Do women ever try to aggressively and actively pursue/woo/seduce men in the context of casual dating or casual sex?

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Post by The Wisp on Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:29 pm

Thanks for the interesting perspectives everybody!

It does seem that generally women only pursue if you get into a social group with lots of single people of both sexes and sex-positive values and in certain party/bar/club scenarios. And, it seems my initial description was very extreme and unrealistic. But they do pursue in the right situations. It does seem to be not as common among undergrad age women, though (that seemed to be subtext, correct me if I'm wrong).

Still, it seems contingent on having the right kind of social circle, and winding up in such a group with the traits all required seems very luck-based (sex-positive, good gender ratios, casual sex is acceptable within the group, everybody's a cool and ethical person (pre-vetted), lots of people in a similar age range, etc. all the while having some non-sexual common interest(s) drawing you together).

reboundstudent wrote:What is amusing is that the guys don't seem to realize that; they really were unable to see when they'd been "maneuvered" into making a move. It's like I always say, men see "passive" flirting and women not doing anything, because they don't recognize the sheer Evil Genius level social maneuvers and nuances women use to get the guy.

I'm really curious what you mean by this. Can you give some examples or just elaborate on it? (honestly, I'm picturing a set of highly complicated, cynical moves with narrations of their strategic thoughts at the fourth wall interspersed in the middle, Kevin Spacey-style Razz)

Werel wrote: construct this pretentious Shakespearean lover/subject explanation for myself is because I see very few examples in RL or pop culture of women who feel similarly (it'd be so much easier if there were some simple shorthand equivalent to "I'm a total Carrie" Laughing), and it makes me feel like a little bit of an odd duck. I don't think it's all that common, but I wish you the very best of luck in finding women who fit that mold, if it's what you're most interested in.

According to caffeinated's article, it does indeed seem uncommon for both genders Disapproving

kath wrote:Wisp, do you think you'd be comfortable kinda taking on some of the Evil Machinations RBS mentions? Or would that ruin the fantasy?

No, because the point is that the woman is demonstrating interest and lust and that she wants me as much or more than I want her, and demonstrates those explicitly. If I feel like I had to manipulate her or "maneuver her", that's more a reflection on my machiavellian social skills than my attractiveness or desirability. EDIT: (I guess I get off on being desired which, according to Caffeinated's link, is uncommon for my gender)

I think in practice the desire would be met even if the the flirting is more equal than what I implied, but with the woman still being the more active party. It seems like standard flirting and lead-up to sex, especially among the really young (late teens - early 20s) still have the man doing more of being the one desiring, the one trying to convince her he's worthy, the one who's more openly invested and more openly lustful, etc. There's reciprocity there, but the man seems to usually be the (pardon the sexual metaphor) "top" of the flirting while the woman is the "bottom". A good bottom during sex will reciprocate and be active and such, but the top is still the top.

Honestly, I think I would also be fine with very mutual flirting and escalation, it just seems like the vast majority of people, especially ones my own age, buy into the model where the guy initiates, "sells" himself in front of a relatively coy woman, he tells her how awesome and attractive she is and takes an interest in her, and then she maybe touches him or something or gives other signs, and then the guy makes his move. I would hate to be the guy in that scenario, even discounting approach anxiety. Yeah, it's probably in actuality more subtle and balanced than that, but it seems the general orientation of the roles applies and I'd still dislike it.

Is it so much to want a woman who will "make a move" on me, rather than the reverse? To be confident and explicit? That seems like a more realistic desire, based on what others have said. It does seem like in certain social circles, at least, that pattern isn't expected or the default, thankfully.

Ah well this is all purely theoretical for me at this point anyways  Crying
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Post by kath on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:10 am

The Wisp wrote:Still, it seems contingent on having the right kind of social circle, and winding up in such a group with the traits all required seems very luck-based (sex-positive, good gender ratios, casual sex is acceptable within the group, everybody's a cool and ethical person (pre-vetted), lots of people in a similar age range, etc. all the while having some non-sexual common interest(s) drawing you together).

