I am so incredibly stupid

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Post by Enail on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:54 pm

Glides, I'd suggest that you work on ways to identify and connect with people who are not judgemental shitheads inclined to humiliate former sex partners. Demonstrating non-judgmentality yourself, especially about sex, and showing respect for people who are willing to be vulnerable for the sake of human connection, might help with that. Also, keep an eye out for people who don't discuss their sexual experiences in unkind terms, or who don't discuss them much at all, people who are not homophobic, and people who are respectful of boundaries and show care for the feelings of others.

And especially, be careful that your attempts to fit in don't result in you giving the impression that you're like the people you're describing, and that your insecurity doesn't lead you to try to humiliate people who've hurt you or who you're afraid will, or it might chase away people who value kindness, genuineness and respect, when those are exactly the kinds of people you should seek out if you want a partner who's okay with the two of you figuring things out as you go and who won't be a judgmental gossip about sex.
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Post by reboot on Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:37 am

Enail wrote:Glides, I'd suggest that you work on ways to identify and connect with people who are not judgemental shitheads inclined to humiliate former sex partners. Demonstrating non-judgmentality yourself, especially about sex, and showing respect for people who are willing to be vulnerable for the sake of human connection, might help with that. Also, keep an eye out for people who don't discuss their sexual experiences in unkind terms, or who don't discuss them much at all, people who are not homophobic, and people who are respectful of boundaries and show care for the feelings of others.

And especially, be careful that your attempts to fit in don't result in you giving the impression that you're like the people you're describing, and that your insecurity doesn't lead you to try to humiliate people who've hurt you or who you're afraid will, or it might chase away people who value kindness, genuineness and respect, when those are exactly the kinds of people you should seek out if you want a partner who's okay with the two of you figuring things out as you go and who won't be a judgmental gossip about sex.

^ This. A thousand times this
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Post by BasedBuzzed on Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:43 am

You want to perform above standard, to give her such perfect sex that she'll sing your praises? What if she's ashamed of enjoying herself to the point that she flips that experience into something like "he was too pleasing"/"ew, it's like he enjoyed lapping at me like a dog"/"he was so sensitive towards my needs, I think he might be gay"(hello, What Women Want). I mean, look at some of the acts you do in order to protect your self-worth(thrash-talk and self-sabotage even when you like the person) and then imagine that some dudettes might be doing the exact same thing.

Even if you moved to Liberal Paradise, you'll still run into a potential clusterfuck of toxic peeps. People who try to guilt-trip you into kinks you don't like, people who will diagnose your hang-ups as "lol str8 white boi with a sad penis", people who see you as the ideal victim for their emotional predator tendencies while disguising it under a thin veneer of progressivism, and overly sympathetic fixer-uppers who will stunt your growth are all obstacles you can run into.

There's no failsafe to protect you against a negative outcome completely: key is getting to a point where you can take those blows.

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:33 am

Glides wrote:
ElizaJane wrote: I feel like you want a rulebook that if you study it long enough and do the right exercises, you will become Good At Sex.  But there is no Good At Sex.  There is Good At Sex with this person, and everybody has to reset and learn from a new partner.

That's exactly what I want. I mean, what use is watching every instructional video you can find (it's really the only porn I watch, and I'm not watching it for my enjoyment), studying every possible technique, trying to memorize literally everything if you'll panic and forget it all assuming the moment happens?

Please understand, I am saying this with love.

If this is your criteria for success, you will fail. It doesn't matter how hard you study. You have set your passing grade to Kobayashi Maru levels. There is no perfect sex. I have never had perfect sex. I have had very, very good sex, but I have never once, in my life, had sex where no part of it was either "meh" or "ack!" or "oops." If your reaction to those moment is, "Crap, I failed, and now the sex is bad," you will never have good sex. Ever.

You NEED to change your standards. I know it's hard for you to do, but you need to get past this.

"The reason we struggle with insecurity is because we compare our behind-the-scenes with everyone else's highlight reel." -Steve Furtick

Thought exercise: Let's say you were having sex, and in the middle of it, the woman you were with -- a woman you liked a lot -- farted. She lets out an embarrassed laugh, in the middle of happy sounds, and you laugh back, and the rhythm falls apart for a few seconds while you laugh together, then you are back in the moment, and end happy.

