Genshiken

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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:27 pm

Saki and Kousaka in that episode!   Shocked rofl Heart
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Werel on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:35 pm

Chapters 45-48 spoilers:
1) Damn, Ogiue backstory delivered. It's cool to see a fairly realistic, humane exploration of girls being sexually creepy (even in ways that could be pretty innocuous, if handled appropriately, but could also be disastrous if handled inappropriately--and what are teenagers great at if not handling their sexual business inappropriately?) and that creepiness having real negative consequences for others as well as the perpetrator. Between being a scrupulous self-shaming weirdo and being thunderstruck in love with elephants, I gotta say I'm pretty firmly on Team Ogiue right now. Razz

2) Holy cow, chapter 47... Embarassed I'd never been very invested in Sasahara, but the way he handled that situation was enormously endearing. So introspective! So nonjudgmental! So reasonable and supportive! Such a good lesson for everybody about finding partners with whom you can be deeply, terrifyingly honest!

3) BAHAHA THAT EPISODE

I can't say I'm familiar with yaoi tropes at all, but I think I still got like 80% of the intended hilarity. (Though not being familiar with yaoi tropes, I guess I can't quibble with the choice of personas for the various dudes, but that is not what I'd have assumed for Madarame). And holy fuck, yes, Saki and Kousaka. Laughing But why did poor Kugapii have to lose 200 lbs to be worthy of inclusion? I'M CALLING SIZEISM

4) Guys... w...what the hell is a forehead fetish? Uh-oh
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:56 pm

Werel wrote:
Chapters 45-48 spoilers:
1) Damn, Ogiue backstory delivered. It's cool to see a fairly realistic, humane exploration of girls being sexually creepy (even in ways that could be pretty innocuous, if handled appropriately, but could also be disastrous if handled inappropriately--and what are teenagers great at if not handling their sexual business inappropriately?) and that creepiness having real negative consequences for others as well as the perpetrator. Between being a scrupulous self-shaming weirdo and being thunderstruck in love with elephants, I gotta say I'm pretty firmly on Team Ogiue right now. Razz

I found some things about Ogiue less than convincing early on, which made me have a hard time warming to her as a character long afterwards, but that part was dead dead dead on. The author has an unusually subtle grasp on how and why people go about being awkward and inappropriate.

Spoiler:

2) Holy cow, chapter 47... Embarassed I'd never been very invested in Sasahara, but the way he handled that situation was enormously endearing. So introspective! So nonjudgmental! So reasonable and supportive! Such a good lesson for everybody about finding partners with whom you can be deeply, terrifyingly honest!

That was epic-level handling things skill. I think he pretty much just ascended to a higher plane right then and there.


3) BAHAHA THAT EPISODE

I can't say I'm familiar with yaoi tropes at all, but I think I still got like 80% of the intended hilarity. (Though not being familiar with yaoi tropes, I guess I can't quibble with the choice of personas for the various dudes, but that is not what I'd have assumed for Madarame).

You may have a fair bit of quibbling (or rather 'can't quibble'-ing) coming up, then. Razz


And holy fuck, yes, Saki and Kousaka. Laughing But why did poor Kugapii have to lose 200 lbs to be worthy of inclusion? I'M CALLING SIZEISM

Grin Evil Yaoi Saki and Kousaka may be my favourite characters in the entire thing.


4) Guys... w...what the hell is a forehead fetish? Uh-oh

I assume like any other fetish, but about foreheads? Shrug
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Re: Genshiken

Post by bomaye on Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:11 pm

Spoiler:
"I liked you better when you had pride."
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Werel on Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:11 am

bomaye wrote:
Spoiler:
"I liked you better when you had pride."

Yuuuuuup Laughing
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Suika on Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:17 am

Enail wrote:
WRT the harem hijinks, the author isn't just throwing in a harem as an anime cliche, he's also playing with the characters being people who process their emotions through anime cliches. It's not not harem hijinks, but there is more to it than that.

Even so, it gets a bit awkward when the characters in a "nerd manga" evolve into more successful beings than myself.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:58 am

Suika wrote:
Enail wrote:
WRT the harem hijinks, the author isn't just throwing in a harem as an anime cliche, he's also playing with the characters being people who process their emotions through anime cliches. It's not not harem hijinks, but there is more to it than that.

Even so, it gets a bit awkward when the characters in a "nerd manga" evolve into more successful beings than myself.

They find it pretty awkward too. Razz  

More seriously, I'm not crazy about the idea that someone having a bunch of people attracted to them automatically makes them "a more successful being." Success can mean lots of different things.

