Re: High Libido, Low Drag [vent/disc]

[Guest]

Mikey, I don't know if you are a reader, but you might enjoy Girls of Riyadh. It is a story of love and marriage modern Saudi style. It might answer some of your questions about how people fall in love online and how you can marry someone you never met

Ooh. I'll have to check it out, thanks!

[Guest]

This is... somewhat related to the previous topic at hand about dating/meeting people from online and whatnot. Remember how I spoke of Finnish Friend? I seriously would like to go visit them -- with no real intentions/expectations of anything considering we're kinda looking for different things, but hey I wouldn't mind -- the problem visiting a European nation is kinda pricey. Any ideas on how to get funding for such an endeavor?

Initially, I thought flying out of major airports for inexpensive flights was bullshit. Boy was I wrong. Looking on Kayak for flights from LAX to Helsinki -- as opposed to flights from San Diego to Jyvaskyla -- roundtrip, were cheap. As in, under $1000 cheap, but with lodging, transport and food, I could easily rack up $1000+ which is okay with me since I'd be in Finland chillin' & shit.

From what Finnish Friend has told me the Finns are rather introverted and direct. Hell, they sound like my kind of people.

[Jayce]

I don't know if this exists in America, but there are small flight centres that specifically cater to helping students that are looking to travel to different countries on a budget, usually these places are called Student Flights, they can help you look into different options available, however you do need to show them your student card though to get benefits.

[Guest]

I don't know if this exists in America, but there are small flight centres that specifically cater to helping students that are looking to travel to different countries on a budget, usually these places are called Student Flights, they can help you look into different options available, however you do need to show them your student card though to get benefits.

Maybe I should sign up for a 1-unit class. Sadly I'm no longer a college student, but I still have my student ID. I'll look into it, thanks!

[Guest]

I guess this is a problem within me or maybe where I'm looking and I'm just being stubborn and stupid.

Context/Background: Through a lengthy email exchange last year with OTG (or OneTrueGuest for those of you who don't remember) she suggested I'm most likely an old soul seeking another old soul. At the time I didn't put much thought into it since I was just feeling like absolute shit and not really in a mindset to think clearly or rationally. However, looking through yet another Tinder-esque app, Bumble, I think she may be right.

It's hard to say it, but I really don't think I can relate to many of the young women my age for one reason or another. Whether it's interests and hobbies or the lousy music we like (music seems to be an unnecessarily contemptuous subject). Though it is equally strange that when I can relate and we do have shit in common, they don't want anything to do with me.    It's hard to put into words what I'm thinking/trying to say/feeling but I guess maybe I'm too different, maybe too off-beat, I don't really know. What I do know is, I'm definitely not what women are looking for at all by any stretch of the imagination on top of them just not being interested.



I had more to say especially since reading the virginity post DNL put up. All in all, it's just easier to call [me] stupid. Ah, well, back to arts-ing.

[reboot]

Maybe you should expand your age range to see if you click with older women?

[Guest]

Maybe you should expand your age range to see if you click with older women?

Oh yes, I'm definitely not opposed to older ladies! And yeah I've looked at older women online and off, I think older ladies are a real treasure.

Typically, from what I've seen and ladies have told me, they know what they want out of a man, which is great, I really like their directness/honesty. The caveat to that though is they're not shy to tell me in the slightest that *I'm* not what they're looking for. I don't feel too bad because it disqualifies a bunch of other dudes in my age bracket too. ;D All in all, it's totally okay, we all have our likes and dislikes and we know for the most part what we want out of a partner.

However... having set those parameters, having gone through OKC, tinder, etc. and speaking to the older single women at work (across my last two jobs) the consensus amongst older women is: younger guys are bad news, ages vary, but the idea is still the same. Even when I was in high school, my 10th grade English teacher thought early 20s guys were trouble (she was 26 then). They're definitely not wrong... though the most trouble I'd give an older woman is probably that I don't have a better paying job.

I guess what really bums me out is I never got sow my own wild oats and sleep around when I was younger. Or knew anyone willing to. Hah, what a silly Mikey.

[Guest]

Hmmm... maybe I should lay off the porn for a few days. Feeling petty hungry for physical touch, in particular of the affectionate kind. Ya know, like cuddles. Don't worry about virtual hugs or cuddles, I'm just getting off my chest how I've been feeling these last few days. In the meantime, here, have a listen to my new favorite Bowie song.

