The "Rude to the Server" Test and Other Yellow Flags

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Post by eselle28 on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:27 pm

We have a thread about dealbreakers discussing more generally desired and undesired traits as well as some things people consider to be big red flags, but many people also have small things they watch for as signals of values or character. I think most people have learned to watch for someone who's unkind to service staff. Do people have any others?

One of the ones that tends to work pretty well for me as a dealbreaker is littering. It's not the biggest thing in the world by itself, but it tends to give me a pretty good idea if the other person and I relate the same way toward public property and common social resources. This one isn't as good of a prediction, but I've found that telling someone that I'm generally too busy at work to text in the mornings and then seeing how well that guideline is followed gives me some hints about whether someone can handle the up and down nature of my work, which tends to look as if I'm not that busy at times and then can change quickly and require boundary-setting.
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Post by waxingjaney on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:37 pm

Social drinking and drugging (including tobacco) correlates well to a variety of traits I find unappealing.
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Post by reboot on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:39 pm

Not tipping is one for me. It shows a lack of awareness in economic reality. No close friends or familial relationships would be another. I would be somewhat cautious about someone who had no close relationships at all
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Post by nearly_takuan on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:46 pm

Not really for dating or whatever, but I form a lot of conclusions about people based on small samples of observed behavior. I like the guy standing flush with a small niche in the wall on the train, more than I like the skinny guy who's still sitting in an aisle seat when the person next to him has left and the rest of the train is crowded, knowing nothing else about either one.
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Post by Caffeinated on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:50 pm

It's funny, but I can't really think of any yellow flags that I can't immediately think of someone who's an exception.

I guess there's religious belief. It doesn't mean I can't like or be friends with someone who is a believer (no matter what the faith), but it typically means there's a limit to how close we can ever really get. It's like at some point I encounter this invisible barrier.
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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:04 am

An obvious one is, as already mentioned, treating staff like crap. Any staff of any business, really. I think a lot of techie guys I know are so aggro because they cop ridiculous amounts of shit from customers.

Really strict adherence to any religion is a bit of a flag that a relationship won't happen. At least, not a good one.

Some lifestyle choices, like veganism, would makes things difficult and act a flag for absolute incompatibility.

Anti-intellectual behaviour is a big one too.

Tipping would count for me, but it's not necessary in Australia to get by. It's a specific kindness, which I try to practice. So, it's more of a green flag if it's done than a yellow flag if it's avoided.

Lastly, that I can think of, is a general 'work sux' attitude and, therefore, a disrespect for dedication to work. Work's a big deal for me. That kind of attitude signals that there's going to be a lack of respect towards how I spend my time and the enthusiasm I have for it.

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Post by UristMcBunny on Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:38 am

Speaking over me or interrupting me in a conversation, where it's clearly a habitual thing rather than just them getting very excited about the subject matter. That and being unable to discuss a subject with someone who disagrees with them, without getting aggressive or shouty.

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Post by Autumnflame on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:26 pm

Talking over me is a big one. I don't know if it's necessarily red-flaggy so much as it's so unappealing it turns me off significantly, at least for a relationship.

Talking crap about some vague stereotype of "Tumblr users" is another. Or really, talking crap about any subaltern group that they don't belong to and are traditionally easy to pick on.

For guys, not having any female friends (at least, if they strike me as generally sociable; people who don't hang out with a lot of people in general get a bit more of a pass) or otherwise good relationships with women in their life makes me approach with caution. Actually also similarly true for women, come to think, but I've rarely encountered those.

Only having bitter breakups or bad exes, for those who've had multiple relationships - makes me quirk a brow.
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Post by reboot on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:35 pm

Autumnflame wrote:.....
Talking crap about some vague stereotype of "Tumblr users" is another. Or really, talking crap about any subaltern group that they don't belong to and are traditionally easy to pick on.

For guys, not having any female friends (at least, if they strike me as generally sociable; people who don't hang out with a lot of people in general get a bit more of a pass) or otherwise good relationships with women in their life makes me approach with caution. Actually also similarly true for women, come to think, but I've rarely encountered those.

Only having bitter breakups or bad exes, for those who've had multiple relationships - makes me quirk a brow.

Ohhhh! These are all good. I add them to my list
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Post by Enail on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:36 pm

Talks a lot about how they hate drama. IME, that's nearly a 100% correlation with 'creates drama' (as opposed to 'deals with conflict in appropriate ways', not as opposed to 'favours keeping the peace at any cost' )
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Post by reboot on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:39 pm

Tagging on to the drama line, someone who cannot admit that they were at fault or bear any responsibility for a bad outcome. This applies to all relationships, not just romantic/sexual
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Post by eselle28 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:46 pm

reboot wrote:Tagging on to the drama line, someone who cannot admit that they were at fault or bear any responsibility for a bad outcome. This applies to all relationships, not just romantic/sexual


Oh, yeah, I've seen that and it's been a good sign that I don't want to date, be friends with, or work with someone.
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Post by fakely mctest on Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:39 pm

Time problems. (chronically late, difficulties keeping track of their own schedule) There are a bunch of reasons why this can happen but I'm wary of people expecting me to keep track of everything because it's often a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation: you don't and you end up stood up (true story!), you do and you're a naggy buzzkill.

