How to Cold Approach Without Being Creepy/Harassing

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Post by Gentleman Johnny on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:40 am

eselle28 wrote:
Gentleman Johnny wrote:If not, have fun talking about how Captain America would probably be more liberal than the average American today then move on.

Off topic, but that's a damn good pickup line/subject. Or at least it sounds like a much more interesting conversation than the usual where do you live/what do you do/where do you hang out pitter patter.

Its all about context. The kind of person I picture leading to that subject on would have to have an Avengers or Cap related title in their hand and be wearing something with a bit of vintage flair. I'm betting Marty would fit the bill pretty often. Also, there's a tumblr called Historically Accurate Steve that deals with the subject of what the attitudes of a kid growing up in an orphanage in 20's-30's New York City would probably be like. Remember that Cap went from depression era NYC to the war, so when he woke up that was the sum total of his life experience. He's not a farm boy. He wasn't especially well traveled or educated but he lived in one of the most progressive neighborhoods in the world relative to our current social mores.
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Post by Gentleman Johnny on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:42 am

[quote="The Mikey"]
eselle28 wrote:
Gentleman Johnny wrote:
I think that's part of it. A lot of guys, when they see a very attractive woman who's got some similar interests (eg is in the comic shop at all) immediately develop something of a crush. She's a one of a kind, a geek unicorn who must be approached with the utmost caution lest she be scared away. I still get that initial flash but it washes over me quickly enough. It gets a lot easier to approach a woman when you're just interested in talking about stuff instead of picking out your wedding suit in your head. If there's chemistry, great. Escalate. If not, have fun talking about how Captain America would probably be more liberal than the average American today then move on.

Ahh, in that hypothetical scenario, I'd just leave them alone. I'm sure they get bothered enough by other dudes, so I'll leave them be. And if I'm attracted to them I'd be nervous as hell anyway, and that would also keep me away, so everyone wins! Grin

what am i doing neutering my romantic life D:

The trick to it is to go ahead and be attracted but don't lead with it and don't sweat whether or not anything comes of it. If you don't talk to her, nothing happens, so you're not going to be any worse off for for striking up a conversation on the parallels between the Silver Surfer and Henry Kissinger. On the other hand, she might have an angle on the whole Galactus Is Nixon topic that you'd never considered. Yes, I pulled that whole concept out of my ass, so don't go Googling for it.
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Post by reboot on Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:30 am

Honestly I can only think of a single couple I know who met with a dead cold approach, except for those that met online (a very cold approach). Everyone else was lukewarm (part of the same, large expat group) to warm. One night stands or short term flings are a bit different. The people I know who succeed with those are the people that talk to damned near everyone (exception made for no shared language) willing to talk, everywhere they go. It is less an approach and more one of the hundred of conversations they have that night/day that takes an interesting turn.
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Post by Gman on Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:45 am

Man, I have discovered that cold approaches are just not my style. I don't handle myself well in those situations, so I prefer at least a place/group/situation where there is something in common to talk about and spring-jump from there if it's going well.
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Post by Mel on Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:52 am

The Mikey wrote:
Mel wrote:
In addition to what GJ said, I think you need to remember that the vast majority of people do not meet their romantic partners through cold approaches.

Well then how does anyone meet their partner... ? scratch

Statistically speaking, mostly the ways I listed below: through school or work, through their extracurricular social circles, through online dating, etc.

The Mikey wrote:
Mel wrote:
It's far from a necessary skill when it comes to dating.  If you're not comfortable with feeling out each situation and person and figuring out when you think it's appropriate, stick to meeting people at school/work, interest groups, social gatherings, etc. and asking out women you become acquainted with that way, and/or use OLD, and that's actually more likely to work out, statistically speaking!  Smile

Heh, thanks for the suggestions. :3 I've seriously tried all those suggestions and no dice, most of these I've gone with the intention of not looking for anyone because I think it's a shitty thing to go somewhere with the sole intention of wanting to fuck someone. Plus OLD I find to be just as terrifying as cold approaching; I'd find a profile I like aaaand then I'd move on. :\

Well, I wasn't suggesting you should go to school/work, interest groups, social gatherings, etc. solely to find someone to have sex with. It's about getting to know people in general, and maybe one of those people will end up being a woman you find attractive, or be someone who invites you to do something else where you meet a woman you find attractive, and you can then get to know that woman a little better and get a sense of whether she's open to dating and enjoying your company before pursuing her romantically.