[Guest]

I think I might have a casual thing/meeting with someone I met from tinder on Wednesday. After roughly 2.5 years of trudging through that, so that's nice, but nothing is completely set in stone.

I feel like I should be more excited about this since she's on the nerdy side of things too. Whatevs, I think they'd be a good pal too.

[Enail]

Awesome, Mikey! Hope it goes well!

[Guest]

Awesome, Mikey! Hope it goes well!

Hehe thanks. I don't expect much to come out of it, but hanging out with someone new and cute is cool. 

Just not sure if I should snapchat them just keep the momentum going...

[Werel]

Niiiice! Hope it's a fun time!

[Guest]

Aww thanks, Werel. :3

And Oh cool, she snapchatted me first! Sent me a pic of pizza I sent her a pic of left over ham sammiches I was eating.



(I'm totally kidding about things being serious, but she did send me a pic of pizza, looked delicious af)

[Guest]

So, Tinder Girl got back to me today asking if I was still down for lunch. I said I was, but let her know that I probably wouldn't eat anything since my tummy wasn't doing so well (which is true, 12am Taco Bell is probably the worst idea, don't judge me Taco Bell is delicious).

In all, as of now, our meeting's postponed until I feel better.  I told her it's all right and that I'm feeling fine, just have an upset tummy. But she insisted I took a sick day anyway, that was sweet of her. I'm not sure if we will meet up or not though in the future. -shrug- Either way, I'm not torn up about this at all.

Take-aways from this:

1. It's a girl I met on Tinder and people tend to be flakey or bots, but still treat them kindly. The hoomans respond kindly as well unless they're jerks or bots, you can tell pretty much right away once they send a message. But it's also tinder, people are there for a reason and you're not dating the person you match with immediately. So, while I may have set up a meeting with a girl from there, I wouldn't be surprised I'm the slightest if i wasn't only dude she was talking to there.

2. I really need to learn to be maybe a bit more aggressive/assertive but I also need to overcome my fear of coming off as a weirdo/creeper. I see a lot of stories and screenshots of guys who are obviously only trolling for sex on Tinder, that's fine. The app was originally designed for that, but it's become something else now which is also fine. So, now I'm guessing in order to get better at tinder you need to sorta need to do some asking out sooner rather than later.

Which is what I did with this recent tinder match, I asked if she was down for a beer or coffee after I got off from work. Which led me to today and she seems like a cool gal (nerdy and into Disney), but I kinda screwed up with the momentum I think. What I mean by that is I didn't want to overload or scare her off with snapchats in order to show her that "Hey, I exist, I didn't forget about you and I still think you're cute." 

2 1/2. I really need to get the idea of being a weirdo/creep outta my head. However, given the shit women have to deal with online and off its hard for me to express my wants which is usually a super casual date/meet up within a few days. That's nothing terribly nasty or weird, but I feel kinda scummy asking after being so friendly to them and them being so sweet and friendly to me. I just don't want them to think I'm a jerk. 

3. I seriously need to learn how to fucking flirt. I really do, I don't know how and I feel kinda crappy about it. Though maybe it's easier for me to do in the flesh than in text I dunno. Wry humor can only get me so far in text, but I need to learn how to flirt via writing. Maybe I'll practice with Finnish friend over Skype if she's cool with it, I dunno.  

Does typing out words with extra letters really mean a girl or guy is into you? I've read that when young women text "Heyyyy" or something equally silly means she's into a guy. Is there any weight to this at all? Because Finnish friend also does something similar.

4. Instinct takes over almost instantly. Feels kinda awesome, actually. Consulting others doesn't hurt, but once I get past the initial nervousness, my more assertive natural mayun instinct kicks in. That's something I've noticed when I plan stuff with another female friend of mine, even though we're platonic buddies I usually plan everything. They're almost like practice dates now that I think about it.  

I'm sure there's more but this getting absurdly long, so I'll wrap it up quickly.

tl;dr didn't go out with tinder girl, I need to learn to be more assertive, need to unlearn my fear of being weird/creepy, need to seriously learn how to flirt, my natural mayun dating instinct is awesome feeling.

[Werel]

Glad she was cool about postponing, and that you handled it like a champ, not being at all torn up about it! (Though, personally... I would probably not want to know any details about a potential date's gastrointestinal troubles. "Sick" is enough data. )

2 1/2. I really need to get the idea of being a weirdo/creep outta my head. However, given the shit women have to deal with online and off its hard for me to express my wants which is usually a super casual date/meet up within a few days. That's nothing terribly nasty or weird, but I feel kinda scummy asking after being so friendly to them and them being so sweet and friendly to me. I just don't want them to think I'm a jerk.