Are you going to tell your friends about the fart later to laugh at her? Is she? (Note: if your answer is "yes", then I think it's better if you leave the poor women alone until it's not anymore.)

With that in mind, do the think that maybe the sex your friends are having is maybe a little messier or less perfect than you're hearing about? Maybe you're getting their (very photoshopped) highlight reel, and picturing your own messy behind-the-scenes?

Maybe this is a digression for another thread, but does anyone know of any good erotic literature or film that shows the messy, complicated, fun reality of sex instead of the highlight reel version?

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Post by Caffeinated on Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:26 pm

Glides wrote:
ElizaJane wrote: I feel like you want a rulebook that if you study it long enough and do the right exercises, you will become Good At Sex.  But there is no Good At Sex.  There is Good At Sex with this person, and everybody has to reset and learn from a new partner.

That's exactly what I want. I mean, what use is watching every instructional video you can find (it's really the only porn I watch, and I'm not watching it for my enjoyment), studying every possible technique, trying to memorize literally everything if you'll panic and forget it all assuming the moment happens?

Eh, I think actually with some study of decent reference materials, you can prepare yourself to be pretty good at sex. The first person I slept with was as inexperienced as I was, and had read up on anything he could about how to do sex stuff, and I think it did actually help. Sure, you have to calibrate for the individual body of the person you're with as far as "a little to the left" or "more pressure/less pressure" etc, but better to know the basic layout of things than not to.

Glides wrote:I don't think the people I know are like that. It's a very "do one thing wrong and never talk to me again" kind of environment. It's the way I am by default, I don't tend to forgive and I hold grudges simply because it takes too much effort to forgive.

I've ended friendships over some pretty trivial things, honestly. Girl tries to get me to masturbate over webcam in order for her to emasculate me? I cut her off. (No, I wasn't misreading things, don't even start it). Coworker I go on a date with uses me for free food and a way to avoid a creepy ex? Cut the fuck off. In my personal history, all it takes to ruin any kind of permanent interaction with a person is one mistake or fuckup. So I simply do the same to others because I don't want to be hurt first.

This all sounds so toxic. Your attitudes and the attitudes of the people around you. You have a choice about the attitudes you hold on to and the people you choose to associate with socially. Personally, I think the toxic stuff makes things both higher stakes and less rewarding. But not necessarily impossible. It's your choice.

Glides wrote:So in a bedroom situation, one wrong thrust or one wrong movement or me finishing early for whatever reason, one fuckup seems like a perfectly good excuse to disgust a girl with standards and expectations and then leading to inevitable public humiliation (why I assume every possible girl I sleep with will do this is strange)

Maybe you assume that sleeping with a toxic person could lead to bad outcomes? Again, your choice.
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Post by PintsizeBro on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:37 pm

Caffeinated wrote:Maybe you assume that sleeping with a toxic person could lead to bad outcomes? Again, your choice.  

Yeah, I'm going to second the suggestion to not have sex with toxic people. If you think a woman is going to publicly humiliate you for making a simple mistake or having a brief moment of awkwardness, don't have sex with her. Men are allowed to say no too.

And if you're completely wrong, and she would not do that to you but you can't shake the feeling that she would, still don't have sex with her. Not because there's anything wrong with her, but because you still shouldn't be with someone you don't feel safe with.

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Post by Suika on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:08 pm

For a person without abundance mentality, saying no to sex isn't the easiest thing in the world.
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Post by Werel on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:17 pm

No, it's not easy to say no to sex, abundance mentality or no. But lots of things that are a good idea aren't easy. "It's hard" is a lousy reason to not train yourself to make good choices. Razz
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Post by Suika on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:27 pm

That depends on the importance that one places on sex, I suppose.
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Post by PintsizeBro on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:46 pm

If you had a peanut allergy, would you eat peanuts if you were hungry and they were the only food available, or would you go without because you realize that eating the peanuts would leave you worse off than going hungry? Saying no to bad sex doesn't require the abundance mentality, it just requires the ability to understand that actions have consequences.

