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Post by nopenoperson on Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:54 pm

Okay, new here, read the mainboard (yay it's usually superhelpful but sometimes I hate read too... I admit) but don't really post there because it's a bit too visible and since I interact with students at work I don't want anyone to see me... I'm having a bit of a problem with meeting people (of course...) but not in the way you think. I meet a lot of women, they seem interested, many of them even express interest. The catch however is that I'm much older than they are. http://captainawkward.com/2014/09/18/625-dodgy-older-dudes-being-dodgy/  I read this topic and it really bothered me, especially some of the comments. The thing about me is, I don't purposefully misrepresent my age, I just don't look 30. I look 21 or 22 at most, and that is if I haven't shaved in a few days. I dress like a young professional or grad student, and I really don't want to grow facial hair.. I do everything I can to posture as "older".. but it just doesn't seem to help.. or maybe it's even part of the cause and I'm accidently attracting women who want older guys...

So I find myself in an ethical conundrum. I live in a very large college town, we have 3 of them here, so I get a lot of interest from women who perceive me to be in their age range. I'm also an undergrad for full disclosure, having only started when I was lucky enough to get a job with the university after losing my previous job. I have 1 year left, and after 4 years I've not had a single date because I'm so afraid of being the creepy old guy... and I like my job and will probably not quit when I graduate... and if it's Through fear of being met with either revulsion when I explain to them how old I am... or I just can't bring myself to go beyond being pleasant because i don't want to be that guy in that post, I just can't seem to bring myself to ask people out anymore.. the problem has just gotten worse as I have gotten older and they have stayed the same age...  Ideally I would like to not date anyone younger than 24, but most people don't stay here past undergrad so the numbers of grad students are pretty small (the other colleges are a 2 year tech school, and a branch of a larger 4 year school that requires people to transfer to the flagship) and are usually too busy doing grad student stuff to hang around town.

Online dating is an almost complete non-starter, as it's seemingly impossible to find anyone with a college education (as I said, we have major brain drain once people graduate) and who doesn't already have kids (which is one of only 3 complete dealbreakers I have, the others being not outweighing me by more than 30lbs, and not being conservative) and it's like that across every site, except Tindr. Tindr gives me lots of good options, but I keep deleting my account or swiping left on everyone because they are all so much younger than I am... and as far as I know there is no way for people to filter by age.. so I might accidentally come across as being a creepy gold guy hitting on some 22 or 23 year old... ugh.

In this case I know I'm complaining about a problem that many here would likely love to have, oh my god you get interest from hot undergrads... but for me it's panic enducing becuase I don't want to be in a position where people could assume I was taking advantage of them or worse was the guy from dazed and confused (and my town has plenty of them) please help. Especially the women, what are your takes on this? Most of my women friends don't see the problem but I have gotten a few comments about how it just confirms guys see women over 23 as worthless (this isn't true! I'd much rather have someone closer to my own age) and that makes me feel even worse.

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Post by eselle28 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:12 pm

So, I'd say there are a few different things going on here. I will say at the start of this that I'm 34, and that I tend to find men my age who strongly prefer to date much younger women or have complicated theories about why younger women are better matches for them to be worrisome and tend to stay clear of them both romantically (if they can't do any better and try to settle for someone the same age) and socially. That doesn't mean I judge every man who happens to be dating a younger woman, though. Relationships aren't all cut from the same cloth and not every couple with a large age gap is due to people buying into social stereotypes and seeking out that gap.

That being said, I think it's worth noting that the Captain Awkward letter wasn't about 31-year-old men who date 22-year-old women and are upfront about the age difference. It was about a LW who had a bad online date with a man who lied about his age, her friend who had a possibly troublesome but possibly fine friendship with a 43-year-old married guy, and how both of them were giving each other bad advice and getting too invested in each other's differing choices.

As for your situation, being an undergrad yourself probably makes your fellow undergraduates among your more realistic dating options. If some show interest I'd suggest that you ask them out. Mention your age fairly promptly on any date that's agreed to - it's likely to come up in any conversation about your lives that you have 8 or 9 more years to talk about than they do anyway. Some of these women will probably reject you, and in some cases it may be due to your age. Take it gracefully as you would any other rejection. I don't think it would hurt for you to continue to keep an eye on community-oriented groups in case there are women closer to your age who are also university employees or simply townies who might be compatible with you, either, even if they haven't historically been that fruitful. If you haven't been dating much recently, keeping both options open seems like it might be a good strategy.