Why do you think this would require luck? It's quite possible that the people in these types of social circles built them intentionally, and that you might be able to put some effort into finding this type of circle (or building one). This is not a type of social circle I've ever looked for, so I'll leave it to others to talk about how to do it.

The Wisp wrote:
reboundstudent wrote:What is amusing is that the guys don't seem to realize that; they really were unable to see when they'd been "maneuvered" into making a move. It's like I always say, men see "passive" flirting and women not doing anything, because they don't recognize the sheer Evil Genius level social maneuvers and nuances women use to get the guy.

I'm really curious what you mean by this. Can you give some examples or just elaborate on it? (honestly, I'm picturing a set of highly complicated, cynical moves with narrations of their strategic thoughts at the fourth wall interspersed in the middle, Kevin Spacey-style Razz)

I think she means those passive things you were talking about - looking the right way, bringing sex up in a conversation in a way that seems natural / random, engineering social situations to give her time to get to know the person she's interested in, employing eye contact judiciously, all those subtle flirting skills. The same things I avoid doing.


kath wrote:Wisp, do you think you'd be comfortable kinda taking on some of the Evil Machinations RBS mentions? Or would that ruin the fantasy?
The Wisp wrote:No, because the point is that the woman is demonstrating interest and lust and that she wants me as much or more than I want her, and demonstrates those explicitly. If I feel like I had to manipulate her or "maneuver her", that's more a reflection on my machiavellian social skills than my attractiveness or desirability. EDIT: (I guess I get off on being desired which, according to Caffeinated's link, is uncommon for my gender)

I think in practice the desire would be met even if the the flirting is more equal than what I implied, but with the woman still being the more active party. It seems like standard flirting and lead-up to sex, especially among the really young (late teens - early 20s) still have the man doing more of being the one desiring, the one trying to convince her he's worthy, the one who's more openly invested and more openly lustful, etc. There's reciprocity there, but the man seems to usually be the (pardon the sexual metaphor) "top" of the flirting while the woman is the "bottom". A good bottom during sex will reciprocate and be active and such, but the top is still the top.

Honestly, I think I would also be fine with very mutual flirting and escalation, it just seems like the vast majority of people, especially ones my own age, buy into the model where the guy initiates, "sells" himself in front of a relatively coy woman, he tells her how awesome and attractive she is and takes an interest in her, and then she maybe touches him or something or gives other signs, and then the guy makes his move. I would hate to be the guy in that scenario, even discounting approach anxiety. Yeah, it's probably in actuality more subtle and balanced than that, but it seems the general orientation of the roles applies and I'd still dislike it.

Well then that's why you would need to learn those techniques that women tend to employ, so that women who would be interested in pursuing would know you were interested in it. I don't think that's totally unreasonable to want, and I don't think it's something you can't do. Women have to learn those skills, you can too!
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Post by eselle28 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:17 am

The Wisp wrote:
Is it so much to want a woman who will "make a move" on me, rather than the reverse? To be confident and explicit? That seems like a more realistic desire, based on what others have said. It does seem like in certain social circles, at least, that pattern isn't expected or the default, thankfully.

I think that seems like a more realistic desire than the fantasy seduction, and I know a considerably larger number of women who are up for taking on that role than those who'd be up for a more full scale seduction.