Why do you find OLD just as terrifying as cold approaching? The benefits with OLD are that you know that every woman on there is in fact looking for a guy to date and wants guys to message her, and if you don't happen to appeal to her it's usually as simple as not getting a response. I would think that should reduce a lot of the anxiety, given that the biggest issues with cold approaches are a) the high possibility of bothering someone who isn't available and/or interested in considering dating options at this moment, and b) having to face that high chance of rejection face to face. If you're too anxious to even work yourself up to writing a message to a woman you know wants to hear from guys, then I don't think you should be worrying about in person cold approaches right now, I think you should be working on reducing your anxiety in general. What's you're talking about here sounds kind of like trying to figure out how to run a marathon when you have a sprained ankle that's preventing you from even walking around the block.
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Post by kath on Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:26 am

nearly_takuan wrote:
I guess you're supposed to know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who isn't repulsed by the idea of you wanting to have dinner with them (and vice versa, of course, but after a point one gets the feeling that one has no right to any criteria at all).

The only thing about "know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who isn't repulsed by the idea of you wanting to have dinner with them ... " that implies "you have no right to standards" is using the words "isn't repulsed" instead of "wants to". That's a bias introduced by your word choice.

The extended-social-group context probably doesn't change how likely, on average, one of the random people you meet through the social group is to like you versus the population in general.
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Post by Enail on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:15 am

kath wrote:
The extended-social-group context probably doesn't change how likely, on average, one of the random people you meet through the social group is to like you versus the population in general.

I'd imagine that a random person you meet through your extended social group is more likely to like you, because they likely have some commonalities in interest, humour, preferred style of interaction, etc.
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Post by eselle28 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:25 pm

Gentleman Johnny wrote:
eselle28 wrote:
Gentleman Johnny wrote:If not, have fun talking about how Captain America would probably be more liberal than the average American today then move on.

Off topic, but that's a damn good pickup line/subject. Or at least it sounds like a much more interesting conversation than the usual where do you live/what do you do/where do you hang out pitter patter.

Its all about context. The kind of person I picture leading to that subject on would have to have an Avengers or Cap related title in their hand and be wearing something with a bit of vintage flair. I'm betting Marty would fit the bill pretty often. Also, there's a tumblr called Historically Accurate Steve that deals with the subject of what the attitudes of a kid growing up in an orphanage in 20's-30's New York City would probably be like. Remember that Cap went from depression era NYC to the war, so when he woke up that was the sum total of his life experience. He's not a farm boy. He wasn't especially well traveled or educated but he lived in one of the most progressive neighborhoods in the world relative to our current social mores.

Okay, now I'm going to have to check out Historically Accurate Steve, because that sounds like just my mix of superhero and history.

I hadn't actually known Cap's backstory beyond what was portrayed in the movie, so when I went to his Marvel wiki and read that he was the child of Irish immigrants who grew up as an orphan in New York, my inner political science major nodded and agreed that at least demographically, that sounds like a New Deal Democrat. Throw in that he seems to be much more progressive than his peers about race and gender, or at least doesn't seem to mind having a black man as his boss and a woman as his partner, and I'm going to guess Steve is a big old lefite. Which is kind of amusing, given that the concept of patriotism has become very associated with the other party.
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Post by nearly_takuan on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:50 pm

kath wrote:
nearly_takuan wrote:
I guess you're supposed to know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who isn't repulsed by the idea of you wanting to have dinner with them (and vice versa, of course, but after a point one gets the feeling that one has no right to any criteria at all).

The only thing about "know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who isn't repulsed by the idea of you wanting to have dinner with them ... " that implies "you have no right to standards" is using the words "isn't repulsed" instead of "wants to". That's a bias introduced by your word choice.

I choose words that reflect my experiences, and my experiences inform my beliefs, and my beliefs include biases, so yes.