As for Tinder, you actually can click on the little wheel in the upper left hand corner of the app. It lets you restrict for both age and distance - and I'd say that if you're concerned about approaching 22-year-olds, you might at least want to screen out the 18-year-olds who use the app so you can see more profiles of women you'd at least consider.
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Post by nopenoperson on Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:20 pm

Community oriented groups is something that I already at least attempt to do, I'll admit though I'm not very good at keeping up with it because I work 30 hours a week, and take a full course load (part of it being paid for as a benefit of working for the school) and I don't want my grades to slip by overloading my plate. I've gone out with a few people who also work for the school, but even though they are also often younger than me, usually in the 24-28 range, they tend to be more.. adult? if that makes sense. They have bought houses in the area, or have already completed advanced or terminal degrees. Or in the case of the townies, own their own business or commute to DC and use this town as their base. This just further fuels my anxiety issues because i feel like I have nothing to offer them. I'm 30 years old, not in great shape (I'd be in fine shape if this were the 1970's...) and don't make a huge amount of money as I basically took the job in order to get the tuition assistance since I'd never been able to afford to go to school before.

That's really solid info about the age ranges on tindr though, I'll adjust it and see if it helps because I automatically swipe left on anyone under 21 as I'm not about that life. Thank you.

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Post by nopenoperson on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:11 pm

Since I'm not allowed to talk about anything other than ethics in that other thread which is *ONLY* about ethics and is definitely not about the ethics of meeting women so I mustn't talk about the meeting women part at all.. only the ethics.. here I am to talk about my various other issues in the thread that no one is reading.

So here goes.

Already laid most of them out, all the advice I've been given so far is pretty good in general but not so good when dealing with my specific case.

Things that geography and demography prohibit:
OKCupid
POF

Things that appear decent on the surface but technology prohibits:
Tinder

I have no "group" hobbies, all my hobbies are personal and done at home, alone. I don't and will not be volunteering with anyone or any organizations. If some one wants to pay me to do something fine, but then it would be a job and I already have one of those. I'm not working for free. There are no causes I feel strongly about apart from myself. I don't really care about animals, abused children, teaching the homeless how to yodel, cleaning up the rivers, saving the whales, saving the snails, or any of that. I don't play sports, I don't intend to take up any sports, and going to places that have things I like basically means entering into single sex male only spaces.

I have a group of people I spend time with, but generally we hang out at each others houses and don't get too rambunctious, no one seems to ever know anyone new to bring along and I really haven't got the mental capacity to try and ingratiate (read: Lie) my way into another friend group.

I basically detest anything that people tell me are good places to meet women, dancing, dog parks, whatever. I listen to loud, angry, vaguely satanic sounding music and there is absolutely zilch in the way of a metal scene in my town. I don't drive so I can't go to any other towns, and even if I wanted to they are all too far away so concerts are out. 80% of the bars in town are either country/western themed or hipster bars. The hipster bars are great, except then all they ever want to talk about are bands from Finland that I've never heard of and who is winning the oppression Olympics this week. Again, I could just stay home and read tumblr.

I quit going to bars because I didn't like the attention of women who were way younger than me, and who were probably too drunk to consent, or were simply looking to score yet another free drink off some poor sap. Before finally going home with the guy who doesn't care about consent because he's got a really tight polo shirt on.

So I think I've pretty much ruled out all the suggestions I've been given so far.. and it does seem like it basically leaves cold approaching which I still won't do because I don't want to annoy anyone. I mean, I don't like it when homeless people come up and ask me for cigarettes or change.. so I assume most people don't like it when other people come up to them and start asking for their time.




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Post by reboot on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:37 pm

You might have a few other options. I know you ruled out people that are around your age and at a more settled stage because you feel you have nothing to offer them, but perhaps you can let them be the judge of what they want from a relationship.

