Having a hard time meeting women who are attracted to me [adv]

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:09 pm

nearly_takuan wrote:

You answer what is said instead of what is meant and yet are surprised when people get frustrated?

Aw come on, be nice, they're just trying to help, brudda.

Besides, it's Easter! :3

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Post by jcorozza on Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:13 pm

The Mikey wrote:
Seems that nobody interested even in sex. I saw one who maybe was but never responded. Hell, I have exactly what I was looking for on the side above my personal details in the "looking for" category.

It's possible that women/people in your area who are looking for casual sex don't use OKC for it. But my main point is that if you do want to attract women who want a relationship, your answers about sex might be turning those women off. And if they are the majority of the women in your area on OKC are looking for relationships, that's going to rule out a lot of them.

They Mikey wrote:

All right fine, she can go hangout with her ex. I've read plenty of stories and accounts from folks I know. That's how a friend of mine lost his last girlfriend, through her cheating on him with an ex. All right, that's cool, just know, it'd be over, naturally at that point.

Holy what? No one said this. This is your Jerkbrain talking, and assuming the worst-case scenario. I'm sure it happens occasionally, but I've talked with and hung out with exes all the time, and, when I was dating someone else, none of them ever made a pass at me. So unless your GF has given you a heads up about her ex being a douchenozzle, you may have to trust her. And if something DOES happen, it would've happened with someone else whether the ex showed up or not.

The Mikey wrote: The last time I answered a silly question with honesty I got yelled at for not caring about Olde English. So, I think I'll avoid silly questions, next time. Grin

Again, no one yelled at you. We just talked about how women might be reading your response to you. If you notice you're answer a lot of questions in the negative "no/I don't know/I wouldn't be interested" it might be good to just delete some of them, or consider how important it is that the other person answers it negatively, too (for example, I'm not going to spend most evenings playing video games, but I've dated guys who have, so this doesn't bother me.)



The Mikey wrote:

I don't know. I'm about ready to give up on women.

If you want to give up on dating, either for now, for a while, or forever, those are all valid choices. Just be careful not to phrase as it if it's a problem with women. You not having dating success is not something women are actively doing TO you. And most women have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

The Mikey wrote:

I fucked up pretty bad, because I think there's a difference between a silly joke and me not taking a hint. Neutral

-sigh-


Here's the thing, though. Now that you know that, you can learn from it! You know what not to do next time. It's a learning process. If you mess up, apologize, and move on.

The Mikey wrote:
I... don't know. It could be, but I still chalk it up to them just not liking me period. The most self-deprecating joke I made while all the interns were in the room was when everyone was discussing exes and I simply said, "Ha! Jokes on you guys, I've never had an ex."

Even if it's not strictly self-deprecating, but as others have mentioned, you do get a bit defense, as well as very negative, when challenged, so that may be coming out, too.


The Mikey wrote:

Oh, all right, so Ive been flirting wrong too? That's cool. I mean that's kinda what I did with anxiety girl, I just added an extra touch element because I knew she had previous experience. I didn't.

What I meant is that there is no one standard way to flirt. If you're going into to flirt mode with the intention/hopes of a date, though, flirting with multiple women in front of each other is unlikely to end well. They're either going to read it as friendly rather than flirty, or that your a bit of a player.





The Mikey wrote:
Wondering wrote:
And this. Your profile is an attempt to put your best self forward. In a text-only setting. If your best self can't spell in the standard way when it's possible to go back and fix mistakes, that sends certain signals.

Yeah, I know that, I tried my best. I did what I could, but I'm just not good enough.

But we know that's not your best. We know that you know how to spell and not use slang. I think you're trying to use slang as a way to give your writing personality, I just don't know if it's working the way you want it to.

"quote="The Mikey"]
Then what's it about? Because I'm a pretty decent typist and I've been pretty good at English, what I'm wondering is does all that REALLY make a difference? [/quote]

Short answer: yes. Some women will be bothered by the slang (or the gonnas). But I doubt that there are many who will be bothered by you choosing to NOT use slang.

The Mikey wrote:

So, then do you guys think I'm dumb? I mean, I am a little bit, but not conpletely. I did get 110 on an IQ test once.

Again, no one said that. What we are saying is that your use of slang obscures your intelligence in your profile.

The Mikey wrote: I've applied a lot of the advice here and I still got silence. I just don't think dating, in general, really is for me. I'll probably keep trying and I'll probably keep failing and then eventually I'll die unmarried and childless like Sterling Holloway. Grin

Honestly, this negativity worries me a lot. And not just for your dating life, but for your everyday life. And the smiley face after it?
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:59 pm

jcorozza wrote:It's possible that women/people in your area who are looking for casual sex don't use OKC for it.  But my main point is that if you do want to attract women who want a relationship, your answers about sex might be turning those women off.  And if they are the majority of the women in your area on OKC are looking for relationships, that's going to rule out a lot of them.

Well, I don't remember most of my sex answers, the most notable answer to a sex question was "Never Had Sex/I'm Still A Virgin". But sure, that's fair.

jcorozza wrote:
Holy what?  No one said this.  This is your Jerkbrain talking, and assuming the worst-case scenario.  I'm sure it happens occasionally, but I've talked with and hung out with exes all the time, and, when I was dating someone else, none of them ever made a pass at me.  So unless your GF has given you a heads up about her ex being a douchenozzle, you may have to trust her.  And if something DOES happen, it would've happened with someone else whether the ex showed up or not.

All right then. Just jerkbrain being a jerk (I hope).

And For those just tuning in, I don't have a GF. Razz

jcorozza wrote:
Again, no one yelled at you.  We just talked about how women might be reading your response to you.  If you notice you're answer a lot of questions in the negative "no/I don't know/I wouldn't be interested" it might be good to just delete some of them, or consider how important it is that the other person answers it negatively, too (for example, I'm not going to spend most evenings playing video games, but I've dated guys who have, so this doesn't bother me.)