My locale lacks much of a meeting place for math-enthusiasts, and most of my other interests tend to have far more men involved in them than women. Generously estimating that a third of the people in attendance at a given gathering are women, that a twentieth of them are open to asexual lifestyles (I feel like I'm harping on this sometimes but it is an issue), that a tenth of those aren't already in relationships—aren't I just combing a haystack for a brand of needle that may not exist?

How to Cold Approach Without Being Creepy/Harassing - Page 2 Tumblr_lz7krqdQ2O1r7cysao1_500

Shut up, Han.
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Post by Gentleman Johnny on Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:10 pm

eselle28 wrote:
Okay, now I'm going to have to check out Historically Accurate Steve, because that sounds like just my mix of superhero and history.

I hadn't actually known Cap's backstory beyond what was portrayed in the movie, so when I went to his Marvel wiki and read that he was the child of Irish immigrants who grew up as an orphan in New York, my inner political science major nodded and agreed that at least demographically, that sounds like a New Deal Democrat. Throw in that he seems to be much more progressive than his peers about race and gender, or at least doesn't seem to mind having a black man as his boss and a woman as his partner, and I'm going to guess Steve is a big old lefite. Which is kind of amusing, given that the concept of patriotism has become very associated with the other party.

Don't you just dig that Steve would be a huge supporter of unions? Smile

Another point that they make in the blog is don't forget that he's not even 30. Yeah, ok, he was born in the 20s but hes not some "get of my lawn" grand dad, he's a guy in the prime of his life. I really loved all of this because it takes him from being a kind of flat Superman type boy scout to one with a lot of depth and nuance. Its also pointed out in one of hte posts that he grew up six blocks from one of Ne York's largest gay clubs (I forget the period appropriate term), then there's Harlem. The past isn't as Conservative as we think it is.
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Post by eselle28 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:16 pm

[quote="nearly_takuan"][quote="kath"]
nearly_takuan wrote:
I choose words that reflect my experiences, and my experiences inform my beliefs, and my beliefs include biases, so yes.

My locale lacks much of a meeting place for math-enthusiasts, and most of my other interests tend to have far more men involved in them than women. Generously estimating that a third of the people in attendance at a given gathering are women, that a twentieth of them are open to asexual lifestyles (I feel like I'm harping on this sometimes but it is an issue), that a tenth of those aren't already in relationships—aren't I just combing a haystack for a brand of needle that may not exist?

How to Cold Approach Without Being Creepy/Harassing - Page 2 Tumblr_lz7krqdQ2O1r7cysao1_500

Shut up, Han.

It's considerably harder to find a partner when you need them to be on board with a lifestyle that the average person in your community isn't interested in. I completely believe you that asexuality is a significant issue, and I don't think you're harping at all. That being said, it doesn't mean you don't get to have preferences, and the odds also aren't a particular endorsement of the sort of cold approaches singled out here as being less acceptable.

If you don't run into many women you'd be interested in at your favorite activities, you probably do need to seek out partners more deliberately. There's nothing wrong with that. There are ways of doing so that don't involve traditional cold approaches (OkCupid, as frustrating as that is in your community/various networking sites for people who are asexual/seeking out social activities not tied to your current interests), and there are ways of cold approaching that don't ethically trouble anyone and aren't at risk of being confused with street harassment. This is my own experience as someone who's childfree, which is an uncommon preference in my community, but I've found that I'm most likely to find men who fit that definition through online dating, far less likely to find it if I approach men in bars, and would likely be the least likely to find it if I approached men as they walked to work.
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Post by nearly_takuan on Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:54 pm

Well, that's just it—cold approaching seems to be right out, and for many good reasons, but I don't really see how the alternatives are that much better.

I guess the perceived "benefit" of cold-approaching people at random is that I don't start off looking for signs that it'll never work out, or thinking about preferences—which I'm still not convinced I do get to have, given that a willingness to put up with those immutable elements of my identity is already a pretty harsh filter. I could easily be wrong about any number of other things I think I'm looking for, so taking a chance with a total stranger > reading someone's public profile and concluding that yep, they definitely prefer sexually experienced people, and letting that color the way I deal with them.
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Post by eselle28 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:28 pm

nearly_takuan wrote:Well, that's just it—cold approaching seems to be right out, and for many good reasons, but I don't really see how the alternatives are that much better.