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Post by InkAndComb on Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:04 pm

So glad I'm not the only one who's wary of guys with no lady friends!
Other points of concern; they "dont understand" cats/dislike them. I find this to be a personality indicator more than people's opinions on dogs.
People who use "feminist" as an insult.
People who say "I may seem like an asshole but you'll like me once you get to know me"
People who make "joking" comments about abuse or assault ("Man I totally raped that guy in halo!").  Some people throw around rape jokes but this really puts me on edge, even with the nice people who have done it.

People who nonironically talk about the decline in proper parenting (and are not parents).

People who make broad generalizations of poor/middle class individuals, people struggling with addictions, people from unconventional homes, and families that have struggled with addiction. Double points if they offer unreasonable solutions ("Just get a job already!")

People who scoff at adoption (I am adopted so this tends to make me go cold).
People who insist I want children.
People who bring up religion as a casual conversation topic (this also goes for issues like gay marriage, abortion, poverty etc, outside of an appropriate context).  Polarizing controversial issues show a lack of respect of boundaries for me when they are asked in settings that an individual can't speak freely (work, certain class settings like math, etc).

People who bring up sex and if discomfort is expressed, make fun of the person beyond normal teasing ("don't be so frigid!").
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Post by TheRoux on Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:05 pm

- Always on their phone when being with other people. Makes it seem they're not really enthousiast being there. My little sister has a word for it: "cybershit"

- Always seem to forget date and times of activities. Always need to be reminded or risk them not showing up. It's worse when it's for reccurent activities at regular intervals, like a D&D session.

- When people use sentences like "You don't know what you're talking about. Come back once you've finished school" in a discussion/debate. No! No! No! If you're not willing to make the effort of giving you point of vue with clear explanations and rebuttals, you have no right to take part in the discussion.

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Post by reboundstudent on Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:34 pm

A yellow flag for me is a guy who won't recognize when I am deeply uncomfortable. I have a very expressive face, so either he's willfully ignoring my signals, or he cannot read my signals.

For example, years ago I and a guy were going on a 2nd date. We agreed to meet at his place and then carpool. Turns out by "carpooling" he meant "take my scooter." I have... somewhat high anxiety around driving, and that's in a car. A scooter? Oh hell no. So I say multiple times "Oh that's okay, I can take my car." "I can drive if you want." "How about you take your scooter and we meet up there?" Each time he slaps down my suggestion and insists I ride with him. I was so terrified; I think I spent the entire 20 minute ride silently crying out of fear. We get there and he says "See, wasn't so bad, right?"

Yeah, you don't get to force me to do "new" things just because you think I need to expand my horizons.

PS: Dr. NL's theory that fear while around a potential dating partner increases attraction and libido does not freaking work on me. Even a small amount of fear is enough to slam down the lid on my libido box.
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Post by Caffeinated on Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:39 pm

reboundstudent wrote:A yellow flag for me is a guy who won't recognize when I am deeply uncomfortable. I have a very expressive face, so either he's willfully ignoring my signals, or he cannot read my signals.

For example, years ago I and a guy were going on a 2nd date. We agreed to meet at his place and then carpool. Turns out by "carpooling" he meant "take my scooter." I have... somewhat high anxiety around driving, and that's in a car. A scooter? Oh hell no. So I say multiple times "Oh that's okay, I can take my car." "I can drive if you want." "How about you take your scooter and we meet up there?" Each time he slaps down my suggestion and insists I ride with him. I was so terrified; I think I spent the entire 20 minute ride silently crying out of fear. We get there and he says "See, wasn't so bad, right?"

Yeah, you don't get to force me to do "new" things just because you think I need to expand my horizons.

PS: Dr. NL's theory that fear while around a potential dating partner increases attraction and libido does not freaking work on me. Even a small amount of fear is enough to slam down the lid on my libido box.

Wow, that guy was so rude! I don't like DNL's fear increasing attraction theory either. Fear makes me either shut down and pull back, or get really angry. No attraction there. And that goes for scary movies too. I avert my eyes even at horror previews.
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Post by eselle28 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:46 pm

reboundstudent wrote:A yellow flag for me is a guy who won't recognize when I am deeply uncomfortable. I have a very expressive face, so either he's willfully ignoring my signals, or he cannot read my signals.