No, but it did feel like I was getting scolded for some answers. My answers would vary a lot and I would respond positively to questions I would understand. If I didn't get a question, I'll answer but then answer would probably have a large asterisk next to it saying: "I don't get this question?" I would explain my answer but most people I don't think read those (but I do!).

jcorozza wrote:
If you want to give up on dating, either for now, for a while, or forever, those are all valid choices.  Just be careful not to phrase as it if it's a problem with women.  You not having dating success is not something women are actively doing TO you.  And most women have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Sorry, poorly worded declaration. And that's right, it's not their fault, it's mine and I accept that. It's totally cool.

jcorozza wrote:
Here's the thing, though.  Now that you know that, you can learn from it! You know what not to do next time.  It's a learning process.  If you mess up, apologize, and move on.

I do apologize, but it seems that that's not good enough for some people sometimes.

jcorozza wrote:
Even if it's not strictly self-deprecating, but as others have mentioned, you do get a bit defense, as well as very negative, when challenged, so that may be coming out, too.

When it feels like I'm getting a beating of course I'll get a little defensive. Razz When challenged and proven wrong I will admit defeat or accept the blame or claim responsibility for any other fuck up. So yeah, that does tend to spur my mood and does make me negative.

But, when I don't get negative or defensive while challenged and I don't have an answer usually I reply with "Well, I don't know why or then" followed by a shrug.

jcorozza wrote:
What I meant is that there is no one standard way to flirt.  If you're going into to flirt mode with the intention/hopes of a date, though, flirting with multiple women in front of each other is unlikely to end well.  They're either going to read it as friendly rather than flirty, or that your a bit of a player.

No standard way to flirt, eh? All righty, I still dunno how to do that. :/ But i probably come off as the former. Because player, I defiinitely am not. D:


jcorozza wrote:

But we know that's not your best.  We know that you know how to spell and not use slang.  I think you're trying to use slang as a way to give your writing personality, I just don't know if it's working the way you want it to.

I don't think it worked at all. Or works at all for me.

jcorozza wrote:
Short answer: yes.  Some women will be bothered by the slang (or the gonnas).  But I doubt that there are many who will be bothered by you choosing to NOT use slang.  

Right. Well, this is new to me. Neutral

jcorozza wrote:
Again, no one said that.  What we are saying is that your use of slang obscures your intelligence in your profile.

I thought it gave me something of personality in my profile.

jcorozza wrote:
Honestly, this negativity worries me a lot.  And not just for your dating life, but for your everyday life.  And the smiley face after it?

I guess dark humor doesn't read too well. D: Well, see, Steeling Holloway was the fellow who did the voice for Winnie the Pooh and Kaa the Snake in Jungle Book. He never married and adopted a fellow back in the day.

I Usually just kinda keep the negativity to myself, I don't wanna bring anyone down so I keep it in the metaphorical basement. Every now and again the negativity will leak out, but I'm pretty good and patching it up. Smile

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Post by readertorider on Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:43 pm

nearly_takuan wrote:
readertorider wrote:
The Mikey wrote:

Guuuh, I'd hate to be 73 and still single. D: Also, singularity...?

Even if you're dating someone, you're still with yourself? (Ray Kurzweil has this book where he very seriously makes the case that based on exponential growth around 2050 humans will have merged with robots and be effectively immortal...)

You answer what is said instead of what is meant and yet are surprised when people get frustrated?

Pretty sure this is aimed at me?

Possibly off topic stuff:

So first--there's an exchange before the one you quoted where Mikey mentioned being with oneself for too long and I tried to cheer him up by mentioning that we were still young and had quite a bit of life ahead of ourselves (which we would coincidentally spend with ourselves regardless of any other companions we may have in life). Possibly this was a bad move considering I didn't make parenthetical explicit. What I said in the bit you quoted, however, was what I meant all along.

Anyway, assuming you knew all that, how should I have responded? I didn't want to get into a "not single for life" type conversation because I don't have much knowledge/reassurance to offer, it was off topic, there wasn't an actual question, and, as someone reasonably content to become a Miss Marple-esque old maid, my opinions on the subject probably wouldn't be helpful.

I can't say that I'm surprised that he's frustrated--there aren't easy answers and having people poke holes in your dating profile or say that your interests don't appeal to large segments of the population has to hurt some. Not sure where you're getting the impression I am surprised--I said things knowing they could hurt which isn't something I normally do, true, and I did apologize to Mikey before when he seemed frustrated by one of my posts which I guess could seem disingenuous if I'm not surprised?

Anyway if I'm doing something that's hurting people and you know how I can fix it, please PM me.

The Mikey wrote:I actually don't even like pool, I'm terrible at it, but I've known women who are totally into pool. And yeah, I do like going Lebowski about bowling, plus I'm fortunate enough to have a bowling alley nearby my house. I'm also terrible at bowling but it can be fun!

Bowling can be very fun. Especially while drinking beer "aiming juice". If you don't like pool don't bring it up as a date idea. Women who do like it probably will mention it to you, though and then you can do it with them as a date-thing later on.

The Mikey wrote:The reason I'm apologizing is because I'm coming off as offensive. That's the last thing I want to come across as unless there's strangers being assholes to me. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm confident in a lot of aspects of life, women is not one of them. If I say something and somebody is genuinely offended, then yes, I will apologize.

You're not coming off as offensive, just as doing effectively the equivalent of me setting up a dating profile based completely on my love of knitting, tea, and BBC versions of Jane Austen novels (with a few bonus cat pictures) and expecting to be deluged with messages. Wink Not saying all of the media you enjoy is as friendly to female fans as knitting circles typically are to male knitters, but I don't think that's necessarily the major issue here.

The Mikey wrote:I've done that, I've met people through class, friends and some hobbies, but none were into me.