I guess the perceived "benefit" of cold-approaching people at random is that I don't start off looking for signs that it'll never work out, or thinking about preferences—which I'm still not convinced I do get to have, given that a willingness to put up with those immutable elements of my identity is already a pretty harsh filter. I could easily be wrong about any number of other things I think I'm looking for, so taking a chance with a total stranger > reading someone's public profile and concluding that yep, they definitely prefer sexually experienced people, and letting that color the way I deal with them.

Ah, that makes sense. I find filters to be helpful because I have a pretty clear idea what my dealbreakers are, but I can see how they would be more difficult if you're coming at this from a perspective of, "I'm looking for someone who's okay with me, and I'm only making guesses at what that person might be like."
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Post by eselle28 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:39 pm

Gentleman Johnny wrote:
Don't you just dig that Steve would be a huge supporter of unions? Smile

Another point that they make in the blog is don't forget that he's not even 30. Yeah, ok, he was born in the 20s but hes not some "get of my lawn" grand dad, he's a guy in the prime of his life. I really loved all of this because it takes him from being a kind of flat Superman type boy scout to one with a lot of depth and nuance. Its also pointed out in one of hte posts that he grew up six blocks from one of Ne York's largest gay clubs (I forget the period appropriate term), then there's Harlem. The past isn't as Conservative as we think it is.

It's an interesting site. Captain America's been one of those characters who's slowly grown on me from the first movie where I found him hard to identify with to the second where I really enjoyed him, and thinking about him as this specific person who has arty inclinations and grew up in a rough neighborhood in Brooklyn and was probably exposed to a lot of different kinds of people makes me find him even more interesting. I like this idea of him as someone who's not at all sheltered.

Also, I didn't realize it until I found that post about his neighborhood that it's sort of weird to me that Marvel characters mostly seem to live in real places like Brooklyn and Queens and can be given addresses and presumed social experiences from childhood, while DC characters mostly seem to live in fictional places that just evoke certain cities and don't fit as well with those associations.
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Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:16 pm

Mel wrote:
Well, I wasn't suggesting you should go to school/work, interest groups, social gatherings, etc. solely to find someone to have sex with.  It's about getting to know people in general, and maybe one of those people will end up being a woman you find attractive, or be someone who invites you to do something else where you meet a woman you find attractive, and you can then get to know that woman a little better and get a sense of whether she's open to dating and enjoying your company before pursuing her romantically.

All right, but how do I figure if she's open to dating without her thinking I'm suggesting that she should date me? Because I believe that if I asked those kinds of questions she'd suspect me of wanting to get in her pants or something even if I didn't want to.

Mel wrote:
Why do you find OLD just as terrifying as cold approaching?  The benefits with OLD are that you know that every woman on there is in fact looking for a guy to date and wants guys to message her, and if you don't happen to appeal to her it's usually as simple as not getting a response.

I find OLD just as scary because you could have crafted a message as though it were written by Hemingway himself with the wit and humor of Oscar Wilde... and still get diddly. I sent a message out once, I had to get a decent buzz to grow enough balls to do it. The message I sent was completely relevant to her profile, very friendly, nothing dirty or sexual in the message, nothing nasty. I expected either silence or a monosyllabic response, instead I got a block.

So I disabled my profile for a second time after that (and it's still disabled to this day).

Mel wrote:
I would think that should reduce a lot of the anxiety, given that the biggest issues with cold approaches are a) the high possibility of bothering someone who isn't available and/or interested in considering dating options at this moment, and b) having to face that high chance of rejection face to face.

See, that's what I thought too, but I was wrong.

I had the idea in mind that these women were also OLD for the same reason I was. But then I also realized that these are women on the internet and that they probably get a shit-ton of messages on an hourly basis. So, I figured I'd just be pissing in the wind and in the unlikely scenario that she'd respond, I'd get slapped with silence (or a block).

I would also like to avoid being on one of those hilarious Creepers of OKC tumblrs or whatever.

Mel wrote:
If you're too anxious to even work yourself up to writing a message to a woman you know wants to hear from guys, then I don't think you should be worrying about in person cold approaches right now, I think you should be working on reducing your anxiety in general.  What's you're talking about here sounds kind of like trying to figure out how to run a marathon when you have a sprained ankle that's preventing you from even walking around the block.