For example, years ago I and a guy were going on a 2nd date. We agreed to meet at his place and then carpool. Turns out by "carpooling" he meant "take my scooter." I have... somewhat high anxiety around driving, and that's in a car. A scooter? Oh hell no. So I say multiple times "Oh that's okay, I can take my car." "I can drive if you want." "How about you take your scooter and we meet up there?" Each time he slaps down my suggestion and insists I ride with him. I was so terrified; I think I spent the entire 20 minute ride silently crying out of fear. We get there and he says "See, wasn't so bad, right?"

Yeah, you don't get to force me to do "new" things just because you think I need to expand my horizons.

PS: Dr. NL's theory that fear while around a potential dating partner increases attraction and libido does not freaking work on me. Even a small amount of fear is enough to slam down the lid on my libido box.

I get a little buzz from fear, but only when it's a shared little buzz. Doing something that's scary to me and routine to someone else is not fun in the same way.

And, yeah, scooter guy was a huge asshole. So many people aren't comfortable on those, especially not when they're driven by someone whose driving habits are unknown. This is a lesser offense, but it also sounds really inconsiderate. What would have have done if you'd arrived at his place wearing a short skirt or something else not very scooter friendly?
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Post by InkAndComb on Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:59 pm

People who don't take no for an answer is my number one! I had a guy like that too reboundstudent, except he wanted me to go "midnight stargazing" and "insisted I allow him to pick me up". When I said no repeatedly, he ended up with this line of "Oh well let me get off work, maybe I can change your mind Wink"

We had gone on one date. Holy butts.
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Post by readertorider on Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:39 am

Enail wrote:Talks a lot about how they hate drama. IME, that's nearly a 100% correlation with 'creates drama' (as opposed to 'deals with conflict in appropriate ways', not as opposed to 'favours keeping the peace at any cost' )

There's an xkcd for that! The scroll-over text is especially good IMO.

reboundstudent wrote:A yellow flag for me is a guy who won't recognize when I am deeply uncomfortable. I have a very expressive face, so either he's willfully ignoring my signals, or he cannot read my signals.
I have this one too--I start to wonder if he's self-absorbed or just bad at facial signals. For me that's pretty easy to find out by seeing what he does when I say no or that I'm uncomfortable.

At the same time though I'm also wary of people who want to whisper my feelings back to me. Even if their Alethiometer makes my feelings transparent, my feelings are only one input in my decision making process and I want someone to support me in my decisions not argue with me about my feelings.
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Post by caliseivy on Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:16 pm

I haven't decided for certain whether this is a yellow flag, or a red flag; it seems to vary on my mood.
In the process of chatting me up (and asking me my relationship status) reminding me of my biological clock and how unsafe having kids after 3[X] years is.
The alert goes off in my head, but I can't really put to words what I could think it means about that person.
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Post by Enail on Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:22 pm

caliseivy wrote:I haven't decided for certain whether this is a yellow flag, or a red flag; it seems to vary on my mood.
In the process of chatting me up (and asking me my relationship status) reminding me of my biological clock and how unsafe having kids after 3[X] years is.
The alert goes off in my head, but I can't really put to words what I could think it means about that person.

It strikes me as very presumptuous, and probably calculated to make you feel more pressure to find a partner ASAP, such as, oh, say, the person chatting you up right that moment. Manipulative.  Also, just a weird thing to mention while chatting someone up, like, how would they even bring that up??
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Post by reboot on Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:42 pm

Enail wrote:
caliseivy wrote:I haven't decided for certain whether this is a yellow flag, or a red flag; it seems to vary on my mood.
In the process of chatting me up (and asking me my relationship status) reminding me of my biological clock and how unsafe having kids after 3[X] years is.
The alert goes off in my head, but I can't really put to words what I could think it means about that person.

It strikes me as very presumptuous, and probably calculated to make you feel more pressure to find a partner ASAP, such as, oh, say, the person chatting you up right that moment. Manipulative.  Also, just a weird thing to mention while chatting someone up, like, how would they even bring that up??

Also what is up with assuming someone wants kids?
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Post by caliseivy on Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:46 pm

Wait that's not normal to run into?? Wow I guess I run into all the guys who would ever do that.

I suspected it was a manipulation tactic every time it happened but then the guy falls silent and doesn't follow through with an offer for a date or anything so there's just awkward silence until he moves on.

Maybe I'm going to make that a red flag now...
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Post by eselle28 on Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:17 pm

caliseivy wrote:I haven't decided for certain whether this is a yellow flag, or a red flag; it seems to vary on my mood.
In the process of chatting me up (and asking me my relationship status) reminding me of my biological clock and how unsafe having kids after 3[X] years is.
The alert goes off in my head, but I can't really put to words what I could think it means about that person.

Oh, I'd say that's a red one. To me, that sounds like an attempt to make you feel insecure and consider agreeing to dates/relationships/being treated in ways you don't want.
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