So, I've not even been able to show them the media I'm into. I've seen plenty of media with women in and some is very good and some of it ain't so good. "Crazy Stupid Love", good; "Princess Diaries 2", bad (although the first Princess Diaries was pretty good).

Yeah, I don't think any of this is "on you" so to speak, but I've only been attracted to a handful of people in my life--it probably takes time to shift through enough meetings where two people see eachother and both think "yes!".

OLD can help because you can meet more people who are looking, but if you want to take a break from that that's fine too. (Have you tried Tinder? It's worked well for friends who are interested in casual things, but don't know about the prevalence in your area).

The Mikey wrote:
jcorozza wrote:

Again, no one said that.  What we are saying is that your use of slang obscures your intelligence in your profile.

I thought it gave me something of personality in my profile
Sorry to have given you conflicting advice.  I think people are correct that proper English won't alienate people in the way that slang might (provided you keep away from the thee's and thou's and whom's  Wink ) Again, it doesn't personally bother me, but it is an easy thing to change to broaden your appeal if you decide to make another profile.

(Disclaimer from the last bit still stands)
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:26 pm

readertorider wrote:
Pretty sure this is aimed at me?

Possibly off topic stuff:

So first--there's an exchange before the one you quoted where Mikey mentioned being with oneself for too long and I tried to cheer him up by mentioning that we were still young and had quite a bit of life ahead of ourselves (which we would coincidentally spend with ourselves regardless of any other companions we may have in life). Possibly this was a bad move considering I didn't make parenthetical explicit. What I said in the bit you quoted, however, was what I meant all along.

Anyway, assuming you knew all that, how should I have responded? I didn't want to get into a "not single for life" type conversation because I don't have much knowledge/reassurance to offer, it was off topic, there wasn't an actual question, and, as someone reasonably content to become a Miss Marple-esque old maid, my opinions on the subject probably wouldn't be helpful.

I can't say that I'm surprised that he's frustrated--there aren't easy answers and having people poke holes in your dating profile or say that your interests don't appeal to large segments of the population has to hurt some. Not sure where you're getting the impression I am surprised--I said things knowing they could hurt which isn't something I normally do, true, and I did apologize to Mikey before when he seemed frustrated by one of my posts which I guess could seem disingenuous if I'm not surprised?

Anyway if I'm doing something that's hurting people and you know how I can fix it, please PM me.

Nailed it right on the head there. :3 -hugs-

readertorider wrote:
Bowling can be very fun. Especially while drinking beer "aiming juice". If you don't like pool don't bring it up as a date idea. Women who do like it probably will mention it to you, though and then you can do it with them as a date-thing later on.

I don't necessarily hate pool or nothin', I just don't find it as fun as bowling. But you can certainly make both a somewhat sexy activity. ;D

readertorider wrote:
You're not coming off as offensive, just as doing effectively the equivalent of me setting up a dating profile based completely on my love of knitting, tea, and BBC versions of Jane Austen novels (with a few bonus cat pictures) and expecting to be deluged with messages. Wink Not saying all of the media you enjoy is as friendly to female fans as knitting circles typically are to male knitters, but I don't think that's necessarily the major issue here.

If I were into knitting at all, I would probably be knitting cute combat gear and STANAG magazine warmers or something. Razz Or a blankie for my mommy and a Jayne Cobb beanie for me. I certainly would hope not.

readertorider wrote:
Yeah, I don't think any of this is "on you" so to speak, but I've only been attracted to a handful of people in my life--it probably takes time to shift through enough meetings where two people see eachother and both think "yes!".

OLD can help because you can meet more people who are looking, but if you want to take a break from that that's fine too. (Have you tried Tinder? It's worked well for friends who are interested in casual things, but don't know about the prevalence in your area).

That's what I'm guessing too, but I dunno, I'm a weirdo and kinda gauge that pretty early and maybe attach myself too soon? Probably, I dunno how to not do that because sometimes I'll just heartbroken afterwards.

I have tried Tinder, I don't recommend it. I fell into a bot's trap. There are many bots on Tinder at least in San Diego, so I don't trust that place. I only got one match that legit responded and was an actual human being, but that conversation just kinda dwindled down.

The Mikey wrote:
Sorry to have given you conflicting advice.  I think people are correct that proper English won't alienate people in the way that slang might (provided you keep away from the thee's and thou's and whom's  Wink ) Again, it doesn't personally bother me, but it is an easy thing to change to broaden your appeal if you decide to make another profile.

(Disclaimer from the last bit still stands)

It's okay, you didn't give me conflicting advice, though others in the past have indeed done so. It only makes my head hurt and my soul cry. D: I dunno how soon I'll make another profile or if I'll seriously give up on dating at all. That's all up in the air, all I know is, I'm not exactly cut out for it or I can pull a OTG and just wait it out until my 30's. Which is at least another 10 years, dear lard. D:

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Post by jcorozza on Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:34 pm

The Mikey wrote:

Well, I don't remember most of my sex answers, the most notable answer to a sex question was "Never Had Sex/I'm Still A Virgin". But sure, that's fair.

I'm talking about the ones I mentioned earlier in the thread (dating someone just for the sex, etc.)


The Mikey wrote:

No, but it did feel like I was getting scolded for some answers. My answers would vary a lot and I would respond positively to questions I would understand. If I didn't get a question, I'll answer but then answer would probably have a large asterisk next to it saying: "I don't get this question?" I would explain my answer but most people I don't think read those (but I do!).

I didn't see anyone scolding your for them, just explaining how they personally read those questions/answers. If you don't understand a question, you're better off skipping it. There are thousands of questions.

The Mikey wrote:
I do apologize, but it seems that that's not good enough for some people sometimes.

That and moving on are really all you CAN do in an awkward date situation. That might mean ending the date, though.

The Mikey wrote:
When it feels like I'm getting a beating of course I'll get a little defensive. Razz When challenged and proven wrong I will admit defeat or accept the blame or claim responsibility for any other fuck up. So yeah, that does tend to spur my mood and does make me negative.