And...it's a manga. How many works of fiction, especially ones in this general genre, have you read where awkward nerds don't land up having excessive romantic hijinks at some point in the story? Feeling awkward about that is sort of like beating yourself up for not having sparkles and cherry blossoms falling around you - understandable (why don't I get cherry blossoms and sparkles!), but comparing apples and oranges in a way that can be kind of harmful.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by bomaye on Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:58 pm

About the successful part (this is a spoiler, Werel, don't look)

Spoiler:

Madarame doesn't even believe the harem is real half the time, routinely screws up every moment the harem tries to get close to him, and at one point gets extremely exasperated because he literally changed nothing and did nothing special to "deserve" the harem.

Basically, this is not a successful man finally figuring out ladies (and ladyboys), it's a dude who had something randomly happen to him and he mostly hates it because it shouldn't even be happening :p
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Suika on Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:36 pm

Enail wrote:
They find it pretty awkward too. Razz  

More seriously, I'm not crazy about the idea that someone having a bunch of people attracted to them automatically makes them "a more successful being." Success can mean lots of different things.

And...it's a manga. How many works of fiction, especially ones in this general genre, have you read where awkward nerds don't land up having excessive romantic hijinks at some point in the story? Feeling awkward about that is sort of like beating yourself up for not having sparkles and cherry blossoms falling around you - understandable (why don't I get cherry blossoms and sparkles!), but comparing apples and oranges in a way that can be kind of harmful.

Oh, that much is obvious, but when the original charm for a manga is how well you are able to relate to some of the characters, it sorta loses some of its pull on you.

Spoiler:

I'm still going to enjoy it once I read it though, since I'm already reading the spin-off; Spotted Flower.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:41 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean. But I think the author does a pretty good job of still keeping the characters pretty relateable and themselves, even though the situation changes to something a little less familiar IRL, you might not find it too disappointing. ETA: Or, what Bomaye said. Razz

Careful on spoilers, btw, I don't think Werel's read up to the point where Spotted Flower's basic premise wouldn't be a bit of a spoiler.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Werel on Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:05 pm

Kuchiki as Lupin at the cosplay event... Laughing

I can't put my finger on just why, but this panel evokes all the bittersweet drunk-on-a-holiday heartache I think it's supposed to. Something about Saki disappearing into shadow, the hesitant angle of his arms, her hair. Well-drawn page.

WAAAUUUGGHHH CHAPTER 53. Heart Crying Heart I CAN'T HANDLE IT.

I think I need to re-read chapter 54 (the one with no words) a couple times to catch the entirety of what's going on, but the spilled photos were fairly self-evident. I'm surprised there was no followup, and that the below-linked conversation could even happen after that without massive awkwardness, but maybe she thought they were Ohno's? Or maybe alcohol takes care of all such awkwardness?

HAH! My goodness. I'm not sure I even really get the nuances of what moe is, but "it's been a while since I saw that truly creepy otaku underbelly" indeed.  

(Sidenote, apparently Madarame is moe? Whatever moe is? But Saki doesn't have any moe? Does one have moe, or be moe?)

And gosh, that's the end of Genshiken 1. Those four years sure did fly by. I'm going to miss the old crew, but I guess I'll attempt to get invested in the new characters. Razz
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Suika on Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:52 pm

Werel wrote:
(Sidenote, apparently Madarame is moe?

Obviously, who wouldn't want to protect a guy like that?
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Werel on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:03 pm

Oh, okay, if moe is largely about protectiveness, then gosh yes, I think half the point of Madarame is to make the reader want to intervene on his behalf. But also, if that's what moe is about, then... Saki is moe. At the very least, at the Puyopuyo cosplay moment. Laughing
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:09 pm

Werel, moe is a kind of cute that invokes a desire to protect or comfort.  More usually applied to female characters, but not always.  Interestingly enough (or at least, I find it interesting!) the regular Japanese word for cute has the same root as the word for pitiful, both coming from a connotation of vulnerability, so even though it's an anime term, what it's representing isn't exactly a new way of thinking.  

And that silent chapter! I usually have a hard time enjoying silent comics, but somehow I found the lack of words worked really well there to give an almost painful nostalgic feeling that I don't think would have come through so strongly with words.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by bomaye on Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:45 am

Chapter 53 was one of those special chapters that really makes something that's good into something that's GREAT. One of my "Big Four" chapters Smile (so far)
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:35 am

bomaye wrote:Chapter 53 was one of those special chapters that really makes something that's good into something that's GREAT. One of my "Big Four" chapters  Smile  (so far)

I can think of two others that are probably them,

Spoilers for 2nd gen:

The sushi one and when Madarame actually confesses,

but what's your fourth one?

