The fear of "Too Late"

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:56 am

But you already own some of the media you enjoy, right? There will be a period of time where you will not be able to get new stuff, but for a while you can revisit old favorites.

As for the no tell motel thing, they rarely not advertise beyond a help wanted sign in the window and free sites like Craigslist, but they do hire since they have high turnoverr. And you do not watch people shoot up, you just find them unresponsive and call 911.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:40 pm

I think it's worth remembering also that if/when you're in a period of skimping Adult Suffering, it sounds like you will still be living nearby family who are getting by reasonably comfortably and who are still going to want you in their life, right? Speaking as someone who's been in a similar position, that probably means that you'll get a few advantages to be more comfortable than you would be with that income but without family with higher income; better meals at their place sometimes and maybe leftovers to take home, birthday and holiday presents that can help you get the occasional luxury/fun thing that you couldn't otherwise afford. And of course, you will keep the stuff you have currently.

Maybe a better way to think about this is: at some point, you're going to need to be independent no matter what you do. Having to be independent without having the skills or situation to handle it is the worst case scenario here, right? So being proactive about developing a path for yourself that recognizes your weaknesses and plans around them, while you are still able to be supported by your parents, will make it easier to reduce the risk and intensity of hard times when that happens. That's the figuring out a way around it part.

Your challenges are not easy, but they're not uniquely bad either. It's not unrealistic to think you can sort something out you can live with from this.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by kath on Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:15 am

Also, this is actually not something where you need to get it all perfect the first time.

It totally feels that way, I get it, but it's not. You can try one job, hate it, get another. Your parents are saying they want contribution, not for you to move out. They may not be entirely truthful, but you don't know.

There are actually motivations between "I AM THE CHAMPION OF THE WORLD! ALL OF MY DECISIONS ARE PERFECT" and "I am just SO ANGRY and SO up against a wall that I HAVE to CONQUER THIS ISSUE". You do not actually have to pick the perfect thing to try something. Trying different things and having some pan out better than others (though probably none pan out perfectly, and some people are more overall happy with how their life has panned out than others, and different people would be different levels of happy with the same life circumstances) is, in fact, the way most of us are bumbling through life. You can take some free coding classes, and see if you can get a distance job doing that. You may not need to be any better at selling yourself to get a distance job than a real-life job. There are a lot of generic-y coding-related jobs that would actually be in execution a lot like being a data entry tech, but probably don't have the same gendered-assumptions.

There are sites like Mechanical Turk ( https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome ) - those are the Tiny Tasks Real People Still Need to Do work - and you can just sign up to do that. I have no idea how much it sucks or whether you'd like it, but trying it out seems like a pretty low-risk proposition.

If you did learn to code or similar, something like upwork ( https://www.upwork.com/i/howitworks/freelancer/ ) might be something to try. In a previous job several years ago, I hired from upwork (when it was odesk), and you sort of have to sell yourself, but "selling yourself" means "accurately characterizing your ability to do a job you probably do a lot of".

Also you can get an entire education online, so you could totally get a degree in coding online from your current home. And, in general, my experience has been that these sorts of jobs are way more worried about you demonstrating you can do the job (which will be very obvious, pretty darn quickly), versus wanting a prestigious education. Especially if you are just looking to make a living, not work at Google.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by celette482 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:22 pm

I just have to reiterate my advice of taking things in small chunks, because Life is not a thing that we can solve in one fell swoop, so of course it feels huge and impossible (because Life IS huge and impossible).
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:19 pm

kath wrote:Also, this is actually not something where you need to get it all perfect the first time.

I'm a perfectionist when I try to do things, that doesn't work for me.

The rest is like, I think I've seen it enough times or it's been said enough times that I kinda get it or at least should have no excuse to not get it by now, but it's the act of choosing that I just don't get.