This isn't a normative thing so much as teasing some things out, but I'm curious how you'd feel about a woman who was taking on the traditionally male role to enough of an extent that you could tell she was approaching and initiating, but who was performing it the way that a nerdy but non-creepy guy might rather than how someone executing Doctor Nerdlove's techniques perfectly might. It's clear she's hitting on you and desires you, but you can also tell that she's nervous and she flubs things a bit. Obviously this isn't the most attractive sort of approach, but it might be worth thinking about whether it's the attitude (wanting to take charge, actively desiring you and wanting to impress you) or the skill level (knowing the right things to say, being good at hiding anxiety) or both that would be a requirement for you. Approaching as a woman involves a lot of the same skill sets and anxieties as approaching as a man, and as with very young men, very young women aren't necessarily going to be very practiced at it. Which isn't to say that you can't want both skill and attitude, just that skill and youth together are going to be a rarer combination.
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Post by Caffeinated on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:33 am

The Wisp wrote:
kath wrote:Wisp, do you think you'd be comfortable kinda taking on some of the Evil Machinations RBS mentions? Or would that ruin the fantasy?

No, because the point is that the woman is demonstrating interest and lust and that she wants me as much or more than I want her, and demonstrates those explicitly. If I feel like I had to manipulate her or "maneuver her", that's more a reflection on my machiavellian social skills than my attractiveness or desirability. EDIT: (I guess I get off on being desired which, according to Caffeinated's link, is uncommon for my gender)

I think that using the machinations RBS mentions is perfectly congruent with getting off on being desired. I mean, that's literally the traditional feminine role in things, to want to be desired and to therefore do those behind the scenes sorts of things to present oneself as desirable and maneuver oneself into a position that will attract the attention of someone to do said desiring. If you want to know what it looks like to do that kind of machinations, my favorite fictional example is Scarlet O'Hara in Gone With The Wind (book more than the movie, as you get more of an internal viewpoint.)
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Post by eselle28 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:48 am

Caffeinated wrote:
I think that using the machinations RBS mentions is perfectly congruent with getting off on being desired. I mean, that's literally the traditional feminine role in things, to want to be desired and to therefore do those behind the scenes sorts of things to present oneself as desirable and maneuver oneself into a position that will attract the attention of someone to do said desiring. If you want to know what it looks like to do that kind of machinations, my favorite fictional example is Scarlet O'Hara in Gone With The Wind (book more than the movie, as you get more of an internal viewpoint.)

Eh, I think I kind of get what this fantasy is. The female equivalent wouldn't be so much being Scarlett O'Hara as being Bella Swan, with someone coming along and deciding they want you intensely just for you as you're going about your business and being your everyday self, without you either approaching them directly or using more traditionally feminine wiles to attract their interest. Whatever studies say about actual dating preferences in the real world, media suggests that this fantasy is reasonably popular among men as well as women, or at least there seems to be a lot catering to it. It's just that it's a fantasy that tends to stay in fantasy, mostly, because the Edward Cullen side of things doesn't have a lot to recommend it.


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Post by Conreezy on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:50 am

But they do pursue in the right situations. It does seem to be not as common among undergrad age women, though (that seemed to be subtext, correct me if I'm wrong).

Sorry to be late, but I thought I would just add that my experiences in this regard have always been with women of late 30s to early 40s.  Usually, but not always, with lots of alcohol involved.

Is it so much to want a woman who will "make a move" on me, rather than the reverse?

I don't think so, but I really wouldn't bank on it.  I think learning to pick up (and interact with) the less-than-full-throttle cues would be a better idea.  Looking back at my youth, I missed so many opportunities to respond to what I know now were understandably subtle indications of sexual interest because I was too busy waiting for neon signs.  

I got one once: from a married woman who just wanted to cheat on her husband while on vacation with her kids.  Back then, I just wanted the attention and she aggressively provided it.  (I'm not too proud of that one nowadays.)  

If I feel like I had to manipulate her or "maneuver her", that's more a reflection on my machiavellian social skills than my attractiveness or desirability.

Those social skills are only machiavellian if they're not authentic.


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Post by nearly_takuan on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:55 am

Conreezy wrote:Those social skills are only machiavellian if they're not authentic.