But, when I don't get negative or defensive while challenged and I don't have an answer usually I reply with "Well, I don't know why or then" followed by a shrug.

I don't think anyone was giving you a beating, and I'm concerned that that's how you took things, especially after asking for advice. That part in bold, though, comes off as dismissive. It's fine to not know something - but "I'm not sure, any thoughts?" would sound less so.


The Mikey wrote:
I thought it gave me something of personality in my profile.

I already addressed this, but I was pretty sure that's why you were doing it, it just sounds like, from what others are saying, that it's not reading that way.

The Mikey wrote:
I guess dark humor doesn't read too well. D: Well, see, Steeling Holloway was the fellow who did the voice for Winnie the Pooh and Kaa the Snake in Jungle Book. He never married and adopted a fellow back in the day.

I Usually just kinda keep the negativity to myself, I don't wanna bring anyone down so I keep it in the metaphorical basement. Every now and again the negativity will leak out, but I'm pretty good and patching it up. Smile

It has nothing to do with it being dark humor - I often like dark/gallows humor, but yours is all self-directed. And if you're holding it all in like that...that's gotta be difficult.
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:57 pm

jcorozza wrote:
I'm talking about the ones I mentioned earlier in the thread (dating someone just for the sex, etc.)

Ohh!! Those ones. Right, well, I'm not terribly worried anymore about it. Profile was nuked sky high. D:

jcorozza wrote:
I didn't see anyone scolding your for them, just explaining how they personally read those questions/answers.  If you don't understand a question, you're better off skipping it.  There are thousands of questions.

You guys weren't? Well, now I definitely feel like an even bigger asshole. Embarassed

jcorozza wrote:
That and moving on are really all you CAN do in an awkward date situation.  That might mean ending the date, though.

I quickly learned many years ago to just let things go, no matter how difficult they are to let go.

jcorozza wrote:
I don't think anyone was giving you a beating, and I'm concerned that that's how you took things, especially after asking for advice.  That part in bold, though, comes off as dismissive.  It's fine to not know something - but "I'm not sure, any thoughts?" would sound less so.

Not usually, no. I'm typically pretty receptive of advice and feedback, but getting a shotgun blast to my profile does hurt a little.

What I was referring to is in real-life when people pull that one me. Sometimes in real life when people just blow up on me I can't help but think, "Dude, relax, its just an opinion/belief I have."

jcorozza wrote:
I already addressed this, but I was pretty sure that's why you were doing it, it just sounds like, from what others are saying, that it's not reading that way.

That's exactly what I was doing. I don't know how or why it's not reading that way, but I guess it wasn't. Shrug

jcorozza wrote:
It has nothing to do with it being dark humor - I often like dark/gallows humor, but yours is all self-directed.  And if you're holding it all in like that...that's gotta be difficult.

I thought it was dark goofy joke. :\ Not all of it is self-directed, though maybe it is. I suppose it is difficult, but I've done it for so many years that it's not a big deal for me to do. I keep it inside a lot so people will still hangout with me, the last thing I want to be is a serious downer.

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Post by kath on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:11 pm

Hey Mikey - would an explanation of how the OK matching algorithm works help? This can really focus how you answer questions, because the main point of the questions is that the answers of two people (and the set of questions both have answered) effects match percentages. Sorry if you already know this, but based on how you've been talking about answering questions, it doesn't sound like you're keeping this in mind if you do know it. So, for questions where you don't get the question or don't have any opinion, it can be very important to not answer them - because the algorithm can't read your explanations about not getting it, and will just make your match percentage very low with someone who did have strong opinions and excluded people who disagree or don't care. If there's someone where your match percentage is really low just because you didn't answer many of the same questions at all, well, better than exlcuding someone you are compatible with because you answered a bit haphazardly something that you didn't understand. It's also important to look at how you're answering the "how you'd like someone else to answer" questions and how you're weighting them. Not having anything in there will mean no one is going to be a great match (because there's no set of things that would define them to be great in the OKC computers), but if you have answers that are so strong as to exclude a lot of people, are a combination of answers that are unlikely to come from the same person, you also won't have much luck. I think answering in ways that will work for the OKC computers would also make you "look" rather consistent and considered for people scanning over your answers on your profile, too.

With thinking about how your profile is a representation of you, and how you can tailor that to the people you are interested in meeting, you might use the example of Chris McKinlay's approach (which involved a lot of data scraping and harvard computers number crunching, but the basic approach is, I think, doable without doing the background numbers): http://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/

Of course, just deciding not to do OKC / dating at all for now or forever are also totally valid choices and I'm not trying to pursuade you to do OKC, just giving you a bit more info for your arsenal of ways to approach it if you do want to do more of it.
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:59 pm

kath wrote:Hey Mikey - would an explanation of how the OK matching algorithm works help? This can really focus how you answer questions, because the main point of the questions is that the answers of two people (and the set of questions both have answered) effects match percentages. Sorry if you already know this, but based on how you've been talking about answering questions, it doesn't sound like you're keeping this in mind if you do know it.

I remember reading about the way the OKC system worked. I had that in mind when I filled my first 100 questions and I did answer a lot of my questions as honestly as I could and while trying to assign the best possible importance value.

kath wrote:
So, for questions where you don't get the question or don't have any opinion, it can be very important to not answer them - because the algorithm can't read your explanations about not getting it, and will just make your match percentage very low with someone who did have strong opinions and excluded people who disagree or don't care. If there's someone where your match percentage is really low just because you didn't answer many of the same questions at all, well, better than exlcuding someone you are compatible with because you answered a bit haphazardly something that you didn't understand. It's also important to look at how you're answering the "how you'd like someone else to answer" questions and how you're weighting them. Not having anything in there will mean no one is going to be a great match (because there's no set of things that would define them to be great in the OKC computers), but if you have answers that are so strong as to exclude a lot of people, are a combination of answers that are unlikely to come from the same person, you also won't have much luck. I think answering in ways that will work for the OKC computers would also make you "look" rather consistent and considered for people scanning over your answers on your profile, too.