I don't care about coding. One bit. However, I did do a computer class back in high school that involved coding, so I at least know I can pick it up and understand the fundamental concepts of coding. However, I come back to the fact that I don't care about coding. Should I be spending thousands of dollars learning how to code (and I would, I trust a university program to teach me the skills and reps necessary even though free online could give me the knowledge) on something I don't care about, on the off chance it can get me to be where I guess I should be going. Will that lack of not caring about eat away at my soul, or will it deny me the ability to find a job because I don't care about, or will it be the wrong choice because while I get the fundamentals, not caring about it means I'm not as competent or skilled at it as the people who do care about.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:33 pm

Realistically, this isn't the kind of thing where there is a perfect option. There isn't a hidden "get paid astounding amounts of money to lounge about being served peeled grapes" career path if you just do things right. It's not a puzzle where you can find the piece that fits perfectly; there are going to be pieces that fit better or worse, but it's more of trying to piece a bunch of pieces of broken cookie together, where there might be little gaps or bits you have to squish together or nibble off to fit.  It's a balancing act to maximize the things are pluses to you and minimize the things that are minuses while putting you in position to increase the pluses and reduce the minuses as you progress over time.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by jcorozza on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:37 pm

I have a lot of thoughts, but only a few minutes, so I'll start with: you talk a lot about not caring/lack of interest, specifically in work/careers. What are things/people you DO have interest in?
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:39 pm

I have to second enail. You invest the money to learn whatever for a job. You do it because it allows you to survive on your own. If you are lucky you can find something you enjoy doing, but most people are not lucky. They find something that they are generally not opposed to doing for 8-10 hours a day so that they have the resources to do what they enjoy during the times they are not working.

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:01 pm

jcorozza wrote:I have a lot of thoughts, but only a few minutes, so I'll start with: you talk a lot about not caring/lack of interest, specifically in work/careers. What are things/people you DO have interest in?

I'm unfortunately more of a consumer than do-er. There's that question "If money wasn't an object, what would you do?" I would do what I'm doing now, which is reading a lot and consuming a lot of nerdshit, and not remotely think about a career or working or any of that.

I've also tried to combine the two before (we've tried to get a few websites going on my home forum, one of them actually was a top Naruto website at the time), but once you add a responsibility to something I like, I end up hating it. It's the most soul-crushing, soul-destroying thing there is.


Enail wrote:Realistically, this isn't the kind of thing where there is a perfect option. There isn't a hidden "get paid astounding amounts of money to lounge about being served peeled grapes" career path if you just do things right. It's not a puzzle where you can find the piece that fits perfectly; there are going to be pieces that fit better or worse, but it's more of trying to piece a bunch of pieces of broken cookie together, where there might be little gaps or bits you have to squish together or nibble off to fit. It's a balancing act to maximize the things are pluses to you and minimize the things that are minuses while putting you in position to increase the pluses and reduce the minuses as you progress over time.

reboot wrote:I have to second enail. You invest the money to learn whatever for a job. You do it because it allows you to survive on your own. If you are lucky you can find something you enjoy doing, but most people are not lucky. They find something that they are generally not opposed to doing for 8-10 hours a day so that they have the resources to do what they enjoy during the times they are not working.

But you're not guaranteed the job. I could live with it if there was some light at the end of the tunnel, but you're not even guaranteed that. So now there is a right choice and a wrong choice, the right choice being the one where the education actually pays off.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:19 pm

No one is guaranteed anything in adulthood. You can only pick what seems to be a growing/high demand field and hope you chose right. You can also get a job and then get fired or laid off. There are no sure things, but many highly probable things, so you just need to pick a highly probable option with the knowledge that you might have to switch up at some point.

I know you want to find the 100% guaranteed option, but there just is not one. Uncertainty is part and parcel of adulthood
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:25 pm

And welcome to why I've never been able to make a choice :p
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:42 pm

bomaye wrote:And welcome to why I've never been able to make a choice :p

You have also never been made to make those choices since you had people who would pay for you to survive. :p
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:45 pm

bomaye wrote:
I've also tried to combine the two before (we've tried to get a few websites going on my home forum, one of them actually was a top Naruto website at the time), but once you add a responsibility to something I like, I end up hating it. It's the most soul-crushing, soul-destroying thing there is.

Do you have a sense of what about it makes it soul-crushing? There could be ways to combine things that work for you and ones that don't.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:57 pm

So, it seems like you're looking at things in a very linear way: X education either leads to X job which lasts forever or it leads to no job forever.  

But if you want security, I think a better way to achieve it is to look at it as something you build up in parts, it's a multipronged approach.  X education, which can lead to X job but will also transfer well to Y job and Z job, or you can add on a little more education and become qualified for A job. And then if you do X job, or Y job or Z job, you pick up skills and experience that can help you get another similar job if it doesn't last, or to sidle sideways into a slightly different kind of job. And while you're working, if you can, you save money that will be a cushion if something goes wrong there. And so on.

You can't have a perfect plan that will never go wrong, but you can have a plan that lends itself to backup plans, which is a kind of security you don't currently have much of.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:05 pm

reboot wrote:
bomaye wrote:And welcome to why I've never been able to make a choice :p

You have also never been made to make those choices since you had people who would pay for you to survive. :p

I'm aware of that. There's a possibility I might curl up and die if I ever had to. That's only half of a joke. :p

Enail wrote:
bomaye wrote:
I've also tried to combine the two before (we've tried to get a few websites going on my home forum, one of them actually was a top Naruto website at the time), but once you add a responsibility to something I like, I end up hating it. It's the most soul-crushing, soul-destroying thing there is.

Do you have a sense of what about it makes it soul-crushing? There could be ways to combine things that work for you and ones that don't.

It's responsibility. Being on someone else's time, on someone else's schedule, under someone else's authority, doing things for reasons or motivations that aren't my own.


So, it seems like you're looking at things in a very linear way: X education either leads to X job which lasts forever or it leads to no job forever.

But if you want security, I think a better way to achieve it is to look at it as something you build up in parts, it's a multipronged approach. X education, which can lead to X job but will also transfer well to Y job and Z job, or you can add on a little more education and become qualified for A job. And then if you do X job, or Y job or Z job, you pick up skills and experience that can help you get another similar job if it doesn't last, or to sidle sideways into a slightly different kind of job. And while you're working, if you can, you save money that will be a cushion if something goes wrong there. And so on.

You can't have a perfect plan that will never go wrong, but you can have a plan that lends itself to backup plans, which is a kind of security you don't currently have much of.

I don't know how things transfer. That stuff doesn't make sense to me. I looked at some of the computer options that I got from my list thing, and the kinds of educations needed for them, and there were so many options in so many different directions, I don't know how I'd ever choose one over the other or what one means to any of the others.

Like I've offhand heard of stories where someone goes to university for this, then gets a job doing that, that doesn't utilize their degree at all but somehow the degree got them the job in the first place. I don't understand that line of thinking or that way of operation at all. That's like 1+1=2, except sometimes it can equal 3 or 4 or 5 depending on how the ones happen to shift that day.

And if that stuff is about making connections or knowing people, that doesn't work for me anyways.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by ReploidArmada on Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:40 pm

If you dislike the responsibility of being under someone else's schedule and working in someone else's system, would you consider looking at ways to become self-employed?

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:53 pm

Reploid stole the words out of my mouth. If you went with coding, a lot of people freelance. It would be hard to make a living when you first start out, but you do not have to be immediately self-supporting, so that might be doable.

A few months ago I posted a thread on behalf of a friend who's son is not academically inclined asking people here for advice about how to get started coding. Here is the link. The advice was really good.

These are links to free, good quality coding training:
http://code.org
https://www.codecademy.com
https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming


Last edited by reboot on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed first link)
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:56 pm

A degree is often used as a marker of ability to learn, a general knowledge base in a wider field, or broad skills in the line of the type of degree (written communication, research, math etc). Degrees are often very flexible in terms of what they can get you, but the downside is that they sometimes aren't as tightly targeted to any one thing, which can make it harder to identify opportunities (that's much less a problem in science degrees than arts, from what I've heard).
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Wondering on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:04 pm

Yes, I have a job that has nothing to do with the degree I got, but the skills needed for the degree I got are needed for this job. And having the degree showed I have those skills.

You don't need to treat a degree as the be all and end all of your future career choices. It opens up some doors, but it's not likely to close any that aren't currently closed for you.

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:30 pm

ReploidArmada wrote:If you dislike the responsibility of being under someone else's schedule and working in someone else's system, would you consider looking at ways to become self-employed?

reboot wrote:Reploid stole the words out of my mouth. If you went with coding, a lot of people freelance. It would be hard to make a living when you first start out, but you do not have to be immediately self-supporting, so that might be doable.

Wouldn't that just be foisting even more responsibility on myself? Like, I'd have to hustle a ton to hopefully get work?

Enail wrote:A degree is often used as a marker of ability to learn, a general knowledge base in a wider field, or broad skills in the line of the type of degree (written communication, research, math etc). Degrees are often very flexible in terms of what they can get you, but the downside is that they sometimes aren't as tightly targeted to any one thing, which can make it harder to identify opportunities (that's much less a problem in science degrees than arts, from what I've heard).

Wondering wrote:Yes, I have a job that has nothing to do with the degree I got, but the skills needed for the degree I got are needed for this job. And having the degree showed I have those skills.

You don't need to treat a degree as the be all and end all of your future career choices. It opens up some doors, but it's not likely to close any that aren't currently closed for you.

I get that you need a degree to know specific things, but you actually need a degree to prove you can learn? Am I misunderstanding this part? Like there's a certain type of learning you can only learn in university or whatever and that proves you can do it?

Edit: Hilarious side-note: My sister showed up to a formal job interview way under-dressed (everyone else was in business attire, she was in jeans and a shirt) and she got into the final cut anyways.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by ReploidArmada on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:34 pm

I feel like most of it is an easier way of telling your potential employer "hey, I successfully studied X years of Y subject, and Y subject gave me Z skills that are necessary and/or helpful for the opening I am applying for". Also, if you were self-employed, you would have to genuinely look for opportunities sometimes - but you would be doing that on your own schedule, in your way, and you would be responsible and accountable to no one but yourself and your client. To some people, it's more appealing to have full control over your professional destiny.

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:09 pm

Bomeye, you can either be self directed or directed by others with some level of responsibility if you want to earn money and give the adulting thing a try. It is unavoidable because people only pay you for doing something they want or need, which entails some level of responsibility. It is the nature of the beast. Up to you if you if you want someone dictating your duties, which is less responsibility and less control, or being self employed, which is more responsibility and more control.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:10 pm

It's not so much that you need a degree to prove that you can learn, but it's an easy thing to look for as a marker for things that are otherwise harder to screen for, like learning, organization skills, dedication, as well as for a lot of more general skills. Even if it's ruling some people out who would also have those skills, it's narrowing down the pool for employer.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:16 pm

reboot wrote:Bomeye, you can either be self directed or directed by others with some level of responsibility if you want to earn money and give the adulting thing a try. It is unavoidable because people only pay you for doing something they want or need, which entails some level of responsibility. It is the nature of the beast. Up to you if you if you want someone dictating your duties, which is less responsibility and less control, or being self employed, which is more responsibility and more control.

I was more asking on the comparison between the two.

On the surface, working for myself and being my own boss sounds awesome, but under the surface, I actually need something that people will pay for, will have to constantly try to find new work at worst, have to handle taxes and all that stuff. That sounds like a lot more work, and a lot less do-able.

It's also being framed as a choice between "you could do this or that" when I don't think I have anything either choice would want anyways.

Enail wrote:It's not so much that you need a degree to prove that you can learn, but it's an easy thing to look for as a marker for things that are otherwise harder to screen for, like learning, organization skills, dedication, as well as for a lot of more general skills. Even if it's ruling some people out who would also have those skills, it's narrowing down the pool for employer.

So you have to pay thousands of dollars for a report card to make it easy on employers? :p
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:24 pm

I think you are getting ahead of yourself a bit. You need to decide whether or not you are going to aim for a job that requires prior training or one that does not (eg. service industry, janitorial, food service). Then decide if you would prefer working for someone else or working for yourself. Both options have challenges and both have benefits.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

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