Well, I don't know if they really want to hear from guys, I've run across plenty of profiles that aren't looking for relationships and still get matched with me. I also have no idea how to reduce that anxiety, I can talk to women just fine, I work with three where I intern and do have female friends. Although there is one girl who when I see her I turn into an awkward idiot/mess, it's rather embarrassing.

Soo... wut do?

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Post by Jayce on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:11 pm

I like to think about it this way. It is totally ok to meet someone and have an agenda as well as goals. However you are meeting someone you don't know. It is a bit weird to be certain that you already want to take her out on a date. What if there's a deal breaker? You don't even know her or what's she like. There are many times where I feel I totally want to go on a date with her before even meeting them because she's pretty and the halo effect makes me assume she must be awesome. But I realized, hey I don't even know what this woman is like, I can't just assume that I'll want to take her on a date already. Got to get to know more about her first.

Much better to approach with the idea of wanting to get to know this person to search for compatibility, and if you feel compatible after getting to know them then ask for a date.

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Post by kath on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:55 am

nearly_takuan wrote:
kath wrote:
nearly_takuan wrote:
I guess you're supposed to know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who isn't repulsed by the idea of you wanting to have dinner with them (and vice versa, of course, but after a point one gets the feeling that one has no right to any criteria at all).

The only thing about "know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who isn't repulsed by the idea of you wanting to have dinner with them ... " that implies "you have no right to standards" is using the words "isn't repulsed" instead of "wants to". That's a bias introduced by your word choice.

I choose words that reflect my experiences, and my experiences inform my beliefs, and my beliefs include biases, so yes.

Yeah, but you were speaking in a general context. Not about you particular, unique reasons that you are more comfortable with cold approaching. It was "in general, the way anyone asking people out works is, you're hoping you happen upon someone who doesn't hate you and one gets to feeling like one shouldn't have standards," and that not having luck because your particular standards might exclude a large percentage of the population for totally valid reasons means that your reasons are wrong, or that whether you're cold approaching or warm-approaching impact how many of those people (whom you could approach either cold or warm) would be up for an asexual relationship. Really, cold approaching and hoping one of the people you happen to cold approach happens to be open to an asexual lifestyle seems like it would also lead to sufficient negative answers that "but after a point, one gets the feeling that one has no right to any criteria at all" would also apply. You like it not because your changes are better, but because you are more comfortable not already having assumed someone is only open to sexual relationships, which you do with people you meet through your social network.

I can see why you personally would prefer cold approaches given that you've explained why you do.  That reason is very specific to you, and how you feel about dating, and not really relevant to general approaches to cold approaching or dating for people in general. S if you are saying "I personally would rather ask and then find out that someone isn't down with the lifestyle I offer than have some idea that she's probably not interested in that lifestyle beforehand, thus my preference for cold approaches", say that, not something that doesn't actually explain what it is about cold approaching that makes it more comfortable for you. Then people who do feel that way (or want to find out) can try it. There are probably lots of asexual people who would rather have some idea if the person they are approaching is likely to be more on board with their lifestyle - like on online dating sites that might indicate so, or because that asexual person met a potential romantic partner through friends who know they are asexual and are specifically seeking out other asexuals to introduce - that person would probably have a very different experience than you do.

When we suggest focusing on warm approaches, we are speaking generally. They do work better than cold ones, speaking generally. You are by no means required to do any warm approaches, and are free to tell us you don't like warm approaches because of this particular issue (or you can just say you have personal reasons for being totally not open to them, if you are asking for advice and don't want "try warm approach" advice). But talking about how warm approaches don't work as a generalizable experience just  ... isn't actually generalizable.

Actually I really think that you just don't have great alternatives. There are lots of people dealing with very, very small dating pools for a variety of reasons. Both cold approaching and warm approaching are going to be difficult and involve a ton of "eh, not for me"s to get to a "yeah I'm in" just because of that particular taste that isn't common, complicated by the fact that asexuality isn't as well-understood culturally as a lot of other criteria that restrict dating pools. That sucks. It has nothing in particular to do with the general effectiveness of cold approaching versus warm approaching for someone who might read this thread. It is a totally different conversation.