So I would have had to have some sort of balance in my questions and the importance I layered on to those questions as well. There were plenty of questions I didn't understand and didn't answer, but more came up as I looked at more profiles. I think that was my second mistake.

kath wrote:
With thinking about how your profile is a representation of you, and how you can tailor that to the people you are interested in meeting, you might use the example of Chris McKinlay's approach (which involved a lot of data scraping and harvard computers number crunching, but the basic approach is, I think, doable without doing the background numbers): http://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/

Of course, just deciding not to do OKC / dating at all for now or forever are also totally valid choices and I'm not trying to pursuade you to do OKC, just giving you a bit more info for your arsenal of ways to approach it if you do want to do more of it.

Ahh, yes, Chris McKinlay. He's quite the math wizard. Yeah I read that article and it's pretty interesting. The basic approach being answer questions and answer them honestly, correct? But then again, McKinlay practically had a small squad of bots and other things running in order to collect a shit-ton of data for him. Something I don't know how to set up. D: Plus I didn't see anything about his profile that got women messaging him.

And thank you, I appreciate that. :3


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Post by Jayce on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:15 am

Hmm now that there's been a lot of discussion, what would be the top 5 practical things to do for people who are struggling to meet people who like them? Mikey, I think developing some plan of action that can be applied right now will really help, especially if you're feeling lost or overwhelmed at what to fix.

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Post by kath on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:22 am

Well, the only thing to take from his story isn't "so I need bots and a Harvard lab to do OKC". He learned a lot while doing that which anyone can apply to how they do OKC, without any of that equipment and without mathematical ability.

And actually, yes, his strategy did get people messaging him:

Wired Article wrote:He needed one more step to get noticed. OkCupid members are notified when some­one views their pages, so he wrote a new program to visit the pages of his top-rated matches, cycling by age: a thousand 41-year-old women on Monday, another thousand 40-year-old women on Tuesday, looping back through when he reached 27-year-olds two weeks later. Women reciprocated by visiting his profiles, some 400 a day. And messages began to roll in.

So here are lessons you could apply without using a ton of math and bots:


  • He grouped women by mathematically determining their characteristics, and then picked two groups to appeal to -> you can look at the women in your area (right now not worrying about whether they will like you or messaging them, or spending a lot of time on one profile - this is info-gathering), find some that you find interesting, and determine what the similarities are. What are people you like really like? Do they say anything about what appeals to them that fit a broad pattern? Do you match up with that at all? Are you the polar opposite?
  • You can check the answers they give for questions, and how they compare with yours, and how both sets of "someone else should answer" answers compare. Do you notice patterns? Is there any obvious way you should change how you are answering to still be honest, but to not unintentionally rule people out based on misunderstandings / confusion? Do you get the idea they have probably answered other questions you didn't (based on patterns of ones they've answered that you have)? Can you try answering some of those?
  • What are their profiles like? Are there broad patterns? How do they use language, how do they describe their lives? Are there any techniques you could employ too, that make a good impression on you? Can you use language in a similar way? (This is basically taking your cues from the people you're trying to attract) -> update your profile accordingly.
  • All this will involve a lot of browsing profiles of people you find interesting, which will notify people you've seen their profile. If you've updated yours to appeal to the group of people you're browsing profiles of, you have a higher chance that they would message first, and you would also have a lot more info to go on (as far as broad patterns of what these women seem to like) to tailor your message to.


This would basically be like going through OK Cupid trying to be a matchmaker representing you, than someone browsing for what you want. You're trying to put yourself in their shoes as best you can, and see through their eyes. But you need to be trying to do that from the perspective of a lot of different people for it to give you useful, broad-based conclusions that would be generally helpful.

This might be a labour-intensive process, but I think it would help a lot with understanding what speaks to you about different people (because unless you're finding that you're more attracted to a certain type of person, you can't target your profile to them, because two different groups of people would like very different sorts of men, and you can't be both at the same time), and also with thinking about yourself from their perspective.

(Jayce, you posted while I was typing, but for OKC I think this advice fits ... for Real Life ... actually for real life, a similar thing done on OKC for data collection and then taken into real life to meet that type of person at the places those people mention on their profiles might be a starting point?)
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Post by kleenestar on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:32 pm

Mikey, I apologize for not having time to read through this whole thread - I have less time than usual to post here because, well, baby. So if what I'm saying isn't helpful, forgive me.

One incredibly helpful thing you can do is not directly trying to meet women, but rather meet someone who is a connector - hooked into lots of different social circles and willing to make introductions. If a person like this likes you, they can help you meet single women that you would never otherwise have met. You don't run the social risks of dating within your circle, you don't have to deal with the hassles of online dating, and you don't need to cold approach.

Identifying people like this takes some work, but is not impossible. You can do things like ask people who introduced them to each other, or listen for things like "Oh, so-and-so knows everyone." The good news is that people like this know many different folks, which means you have lots of chances to meet someone who knows them and can point their way.

Once you've figured out who this person is, you can often approach them pretty bluntly. You don't have to "trick" them into helping you or become best buds before they will help. They gain social status from making introductions and connecting people, and it probably also makes them feel good. As long as you can show that you won't embarrass them, they are likely to be happy to help.

Does this sound at all feasible to you, or are you pretty focused on online dating for now?
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Post by Guest on Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:02 pm

EDIT: WTF, the forum bugged out and deleted my message.

Facepalm

OKIE, I'll reply to you two lovely ladies later tonight since I'm running late for class. Razz

-hugs-

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Post by Guest on Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:48 am

kath wrote:Well, the only thing to take from his story isn't "so I need bots and a Harvard lab to do OKC". He learned a lot while doing that which anyone can apply to how they do OKC, without any of that equipment and without mathematical ability.

