noticing the more I talk about things and get everything organized into text the more it seems that my anxiety really IS inflating the problem a bit. It's still a major problem, but my initial post makes it sound almost like I don't talk to ANYONE EVER AND EVERYONE HATES ME AND EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE FOREVER BLAAAAGH. This is starting to seem almost managable.


Caffeinated: The idea of completely 'de-gothing' is a bit difficult for me to handle for a number of reasons. Firstly, I run into other people with my interests so rarely (though hardly never, I'm far from the only one in town.) that I want to be visible to them in the event that I do find them, and secondly because it is kind of part of who I am. I grew up surrounded by punks and goths and bikers and hippies from literally the day I was born and it's just... important to me. third, I feel a LOT more self conscious and stressed if I find myself in public wearing just a t-shirt and jeans. I feel exposed somehow.

I'll try and brainstorm more ways of toning it down a bit, though, If I have to I have to, I don't mean to seem like I'm arguing here, I do appreciate the advice. And yeah, skulls are only on a couple items in my wardrobe, I use them sparingly.

Can you recommend any specific books? I'll google around a bit in the meantime.

Also:
Caffeinated wrote:Definitely spend a lot of time looking in the mirror and trying things on and noting how they look, and how different items work together in your look.
describes pretty much my usual morning routine.


reboot: Forgetting where my eyes are may very well be some of the problem. My ADD means I tend to sort of... drift off without being aware of my surroundings.

That trick sounds... odd. Like it would still look unnatural or awkward in practice, but I'll try it and see how it goes.


OK, so eye contact seems like it's probably a huge component. One of my friends is the same way about eye contact, and I often find myself worrying that he's angry with me...


Thank you, everyone, for being so helpful and kind. I feel a lot less anxious, and I feel kind of silly for being so terrified initially.

AtlachNacha

Posts : 57
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2015-02-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Enail on Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:26 pm

Btw, AtlachNacha, if you want to reply to more than one post, you can use the multiquote button at the top of each post - if you click that button on each post you'd like to quote, when you go to reply by using the PostReply button (not the quick reply at the bottom of the page), all the posts you've selected will appear quoted there. (Or the way you're doing it works fine too!)
Enail
Enail
Admin

Posts : 3997
Reputation : 2214
Join date : 2014-09-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by reboot on Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:34 pm

AtlasNatcha, from experience, in the US that trick can make you look a bit spacey and distracted and occasionally like you are avoiding people. I always have a few days transition from places where I use it back to US eye contact norms and have had people ask me if I am preoccupied or avoiding someone. So it does not make you look friendly or "normal" (whatever that is), but it does not make you seem creepy or hostile. If asked/called on it, I just say I have a lot on my mind or am tired and spacey. Seems to erase any negative impressions. YMMV.
reboot
reboot
Moderator of "Other Relationships" and "Gender, Identity and Society"

Posts : 2514
Reputation : 1005
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Prajnaparamita on Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:41 pm

AtlachNacha wrote: (augh people keep posting while I'm typing this hurryhurryhurry)

Haha, don't worry about getting back immediately! We're just excited to have a nice new member! And the issues you're dealing with sound like they could be stuff we could help you brainstorm about.

AtlachNacha wrote:
It is perhaps worth mentioning that I am 6'2'' and rather broad shouldered. I have considered adding little touches to convey the idea of 'I am kind of a goofball and not really taking this TOO seriously.'  and I'm open to ideas on that front.

Yeah, that is worth mentioning, because you're over a foot taller than me and much bigger and stronger looking too, and that's just plain-out going to be intimidating at first glance in some situations, especially if you're a) wearing all dark clothing b) hunched over and c) avoiding eye contact, which makes it look like you have something to hide. I'm not sure whether or not you have a resting angry face, but I think maybe the initial bias that people have in their shallow snap judgements of you might dissipate if you can greet them with a friendly smile.  

AtlachNacha wrote:
Prajnaparamita: Oh god the eye contact thing makes perfect sense! I can totally see how that would... augh. Thanks, that's actually really helpful. I'll try and work on that.

Okay, but I just hope that you wouldn't make forcing yourself to make eye contact be a new source of anxiety--I don't want this to come of as "oh, it will just come naturally, don't worry" but I imagine that forcing yourself in social situations to go "Oh god gotta make eye contact must make eye contact need to make eye contact aaahhh" is probably not going to make things better. If its something that's helpful though to keep in mind as you brainstorm and gradually work towards gaining more confidence in social situations.