(And I may not have said this clearly. Your preference, "taking a chance with a total stranger > reading someone's public profile and concluding that yep, they definitely prefer sexually experienced people, and letting that color the way I deal with them" is a totally valid benefit and reason to decide that cold approaching is a good ideas for you, and with that context of why you prefer it, makes a lot of sense to suggest to others too. But that context is pretty key.)


The Mikey wrote:
All right, but how do I figure if she's open to dating without her thinking I'm suggesting that she should date me? Because I believe that if I asked those kinds of questions she'd suspect me of wanting to get in her pants or something even if I didn't want to.
Why do you want to find out if she's open to dating if you don't want to follow it up by asking if she'd like to date you? Normally you would skip right to "would you like to go on a date with me? I think that would be great because you are rad!" unless you want to set her up with someone else. You might happen to find out someone is not open to dating for various reasons because it comes up in conversation, but you wouldn't ask if they're looking to date right now. Unless they volunteer the info, whether they're open to dating in general isn't any of your business.


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Post by P_johnston on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:00 am

I'll pitch in my two cents with something that I actually remember learning from the Tao of Badass (one of the pick up artist styles). The part that really stuck with me pretty much boiled down to "want to know how to approach and talk to women. Learn how to approach and talk to people." The suggestion in it being that in order to get better at cold approaching women it helps if you just try to force yourself to be more sociable and cold approach everyone, male or female, young or old. If you already talk to everyone what is one more person even if they are cute and of the opposite gender?

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Post by reboot on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:10 am

P_johnston wrote:I'll pitch in my two cents with something that I actually remember learning from the Tao of Badass (one of the pick up artist styles). The part that really stuck with me pretty much boiled down to "want to know how to approach and talk to women. Learn how to approach and talk to people." The suggestion in it being that in order to get better at cold approaching women it helps if you just try to force yourself to be more sociable and cold approach everyone, male or female, young or old. If you already talk to everyone what is one more person even if they are cute and of the opposite gender?

That jibes with my experience. If you are capable of striking up a conversation with just about anyone, you are more likely to be good at cold approach because:
1. You always talk to strangers. An attractive one is no different
2. You are used to people not wanting to interact, so rejection is no big
3. Seems inherently obvious, but, people that are sociable meet more people.
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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:35 am

kath wrote:
Why do you want to find out if she's open to dating if you don't want to follow it up by asking if she'd like to date you? Normally you would skip right to "would you like to go on a date with me? I think that would be great because you are rad!" unless you want to set her up with someone else. You might happen to find out someone is not open to dating for various reasons because it comes up in conversation, but you wouldn't ask if they're looking to date right now. Unless they volunteer the info, whether they're open to dating in general isn't any of your business.

Because I'm not that smart nor am I ballsy enough to ask in the first place. But moreso not that smart. So now I just gone and confused myself with my own stupidity. -facepalm-

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Post by nearly_takuan on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:48 am

Right, kath. Sorry; my initial statements here were short-sighted.

Well, here's a more general thing, then: it can also feel like the "warm approach" pool is finite/limited in a way that talking to people you'll probably never see again is not. Which is to say, you warm-approach everyone you can think of, they've all said "no" (which is, of course*, a permanent position once it's established), and then there's nobody left. Plus imaginary-you has hypothetical-alienated-or-creeped-out everyone just by asking.

I know it doesn't make any sense; it's just a sentiment that I happen to know isn't exclusive to my circumstances. Razz (And aside from the logical explanations that so far have not made me stop feeling that way, I don't know how I would advise a person on confronting said beliefs.)

*not
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Post by kath on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:57 am

The Mikey wrote:
Because I'm not that smart nor am I ballsy enough to ask in the first place. But moreso not that smart. So now I just gone and confused myself with my own stupidity. -facepalm-

Well the good news is, finding a way to ask "are you open to dating in general" if what you really want to know is "are you open to dating me", in a way that's socially acceptable and doesn't come off as weird or cagey, would be way more difficult than finding a socially acceptable way to ask "would you like to date me" that doesn't come off as weird or cagey. Smile

nearly_takuan wrote:Well, here's a more general thing, then: it can also feel like the "warm approach" pool is finite/limited in a way that talking to people you'll probably never see again is not. Which is to say, you warm-approach everyone you can think of, they've all said "no" (which is, of course*, a permanent position once it's established), and then there's nobody left.

