How common is it for a man to love romance more than sex?

[Andrew Corvero]

Society (at least in Italy) often tells you, or implies, that men are horndogs always and mostly interested in sex, and have little to no use for romance except for getting sex (I'm exaggerating, of course, but this is the vibe I get).

However, while I love everything about sex if it's good, I've realized that what I love much more than sex is romance in all its aspects: flirting, messaging, going out on dates, having dinner together, dancing together, doing little romantic and affectionate gestures, playing around and playfully teasing, going ice-skating together (I freaking love ice-skating in general), doing weird or stupid things together, lying on a roof and saying stupid stuff while you stare at the clouds, kissing, cooking together, going to a karaoke bar and singing together badly, watching a stupid movie together (and making fun of it), cuddling, holding hands, having long romantic, meaningful or playful conversations, going together to a museum or sightseeing, coming up with charming compliments, watching the sunset together on a boat, making each other laugh or simply being with someone I like and who likes me and doing stuff we like or we've never done and want to try.

In other words, I love the romantic part of a relationship. I've tried an one night stand once but I think they're not for me: I ended up crushing on the person I had sex with and I really wanted to see them much more (she wanted to keep it non-emotional). I'd actually prefer waiting a long time (even years) before I have sex with someone I'm in a relationship with but doing a lot of romantic stuff together to having sex soon but not doing anything romantic.

I think this is far more common that the media and society would have us believe, and that many other men actually love the romantic part of a relationship just as much as sex if not more (like me). Am I right?

[eselle28]

I can't speak to how common it is, since I'm working with information from men I've dated and my male friends, who aren't exactly an unbiased sample. However, I think men with your attitude are probably more common than people think, both because there are some pressures for men to overstate their sexual appetites and because there are others encouraging guys not to think about or express romantic longings. I've certainly met a couple of guys who I suspect are close to your viewpoint on terms of prioritization, though I'm not sure if some of the ones I ran into when they and I  were younger were very self-aware about what mattered more to them.

[reboot]

I agree. I think men are taught not to publicly admit to valuing romance as much or more than sex, but I think they do value it as much as women and at approximately the same frequency.

EDIT: Like eselle, I am basing this on self reports by male friends and family

[jcorozza]

Thirding. Again, small sample, but it's true for all of the guys I dated (though they might not have used the word "romance" - maybe companionship/intimacy?). And many of the guys I'm friends with.

[PintsizeBro]

Not necessarily romance per se, but a connection with the other person is a big part of why I like sex, actually. Without a connection, sex kinda feels like glorified masturbation, and I'm better at getting myself off than someone I barely know.

[LadyLuck]

I think reboot has it right but not just because men like romance more then advertised. Women probably don't like romance as much as the media portrays either, or at least they don't prioritize it waaaaaay above sex all the time. There's plenty of forum members here that will line up to tell you they (and other women they know) are A-OK with one-night stands provided the dude in question meets some basic qualifiers/standards (gives pants-feels, no creepy serial killer vibes, isn't indecently selfish in bed, plus maybe some personal preferences).

[reboot]

I think reboot has it right but not just because men like romance more then advertised. Women probably don't like romance as much as the media portrays either, or at least they don't prioritize it waaaaaay above sex all the time. There's plenty of forum members here that will line up to tell you they (and other women they know) are A-OK with one-night stands provided the dude in question meets some basic qualifiers/standards (gives pants-feels, no creepy serial killer vibes, isn't indecently selfish in bed, plus maybe some personal preferences).

True that and glad you mentioned it. I think man and women are more similar on this than our culture leads us to believe.

[Andrew Corvero]

I think reboot has it right but not just because men like romance more then advertised. Women probably don't like romance as much as the media portrays either, or at least they don't prioritize it waaaaaay above sex all the time. There's plenty of forum members here that will line up to tell you they (and other women they know) are A-OK with one-night stands provided the dude in question meets some basic qualifiers/standards (gives pants-feels, no creepy serial killer vibes, isn't indecently selfish in bed, plus maybe some personal preferences).

True that and glad you mentioned it. I think man and women are more similar on this than our culture leads us to believe.

Exactly. Cultural stereotypes are unrealistic.

[PintsizeBro]

There's also this idea that romance is how a man gets a woman to like him. Not so. Giving flowers to someone you're already in a relationship with is sweet. Giving flowers to someone you don't even know in the hopes that she will go out with you is creepy.