This idea that there's something scummy about asking someone to get coffee has got to go. People are on Tinder to get dates. You are asking people on dates. You are literally just using the tool for its intended purpose. There's nothing that's not "sweet and friendly" about extending an invitation to meet; in fact, it's kind of the definition of "friendly" to invite someone to establish a connection. By, you know, meeting up. To be friendly to each other. If they end up thinking you're a jerk for some reason, it's not going to be because you invited them to go get coffee.

Does typing out words with extra letters really mean a girl or guy is into you? I've read that when young women text "Heyyyy" or something equally silly means she's into a guy. Is there any weight to this at all?

Noooooooope.

Seriously have never heard of this. It would mean that I'm into basically all of my friends, which I am not.

Consulting others doesn't hurt, but once I get past the initial nervousness, my more assertive natural mayun instinct kicks in. That's something I've noticed when I plan stuff with another female friend of mine, even though we're platonic buddies I usually plan everything. They're almost like practice dates now that I think about it.

It can indeed be awesome to find assertiveness inside yourself, HOORAY!, and I don't want to rain on that-- but also, a friendly warning: there is some gendered stuff around planning you might want to be careful about. A lot of girls, even assertive ones, frequently find themselves steamrollered/not-consulted about plans by dudes they're hanging out with, maybe due to the Mayun Instinct you're referring to. If the individual girl you're chilling with really is just one of those "hates to plan" people, sure, pick up that slack and do what you're good at. But maybe err on the side of consultation, as a habit? Not "I dunno, what do YOU want to do?" indecisiveness, but making sure the other person's preferences and needs are part of the planning process, even if you're the one being proactive about making the plans. And give the other person a chance to be assertive, too-- assertiveness may be natural to some people, but it ain't a mayun-exclusive feature. Many women would be pleased and surprised to find a dude who gave them an opening to be the assertive one in date-planning (YMMV as always, but my experience says that more women dislike being steamrolled than dislike someone being too solicitous of their preferences).

[Guest]

Glad she was cool about postponing, and that you handled it like a champ, not being at all torn up about it! (Though, personally... I would probably not want to know any details about a potential date's gastrointestinal troubles. "Sick" is enough data. )

Of course! In fact, postponing was her idea, so I rolled with it. Though the main reason I'm not torn up about it at all was because it was something rather low-investment, nothing to get too worked up about. And yes, I didn't give her any other details than "upset tummy".

This idea that there's something scummy about asking someone to get coffee has got to go. People are on Tinder to get dates. You are asking people on dates. You are literally just using the tool for its intended purpose. There's nothing that's not "sweet and friendly" about extending an invitation to meet; in fact, it's kind of the definition of "friendly" to invite someone to establish a connection. By, you know, meeting up. To be friendly to each other. If they end up thinking you're a jerk for some reason, it's not going to be because you invited them to go get coffee.

Yeah, that's for sure what Tinder, OLD and whatnot is used for, of course. And yes, the scummy idea is something that has to go for sure as well, however I can't help but feel like I'm not doing the asking correctly. Even if it's something pretty innocuous like a coffee or beer. I've learned to use my words when asking out, in this case I didn't say date and that was on purpose. It was more for me to see if she was comfy meeting a rando (ie, me) from Tinder. I don't want her to think I'm after one thing and one thing only (ie, sex & go) or that I'm asshole.

In all honesty it's just a weird train of thought because I'm genuinely not accustomed to asking women out for dates. I've done it enough times to know how to do it, more or less, but I'm still not quite comfy with doing it because I don't want her to think I'm a weirdo or creepy. I've read enough horror stories by younger women who've felt deeply uncomfortable with being asked out either in the flesh or online by either randos or young men they know/are familiar with. And that ain't me, as in, I don't want to be known as "that" guy. Ya feel?

Noooooooope.

Seriously have never heard of this. It would mean that I'm into basically all of my friends, which I am not.

I read it on an article somewhere either on The Verge or on Motherboard, or some joint, that men who type straight out with very little variance in their typing in either internal emails or text are seen as colder or some weird shit like that. In the same article or maybe another one, I had read that elongated syllables in some words were like a way for women to show interest via text or something? I dunno.