It is far too easy to turn that one into a circular definition. Razz
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Post by The Wisp on Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:09 am

Caffeinated wrote:I think that using the machinations RBS mentions is perfectly congruent with getting off on being desired. I mean, that's literally the traditional feminine role in things, to want to be desired and to therefore do those behind the scenes sorts of things to present oneself as desirable and maneuver oneself into a position that will attract the attention of someone to do said desiring. If you want to know what it looks like to do that kind of machinations, my favorite fictional example is Scarlet O'Hara in Gone With The Wind (book more than the movie, as you get more of an internal viewpoint.)

There's the idealized and unrealistic fantasy that eselle sketched that would be ruined by that. However, when you put it that way, it probably wouldn't ruin it and it could possibly be fun in it's own way (though some tactics wouldn't transfer genders well; there's not much sexually-coded clothing for men, for instance, so alternatives would be needed).

eselle28 wrote:This isn't a normative thing so much as teasing some things out, but I'm curious how you'd feel about a woman who was taking on the traditionally male role to enough of an extent that you could tell she was approaching and initiating, but who was performing it the way that a nerdy but non-creepy guy might rather than how someone executing Doctor Nerdlove's techniques perfectly might. It's clear she's hitting on you and desires you, but you can also tell that she's nervous and she flubs things a bit. Obviously this isn't the most attractive sort of approach, but it might be worth thinking about whether it's the attitude (wanting to take charge, actively desiring you and wanting to impress you) or the skill level (knowing the right things to say, being good at hiding anxiety) or both that would be a requirement for you. Approaching as a woman involves a lot of the same skill sets and anxieties as approaching as a man, and as with very young men, very young women aren't necessarily going to be very practiced at it. Which isn't to say that you can't want both skill and attitude, just that skill and youth together are going to be a rarer combination.

Oooo, interesting.

It's hard to know because this is all in theory and the specifics would matter, but I think that I care more about the attitude than the skill. The skill is preferable, and there is probably a low threshold below which a lack of skill could ruin it, but yeah it's much more about the attitude. A bumbling approach could be endearing or cute, even. But even if it wasn't, I would have a ton of compassion for it and I doubt it would ruin it (again, assuming it was above a basic threshold).
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Post by reboot on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:47 am

I might be the outlier on this, but my women friends did most of their picking up men for casual sex in undergrad and right after when we were still of an age that hitting bars and clubs was new and interesting. The venues and social scenes were not especially sex positive either. They were just places with a lot of younger people, booze and music (either live or DJ). These places are pretty easy to find, but probably most suited to people that like crowds and loud music.

EDIT: I think I identified my outlierness. Most of what I am talking about happened in the 1990s-early 2000s when third wave feminism was newer. At that time many younger women took it to mean that you had to show that you could have sex as casually and emotionlessly as men are stereotyped as doing, so there was a period where "find em, fuck em, forget about em" was common in certain circles. Thinking back, many of these liaisons were handled very cruelly on the part of my friends (e.g. asking a guy why they would want his number after sex) because they were mimicking the worst stereotypes of men during casual sex. I think this is also why it stayed out of the friend group
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Post by reboundstudent on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:49 am

kath wrote:
The Wisp wrote:
reboundstudent wrote:What is amusing is that the guys don't seem to realize that; they really were unable to see when they'd been "maneuvered" into making a move. It's like I always say, men see "passive" flirting and women not doing anything, because they don't recognize the sheer Evil Genius level social maneuvers and nuances women use to get the guy.

I'm really curious what you mean by this. Can you give some examples or just elaborate on it? (honestly, I'm picturing a set of highly complicated, cynical moves with narrations of their strategic thoughts at the fourth wall interspersed in the middle, Kevin Spacey-style Razz)

I think she means those passive things you were talking about - looking the right way, bringing sex up in a conversation in a way that seems natural / random, engineering social situations to give her time to get to know the person she's interested in, employing eye contact judiciously, all those subtle flirting skills. The same things I avoid doing.