[Andrew Corvero]

There's also this idea that romance is how a man gets a woman to like him. Not so. Giving flowers to someone you're already in a relationship with is sweet. Giving flowers to someone you don't even know in the hopes that she will go out with you is creepy.

Yeah, everything has its right time and space. There are some aspects of flirting (light banter, jokes, conversation) there are fine even when you have to get to know each other better, then if everything goes well you come move onto dates where there are other rules and some things are best left to relationships.

It's all a matter of boundaries. Flower at a first date are creepy because socially romantic gifts imply that there's already a relationship going on. So if you come across as too forward the message you're sending isn't "I want to meet you and see what happens" but "Get in a relationship with me NOW!"

It's all a matter of finding the right balance and the right time. And sometimes even when you're not incredibly socially awkward you can still screw up Flowers at a first date is a very clueless mistake bordering on creepy, but some finer points are more subjective or cultural.

For example in Italy friends, acquaintances or even friendly strangers in bars can offer each other a coffee or simply chat over coffee, so inviting people to a coffee date (especially soon after lunchtime) isn't considered a big deal even if you don't know each other very well.

It's also a matter of space. A public place in the middle of the day where people go to relax (like a bar) is considered relatively safe.

On the other hand asking for someone to dinner is considered a very forward move, especially if it's a fancy restaurant. Inviting someone to the cinema is even more forward, because (unless you're close friends) there's a cultural implication that a man doesn't go to cinema together with a woman just to see the movie, so if you invite someone to the cinema for your first date it comes across as quite creepy.

I was actually surprised when I was living in the UK and a woman I barely knew invited me to see a movie in a completely friendly and not flirty context, but I understood it was just a matter a cultural differences.

[reboundstudent]

Interestingly, I've always thought that men liked romance more than women. I think every single self-identified "romantic" I've met in real life has been male. I've met women who enjoy rom-coms or getting flowers and such things, but it's usually alongside self-effacing comments about how they really are a feminist, or they're not one of those "dumb girlie girls." At least in my social circles, somewhere along the line "likes romance" + "female" became "= not intelligent."

Whereas the guys who identify as liking romance or being romantics do so almost un-ironically. They love to write/read poetry, and imagine picnics looking at cloud shapes or lighting ten thousand candles in their bedrooms. I've observed some... problematic elements of male romantics, but it does seem to be a genuine interest in love and affection either alongside or even lesser than an interest in sex.

[litterature]

Interestingly, I've always thought that men liked romance more than women. I think every single self-identified "romantic" I've met in real life has been male. I've met women who enjoy rom-coms or getting flowers and such things, but it's usually alongside self-effacing comments about how they really are a feminist, or they're not one of those "dumb girlie girls." At least in my social circles, somewhere along the line "likes romance" + "female" became "= not intelligent."

Whereas the guys who identify as liking romance or being romantics do so almost un-ironically. They love to write/read poetry, and imagine picnics looking at cloud shapes or lighting ten thousand candles in their bedrooms. I've observed some... problematic elements of male romantics, but it does seem to be a genuine interest in love and affection either alongside or even lesser than an interest in sex.

Yeah. I don't know about romance per se (for one, I don't think romance and sex are that easy to tell apart), but "being a romantic" is a very male thing I reckon.

[Guest]

There's also this idea that romance is how a man gets a woman to like him. Not so. Giving flowers to someone you're already in a relationship with is sweet. Giving flowers to someone you don't even know in the hopes that she will go out with you is creepy.

It's not?

On the other hand asking for someone to dinner is considered a very forward move, especially if it's a fancy restaurant. Inviting someone to the cinema is even more forward, because (unless you're close friends) there's a cultural implication that a man doesn't go to cinema together with a woman just to see the movie, so if you invite someone to the cinema for your first date it comes across as quite creepy.

I was actually surprised when I was living in the UK and a woman I barely knew invited me to see a movie in a completely friendly and not flirty context, but I understood it was just a matter a cultural differences.

What if you go to the cinema by yourself like I do? What does that say about me?

And it appears as though with some fellows here there's a lot cultural misunderstandings.

Whereas the guys who identify as liking romance or being romantics do so almost un-ironically. They love to write/read poetry, and imagine picnics looking at cloud shapes or lighting ten thousand candles in their bedrooms. I've observed some... problematic elements of male romantics, but it does seem to be a genuine interest in love and affection either alongside or even lesser than an interest in sex.