It can indeed be awesome to find assertiveness inside yourself, HOORAY!, and I don't want to rain on that-- but also, a friendly warning: there is some gendered stuff around planning you might want to be careful about. A lot of girls, even assertive ones, frequently find themselves steamrollered/not-consulted about plans by dudes they're hanging out with, maybe due to the Mayun Instinct you're referring to. If the individual girl you're chilling with really is just one of those "hates to plan" people, sure, pick up that slack and do what you're good at. But maybe err on the side of consultation, as a habit? Not "I dunno, what do YOU want to do?" indecisiveness, but making sure the other person's preferences and needs are part of the planning process, even if you're the one being proactive about making the plans. And give the other person a chance to be assertive, too-- assertiveness may be natural to some people, but it ain't a mayun-exclusive feature. Many women would be pleased and surprised to find a dude who gave them an opening to be the assertive one in date-planning (YMMV as always, but my experience says that more women dislike being steamrolled than dislike someone being too solicitous of their preferences).

Huuoh, there's always some subtext I didn't account for.

All righty, but here's where it gets a little confusing, I was under the impression women on average preferred there being a date activity planned with some flexibility, since if the mayun already has it planned it shows he's confident and decisive rather than indecisive (I try to actively fight against indecisiveness within myself). As in the case with my platonic friend I'll definitely ask if she's okay with a certain activity, I'll text her, "Hey you free $day?" she says "Yessirr" or whatever and I'll say "We're gonna go to $place at $time, is that cool with you? Or is there something else you wanna eat/do?" Or something to that extent and that's usually met with an enthusiastic "Yep!", but that's just her, she likes her men to know what they want. So you're right, mileage may vary.

Otherwise, I'm more than happy to let them plan out an activity or date. If they got something else in mind, god yes, please let's hear it! Then I can focus on being more romantic/lovey & shit. But for now, me being a man and me being the asker-out-of-dates-er I think I'll stick to planning the first date and if for any subsequent dates that may result she wants to plan something I'll go ahead and let her do that.

[Enail]

I read it on an article somewhere either on The Verge or on Motherboard, or some joint, that men who type straight out with very little variance in their typing in either internal emails or text are seen as colder or some weird shit like that. In the same article or maybe another one, I had read that elongated syllables in some words were like a way for women to show interest via text or something? I dunno.

It's just a more colloquial and expressive way to write. It doesn't say anything more than that they want to come off more casual than formal with you and sound more like they're talking.

[Guest]

It's just a more colloquial and expressive way to write. It doesn't say anything more than that they want to come off more casual than formal with you and sound more like they're talking.

Yeah, that makes sense for sure. Sadly, the tonality of what's said gets lost in the written word so sometimes something jokey can be taken badly unless of course the two folks exchanging email know eachother well enough. 

Isn't technology fun?

[Wondering]

As in the case with my platonic friend I'll definitely ask if she's okay with a certain activity, I'll text her, "Hey you free $day?" she says "Yessirr" or whatever and I'll say "We're gonna go to $place at $time, is that cool with you? Or is there something else you wanna eat/do?" Or something to that extent and that's usually met with an enthusiastic "Yep!", but that's just her, she likes her men to know what they want. So you're right, mileage may vary.

Here's something else to take into account. A lot of this is in how you phrase it. You know your platonic friend and what she likes, so what you described above works for her. But if a guy I was going on a date with, especially a first date, said, " We're gonna do X thing at Y time, is that okay with you?" that would come across to me as very domineering. Because, even though you ask at the end, you're starting it with a statement that she had no say in: "We are doing this!" If instead you say, "How about if we do X thing at Y time?" then that still shows you've got definitive plans in mind but are asking her first instead of telling her. And, of course, this is a mileage varies thing. This one is my mileage as something to keep in mind.

[reboot]

My favorite phrasing is, "I was thinking of doing A or B (with A and B both being things I think the other person would like), or anything you'd like to do. Are you up for A or B, or is there something else you would prefer?"

This gives them 2 options to choose from or to figure out level of time commitment (e.g. drinks at 1-3 hours vs. hike 3-5 hours) if they want to pitch alternatives. Oh, and pro tip, for new acquaintances, accept whatever they propose even if it is not your first (or 50th) choice.

[Guest]

Just so you guys are clear, when I was talking here:

Consulting others doesn't hurt, but once I get past the initial nervousness, my more assertive natural mayun instinct kicks in. That's something I've noticed when I plan stuff with another female friend of mine, even though we're platonic buddies I usually plan everything. They're almost like practice dates now that I think about it.