Of course, but the bots and Harvard lab certainly helped and played their role. Razz

kath wrote:
And actually, yes, his strategy did get people messaging him:

Wired Article wrote:He needed one more step to get noticed. OkCupid members are notified when some­one views their pages, so he wrote a new program to visit the pages of his top-rated matches, cycling by age: a thousand 41-year-old women on Monday, another thousand 40-year-old women on Tuesday, looping back through when he reached 27-year-olds two weeks later. Women reciprocated by visiting his profiles, some 400 a day. And messages began to roll in.

What I didn't understand about people messaging him or visiting his profile is all that OKC does is tell you that they saw your profile but whoever sees that doesn't always automatically go look at that profile. I've messaged and visited a good number of profiles, but none ever came to my profile. Or maybe they did so "invisibly". Shrug

kath wrote:
So here are lessons you could apply without using a ton of math and bots:


  • He grouped women by mathematically determining their characteristics, and then picked two groups to appeal to -> you can look at the women in your area (right now not worrying about whether they will like you or messaging them, or spending a lot of time on one profile - this is info-gathering), find some that you find interesting, and determine what the similarities are. What are people you like really like? Do they say anything about what appeals to them that fit a broad pattern? Do you match up with that at all? Are you the polar opposite?
  • You can check the answers they give for questions, and how they compare with yours, and how both sets of "someone else should answer" answers compare. Do you notice patterns? Is there any obvious way you should change how you are answering to still be honest, but to not unintentionally rule people out based on misunderstandings / confusion? Do you get the idea they have probably answered other questions you didn't (based on patterns of ones they've answered that you have)? Can you try answering some of those?

A type of people I really like... depends really because everyone is kinda weird in their own right. But I'd say I really like artsy people, filmmakers and nerds alike. Unfortunately, I couldn't find many fellow female filmmakers (that's a mouthful Razz) on OKC, so I moved on to artsy and nerdy girls. I tried to find them as much as I could, but their presence fluctuated almost daily. D: The things most of those groups said that I matched up with those were, well, interests. Razz But also, social issues like LGBT rights and stuff like that, I could identify with.

The people who I didn't match well with the questions were those were religiously conscious, as in, there were some girls who were Christian and serious about it and in their questions definitely answered no to a lot of the sex questions. Now me, being the hornball I am, I passed on them because I don't share the same views about sex as they do. That's okay, that's their choice.

So, of course I'd go back and forth and look at their questions. Razz

kath wrote:
  • What are their profiles like? Are there broad patterns? How do they use language, how do they describe their lives? Are there any techniques you could employ too, that make a good impression on you? Can you use language in a similar way? (This is basically taking your cues from the people you're trying to attract) -> update your profile accordingly.
  • All this will involve a lot of browsing profiles of people you find interesting, which will notify people you've seen their profile. If you've updated yours to appeal to the group of people you're browsing profiles of, you have a higher chance that they would message first, and you would also have a lot more info to go on (as far as broad patterns of what these women seem to like) to tailor your message to.


  • Most girls I saw on OKC were pretty happy with their lives, or at least it seemed that way. Some were kinda gloomy which I didn't bother with because they also specified to not message them. Okay, I can respect that. Many of the profiles' use of language varied quite a lot, some of it was as eloquent as my writing while others... not so much. But hey, it happens, not a big deal, I understood what they said, so I didn't mind. I also would revise my profile on occasion, it wasn't regularly seeing as how I'd go WEEKS with my profile disabled, but when I turned it back on, I'd see what needed to be added or removed.

    I also thought about curating my profile to be like those who I wanted to message me, but it didn't work. I'd visit, but they never showed. Razz

    I just don't know how effective it'll be to visit everyone whose profile I'm interested in to get them to visit me. Because, like I said, I'd visit profiles and get nothing when later in the day or even the next day, I'll see them online. It's baffling. So I guess I'm doing something repulsive to not get them to visit. Shrug

    kath wrote:
    This would basically be like going through OK Cupid trying to be a matchmaker representing you, than someone browsing for what you want. You're trying to put yourself in their shoes as best you can, and see through their eyes. But you need to be trying to do that from the perspective of a lot of different people for it to give you useful, broad-based conclusions that would be generally helpful.

    This might be a labour-intensive process, but I think it would help a lot with understanding what speaks to you about different people (because unless you're finding that you're more attracted to a certain type of person, you can't target your profile to them, because two different groups of people would like very different sorts of men, and you can't be both at the same time), and also with thinking about yourself from their perspective.

    (Jayce, you posted while I was typing, but for OKC I think this advice fits ... for Real Life ... actually for real life, a similar thing done on OKC for data collection and then taken into real life to meet that type of person at the places those people mention on their profiles might be a starting point?)

    I feel like this sounds like it would be a lot of time and work to get done. On top of that it sounds like a logistical nightmare because it sounds like I would also be gathering a lot of data and classifying it and whatnot.

    kleenestar wrote:Mikey, I apologize for not having time to read through this whole thread - I have less time than usual to post here because, well, baby. So if what I'm saying isn't helpful, forgive me.

    Dude, you have a baby! Don't worry about me, you have better things to worry and think about than some (clearly) sexually frustrated kid on the U.S. West coast on the internet. Don't get me wrong, I definitely appreciate the thought. So of course, you're forgiven. :3 -hugs-

    kleenestar wrote:
    One incredibly helpful thing you can do is not directly trying to meet women, but rather meet someone who is a connector - hooked into lots of different social circles and willing to make introductions. If a person like this likes you, they can help you meet single women that you would never otherwise have met. You don't run the social risks of dating within your circle, you don't have to deal with the hassles of online dating, and you don't need to cold approach.