I always considered myself somewhat romantic, but I loathe poetry. Although the picnics and candles sounds dope. But what would those problematic elements of male romantics be?

[eselle28]

Interestingly, I've always thought that men liked romance more than women. I think every single self-identified "romantic" I've met in real life has been male. I've met women who enjoy rom-coms or getting flowers and such things, but it's usually alongside self-effacing comments about how they really are a feminist, or they're not one of those "dumb girlie girls." At least in my social circles, somewhere along the line "likes romance" + "female" became "= not intelligent."

I think that there is an extent to which this varies by social group. Feminist women, geeky women, and intellectual women get a lot of messages that romantic media content is uncool and of poor quality and that enjoying poetry and flowers and grand romantic gestures are associated with various forms of sexism and should be avoided by women who want equality. Women who do the Cool Girl thing are I think just responding to the idea that men dislike these things. However, I do know some other kinds of women (including some who are more traditional) who are a lot more comfortable with openly liking these things.

Whereas the guys who identify as liking romance or being romantics do so almost un-ironically. They love to write/read poetry, and imagine picnics looking at cloud shapes or lighting ten thousand candles in their bedrooms. I've observed some... problematic elements of male romantics, but it does seem to be a genuine interest in love and affection either alongside or even lesser than an interest in sex.

You know, I wonder if this might be the disconnect between some women and romance. The straight-coded image of being "romantic" tends to involve either a man doing romantic things for a woman and her appreciating those acts or a person of either gender consuming media. I wonder if some women feel alienated from romance because women who want to please their partners are generally given advice more along the lines of cooking a special meal, buying tickets to a sporting event, or engaging in rougher or kinkier sex that men are stereotyped as preferring. Basically, they can either receive romance or show they appreciate their partners in ways that may not be considered romantic, but don't feel like it would be appropriate to send flowers or light candles or write poetry.

[eselle28]

I always considered myself somewhat romantic, but I loathe poetry. Although the picnics and candles sounds dope. But what would those problematic elements of male romantics be?

Some male romantics tend to take "I enjoy doing romantic things" with "Women will appreciate it if I do romantic things" or "My partner will appreciate it if I do romantic things." For single romantics, this can lead to awkward gestures and to anger or entitlement if a woman doesn't respond negatively to a romantic gesture. For men in relationships, this can sometimes lead to relying on romantic gestures at the expense of a partner's needs. Arranging an evening of dancing under the moonlight is a less than wonderful idea if your girlfriend doesn't know how to dance and has to get up at 5:00 AM the next morning, and buying a dozen roses and attaching a hand-written love poem isn't necessarily going to compensate for infidelity or forgetting to pay the electricity bill for three months (if that last one sounds tellingly specific, it's because it is, and the roses didn't make me a bit less angry about coming home to an apartment with no power on a night when I had planned to and needed to work from home).

There are some problematic things with female romantics too. Holding out for a perfect Prince Charming who never makes mistakes would be one issue, and being overly and unkindly demanding of a partner would be another.

[Gman]

I wonder if some women feel alienated from romance because women who want to please their partners are generally given advice more along the lines of cooking a special meal, buying tickets to a sporting event, or engaging in rougher or kinkier sex that men are stereotyped as preferring.

Wow this was kind of scary to read - as I realize these are almost identical things my ex did with me when we were together. She cooked me breakfast once, she bought me tickets for a concert on my birthday and about that third point - I was pretty much clueless about sex and such back then, but thinking about it now - let's just say she did get a bit creative there (but nothing too crazy).
Though I don't think she is an "alienated from romance" kind of person and I don't think that these actions came from that kind of point of view.

[Guest]

Some male romantics tend to take "I enjoy doing romantic things" with "Women will appreciate it if I do romantic things" or "My partner will appreciate it if I do romantic things." For single romantics, this can lead to awkward gestures and to anger or entitlement if a woman doesn't respond negatively to a romantic gesture.

Don't you mean positively? As a single romantic man, well, I don't really do much since it'd be silly of me to even do so.