AtlachNacha wrote:
ALSO: My official diagnoses are probably relevant information: panic disorder, generalized anxiety, ADD, and depression.

I think this is slightly strange, but I often feel an affinity for those who share the same diagnoses as I, even if we have little else in common. (Add "on the spectrum" to that and you have my current official list.) Panic disorder, huh? That's not one that I hear all that often, and while all on that list suck, that one's particularly rough. Living your life in a slow motion panic attack is hellish.

AtlachNacha wrote:
Okay, I'm noticing the more I talk about things and get everything organized into text the more it seems that my anxiety really IS inflating the problem a bit. It's still a major problem, but my initial post makes it sound almost like I don't talk to ANYONE EVER AND EVERYONE HATES ME AND EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE FOREVER BLAAAAGH. This is starting to seem almost managable.

Don't worry about it at all! That's what anxiety is, growing and growing in your mind until everything is distorted. I mean, if there's nothing I can immediately do about the current trigger for my anxiety, I find articulating it by talking about it or putting it into writing really helps, because then I can take a step back and look at the facts of it objectively, outside of the echo chamber of my own brain. I know facing it initially to start that process of articulation really sucks, because it means facing into this horrible, nasty, no-good, shitty feeling and having to say what its saying, but I often find it the necessary first step towards dealing with it.

Plus this still does sound majorly shitty.

AtlachNacha wrote:
Caffeinated: The idea of completely 'de-gothing' is a bit difficult for me to handle for a number of reasons. Firstly, I run into other people with my interests so rarely (though hardly never, I'm far from the only one in town.) that I want to be visible to them in the event that I do find them, and secondly because it is kind of part of who I am. I grew up surrounded by punks and goths and bikers and hippies from literally the day I was born and it's just... important to me. third, I feel a LOT more self conscious and stressed if I find myself in public wearing just a t-shirt and jeans. I feel exposed somehow.

I'll try and brainstorm more ways of toning it down a bit, though, If I have to I have to, I don't mean to seem like I'm arguing here, I do appreciate the advice. And yeah, skulls are only on a couple items in my wardrobe, I use them sparingly.

Okay then, maybe don't focus on that aspect exclusively? (Though if you'd find it helpful you can post in our fashion subforum to get people's thoughts on how you might come across) I think just more welcoming body language might be able to help deflate some of the tension with people, plus realizing that some people are just biased against those they don't consider "normal" and haters gonna hate.


AtlachNacha wrote:
Thank you, everyone, for being so helpful and kind. I feel a lot less anxious, and I feel kind of silly for being so terrified initially.

Don't worry about it. Seriously. If someone comes here and politely and sincerely asks for help and advice, that's what we're going to try and provide.
Prajnaparamita
Prajnaparamita

Posts : 404
Reputation : 234
Join date : 2015-02-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Werel on Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:44 pm

Not much to add to everyone else's awesome advice, but I want to second the fact that you're not a horrible person for wanting to figure out what you're doing wrong! Kudos for having the courage to ask for help.

AtlachNacha wrote: I have considered adding little touches to convey the idea of 'I am kind of a goofball and not really taking this TOO seriously.' and I'm open to ideas on that front.

You ever listen to that episode of This American Life where Sarah Vowell decides to go goth, enlists the help of some goth kids to go shopping, and selects a pink item? "Pink Goth," the goths whisper, awed. "The highest level of goth there is. She's very advanced."

Just a thought: mixing in soft pastels might actually be the gothest thing ever, and might tone down the scare factor a little. (Although if you live in an extremely homophobic place, perhaps risky. Neutral)
Werel
Werel
Moderator of "Meeting People and Dating Advice"

Posts : 1951
Reputation : 1158
Join date : 2014-09-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Autumnflame on Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:05 pm

Werel wrote:Not much to add to everyone else's awesome advice, but I want to second the fact that you're not a horrible person for wanting to figure out what you're doing wrong! Kudos for having the courage to ask for help.

AtlachNacha wrote: I have considered adding little touches to convey the idea of 'I am kind of a goofball and not really taking this TOO seriously.' and I'm open to ideas on that front.

You ever listen to that episode of This American Life where Sarah Vowell decides to go goth, enlists the help of some goth kids to go shopping, and selects a pink item? "Pink Goth," the goths whisper, awed. "The highest level of goth there is. She's very advanced."