Yes-ish. The engineering social situations is the most common one I see; like becoming friends with his friends so she can be around him. I'm horrible at social engineering, but when I've tried it in the past, it's been things like "Oh you mentioned you need help on your resume! I'm really good at resume building, why don't we grab some coffee and discuss it?" Or "Hey I'm just happening to throw this party for no particular reason, you should totally come." Or "Oh my gosh, I just do not get this <technical issue>, I hear you're really good at <technical issue>, can you help?"

Flattering his ego, steering him into being around or alone with her, seeking him out for seemingly unrelated things. It's hard to explain because I see it and I recognize it, but I can't fully explain it since I'm not good at it myself.

Wisp, I can kind of relate as I have a somewhat similar desire (to be pursued without having to do the approaching), but I DO think it's unrealistic to expect someone to ardently pursue you and want you more than you want them without doing SOME kind of external work. Whether that work is being undeniably gorgeous, exuding a general feeling of sexuality and sensuousness, or being a social Machiavelli. Echoing Conreezy, these maneuvers are only manipulation if they're inauthentic. In the case of my own maneuvering and what I've seen, the feelings of "I want this person" were very authentic... it was just a way to kind of foster a connection and enhance potential chemistry.

Essentially, if I want to be hit on, I have to make myself available for being hit on. Thus, I tried to create scenarios where hitting on me would be either easier, or more plausible.
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Post by rj3 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:09 pm

Long time listener, first time caller! I thought now would be as good a time as any to de-lurk, so here goes.

I'm probably a little bit older than you, which means that I can be both mostly unlucky/awkward in dating yet have a decent amount of successes under my belt. There have been a few occasions in which women will actively/aggressively peruse you. For me, they broke down as follows:

1) Nerdy/awkward girls who don't really know what they're doing. I had a neighbor like this once when I lived in a big apartment building. We met at a building party. Having perhaps had a bit too much to drink, I was flirty and, if I do say so myself, a bit charming. We both left separately and I forgot about it for a few days until we suddenly started running to each other in the hallways and elevators. In the cold light of sobriety, I had no physical attraction to her. Though I was polite, I didn't lead her on during these run-ins, which had to be manufactured given their frequency over a roughly two-week period. I was a bit cold and mechanical, and purposefully so, which seemed to do the trick and get her back on her normal schedule. This pursuit was unwanted on my end, but I would have appreciated her tenacity had I really wanted to see her again.

2) Women who are frustrated when the subtle coded signaling doesn't work. I went to a party at the house of a woman with whom there was mutual interest. Like others have said, the groundwork had been laid (though I had not Smile ). Being a bit shy, I hadn't made a move yet. As the party wound down, she started shooing people out, and it was taking a while. I was tired, and tried to leave, but she wouldn't let me say goodbye. It got to the point at which she threw herself in front of the door. We ended up going out for a few months afterward. She chalked this up to frustration combined with liquid courage.

3) Freak bar occurrences. Out to make a guy jealous, girls will make out with the first available dude. I've seen it happen. Once, it was me. Don't put your money on it.

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Post by eselle28 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:34 pm

reboundstudent wrote:
Yes-ish. The engineering social situations is the most common one I see; like becoming friends with his friends so she can be around him. I'm horrible at social engineering, but when I've tried it in the past, it's been things like "Oh you mentioned you need help on your resume! I'm really good at resume building, why don't we grab some coffee and discuss it?" Or "Hey I'm just happening to throw this party for no particular reason, you should totally come." Or "Oh my gosh, I just do not get this <technical issue>, I hear you're really good at <technical issue>, can you help?"

Flattering his ego, steering him into being around or alone with her, seeking him out for seemingly unrelated things. It's hard to explain because I see it and I recognize it, but I can't fully explain it since I'm not good at it myself.

Ah, yes, this behavior. I've seen a lot of this from women (and also from men who don't like to ask women out) it can range from helpfully creating social opportunities to fruitlessly waiting for someone who's not going to make a move to do so to creepy Nice Girling. Thumbs up to the creating social opportunities, obviously thumbs down to the Nice Girling, and at some point in the middle I think people need to be nudged to either do the asking out themselves or drop the pursuit in favor of one with more potential.

I think this might end up confusing guys, because a lot of behavior that doesn't work for them and that they get pushed away from is toward the fruitlessly waiting and Nice Guying end of the spectrum. It's more the creating social opportunities stuff that could be helpful to a man who wants to be pursued, I think. Also, I think mainstream advice tends to push men toward asking a woman out when things get to the plateau period. For a guy who wants to be pursued, I'd suggest changing the advice to the "cut your losses and find someone else to focus your flirtation on" message that women who don't like to ask men out get.
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Post by Caffeinated on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:53 pm

reboot wrote:EDIT: I think I identified my outlierness. Most of what I am talking about happened in the 1990s-early 2000s when third wave feminism was newer. At that time many younger women took it to mean that you had to show that you could have sex as casually and emotionlessly as men are stereotyped as doing, so there was a period where "find em, fuck em, forget about em" was common in certain circles. Thinking back, many of these liaisons were handled very cruelly on the part of my friends (e.g. asking a guy why they would want his number after sex) because they were mimicking the worst stereotypes of men during casual sex. I think this is also why it stayed out of the friend group

Oh, the 90s. This gave me flashbacks to college (graduated with a BA in 98), and yeah, that whole "find em, fuck em, forget about em" thing was definitely a thing. I remember one time being really insulted when a guy I'd had a one night stand with told me he wasn't looking for anything serious. I was insulted because it was not even on my radar with this guy at all, and for him to think he had to blow me off was like, what?
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Post by InkAndComb on Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:45 pm

I'm 25 so maybe it's just me, but this is how I tend to function if I go out to bars with the intention of seeking companionship.

Most of my lady friends will play a BIT coy, but push comes to shove, they will make moves without being creepy about it (But still pretty forward!).

I think it depends on the area you're in as well; the last town I lived in had a MUCH larger youth culture, 18 to 24 was the majority of people out and about (including with fakes at bars). I saw both genders hooking up pretty frequently with equal levels of aggression.

I can't speak for more 'conventionally attractive' types or anything; I tend to go clubbing occasionally but mostly hang around hipster/indie/has music but good beer type bars with college students, and it's still pretty evenly split on who's aggressing. Then again, "alpha" types or really aggressive "bro" types don't seem to get much action around here. Dudes who look like Ben Wyatt from parks and rec have the highest success rate, followed by guys with messy buns xD Must be the times.
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Post by kleenestar on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:59 pm

The Wisp wrote:
Still, it seems contingent on having the right kind of social circle, and winding up in such a group with the traits all required seems very luck-based (sex-positive, good gender ratios, casual sex is acceptable within the group, everybody's a cool and ethical person (pre-vetted), lots of people in a similar age range, etc. all the while having some non-sexual common interest(s) drawing you together).

Luck-based? Yes and no. One can create such a group, but I don't think that's a good strategy for you. If you are looking for such a group to join, you need to meet someone who can connect you with an existing group. There's luck involved, but it's not just luck. What you are looking for is someone who has casual contacts with many different social communities, so they can help you identify the right community for you. People like this are actually relatively easy to find, because everyone knows them or at least of them. You just have to figure out the right way to ask about it in your community, which I can't quite help you with. I'm often pretty blunt about it, asking things like "So, who knows everybody around here?" or "Who's the person to know if you want to meet a lot of different people?" or "Who's really good at making introductions?" You probably won't find this person on your first try but you can follow a trail of breadcrumbs toward them, so to speak - and that person is highly likely to be able to introduce you to the right kind of social circle IF they think you are awesome.
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Post by The Wisp on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:13 pm

kleenestar wrote:
Luck-based? Yes and no. One can create such a group, but I don't think that's a good strategy for you. If you are looking for such a group to join, you need to meet someone who can connect you with an existing group. There's luck involved, but it's not just luck. What you are looking for is someone who has casual contacts with many different social communities, so they can help you identify the right community for you. People like this are actually relatively easy to find, because everyone knows them or at least of them. You just have to figure out the right way to ask about it in your community, which I can't quite help you with. I'm often pretty blunt about it, asking things like "So, who knows everybody around here?" or "Who's the person to know if you want to meet a lot of different people?" or "Who's really good at making introductions?" You probably won't find this person on your first try but you can follow a trail of breadcrumbs toward them, so to speak - and that person is highly likely to be able to introduce you to the right kind of social circle IF they think you are awesome.

That's an interesting tactic, seems effective! I'll have to keep it in mind and try it in the future.
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Post by Guest on Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:02 pm

reboundstudent wrote: Oftentimes what I've seen in geek circles are guys who identify themselves as being absolutely supportive of "sex positivist" and women seeking casual sex; however, it turns out their support only extends so far as it benefits them personally. If a woman is seeking casual sex, but is seeking it with men the guy does not consider worthy (or is jealous of), suddenly all that positive attitude flies out the window.  

I know I am late, but this caught my eye.

I kinda felt this way fairly recently, but instead of judging the woman like in most cases, I tend to direct the anger at myself, eventually fermenting into self-hatred which became worse during V-Day... after that felt I was officially undateable... (Unfortunately, I spent the day with my old buddy Jack, if you know what I mean...)

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Post by PintsizeBro on Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:12 pm

kleenestar wrote:Another thing I've noticed is that reputation helps a lot. Most of these women assume that some random dude will probably not be very good in bed (and from their experiences, it sounds like they are right - not because guys can't be but because a lot of dudes think their pleasure is mandatory and hers is optional). That means they are actively selecting for guys they think will be fun for casual sex. One way they do this is to listen to what other women say about the guys they've slept with; a guy who is a great casual lay is going to get more women knocking at his door.

eselle28 wrote:As for women who aggressively pursue men, are you picturing a scenario where the woman does almost all the escalation? If so, it does happen, but I mostly tend to see it in cases where the attention is unwanted and the man is hoping to escape it at some point.

This has been my experience of being aggressively pursued by an interested woman. I got a reputation for being reasonably good in bed, and a woman who was interested in me started out low-key, but got much more aggressive when I declined. It wasn't fun.

Our mutual friends were genuinely surprised that I was unhappy with the situation. After all, a woman wanted to have sex with me, why wouldn't I say yes?

I don't entirely blame the social circle. She only got really inappropriate when nobody else was watching, because she knew what she was doing wasn't okay.

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Post by eselle28 on Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:15 pm

Ugh, sorry that happened to you, PintsizeBro. Creeps are the worst, and society is not all that good about recognizing and calling out creepy behavior in women.
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Post by PintsizeBro on Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:49 pm

It was really weird for me. I didn't feel threatened per se, but I also didn't feel like there was anything I could do to stop her. If I slapped her for grabbing my dick, everyone would see me as the bad guy because I hit a woman. I found a handful of people who understood that no, her constant "offers" to give me head were not in fact doing me a favor, and they acted as a buffer to keep her away from me. Then I moved away, but while that took care of me, it doesn't do anything for her next target.

I guess this is something women have to deal with pretty often, especially in geek/nerd circles. Because this woman's defenders all said the same things I've heard said about creepy guys: "She's just socially awkward! She really likes you a lot! Why don't you just give her a chance?"

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Post by Enail on Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:52 pm

Ugh, that's awful, PintsizeBro. Sorry that happened to you.
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Post by PintsizeBro on Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:55 pm

Thanks for the support guys. I try to see it as a learning experience now. I always tried to listen to women who talked about their experiences being harassed, but having experienced harassment myself seems to label me as "safe" to other victims/survivors in a way that just saying the right things couldn't do.

...I realize this is veering into thread-derailing territory now. Sorry about that. But thanks for listening.

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