    Yes, I agree. I've tried doing this many times, I've made friends with connectors from all walks of life almost. But some times, even though they're the connector, they're still only human and others are still autonomous and so there's still a margin for error. Razz For example, I have a somewhat older female friend (shes 6 years older) who would tell me of her neighbors' escapades at their apartment complex, so then I'm wondering if there's any women there my age when she told me of a cougar neighbor she had. Turns out there are none that she knew of so I asked her if she knew any single girls my age, also nope. Razz

    kleenestar wrote:
    Identifying people like this takes some work, but is not impossible. You can do things like ask people who introduced them to each other, or listen for things like "Oh, so-and-so knows everyone." The good news is that people like this know many different folks, which means you have lots of chances to meet someone who knows them and can point their way.

    Oh, it's absolutely possible. The only problem I have is, I don't wanna come off like a creep-o that wants to bang all of his female friends and their friends.

    kleenestar wrote:
    Once you've figured out who this person is, you can often approach them pretty bluntly. You don't have to "trick" them into helping you or become best buds before they will help. They gain social status from making introductions and connecting people, and it probably also makes them feel good. As long as you can show that you won't embarrass them, they are likely to be happy to help.

    Does this sound at all feasible to you, or are you pretty focused on online dating for now?

    Again, my concern there is making myself look like an asshole that's only friends with the connector because I wanna date their female friends. Because that's not 100% honest. D:

    So yes, it does sound feasible, but I think I'm done with OLD and maybe dating in general for some time. Which is gonna be hard because I see cute girls every day at school/work, so it sucks I can't approach for jack. :I

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    Post by reboot on Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:05 am

    OK, radical thought. If you see women in common interest settings (e.g. while working-but not coworkers, in school, making films, at screenings) go up and talk to them the first time you see them without asking them out, do that again the next time you see them and ask for social media contact info, interact on social media (also check relationship status) and see is you are each others type of people, and then ask them on dates the next time you see them.

    These are lukewarm approaches. You are somewhere between "people I see around" and acquaintances. You have few to no common acquaintances.

    Do this over and over and over. Most of these dates will not happen, most of the ones that happen will go nowhere, but you need to break out of your oneitis tendencies and the best way to do that is to ask out so many people that you break your obsession node.
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    Post by Guest on Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:19 am

    reboot wrote:OK, radical thought. If you see women in common interest settings (e.g. while working-but not coworkers, in school, making films, at screenings) go up and talk to them the first time you see them without asking them out, do that again the next time you see them and ask for social media contact info, interact on social media (also check relationship status) and see is you are each others type of people, and then ask them on dates the next time you see them.

    These are lukewarm approaches. You are somewhere between "people I see around" and acquaintances. You have few to no common acquaintances.

    Do this over and over and over. Most of these dates will not happen, most of the ones that happen will go nowhere, but you need to break out of your oneitis tendencies and the best way to do that is to ask out so many people that you break your obsession node.

    Right on, seems do-able. But I also need to break my approach anxiety barrier which is harder than it sounds.

    NOTE: I work at a college computer lab and we're not even allowed to pull out our phones. So, hitting on students is a no-no, my boss is kinda weird about it though, he does and he doesn't care (I also thought that was considered unprofessional?). D:

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    Post by kath on Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:01 am

    I'm not sure it's harder than it sounds - it sounds really hard Smile. But the way you break your approach anxiety is approaching people to chat with them, and then build up to asking them out, so the solutions are the same.

    (Unless anyone else has tips for thinking oneself out of approach anxiety, which I would love to hear!)
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    Post by Guest on Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:29 am

    Yes, I was trying to stay a little more on the positive side. Razz Correct, a good way to get over that romantic approach anxiety is pants shittingly terrifying.

    So, I, too would appreciate some techniques for that sort of deal too. Razz

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    Post by KMR on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:47 pm

    I struggle with anxiety and avoidance in a number of situations that push me out of my comfort zone, and I'm not always so great at dealing with it, but I have pushed past it on occasion and I am pretty good at analyzing my mental state when I'm dealing with anxiety. So I have some thoughts that are a bit more on the abstract side, and maybe you or someone else can adapt them into more concrete strategies.

    I've said this before in another thread: the idea is not to try to get rid of the fear/anxiety, but to push yourself to take action despite the feelings of fear/anxiety. There are two things I've found to be helpful for me in doing this.

    The first is to make a mental commitment to act. When I'm afraid to do something, the first thing my brain does is make plans/excuses for how to get out of doing it (or delay doing it, which can result in an infinite loop of "I'll do it later"). When I'm in this state, it's extremely hard to resist the urge to take one of those exit strategies. In contrast, when I'm in a situation that I know I can't get out of, my brain knows it's pointless to try to make exit strategies, so instead it focuses on processing the feelings of anxiety and motivating myself to do what must be done. So the idea is to try to make those avoidable situations feel more like the unavoidable ones, so that your mental state can shift into a more productive mode. Tell yourself, "I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do it today. This is happening, so deal with it, brain." Then you can work on making a plan of action, rather than a plan of avoidance.

    Another thing that can help is to force yourself to make quick decisions. A lot of what fuels the anxiety is over-thinking, especially if you are prone to thoughts about worst-case scenarios or self-doubt, because your brain will just use that to make more excuses to avoid the situation. I have many moments where I'll get the impulse to do something but will talk myself out of it if I wait too long. (Heck, that's about half the reason why I don't post here very often.) So if you're in a headspace where your brain is telling you it wants to take action and is feeling good about it, make your commitment to act right then and there. DNL's 3-second rule for approaches operates on this same principle and may be helpful here.
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    Post by jcorozza on Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:13 pm

    I set up rewards for myself for doing things that give me anxiety. A big one for me is making phone calls to strangers. If I force myself to do it despite being really anxious about it, I will set aside time afterwards to watch a show I like - which is nice, because I can look forward to relaxing and taking my mind off of my anxiety.
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    Post by Guest on Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:35 pm

    @KMR, that's brilliant advice. I've tried the commitment thing before and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't always work. Although, I think maybe making quick decisions may help and just pushing through will too despite my brain disagreeing. But I like that line, "This is happening, brain, so deal with it." Razz

    @jcorozza, rewards, huh? I usually treat myself after a very rough patch with food. Razz Or if I accomplished something major, also treat myself with food. Grin

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    Post by Guest on Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:55 am

    Some quick thoughts about my situations...