Another issue you brought up was fear of being the old guy hitting on young women. Personally, I think if you are upfront with your age and a younger woman is still interested (and you are interested in her) there is nothing problematic about a 30 yo dating a 21+ person

I am wondering what settings you are running into women that you would like to cold approach. If you could mention where you are thinking of cold approaching we might be able to give advice on how best to handle it.
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Post by Werel on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:48 pm

nopenoperson, I'm going to say the first thing that comes to mind after reading this, with the disclaimer that my intent is not solely to be a jerk: do you actually like anyone?

Cause the main thing that's coming through here is contempt. Contempt for the people around you, for the things they like, for the ways they go about liking them, for the very forum you're expressing that contempt in.

First, let me say that there's no inherent problem with not liking stuff. You seem to know what you like and don't like. Right on. No point wasting your time on stuff you're 100% certain bores or annoys you, or with people you're 100% certain you wouldn't get along with. Don't like dog parks, or Finnish bands, or whales, or sports, or the direction a thread is going, or women who fuck dudes in polo shirts? Okay. You're not required to.

But when the problem is "how do I meet anyone I like?" followed up with "here are the kinds of people and things I don't like, and it's all of them," you're setting up a guaranteed-failure situation. The subtext I'm getting is not "I don't like this stuff, so participating in it isn't a preferable way to meet people," it's "I don't like people for participating in this stuff." And people can smell contempt. It's one of the hardest stances to hide, unless you're varsity-level slick.

So. Have you ever had an experience where you engaged in a conversation with somebody who belongs to a group you're contemptuous of, but were able to find common ground with and establish a rapport? Ever spent enough time in a hipster bar to be totally certain you hate the bands and the generally preferred topics of conversation, but did actually have an interesting conversation with somebody about Bloodborne while you were there? Or met somebody who was super into saving the snails, yuck, but who was also pretty fun to talk to about 19th-century Russian literature? If I were going to take a stab in the dark at one thing you could work on (or one broad set of related skills) for meeting-people success, it'd be humanization-- specifically forgiving people for liking shit you think is stupid, and acknowledging that their interest in Finnish bands or homeless-yodeling lessons* is only one facet of an otherwise complex human being, and that some of those other facets might actually be to your liking.

So. Who do you actually like? What does the ideal woman you're trying to meet do with her time, if not volunteering or dog-parking or playing soccer or listening to stupid-ass bands? How many of her interests could be beneath your regard before she was a total non-candidate for your attention? And how flexible could you be on her hobbies (and how much could you rein in your contempt), if she were extremely passionate about cleaning up rivers?

*this is the most contemptuous-of-helping-others thing I've heard all month, good job dude Laughing
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Post by reboundstudent on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:45 pm

Werel wrote:Don't like dog parks..... Okay. You're not required to.

Totally disagree.
age range and confusion.  GIF-Dog-does-somersault-while-playing

Otherwise repeat pretty much Werel said. Cause reading your post, my first thought was "Even if you COULD cold-approach and there was absolutely no feminist stigma against older men hitting on younger women... how in the world are you going to hit on her?" Like what do you have to offer Random Hit-On Woman? You don't want to get involved in stuff, you don't feel passionate about most things, you seem to have very little desire for socializing, you have no interest in broadening your horizons... are you looking for your female clone? Is this woman meant to just be a sex-and-emotional-support dispenser? Is there a Manic-Pixie-Girl desire buried in here?

Sentences like "There are no causes I feel strongly about apart from myself" throw up HUGE red flags for me that you really don't care about anyone but yourself, and even on the person who rolled 20 on all of their dating stats, combined with solitary interests, small social groups, no interest in broadening horizons or learning new things, that'd be a hard sell.
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Post by Werel on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:00 am

reboundstudent wrote:
Totally disagree.
age range and confusion.  GIF-Dog-does-somersault-while-playing

Loopy OHMYGODOHMYGOD DOES THAT DOG HAVE A POKÉBALL?! IS THAT DOG HUGGING A MOTHERFUCKING POKÉBALL??!! Lovestruck

Er... carry on.
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Post by nopenoperson on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:14 am

reboot wrote:You might have a few other options. I know you ruled out people that are around your age and at a more settled stage because you feel you have nothing to offer them, but perhaps you can let them be the judge of what they want from a relationship.