Just a thought: mixing in soft pastels might actually be the gothest thing ever, and might tone down the scare factor a little. (Although if you live in an extremely homophobic place, perhaps risky. Neutral)

I was actually going to suggest perhaps trying white goth. It'll still come off as gothy, but might be less intimidating on first glance than a 6'2" dude dressed all in black. Smile White shirt, white or silver blazer, white/silver vest, silver/grey pants, accessories to suit. You might get people thinking you're a bit pretentious, but you'll get people thinking that with regular goth stuff anyway, and it might dial down on the spooky factor non-goth-sympathetic people read.
Autumnflame
Autumnflame

Posts : 181
Reputation : 55
Join date : 2014-10-03

View user profile http://priscillakim.carbonmade.com

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by JP McBride on Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:43 pm

AtlachNacha wrote:I'm apparently really creepy. No matter what I do. I can't walk down the street that I live on after dark without getting the police called on me, when they get there they threaten to shoot me. If i go out in public women give me really creeped out looks and fast walk away from me, I've experienced female acquaintances telling our mutual friends that they're afraid i'm stalking them and going to rape them, i actually get women coming up to me just to tell me i look like a rapist... and these, half the time, are people I've never even interacted with, or if i have, am not interested in or attracted to, or in the case of the neighbors who keep calling the cops, never even SEEN.

Get a lawyer, preferably one with experience dealing with unlawful arrests and suing the police department. A lawyer will be able to do wonderful, magical things for you.

AtlachNacha wrote:One of the things i keep getting from DNL and similar sites is that i have an obligation to not be creepy... so... what do I do here? I keep googling around for advice on 'how not to be creepy' and everything i get is either obvious, (don't make sexual comments, don't touch her) or contradictory, (DO make sexual comments and touch her, or she'll think you're hiding your true motivation for talking to her) and almost always irrelevant, because usually I'm not talking to them, but then apparently sitting in a corner of a room at a party not talking to anyone because nobody has given me an approach invitation is also creepy. And then according to DNL you HAVE to make sexual innuendo and touch her if you do talk to her, because otherwise she'll conclude you're not interested in her, and you'll never get anywhere, but also that is creepy don't do it and round and round in an infinite loop.

Don't approach women. Let them come to you. Dating advice is for guys that don't have random chicks doing this to them:

AtlachNacha wrote:Now that I think of it, most of the few times I've had people actually flirt with me have been the rare occasions when I was actually smiling. Was still too scared to flirt back, though, seems silly in retrospect... "yes, she's running her fingers through your hair, but she'll probably be creeped out if you, god forbid, ask her name."

I'm pretty sure you could just make up a name for her and she's be cool with it.

JP McBride

Posts : 108
Reputation : 18
Join date : 2014-10-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by eselle28 on Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:47 pm

JP McBride wrote:
AtlachNacha wrote:One of the things i keep getting from DNL and similar sites is that i have an obligation to not be creepy... so... what do I do here? I keep googling around for advice on 'how not to be creepy' and everything i get is either obvious, (don't make sexual comments, don't touch her) or contradictory, (DO make sexual comments and touch her, or she'll think you're hiding your true motivation for talking to her) and almost always irrelevant, because usually I'm not talking to them, but then apparently sitting in a corner of a room at a party not talking to anyone because nobody has given me an approach invitation is also creepy. And then according to DNL you HAVE to make sexual innuendo and touch her if you do talk to her, because otherwise she'll conclude you're not interested in her, and you'll never get anywhere, but also that is creepy don't do it and round and round in an infinite loop.

Don't approach women. Let them come to you. Dating advice is for guys that don't have random chicks doing this to them:

AtlachNacha wrote:Now that I think of it, most of the few times I've had people actually flirt with me have been the rare occasions when I was actually smiling. Was still too scared to flirt back, though, seems silly in retrospect... "yes, she's running her fingers through your hair, but she'll probably be creeped out if you, god forbid, ask her name."

I'm pretty sure you could just make up a name for her and she's be cool with it.

<mod>JP McBride, it is unacceptable on this forum to respond to requests for advice with things along the lines of, "I wish I had your problem." If you don't have constructive advice for AtlachNacha, refrain from commenting. Consider this a formal warning.</mod>
eselle28
eselle28
General Oversight Moderator

Posts : 1994
Reputation : 999
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Creeping everyone out no matter what I do. Empty Re: Creeping everyone out no matter what I do.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 6 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum