The fear of "Too Late"

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:06 pm

That's mostly the previous list all ready.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:02 am

OK so that is the target and we can work from there.

While I was out walking the dog something came to me. I have a friend who is essentially a hermit (since her parents died I think I am the only person she talks to and that is maybe 3-4 times a year) but she has been doing these work from home, repetitive tasks that computers eventually can do but are not quite there yet. I do not know how she finds them (especially in pre-internet days), but she has been doing it since she dropped out of high school. I do not know what she makes, but it is enough to keep her parents place in relative repair, feed herself, keep utilities on, a modest entertainment budget, etc.. I can hit her up and find out where to find such gigs. It is never the same thing so experience does not matter. She does not talk to people and has terrible social skills (I am not sure she even socializes online), so no worries for you there. It might take a while though because she does not respond to messages promptly, but I might be able to send some links.

EDIT: This would not be a forever thing, necessarily, but just to get some money in the pocket since that opens up more options.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:26 am

Couldn't hurt I guess.

That sounds kind of like that "do small tasks for [x] cents per [x]" or whatever it is thing.

[Or maybe a cam-girl or something like that, there's less of a market for me that way :p]
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:29 am

Definitely not a cam girl. She is hyper modest and fears the male gaze hardcore due to the bullying in elementary-HS.

I helped her last time I was there. Some university scanned old archive photos of soil samples with handwritten notes. We made tags for what the notes said and looked up GPS points for the locations. Pretty mindless, but oddly entertaining for a few hours.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:24 am

So I'm in a clearer mood right now let's call it, I re-took the career test and avoided using the extreme options on either end because I noticed the test will completely eliminate or shove to the top the extreme options.

My top 5 (of 40)

1. Computer Network Specialist/IT Person
2. Database Developer
3. Researcher
4. Political Aide
5. Web Developer
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:08 pm

Those sound pretty reasonable, except for political aide, which I'm guessing there's not much call for in your area. What are your thoughts on them?

ETA: I think these kinds of tests are good for giving you ideas what to look at, but don't get too hung up on them as a One True Answer. They're usually pretty loose and general, and often only cover a small range of careers, so what they tell you is only going to be one jumping-off point out of several. If the answers it gave you turn out not to be good options for you or if things you would otherwise consider likely options don't make it into your test results, don't let that discourage you too much. This is not a situation where someone or something else will hand you down a decision from on high. Career counselors, personality tests, advice from internet strangers, they're all just tools to help you figure it out.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:06 pm

I agree with enail, do not get too fixated on the tests, they are hints, not answers.

What I am seeing with your results, including political aide (which is basically a researcher/problem solver), is a slant towards building/maintaining systems and managing/processing information, which are fairly flexible and valuable skills for jobs. You might want to try out some online coding courses from Code Academy, Code.org or Khan Academy to see if programming is something you might enjoy. All the courses are free.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:35 pm

I don't really have the decision-making prowess for this kind of thing, though. When I start weighing this vs that, I always end up looking at the worst case or the options and can't make a decision either way.

I did do some coding in high school, I sort of get what it's about. I've always heard coding jobs were something you need to be interested in your off-time to be successful at it, though.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:44 pm

Nah, that is not true. Plenty of people only code for work, not as a hobby. It is more like reading than anything else. Some people read for fun and some people only read when they are required to by work or school. For example, I code in R and SUDAAN to analyze survey data, but there is no way I would do it outside of work, but I know others that are super into it and code in their free time
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:53 pm

I could probably look into it, then.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:56 pm

bomaye wrote:I don't really have the decision-making prowess for this kind of thing, though. When I start weighing this vs that, I always end up looking at the worst case or the options and can't make a decision either way.

Take it a little bit at a time, don't leap to trying to make a decision or trying to get some outside source to hand you a decision. You're going to gather information about the possibilities and about what you need/want/are good at/want to avoid etc. Then you can start evaluating the career possibilities based on your personal criteria, just seeing how well they match in a fairly basic way, and gradually start narrowing down and focusing on some options. Then you'll maybe do more research on those options so that you have a good sense of what things could actually be like on the day to day. Then you'll be in a better position to compare pros and cons and factor in best- and worst-case scenarios.

Try to keep an open mind about your abilities instead of starting from the assumption you can't do this. This particular instance of decision-making is not going to be the same as previous experiences of decision making. You can use your knowledge of problems you've run into with making decisions in the past, to compensate for tendencies that make it harder and to look for resources to help you with the parts that give you trouble.


I did do some coding in high school, I sort of get what it's about. I've always heard coding jobs were something you need to be interested in your off-time to be successful at it, though.

That's probably true for people whose goal is to be a superstar programmer working for some shiny software company. It may not be true for someone who just wants steady, low-key work being the person who handles databases for a non-tech company. Maybe it is true there too. But you don't know yet. Don't rule out that whole range of work until you've done some solid research.  Are you keeping a master list of the career options you've come up with through these tests and suggestions and so forth?
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:55 pm

Yeah, the list is auto-saved on the test's website
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:05 pm

No, I mean your own list to collect all the ideas you've gotten from all different sources.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:45 pm

Not really, a large list of ideas doesn't help if I can't make a decision in the first place

There is a bit of a rush in finding a direction too because my parents do want me to get something going
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:18 pm

The idea is to start with a larger list, narrow it down as you find out more, so that you can gradually focus in on the best fits rather than over-invest in something that may not turn out to be a good choice once you find out more and have to start again from the top.

What do they mean by 'get something going?' Contributing money? Committing to a career path? Building up your resume?
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:24 pm

[Snipped out]
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:41 pm

I think at the core it's money, but definitely doing something that leads to money. I've always had a sneaking suspicion they want me out too (this is in comparison to my sister, who they seem to have no problem if she hangs around). This worries me, because I'm not confident I could survive on my own (and it would be my own, I don't have friends or things like that anymore, I'm not a social/support network kind of person). People seem to make it out as some kind of grand adventure, I think it's just an opening to struggle forever until it breaks me.

There's also a disconnect between us.

This town is hospitality and tourism, trades, health care, construction and camp jobs, and most of our college courses reflect that. None of that is me, or to put it a different way, I'm not passionate or interested in those areas, and I'm not confident that the few things I could do in all of these areas that I would fit in or excel.

The other college courses are online secretary/data-entry courses (that's a woman's job around here... I'm not trying to be genderist about this, I don't want a job where I will commonly be mistaken for a gay man or have people comment at or mock me for extreme lack of manliness. I'm not very manly, but I don't want it shoved in my face either). Given my lack of social connections and let's say inexperience at selling myself (it feels completely wrong because I'm more comfortable downplaying myself), online would also be a weakness in me being able to get anything with it.

Anything else is in another town, or another city, and costs a lot of money to take or do. They flipflop between saying "Well, I guess you'd be in a lot of debt then" (Thanks, because being in debt that I may not be able to pay off isn't worrisome enough) or trying to suggest and re-suggest the local stuff.

My dad's been a logger and did a bit of road construction type labour most of his life, very word-of-mouth industries and the latter he got from someone he knew while logging. My mom hasn't worked since before I was born. They think college is an automatic certification that gets you somewhere, but not even university is that anymore.

I was told at the career counselour too that being so caught up in making the right choice that we don't make a choice is a problem.But to me, there is right and wrong choices, and making the wrong choice can you set you back in a you can never recover from. That's too much pressure for me.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:30 pm

bomaye wrote:I think at the core it's money, but definitely doing something that leads to money. I've always had a sneaking suspicion they want me out too (this is in comparison to my sister, who they seem to have no problem if she hangs around). This worries me, because I'm not confident I could survive on my own (and it would be my own, I don't have friends or things like that anymore, I'm not a social/support network kind of person). People seem to make it out as some kind of grand adventure, I think it's just an opening to struggle forever until it breaks me.

What parts are you worried you can't survive, aside from the job?


There's also a disconnect between us.

This town is hospitality and tourism, trades, health care, construction and camp jobs, and most of our college courses reflect that. None of that is me, or to put it a different way, I'm not passionate or interested in those areas, and I'm not confident that the few things I could do in all of these areas that I would fit in or excel.

The other college courses are online secretary/data-entry courses (that's a woman's job around here... I'm not trying to be genderist about this, I don't want a job where I will commonly be mistaken for a gay man or have people comment at or mock me for extreme lack of manliness. I'm not very manly, but I don't want it shoved in my face either). Given my lack of social connections and let's say inexperience at selling myself (it feels completely wrong because I'm more comfortable downplaying myself), online would also be a weakness in me being able to get anything with it.

Anything else is in another town, or another city, and costs a lot of money to take or do. They flipflop between saying "Well, I guess you'd be in a lot of debt then" (Thanks, because being in debt that I may not be able to pay off isn't worrisome enough) or trying to suggest and re-suggest the local stuff.

If/when it seems clear that some of the good options involve substantial tuition, you can start looking at grants/bursaries/scholarships and at what happens if you can't afford to cover your debt afterwards. There is government assistance to reduce the payments if your income is low, including a provision to eventually pay off your remaining debt for you if you can't do it yourself. Being in debt is not fun, and I wouldn't take it on lightly, but it's also not going to be a death sentence for you.


My dad's been a logger and did a bit of road construction type labour most of his life, very word-of-mouth industries and the latter he got from someone he knew while logging. My mom hasn't worked since before I was born. They think college is an automatic certification that gets you somewhere, but not even university is that anymore.

Everyone deals with that these days. Parents don't understand the current entry-level labour market or even realize that it's changed. You might have to do a bit of mmhmming at their opinions and then not give them too much weight in the scheme of things.  


I was told at the career counselour too that being so caught up in making the right choice that we don't make a choice is a problem.But to me, there is right and wrong choices, and making the wrong choice can you set you back in a you can never recover from. That's too much pressure for me.

That's a very black-and-white way of thinking. There will probably be a bunch of choices that are varying degrees of right-ish and a bunch more that are varying degrees of wrong-ish.  There isn't a one true right choice, and unless you make some pretty dramatically odd decisions, there's not going to be a pit of doom and hellfire wrong choice.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:08 am

Bomeye, your folks sound a lot like mine except swap miner for logger and my dad getting laid off and my mom having to go back to work full time+ as a maid/seamstress. Except mine made it clear at 14 that anyone who was not bringing in $$ was no longer welcome in the home and after 18 you had to be out, so I hit where you are now earlier.

Your parents probably do not know what a college degree brings now and probably cannot contemplate the fact that it is more like a HS degree was when they were young (but more $$). Do you think the pressure would drop if you could bring in some cash while you decide?? Not enough to live on necessarily, but enough to show them you are trying?

I also thought of another short term job option. Clerk at a no tell motel. I did it in HS (that is a field that is not picky on skills) and it was OK if you were a night owl who was OK with occasionally mopping up like and calling 911 for overdoses.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:54 am

Enail wrote:
What parts are you worried you can't survive, aside from the job?

Survival in general. Needing roommates or being too poor to afford this or that (I had a visit to a friend's place before he moved away, I was almost afraid for him seeing how him and his roommate lived)


If/when it seems clear that some of the good options involve substantial tuition, you can start looking at grants/bursaries/scholarships and at what happens if you can't afford to cover your debt afterwards. There is government assistance to reduce the payments if your income is low, including a provision to eventually pay off your remaining debt for you if you can't do it yourself. Being in debt is not fun, and I wouldn't take it on lightly, but it's also not going to be a death sentence for you.

I guess there's that.


That's a very black-and-white way of thinking. There will probably be a bunch of choices that are varying degrees of right-ish and a bunch more that are varying degrees of wrong-ish. There isn't a one true right choice, and unless you make some pretty dramatically odd decisions, there's not going to be a pit of doom and hellfire wrong choice.