Another issue you brought up was fear of being the old guy hitting on young women. Personally, I think if you are upfront with your age and a younger woman is still interested (and you are interested in her) there is nothing problematic about a 30 yo dating a 21+ person

I am wondering what settings you are running into women that you would like to cold approach. If you could mention where you are thinking of cold approaching we might be able to give advice on how best to handle it.

So the thing is, I by and large don't want what *they* are offering either. I don't want to be tied to anyone in this town, or this state, or this region of the country. I don't want to be with someone who is going to expect me to immediately start looking for a better job (I'm actually perfectly content working for low wage so long as it gets me access to the university library and free classes) and I don't want to have to deal with the kids question yet. Part of me wants them, part of me doesn't, and part of me just isn't ready for that yet. But I most definitely do not want someone else's.

Werel wrote:nopenoperson, I'm going to say the first thing that comes to mind after reading this, with the disclaimer that my intent is not solely to be a jerk: do you actually like anyone?

Cause the main thing that's coming through here is contempt. Contempt for the people around you, for the things they like, for the ways they go about liking them, for the very forum you're expressing that contempt in.

First, let me say that there's no inherent problem with not liking stuff. You seem to know what you like and don't like. Right on. No point wasting your time on stuff you're 100% certain bores or annoys you, or with people you're 100% certain you wouldn't get along with. Don't like dog parks, or Finnish bands, or whales, or sports, or the direction a thread is going, or women who fuck dudes in polo shirts? Okay. You're not required to.

But when the problem is "how do I meet anyone I like?" followed up with "here are the kinds of people and things I don't like, and it's all of them," you're setting up a guaranteed-failure situation. The subtext I'm getting is not "I don't like this stuff, so participating in it isn't a preferable way to meet people," it's "I don't like people for participating in this stuff." And people can smell contempt. It's one of the hardest stances to hide, unless you're varsity-level slick.

So. Have you ever had an experience where you engaged in a conversation with somebody who belongs to a group you're contemptuous of, but were able to find common ground with and establish a rapport? Ever spent enough time in a hipster bar to be totally certain you hate the bands and the generally preferred topics of conversation, but did actually have an interesting conversation with somebody about Bloodborne while you were there? Or met somebody who was super into saving the snails, yuck, but who was also pretty fun to talk to about 19th-century Russian literature? If I were going to take a stab in the dark at one thing you could work on (or one broad set of related skills) for meeting-people success, it'd be humanization-- specifically forgiving people for liking shit you think is stupid, and acknowledging that their interest in Finnish bands or homeless-yodeling lessons* is only one facet of an otherwise complex human being, and that some of those other facets might actually be to your liking.

So. Who do you actually like? What does the ideal woman you're trying to meet do with her time, if not volunteering or dog-parking or playing soccer or listening to stupid-ass bands? How many of her interests could be beneath your regard before she was a total non-candidate for your attention? And how flexible could you be on her hobbies (and how much could you rein in your contempt), if she were extremely passionate about cleaning up rivers?

*this is the most contemptuous-of-helping-others thing I've heard all month, good job dude Laughing

Half the things I said here are actually borrowings from various movies.. you can blame hudson hawk for the homeless yodeling. The thing isn't exactly that I'm contemptuous, though I'll cop to it in certain instances. My town has a HUGE greek scene, of which I basically hate on unrelenting as I would love to see them all rounded up and put in concentration camps. The Hipsters I've done my best to get along with them, but I'm just too mainstream or conservative for most of them and I never really feel like I can talk to them without sending them to the verge of tears or something. I don't really know what my ideal partner would do with her free time, I don't have a problem persay with "sports" in a large scale thing, I simply have no interest in participating in them. I'm super intense and super academic and basically spend all my time reading... and I find women reading to be extremely alluring but it's also part of the reason I don't talk to them because I know how much I hate being interrupted when I'm reading. The thing about all of the stuff I listed is, it all requires *work*, specifically work that I'm not getting paid to do. It's the same reason I never offer to buy women drinks in bars. I know they aren't obligated to even repay me with their time, so therefore I don't participate in a transactional economy. I'm not going to just buy her something because I think she has a pretty face, and I'm not going to waste my Saturday helping HFH build a house either. The thing is, I guess ultimately, I know what I like, it's just all solitary, offbeat, rare, and esoteric. I'd make a good hipster if I was more personable. I'm prickly, quick to anger, do not suffer stupidity at all, and see no reason to go out of my way to help others when it won't be appreciated and I could spend my limited amount of time on something I actually enjoy. I guess the big thing is I just am so apathetic towards everything that isn't *my* special topics that I just don't care about them at all.. I don't know how I'm supposed to juggle all these things. I can't volunteer, and have a social life, and work, and go to school, and sleep, and cook healthy meals, and work out, there simply isn't enough time in the day.

