The fear of "Too Late"

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:27 pm

Not too shabby!
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Werel on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:41 am

Nice. You better have been smiling the entire time, though.

On the job/training thing:
Enail wrote:The details matter for this stuff.
Yeah, one detail is time-- how long before you have to support yourself? If it's a while (stable family willing/capable of supporting you for the indefinite, their health is good, whatever else) you can consider options that take more unpaid time but might have preferable payoff, like professional training/degree programs, than if you're looking at having to support yourself within the next year or two and need to just make living money pretty fast.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:32 pm

I think there's quite awhile yet until they decide to sell this house.

The way to money around here is like

1) Go to camp (NOPE)
2) Nursing (I've seen that job in action NOPE)
3) Logging (my dad NOPE'd me when I was like 4, I don't think I could handle it having seen him work at it most of my life) or mining or things like that (those industries are somewhat in trouble around here anyways)
4) Have a parent who owns a business, or the dreaded "know someone" (We don't really know anyone, my parents are kind of anti-social too <.<)
5) Go to uni and then somehow have something that somewhere around here needs (probably involves not being able to find a job elsewhere too)
6) I don't even know, right place/right time or something

That's been part of the issue over my life is that I don't know how #6 happens around here

The colleges around here are a bit limited too. A few trades, some nursing stuff, I belieeeeve you can do the first few years of certain science degrees before you have to transfer to a larger university, there's things like bookeeping or stuff like that that's more jobs that camp wives take.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:50 pm

I think you're going to want to start off by doing some thinking about what you can handle and what you need in a work environment to figure out what direction you should be heading in. Don't skip straight to ruling broad categories out, because most fields will have a number of different roles that may not all be what you picture.

And some research on what is in demand in your area and what career resources are available, because, while I don't know your particular area, your picture doesn't sound terribly complete, and I think you should be talking to people who know more about the current lay of the land. Certainly, you shouldn't even be considering a degree until you know more about what kind of work that translates to in your area or how it does.

In your middle-to-long-range plan, you might want to consider moving elsewhere, temporarily for school or longer term. That doesn't have to mean packing up and moving hours away from everyone you know (and everyone you know may not stay exactly where you are now either, so it might be wise to take into account their future movements), a small amount of flexibility might open up more options for you.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by eselle28 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:17 pm

I was just doing some googling because my base of knowledge only applies to my own country, and I found this page and this page. I am not sure if either will provide many helpful answers that are local to you, but it looks like there are some grant and opportunity related resources there.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:17 pm

There's an expected huge trade shortage in Canada incoming, but there's also a reason for that. Most of it is rough work, or not traditional job security (you're in demand, as long as you're willing to move all over the place regularly), or you have to work out of camp. Some of it you can be sued if you fuck up too (electrician comes to mind). I think the reason there's grants for apprenticeships is that you still have to find someone willing to pay you to learn on the job, which not every employer wants that.

There's a lot about trades where it's like, it doesn't matter what the money is, it's not worth the lifestyle that comes with it. I'm also not planning on having children, so I while I do worry about my future and my ability to live in that future, I don't feel compelled hard enough to get into those fields the same way someone who has kids or wants that kind of thing does either.

Enail wrote:I think you're going to want to start off by doing some thinking about what you can handle and what you need in a work environment to figure out what direction you should be heading in. Don't skip straight to ruling broad categories out, because most fields will have a number of different roles that may not all be what you picture.

And some research on what is in demand in your area and what career resources are available, because, while I don't know your particular area, your picture doesn't sound terribly complete, and I think you should be talking to people who know more about the current lay of the land. Certainly, you shouldn't even be considering a degree until you know more about what kind of work that translates to in your area or how it does.

In your middle-to-long-range plan, you might want to consider moving elsewhere, temporarily for school or longer term. That doesn't have to mean packing up and moving hours away from everyone you know (and everyone you know may not stay exactly where you are now either, so it might be wise to take into account their future movements), a small amount of flexibility might open up more options for you.

Eh, maybe I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, sorry.

I find this kind of thing extremely frustrating every which way.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:45 pm

I suspect some of that frustration is coming from overly broad assumptions about what's being suggested, but I'm sure there are other options you can look at if you want to continue. I think what you need most that this point is more information.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:58 pm

It's frustrating because this is kind of a dying resource town, demand is light to nonexistent for things, and it's usually who you know and not what you know. And like when you say "maybe you should go to school but you don't have to be hours away", that kind of school that you move for is hours away.

The only things I've been really good at is passing classes in school, and I can figure out computer things if I absolutely need to. Being sociable or making the friends or connections to get access to those things, or somehow having a plan that isn't going to go wrong (all those kids who went to uni and couldn't find anything afterwards had a plan too), that stuff's never made much sense to me.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:31 pm

You can't guarantee nothing will go wrong, no matter how good your plan. Things go wrong. What you can do is develop skills that will be more easily employable, build up resources and skills that will make it easier when things do go wrong, and have strategies to cope with difficulties. Since networking is probably not going to be your strong point, I'd be inclined to lean towards high-demand specialist skills rather than generalist, which are more flexible but tend to rest on more ability to sell yourself.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:35 pm

Sorry all, handling frustration and making firm decisions are still heavy weak points of mine, I do appreciate the help and suggestions
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by jcorozza on Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:09 pm

Have you tried any career inventory stuff? Something like this is a good one to start: https://www.roguecc.edu/Counseling/HollandCodes/about.asp

It can give you an idea of what job categories you'd be interested in/good at, so you can narrow down what to look into.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:34 pm

Conventional Investigative Social (Social? Must've clicked the wrong thing) "Few occupations matched your chosen interest areas."