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Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2015 11:34 am

BasedBuzzed wrote:You want to perform above standard, to give her such perfect sex that she'll sing your praises? What if she's ashamed of enjoying herself to the point that she flips that experience into something like "he was too pleasing"/"ew, it's like he enjoyed lapping at me like a dog"/"he was so sensitive towards my needs, I think he might be gay"(hello, What Women Want). I mean, look at some of the acts you do in order to protect your self-worth(thrash-talk and self-sabotage even when you like the person) and then imagine that some dudettes might be doing the exact same thing.

Even if you moved to Liberal Paradise, you'll still run into a potential clusterfuck of toxic peeps. People who try to guilt-trip you into kinks you don't like, people who will diagnose your hang-ups as "lol str8 white boi with a sad penis", people who see you as the ideal victim for their emotional predator tendencies while disguising it under a thin veneer of progressivism, and overly sympathetic fixer-uppers who will stunt your growth are all obstacles you can run into.

There's no failsafe to protect you against a negative outcome completely: key is getting to a point where you can take those blows.

Speaking of self-sabotage...

A friend of mine took me aside yesterday and more or less straight up told me off for being the giant asshole that I am. I was surprised that he acted like it was a surprise that I am an asshole.

Anyway, he claimed that once upon a time, I used to be good and nice and kind, and I encountered so many toxic people over the years that I've slowly become identical to them. I couldn't deny that. He claimed that the situation with the coworker happened because I'd gotten so insecure and scared of fucking things up that I ended up fucking things up anyway. If I'd just had enough self-confidence to not treat her like complete trash, this post wouldn't even exist and I'd be happily on my way to compensating for being a virgin for so long. He claimed she'd gotten seriously upset and assumed I'd lost attraction to her.

Not like there's any way to salvage things with her, because I absolutely will not apologize even though she definitely deserves one. I'm a little too ashamed to even be in her presence, and she's pretty well ingrained in the friend group now (ironically she joined it to begin with to get with me, apparently).

Reason why she was so into me in the first place is because my buddy seriously talked me up before we met. So I got confused when this absolutely gorgeous girl suddenly expressed very obvious interest, and it's because he had portrayed me as some kind of party-animal sex god, an image the real Glides is the opposite of and simply couldn't compete with.

So what happened, from his viewpoint: we went on a date, I got really shy, she mentions that an ex of hers has been stalking her, I immediately assume that she's only going out with me to get this creep to go away, treat her like absolute garbage in retaliation for something she apparently never even did, she thinks I'm not attracted to her and we spent several weeks destroying both of our reputations at work in the process, to the point where she literally quit over it.

The friend group took her side and it explains why I've been so isolated: when a guy treats a girl like shit for seemingly no reason, the guy inevitably loses.

I countered with the fact that back in the day in which I was nice, I was doing so for personal reward through validation, got so annoyed of never being rewarded for being nice that I gave up on it and turned into a massive dick by virtue of abandoning my own filter. No, it's not even remotely mature.

So my own insecurity not only destroyed my entire social life and career, but also validated every opinion I've ever had about myself. To be fair, any time I could be using to socialize, I sleep. Literally anything besides working and school is all sleeping now. I sleep a lot. I've become very misanthropic lately, I go through life in a perpetually rotten mood. Could even explain why I don't get along with anyone at film school, because I've become the exact kind of person who would beat the shit out of me in middle school.

I'm bringing all this up with the therapist as ultimate justification of "Glides is Screwed, Give Him Your Blessing To Let Him Die." I verbally abused a potential romantic interest with no remorse or guilt, alienated my entire social group and my classmates and am such a gigantic asshole that my boss is counting down the days until I quit. I would say that whenever I think things can't get any worse, they always find a way. It's the one consistent part of my life: making things worse and worse and worse and worse with no signs of improvement.

The thing that baffles me is the fact that this girl is legit gorgeous. Aside from that other girl I've mentioned (the one I scared off whose boyfriend has an elephant cock), she's the most gorgeous person to ever be interested in me out of the very few girls who have been interested in me. I assume it's because no matter how ugly a man is, if your charismatic buddy who gets all kinds of ass (he's knee deep in it and he's got worse depression than me, isn't life weird?) talks you up, you turn into Mick Jagger or Ron Jeremy in their eyes. Profoundly stupid person with no standards, yes. But she didn't deserve to be treated the way I treated her.