It feels like it, though.


reboot wrote:Do you think the pressure would drop if you could bring in some cash while you decide?? Not enough to live on necessarily, but enough to show them you are trying?

If I took them at their word, just making a little bit of money would be enough.

I don't think the pressure to decide is going to dissipate though.


I also thought of another short term job option. Clerk at a no tell motel. I did it in HS (that is a field that is not picky on skills) and it was OK if you were a night owl who was OK with occasionally mopping up like and calling 911 for overdoses.

I have to look away when fake-ass video game characters shoot up or snort, I'd probably have to call 911 for myself just as much as an overdose (and actually, I don't know if those places even hire or not)
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:29 am

I'm pretty sure I'm wearing most people out on this (sorry, I know I have that affect) so I should probably say:

Things like "you can do it" and all that stuff don't work on me. It's sort of like telling someone who's been to a bunch of different therapists that this time it's going to work, or to tell someone to just be themselves when it's never particularly worked for them. Even when it's truly meant, it rings hollow to me, doesn't uplift my spirits or motivates me any.

I've always motivated myself through negativity. I've either gotten angry at something and conquered it (not a good feeling), or through assuming the absolute worst and figuring out a way around it.

This one is a problem because I see a way around the worst possible outcome, because some of it goes intrinsically against what I am (I'm shy/reserved/quiet/whatever you want to call it, not a networker, not a people person, not about trumpeting and exaggerating myself), and the people I'm around just don't know the lay of the land and don't know how to get the lay of the land.


Last edited by bomaye on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Werel on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:29 am

bomaye wrote:Survival in general. Needing roommates or being too poor to afford this or that (I had a visit to a friend's place before he moved away, I was almost afraid for him seeing how him and his roommate lived)

It's good not to have any illusions about standard of living when you're first trying to make it on your own: yes, it sucks ass to eat ramen and use discount toilet paper and dodge collection calls. Nobody wants to do it. It's stressful and scary and you're not wrong to be afraid. But you can survive it. You can get used to it. After three months of ramen and crates-as-chairs, you'll probably be surprised you ever did anything else. It'll seem like the most obvious thing in the world that you got used to it. It's fine not to want a garbage standard of living, but don't psych yourself up to thinking it's unsurvivable. Might be more useful thinking "I'd prefer not to suffer and I'll do what I can on that front, but I'm not even acquainted with my capacity to survive suffering yet*; it's probably bigger than I think and I can probably handle a surprising level of shit."

*not saying you've never suffered in your life, obviously-- just that it sounds like you haven't done a lot of this specific low-resources-high-responsibilities Adult Suffering yet, which is what you're worrying about (I think).

bomaye wrote:I have to look away when fake-ass video game characters shoot up or snort, I'd probably have to call 911 for myself just as much as an overdose

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRD

edit: whoops I guess this is too close to "you can do it," except all I'm saying you can do is survive and up your tolerance for suffering, so maybe that's acceptably pessimistic
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:36 am

I'd need light at the end of the tunnel to be able to survive suffering.

If skimping and barely making do is all that life is going to be, there wouldn't be much point in it
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Werel on Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:06 am

Nah, not that it's going to be that forever. I just mean that there are going to be guaranteed patches of suffering in your life, you're looking at a spot where some suffering is very likely (moving out for the first time sucks, to varying degrees, for most people), and that you ought to believe you're capable of weathering it.

The light throughout the tunnel (not at the end, which implies some kind of metaphysical goal-reward system) is the stuff you already have and value. Media that sets your soul on fire, people you enjoy talking to, solitude, sports, whatever. You get to keep those things, for the most part, while you're suffering through the adaptation to living alone. The suffering of learning to adult can be an extra thing you're handling on the side for a while, still doing the old stuff you get pleasure from, instead of an all-encompassing never-ending state which precludes any enjoyment.

Not useful for actually making choices, just for not panicking. Razz
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:25 am

Affording the old stuff I enjoy I figure would be part of the problem, because that stuff is a luxury/non-essential :p
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