There's a bunch of secretary/accounting and a little bit of computer stuff that came up, but it mostly says "maybe you should try a different combination"
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by jcorozza on Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:46 pm

Usually two will work well together - C and I would (and since you're questioning the social, that's probably the least important - did it give you percentages? Some people just score really high in one, and low in others, which can give you some options. Some of the ones I found for just CI:

http://www.vista-cards.com/occupations/ic.html

https://www.onetonline.org/explore/interests/Investigative/Conventional/

(this is one you can mess around with a little, add in the third letter, etc)

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:01 am

The more I look into this, the worse off I feel :/

I'm trying not to feel hopeless or fall into despair about this, but it's also really hard not to do what I usually do and assume it's catastrophic and that there's nothing I can do about it.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by celette482 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:00 am

I wanna unpack that for a minute.

What if it IS catastrophic and there's no way you can succeed with flying colors? What if the situation (the economic realities of your town plus all the practical considerations you have to struggle with) is just too big to really fix in one fell swoop? If you try anyway, any small amount of success (getting a part-time job to save up cash, for example) is a real win, since you're up against enormous odds anyway. The situation is super tough, almost insurmountable- give yourself permission to succeed just a wee bit and fail a whole lot.

Instead of thinking about how all the challenges just make complete success impossible, think about how all the challenges mean that even the tiniest improvement is a win worth celebrating.

For more practical advice, I'll tell you what I do and recommend to everyone facing a huge problem with lots of factors to consider. Take a piece of paper and start writing down problems. "No jobs" "No education" "Need social support from family" whatever. Then, take those big problems and start writing down the smaller problems that led to those big problems: "Schools around here don't offer what I want to do" "every job here is dead-end" "Logging is dangerous and not the path I want to take" etc. Once you've got everything lined up and you have all those problems out, take a look at them. Some are gonna be huge and maybe need to be broken down even further. Others are gonna have obvious, maybe even easy, solutions. Now maybe something like "I need to have money put aside for the future" or "Learn how to do laundry/take care of myself independently" doesn't look like it's gonna solve the big headliner problems, but you can't solve the big headliner problems without solving the little ones. Prioritize the low-hanging fruit. A lot of the problems you'll have written down will end up being cross-referenced (like the school problem could be solved by going to a different town/bigger city for school, but to do that you'd need money and life skills- working on money and life skills helps solve their own problem and sets you up to solve other problems).

Trying to basically solve adulthood is something we all have to tackle at some point and it is a bear of a problem. But it has weak spots and access points and tiny victories that can chop the problem into manageable pieces.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:58 am

Hey, it's really good that you're making the effort not to leap to catastrophe. Very much seconding Celette here, it isa big thing and it's okay to feel like it's too big to deal with - so you're going to break it down to smaller things. That doesn't mean you're failing, this is what we all do.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:05 pm

Bomeye, I think you are taking everything too fast and that is why it seems overwhelming. At this point you do not have enough data about any job or industry to make an informed decision.

For example, resource industries like mining or timber have a lot of support structure that make the field jobs possible. Things like printer/copier repair, supply management (usually at a centralized warehouse), gear/equipment/machinery repair, etc.. Sometimes these jobs might require some travel even if it is just to learn how to use/fix new equipment or field fixes, but usually it is not for more than a week or two.

Maybe, since it sounds like moving is not an option, try researching all possible employers in your area. Big, small, all of them just to see what exists? Do not think about whether you can or want to do it. Just do it to get a full picture of what is out there.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:56 pm

I have been looking at local job boards. Most of it is retail/grocery, sales, construction/trades/resources/aquaculture, logging, nursing, things that require experience and degrees like stuff in a bank or building inspectors or things like that. There's also fast food and convenience stores. Things like schools and doctors and dentist offices. Small businesses.

celette482 wrote:
Trying to basically solve adulthood is something we all have to tackle at some point and it is a bear of a problem. But it has weak spots and access points and tiny victories that can chop the problem into manageable pieces.

I feel like most everyone else had a certain I-don't-know that's eluded me. Confidence, or independence or lack of fear or support or some kind of indicator that they're good and this or that I don't know that gets them through those difficulties. I just feel alone and useless most of the time, and don't feel pride even when I do something well, or even when someone else tells me I legitimately did something well (it always feels fake).

celette482 wrote:I wanna unpack that for a minute.

What if it IS catastrophic and there's no way you can succeed with flying colors? What if the situation (the economic realities of your town plus all the practical considerations you have to struggle with) is just too big to really fix in one fell swoop? If you try anyway, any small amount of success (getting a part-time job to save up cash, for example) is a real win, since you're up against enormous odds anyway. The situation is super tough, almost insurmountable- give yourself permission to succeed just a wee bit and fail a whole lot.