For men in relationships, this can sometimes lead to relying on romantic gestures at the expense of a partner's needs. Arranging an evening of dancing under the moonlight is a less than wonderful idea if your girlfriend doesn't know how to dance and has to get up at 5:00 AM the next morning, and buying a dozen roses and attaching a hand-written love poem isn't necessarily going to compensate for infidelity or forgetting to pay the electricity bill for three months (if that last one sounds tellingly specific, it's because it is, and the roses didn't make me a bit less angry about coming home to an apartment with no power on a night when I had planned to and needed to work from home).

There are some problematic things with female romantics too. Holding out for a perfect Prince Charming who never makes mistakes would be one issue, and being overly and unkindly demanding of a partner would be another.

Jeez. It sounds as though dudes shouldn't even bother or remotely try being "romantic" at all. I mean, that's pretty disheartening. I can understand being pissed at the fact that the electric bill wasn't paid, man or woman, you need that electricity if you need to work.

[eselle28]

Yes, I meant positively! My brain cut out for a minute.

I wouldn't say that men shouldn't be romantic. They should be romantic if they want to and in ways the woman in question will appreciate. Like many things, it's nice in moderation and can be unfortunate in excess.

[Guest]

Yes, I meant positively! My brain cut out for a minute.

I wouldn't say that men shouldn't be romantic. They should be romantic if they want to and in ways the woman in question will appreciate. Like many things, it's nice in moderation and can be unfortunate in excess.

Might be the beer talking for me here... but you mean for dudes to exercise common sense while being "romantic", correeeect? It's just that I get terriburr messages about being a romantic and being a dude.

(I was trying to to think Of a witty remark to call myself as, but I wasn't fast enough. )

[Andrew Corvero]

Yes, I meant positively! My brain cut out for a minute.

I wouldn't say that men shouldn't be romantic. They should be romantic if they want to and in ways the woman in question will appreciate. Like many things, it's nice in moderation and can be unfortunate in excess.

I agree. The trick is to listen to your SO's needs and wants. Also, as you said, there's a time and a place for everything. A special romantic event that works is much, much better than many romantic things that can become annoying.

It's a matter of balance.

buying a dozen roses and attaching a hand-written love poem isn't necessarily going to compensate for infidelity or forgetting to pay the electricity bill for three months

I wouldn't describe this as being romantic as much as trying to excuse bad behavior. If you have done something wrong it's better to admit your faults and face responsibility for your consequences of your actions (including the reaction of your SO) than try to wiggle out of them through romance.

[Andrew Corvero]

buying a dozen roses and attaching a hand-written love poem isn't necessarily going to compensate for infidelity or forgetting to pay the electricity bill for three months

Expanding on that: the basic message behind romance is "care about you", but if it's attached to bad behavior the message becomes "I care about BUT not enough not to cheat on you" or "I care about you BUT not enough to pay the bills".

So of course the "I care about you" part rings hollow and looks manipulative, not romantic.

[jcorozza]

I think, also, that everyone has their own idea of romance. There's an OKC question about which romantic gesture you'd prefer (I forget if it's to give or to receive), with options of a gift/flowers, a physical gesture (like a massage), kind words, or...I forget the fourth one, but it's a separate type. Personally, gifts tend to make me the most uncomfortable. Something small and thoughtful is really nice - like, with my last boyfriend, on our first date, we stopped at Wegmans and picked up a bunch of jelly beans, with mine all being juicy pear, so a few weeks later, he brought me some juicy pear jelly beans - but something more generic, like the typical chocolate/flowers combo (unless maybe it's a specific flower that I mentioned really liking) just seems...lazy? And then I'm in that weird position where I know I'm supposed to appreciate the romantic gesture but at the same time I feel like he put in no effort, which makes me disappointed. So in general, I err towards the other forms of romantic gestures, and try to keep things specific and personal and generally avoid the things society has told me we're supposed to find romantic.

[Andrew Corvero]

I think, also, that everyone has their own idea of romance.

Yep! I think it's again because romance shows that you care about a specific person, so you know what they like and want. Something that's "generically romantic" shows that you don't care enough to get to know your SO as a person and not a social stereotype. It shows that you see your SO as generic and banal. It's lazy.

That's not to say that no one likes flowers and chocolate. Some people do, and find them romantic. But not everybody does.

So in general, I err towards the other forms of romantic gestures, and try to keep things specific and personal and generally avoid the things society has told me we're supposed to find romantic.

Absolutely. Nothing kills romance like something that tells you "You're just a generic person to me".

Listening and knowing your SO, and caring about them, is the key to romance.