On the bright side, I gave her a hard helping of tough love: never date a man who hates himself. Leave them to rot, they don't deserve love and compassion. Looking at the way I've treated her and others, the way my hurt has poisoned me beyond repair, I actually have to die a virgin now. I have to sabotage every opportunity I might get just to keep women away from me, for their own good. I simply can't be trusted with an adult relationship of any capacity, let alone a friendship.

So I will die alone, it is a certainty and a guarantee now. What I need to learn now is how not to complain about it on the forum anymore, how to accept my punishment with humility and mental strength. I can never be with any woman, I can never experience a single moment's happiness, never again. I'm taking a vow of celibacy here and now. And no matter how stupid the woman, I can't violate it and hurt her. I am poison and I must be secluded and quarantined from others.


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Post by Enail on Fri May 01, 2015 1:35 pm

Glides, you are not poison, you just - as you recognized yourself - currently handle your self-hatred and insecurity in ways that can be harmful and unkind. That is a problem, I am very much not saying that you get a pass for your behavior, but it is a problem that you can solve. People who hate themselves are not inevitably unkind about it, and they don't deserve love and compassion any less than anyone else. This is a defensive habit you've gotten into, and you can get out of it as well.

You clearly do feel remorse when you hurt others, you seem to spend quite a lot of time feeling guilty about it, in fact. But feeling guilty doesn't help anything. So maybe this is something you should work on - and it sounds like it would help with other social issues as well.  

One thing that I think might be a good idea is looking at the kinds of situations that tend to trigger that insecure/vengeful reaction and planning ahead for them. Plan a few non-mean ways out of situations that stress you out or upset you so that you've got them ready to go instead of having to decide how to handle it in the heat of the moment. Maybe figure out some cues to alert you to when your jerkbrain is taking over in that way, and develop some strategies to pause, deescalate or otherwise keep yourself from harmful reactions.

You might also want to consider taking things a bit more slowly. Not secluding and quarantining yourself, but maybe don't force yourself into doing things so far out of your comfort zone that they'll put you in a state of fight-or-flight straight off the bat. Instead of constantly going back and forth between pushing yourself into trying to have sex ASAP at all costs and then deciding you have to isolate yourself totally in the backlash from that, keep your goals smaller and more manageable, build up your comfort and ability to handle things gradually so that it's not such a roller-coaster on your self-worth and your stress level, and thus possibly doesn't trigger your attack reactions.
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Post by BasedBuzzed on Fri May 01, 2015 6:09 pm

I'd tell this friend to never use smooth talk to set up a date again. Setting you up on dates? Ah-okay. Giving an evaluation of his own experiences as your friend? Also cool. But buttering her up beforehand just feels gross and dishonest.

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Post by Guest on Fri May 01, 2015 9:06 pm

Glides wrote:
So what happened, from his viewpoint: we went on a date, I got really shy, she mentions that an ex of hers has been stalking her, I immediately assume that she's only going out with me to get this creep to go away, treat her like absolute garbage in retaliation for something she apparently never even did, she thinks I'm not attracted to her and we spent several weeks destroying both of our reputations at work in the process, to the point where she literally quit over it.


You didn't just assume, you jumped straight to a conclusion, formulated a judgement on her and decided to be a dick to her for some (seemingly) BS story.

Like you, I have the same problem. But I try not to jump straight to conclusions unless I have proof otherwise, I err on the side of caution.

EDIT: you talked about this girl too and I was confused as to why she was talking shit to you for no real discernible reason. Now things are beginning to make sense. Now I understand *why* she was "flirting" with other dudes at work from what you were saying back then. Now I get why she was talking shit. She was trying to get your attention, albeit in a rather immature way, but hey she got it, just not in the way she wanted.

I dunno why she decided bail from work, coulda been you, coulda been a transfer, coulda gotten a better job offer somewhere else, I dunno. If she left because of you, that's drastic but I understand.

Anyway, seeing it from another perspective really helped *me* put two & two together as what was goin on with this girl of yours.

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