reboundstudent wrote:
Werel wrote:Don't like dog parks..... Okay. You're not required to.

Totally disagree.
age range and confusion.  GIF-Dog-does-somersault-while-playing

Otherwise repeat pretty much Werel said. Cause reading your post, my first thought was "Even if you COULD cold-approach and there was absolutely no feminist stigma against older men hitting on younger women... how in the world are you going to hit on her?" Like what do you have to offer Random Hit-On Woman? You don't want to get involved in stuff, you don't feel passionate about most things, you seem to have very little desire for socializing, you have no interest in broadening your horizons... are you looking for your female clone? Is this woman meant to just be a sex-and-emotional-support dispenser? Is there a Manic-Pixie-Girl desire buried in here?

Sentences like "There are no causes I feel strongly about apart from myself" throw up HUGE red flags for me that you really don't care about anyone but yourself, and even on the person who rolled 20 on all of their dating stats, combined with solitary interests, small social groups, no interest in broadening horizons or learning new things, that'd be a hard sell.    

A female clone would be ideal, I don't want a MPDG cause they inevitably leave you worse than you were before they showed up. As for what I can offer, absolutely nothing. That's what happens when you are socially valueless and have no personality beyond increasingly morbid self depricating humor (well, at least I'm an organ donor so one day I can be part of someone else's Life...) as for caring only about myself, if I don't care about me, who else will?

Also it's great that you like dogs, i actually do like dogs, but I'm hesitant to get involved with people who have dogs because one of my few passions in the world (when I can indulge it) is travel.. and boarding dogs is traumatic for them and this goes back to that whole "I don't want what more settled people are offering" thing.

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Post by reboot on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:22 am

OK, so where are you running into the women you want to cold approach?
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Post by eselle28 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:33 am

<mod>
My town has a HUGE greek scene, of which I basically hate on unrelenting as I would love to see them all rounded up and put in concentration camps.

No. You do not do this here. If you do it again, you will be suspended. Period.</mod>


Last edited by eselle28 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by nopenoperson on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:35 am

let me repeat, I would see them all rounded up and put in concentration camps. Don't like it, go fuck yourself.

Ban me, I don't care, it's obvious this site isn't going to be any more helpful than DNL's mainpage is.


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Post by nopenoperson on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:36 am

You want to defend racist entitled rich stuck up white kids who sing racist chants on buses, you be my guest.

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Post by reboot on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:37 am

nopenoperson wrote:let me repeat, I would see them all rounded up and put in concentration camps. Don't like it, go fuck yourself.

Ban me, I don't care, it's obvious this site isn't going to be any more helpful than DNL's mainpage is.


OK, you are banned. Sorry, we do not truck with those who advocate exterminating others.
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Post by eselle28 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:37 am

nopenoperson wrote:let me repeat, I would see them all rounded up and put in concentration camps. Don't like it, go fuck yourself.

Ban me, I don't care, it's obvious this site isn't going to be any more helpful than DNL's mainpage is.


It doesn't seem like you'll fit in here, so I'm going to ask you to leave.
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Post by Xexyz on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:39 am

age range and confusion.  Escalated

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Post by PintsizeBro on Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:16 pm

Frat guys are an easy target for bitter self-identified nerds to hate, but at least at my university the frat guys were much nicer and actually LESS racist than the tabletop gaming club...

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Post by reboot on Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:55 pm

Yeah it was zero to mass murder in two pages. Good times.

However, I am going to lock this thread since the OP is banned and cannot participate. But thank you for the gif and the awesome closing comment, Xexyz and PintSizeBro!
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