If it is catastrophic, I don't know how I'll be able to survive or live. If I fail too much, I may never succeed at escaping it, there's no light at the end of the tunnel.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:14 pm

The thing is, every one of those businesses have more types of jobs or use services from other businesses beyond what is posted. For example, everywhere probably uses copiers/printers so someone trained to service them would likely have local work. Everywhere probably has a heating/cooling system of some sort, so that would be another form of local work. Restaurants and whatnot have equipment that needs to be serviced. If I were you, I would focus less on immediate openings and more on skills that multiple businesses in the area might need or services that might be useful. Since you are in the exploratory stage and do not need a job RIGHT NOW, doing more research on what is possible might make sense.

I keep mentioning equipment repair and service because I know it is something that does not require a degree (just a certification), it does not require physical strength and is generally just following protocols/reading instructions (which is something you seem to feel comfortable with).
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by celette482 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Fail too big or fail too often? Because those are two very different things. Think about the difference between tripping on the sidewalk and plummeting off a cliff. The problem you're facing is really big, and if you try to tackle it all at once, you probably will plummet off the cliff. But, it's big because it's made up of a lot of discrete parts, each of which you can succeed or fail at as well. But those little successes and failures aren't the equivalent of the cliff. So, it won't feel like a big win if you succeed, but it also won't be a plummet if you don't. And all the while you are gradually creeping toward solving the whole thing.

No one adulted all at once. No matter when people started, they all did it in pieces.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:47 pm

celette482 wrote:
No one adulted all at once. No matter when people started, they all did it in pieces.

I'm not even sure where to start, or how to avoid the stigma of being a loser who's really behind on it :/

reboot wrote:The thing is, every one of those businesses have more types of jobs or use services from other businesses beyond what is posted. For example, everywhere probably uses copiers/printers so someone trained to service them would likely have local work. Everywhere probably has a heating/cooling system of some sort, so that would be another form of local work. Restaurants and whatnot have equipment that needs to be serviced. If I were you, I would focus less on immediate openings and more on skills that multiple businesses in the area might need or services that might be useful. Since you are in the exploratory stage and do not need a job RIGHT NOW, doing more research on what is possible might make sense.

I keep mentioning equipment repair and service because I know it is something that does not require a degree (just a certification), it does not require physical strength and is generally just following protocols/reading instructions (which is something you seem to feel comfortable with).

Those businesses would have people who can already do those things for them, right? I've looked at the local colleges and stuff and none of them offer courses about generic equipment repair or anything like that. :/

Like, a lot of this stuff is "they already have people who can do these things, why would they want me, who doesn't have much in the way of anything to show for himself?"
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by celette482 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:59 pm

I just told you where to start. With a chart that says "To be Adult" and list things you think Adults should do. and then the things that need to be done to do those things and the things that need to be done to do THOSE things and so on, until you reach a point where you have pieces that you can comfortably chew. Putting our pants on one leg at a time.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:00 pm

No, they usually do not have people on staff to do it. They usually hire another company to supply service. Sometimes it is the equipment dealer, sometimes the person they rent the equipment from (my work does this). But at this point do not look at jobs that are open now, since any repair/service job would require some training and certification.

There will probably not be a generic equipment repair course, but something like "electronics technology" or "electronic technician trade certification" etc. Medical equipment would have another training track, probably called something like "biomedical engineering technology" or "electronics technology". My guess is the medical gear field requires more training because the gear is more complicated
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:01 pm

celette482 wrote:I just told you where to start. With a chart that says "To be Adult" and list things you think Adults should do. and then the things that need to be done to do those things and the things that need to be done to do THOSE things and so on, until you reach a point where you have pieces that you can comfortably chew. Putting our pants on one leg at a time.

I second this. You are jumping in to do "all the things" and no one learned to adult all at once. You need to slow down and take this one step at a time.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:20 pm

celette482 wrote:I just told you where to start. With a chart that says "To be Adult" and list things you think Adults should do. and then the things that need to be done to do those things and the things that need to be done to do THOSE things and so on, until you reach a point where you have pieces that you can comfortably chew. Putting our pants on one leg at a time.

Right, sorry. I'm overwhelming myself. I'm going to start one tonight and see if I can work my way through it.

reboot wrote:No, they usually do not have people on staff to do it. They usually hire another company to supply service. Sometimes it is the equipment dealer, sometimes the person they rent the equipment from (my work does this). But at this point do not look at jobs that are open now, since any repair/service job would require some training and certification.

There will probably not be a generic equipment repair course, but something like "electronics technology" or "electronic technician trade certification" etc. Medical equipment would have another training track, probably called something like "biomedical engineering technology" or "electronics technology". My guess is the medical gear field requires more training because the gear is more complicated

There is no medical stuff around here, but there is an Electronics core foundation thing, but it kind of seems more as a Year 1 to an Industrial Electronics/robotics thing. No appliance certificate anywhere that I can see. The repair places I googled seem like mom-and-pop kind of set-ups.
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