I agree, this is a much more generalize-able statement.

nearly_takuan wrote:
Plus imaginary-you has hypothetical-alienated-or-creeped-out everyone just by asking.

This is not a generalize-able statement. There are ways to ask people out that are respectful and not inherently creepy. Sure, there may be a few people who you ask out in a totally respectful and reasonable way that, for their own reasons, never want to talk to you again. That's their thing, not yours. And it's not "everyone", and if you're being respectful it's probably not likely to remove all the women from your social circle. That's your fear, not something that will happen to imaginary-you.

Do you see the difference between those two statements? If not, would you like me to clarify ...? Trying to be helpful, not condescending, and sorry if you were being hyperbolic with that last sentence. Internet Sad.


nearly_takuan wrote:
I know it doesn't make any sense; it's just a sentiment that I happen to know isn't exclusive to my circumstances. Razz (And aside from the logical explanations that so far have not made me stop feeling that way, I don't know how I would advise a person on confronting said beliefs.)

It makes sense as a sentiment to have and a way for you and people who also feel that way to approach dating. I wouldn't expect it to be exclusive to your circumstances. I'm sure there's lots of people who feel that way - even people who aren't dealing with a limited dating pool might prefer to only cold approach to avoid having to navigate the awkwardness of trying to maintain loose social connections with someone who's turned you down for a date. Having to take that plunge and deal with that social awkwardness might also be a useful thing for that hypothetical person to confront too. It's up to them to decide if they want to, they certainly don't have to.

But that's about how that hypothetical person feels about dating and cold approaching, not what is statistically more likely to work or the approach that is most likely to work for advice-requester-we-don't-know-much-about or random forum reader. So that's why when you suggest that approach, it's a good idea to make sure you aren't making generalizations that don't make sense, and to express things that are actually fears (such as "everyone I ask out who turns me down will shun me") as fears rather than Truths of the Human Condition.

I'm also very socially risk-averse in specific circumstances - it's why I don]t cold-approach strangers for random conversation. I'm scared they'll say something mean to me and upset me. But I know that's my fear controlling my behavior, and I get to decide how much risk of feeling awkward is worth the potential positive interactions with strangers.
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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:40 am

kath wrote:
Well the good news is, finding a way to ask "are you open to dating in general" if what you really want to know is "are you open to dating me", in a way that's socially acceptable and doesn't come off as weird or cagey, would be way more difficult than finding a socially acceptable way to ask "would you like to date me" that doesn't come off as weird or cagey. Smile

After reading your post a few times are you saying you saying it's just easier to plainly ask them out? I dunno, I think asking "would you like to date me" sounds kinda odd too. :\  I'm sorry if I'm being difficult, it's just that I can't figure out what's more appropriate, the more I think about it, the more it becomes another brick in the wall.

EDIT: Aah I am teh dumb.


Last edited by The Mikey on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:46 am; edited 3 times in total

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Post by eselle28 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:43 am

The Mikey wrote:
kath wrote:
Well the good news is, finding a way to ask "are you open to dating in general" if what you really want to know is "are you open to dating me", in a way that's socially acceptable and doesn't come off as weird or cagey, would be way more difficult than finding a socially acceptable way to ask "would you like to date me" that doesn't come off as weird or cagey. Smile

After reading your post a few times are you saying you saying it's just easier to plainly ask them out? I dunno, I think asking "would you like to date me" sounds kinda odd too. :\ I'm sorry if I'm being difficult, it's just that I can't figure out what's more appropriate, the more I think about it, the more it becomes another brick in the wall.

I interpreted that as just asking someone out.
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Post by kath on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:46 am

Yeah sorry, I meant just asking them out plainly, I wasn't trying to suggest specific wording.

Can anyone else suggest some specific wording that's pretty general but could actually be used? Mikey, could you give us some general info about the hypothetical person?

DNL has lots of suggestions on the blog, but the social appropriateness will be really tied to the contexts in which you'd want to approach.
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