More spoilers!:
Unless it's where Keiko tries to seduce Madarame?
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Re: Genshiken

Post by bomaye on Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:46 pm

Yup, yup, and yup Grin
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Re: Genshiken

Post by litterature on Tue May 05, 2015 7:07 am

Is there a scanlation of chapters 103 and 104 around somewhere? I can't seem to find them anywhere, since for some reason the usual places just have 96 and 97 instead...

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Re: Genshiken

Post by bomaye on Tue May 05, 2015 8:26 am

Problem solved Smile
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Tue May 05, 2015 12:17 pm

The site I was reading did that, and I was so sleepy that day I got confused and landed up rereading it 3 times before I figured out why it didn't make sense and seemed familiar! Uh-oh
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Werel on Mon May 11, 2015 12:29 am

Been slogging through 2, and trying to give a crap about the new people, but... mostly it's just waiting for old characters to show up. Honestly, the new crew just doesn't have the same interpersonal sparkle, and they aren't as interesting as individuals (even Hato, who I guess is supposed to be The Interesting One, doesn't feel like a fully fleshed-out person). I'm on chapter 71; does it get more engaging at some point? Is this the Genshiken we get for the rest of the series?  Neutral
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Re: Genshiken

Post by bomaye on Mon May 11, 2015 2:37 am

Keeeep going. Chapter 80 is the chapter to end all chapters. Post Chapter-80 shenanigans are great if you like an awkward nerd utterly failing to capitalize on a dream scenario because he just can't figure his spaghetti out. Early 100s are a personal highlight. RIP Good Ship [redacted]

As for the newbies, hit or miss. I find you're either interested in what Hato's trying to figure out or not. Yoshitake is starting to find a niche that isn't "peppy underclassmen" but she's had the weakest time so far (unless you count Sue as new). Yajima has the most room for personal growth and it's hard not to pull for her, especially when you contrast her with Hato.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Enail on Mon May 11, 2015 9:07 am

I also found Hato a little less solid-feeling a character, and took a while to get interested in the newbies in general - I think you're right in the thicket of stuff I found sort of dull and random and contrived-feeling, but you're so close to getting out of those particular woods. They do get more developed, though there are some plots that I continue to not have much interest in. And there is definitely going to be plenty of stuff you'll find worth waiting for.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by Werel on Wed May 13, 2015 9:32 pm

bomaye wrote:Yajima has the most room for personal growth and it's hard not to pull for her, especially when you contrast her with Hato.

Actually, yeah, I am warming up to Yajima. She's shown the most integrity and willingness to stick up for other people (esp. Hato, who she has some reason to be prickly towards), and her big doofy fails are kind of endearing. And her femininity travails resonate. Razz

But more importantly: Oh my GOD. Chapter 80. Hooooooly cow.

Spoiler:
I'd spoilered myself a little by watching a YouTube clip of the anime version, way back before I started reading it, but the manga hit it above and beyond the anime. Like, in the anime, did she say "there might have been a future like that"?? Because that's a big deal.

God, and Madarame's refusal to just say it is so perfect. Will. Not. Say it. Even at the expense of Kasukabe's comfort. His getting a chance to legitimately upset her with his reticence/defenses is such a nice touch for that scene.

The drawings are so lovely in that chapter too. The look on Madarame's face right after blurting out the nose hair line (page 23?) reminds me so much of my favorite comic compilation cover ever.

And Kousaka! KOUSAKAAAA!! Redeemed forever as more than just a ditzy prettyboy, but an empathetic, intuitive, kind friend! Like, the kind of friend most people don't get! Fuck me, I want to stencil his face on alley walls for the way he played it! Including all the hilarious fooling around with the RL harem route. Laughing

Auughh. Yeah. I'd be lying if I said that chapter didn't make me tear up a little and that I didn't feel some lingering RL bittersweet relief after finishing it. Good shit.

Chapter 81: "Everyone is doing their best to try to cheer me up. So just like old times, I'll just let loose and start rambling."

Perfect perfect perfect way to cap off this whole arc. Couldn't be better. HeartHeartHeart

Now I'm really looking forward to an awkward nerd utterly failing to capitalize on a dream scenario because he just can't figure his spaghetti out.
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Re: Genshiken

Post by bomaye on Wed May 13, 2015 11:53 pm

For Werel

Spoiler:

Spotted Flower aka "The Future Like That" (except the author insists it totally isn't, guys)

some NSFW, and it's only a quarterly manga instead of a monthly
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