I meant consulting with outside friends (or you guys) for advice on what I should do next or say and then letting instinct kick-in in the flesh. So, I misspoke earlier when talking about planning stuff in my reply to Werel, so sorry about that.



As for first date stuff, I always ask plain and simple "You wanna go on a date sometime?" or some variation of that with an activity tossed in perhaps with further details hammered out by both of us a little bit later if it gets that far. Otherwise, I've made a point to myself to keep a very basic/bare bones date plan just in-case they ask me on the spot.

Here's something else to take into account. A lot of this is in how you phrase it. You know your platonic friend and what she likes, so what you described above works for her. But if a guy I was going on a date with, especially a first date, said, " We're gonna do X thing at Y time, is that okay with you?" that would come across to me as very domineering. Because, even though you ask at the end, you're starting it with a statement that she had no say in: "We are doing this!" If instead you say, "How about if we do X thing at Y time?" then that still shows you've got definitive plans in mind but are asking her first instead of telling her. And, of course, this is a mileage varies thing. This one is my mileage as something to keep in mind.

No no, you're right, that is too domineering.

But let's slow down for a moment, I screwed up in my phrasing, that's definitely not what I'll say to a first date, it's usually a simple date asking. I was confused for a moment and I understand overall what you and Werel are saying, take her into account which I do. Me just stating outright we're gonna do X thing at Y time is extremely uncharacteristic of me. If I saying anything like that as a statement, it's because it has been agreed upon by both myself and the other person beforehand. I had to look back at texts between me and Platonic Friend and I realized that I was completely wrong in how those interactions went even with them. I asked them about everything and that assertiveness was me confirming with them that they were ready and okay with the plan set forth.

So, I'm sorry if I caused any confusion or gave you guys a scare about how I go on about asking for dates. Don't worry, I'm still a respectful dude. Awkward and slightly misguided at times, but respectful.

My favorite phrasing is, "I was thinking of doing A or B (with A and B both being things I think the other person would like), or anything you'd like to do. Are you up for A or B, or is there something else you would prefer?"

This gives them 2 options to choose from or to figure out level of time commitment (e.g. drinks at 1-3 hours vs. hike 3-5 hours) if they want to pitch alternatives. Oh, and pro tip, for new acquaintances, accept whatever they propose even if it is not your first (or 50th) choice.

Ah yeah, with Tinder Girl I offered a simple chat over coffee or beer, but I guess making it clear anything they'd like to do is also valid. I just don't want to come off as indecisive or inconsiderate. D:

And yes, if they propose something else maybe even something off-beat, I'll give it the old college try.

[reboot]

Best way to look decisive is to say, "I have been wanting to try A or B, but am....(same script as earlier)" You express an interest in activity A or B (or location A or B if same activity) and ask what the other person wants to do. 9 times out of 10, if you tailor A and B to their interests they will pick one of them. If you get something that makes you go ???? odds are you are not compatible

[Guest]

Best way to look decisive is to say, "I have been wanting to try A or B, but am....(same script as earlier)" You express an interest in activity A or B (or location A or B if same activity) and ask what the other person wants to do. 9 times out of 10, if you tailor A and B to their interests they will pick one of them. If you get something that makes you go ???? odds are you are not compatible

Yeah, that makes sense. In all the times I've asked women out, I've almost always tailored my dates around their interests if I know them well enough. Though if I don't know them well enough, a simple coffee or beer date is adequate enough.

But like I said earlier, that's if I get that far.

[Werel]

I meant consulting with outside friends (or you guys) for advice on what I should do next or say and then letting instinct kick-in in the flesh. So, I misspoke earlier when talking about planning stuff in my reply to Werel, so sorry about that.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, there comes a point when all the advice in the world can't take the place of good intuition, so keep cultivating that! And offering a couple of well-tailored options is generally a solid approach. Just gotta keep getting to the point of asking people on actual dates.

[Guest]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, there comes a point when all the advice in the world can't take the place of good intuition, so keep cultivating that! And offering a couple of well-tailored options is generally a solid approach. Just gotta keep getting to the point of asking people on actual dates.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Eventually I have to think for myself and act accordingly while taking other's advice into account. And yes, there won't be substitutes for well-tailored dates either, though a coffee/beer meetup/chat is something I'd use to gauge her interests and plan out a fullblown date around those details.

And yes actually asking for dates helps. But you know, hangups.

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