    -cue silly theme music-

    ...maybe I'm not as creepy as I think I actually am. As in, probably not at all (with a few unintentional moments).

    Background to this realization:

    See, today, I asked a female friend/co-worker (who, for our sake I'll call E) about one of her friends who came into our lab a few weeks ago who just so happens to be extremely cute. Anyway, I had meant to ask E about her friend just to tease E but I forgot about it and I got the brilliant (read: stupid) idea to ask about E's friend earlier tonight. I told her, "I don't mean to be weird or anything like that, but I'm genuinely curious as to who your friend is." E wasn't fully sure who the heck I was talking about but eventually got the hint and said, "Oh, you mean H? Does she have really light blue eyes you could see from far away?" (obviously not E's friend's name). I nodded and E said, "Oh yeah, she's really nice and her eyes are also really pretty; she was also the one S (a male co-worker, who's name also isn't S) was asking me about too."

    I laughed that last bit off and said, "Really!? Oh jeez, I know I joked about it that time but I seriously didn't know who S was talking about that day, but that's seriously her?!"

    "Yep! Why, you think she's pretty?"

    "Mmm, yeah, maybe a little," I said. "But what I find funny is you told me her name but you didn't tell S."

    "Yeah, that's because he's creepy and he might do something creepy."

    I took that as I'm cool enough/trustworthy enough to not be creepy. Razz

    E's correct, S is totally on the creepy side. Him and I used to be cool but he began turning into a creepier and creepier douche as time went on. He kept bugging E about adding her on Facebook and what have you as well as making awkward conversation (and I don't mean the kind that starts off weird but gets better, it starts weird and stays there).

    So there you have it, looks like I can indeed be trustworthy/not creepy which legit makes me happy. Razz

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    Post by reboot on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:25 am

    Now that is what I call a solid data point. Your creepy fears might just be overblown. It is a pretty strong one because E is protecting a friend from S, but not you.

    How close are you to E or other women friends? Close enough that you could tell her/them you would like to meet women (not H but general women) but do not know where to start (a white lie since you have some ideas but are afraid to start)? Do you think she/they might wing woman for you?

    I think you might benefit from having a woman around to ask "If I do this, will it be creepy?" for in person approaches. The best women to ask to be wing woman are those who are not single. Otherwise you run the risk of asking someone who may like you, but for some reason you never noticed her, to help you meet women, which is awkward.
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    Post by Werel on Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:11 pm

    That's awesome, Mikey! Clearly you are not the kind of person women feel the need to protect their friends from. Which is a very good kind of person to be, if you want to date women. Razz

    reboot's suggestion of finding a wing-woman is a really, really good thing to consider. Do you know anybody who's either not single or not straight who might fit the bill? For lots of girls (at least for me), that's a massively fun favor to be asked if they generally like the dude in question, so don't feel too shy about making casual, low-pressure inquiries (reboot's script is good).
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    Post by Guest on Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:29 am

    reboot wrote:Now that is what I call a solid data point. Your creepy fears might just be overblown. It is a pretty strong one because E is protecting a friend from S, but not you.

    Yes, certainly! Other ladies have said I had a cute personality, others have said I have nice eyes, one said I was a real catch and couldn't understand why I didn't have a girlfriend yet. Razz Another said I certainly wasn't bad looking, course she had to be careful with her wording since she's married. Laughing I've been considered noble and commended  for remaining a virgin as well. So I think those are all interesting traits I got and Im still wondering why I'm single. Razz

    Although, one of the interns did ask me if I had a girlfriend, but I think that was more genuine get-to-know-you-chit-chat. Razz

    reboot wrote:
    How close are you to E or other women friends? Close enough that you could tell her/them you would like to meet women (not H but general women) but do not know where to start (a white lie since you have some ideas but are afraid to start)? Do you think she/they might wing woman for you?

    I think you might benefit from having a woman around to ask "If I do this, will it be creepy?" for in person approaches. The best women to ask to be wing woman are those who are not single. Otherwise you run the risk of asking someone who may like you, but for some reason you never noticed her, to help you meet women, which is awkward.

    I'm pretty close to some women friends, not all of them, I'm a little closer to Married Friend, but when you're married you have a different circle of friends than when you're single sometimes. The only problem I would have with E though, would be that she's friends with mostly middle eastern ladies, who, from what E's told me, are only into middle eastern dudes and date middle eastern dudes almost exclusively. Which is not a big deal.

    And yeah, I'm pretty sure a few female friends would probably be willing to be my wing-women. :3 Thankfully, they all also have boyfriends or aren't looking for anyone.

    Werel wrote:That's awesome, Mikey! Clearly you are not the kind of person women feel the need to protect their friends from. Which is a very good kind of person to be, if you want to date women. Razz

    reboot's suggestion of finding a wing-woman is a really, really good thing to consider. Do you know anybody who's either not single or not straight who might fit the bill? For lots of girls (at least for me), that's a massively fun favor to be asked if they generally like the dude in question, so don't feel too shy about making casual, low-pressure inquiries (reboot's script is good).

    Yes, of course! It makes me glad as well and reassures me too. Razz

    I also do have a few good candidates to be wingwomen, Married Friend who I mentioned earlier (but she doesn't party much and lives in suburbia now), the two interns, my friend L (who, her and Married Friend thought about finding me a wife, which is very thoughtfu :3) and some others.

    But I'll definitely keep in mind reboots script. Although L and Married Friend got really excited about possibly finding me a wife. It was really sweet of them. Grin

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