The fear of "Too Late"

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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:08 pm

bomaye wrote:
reboot wrote:
I can attest that you can accumulate some wealth advantage without being born to it through the choices you make and the risks you take. I did almost everything Werel is doing without a safety net (I stopped at a masters degree). Coming from money helps a lot, but it is not required

Aight, what if you failed? You took your degrees and ultimately could not finish them for whatever reason. You're now in a lot of debt, have to pay it off somehow, have to live somewhere, probably stare at a wall for entertainment because you can't afford anything else. What do

First of all, I worked through college and kept my loan rates down and went to a state school (although I did pull some hijinks for residency - can't be done now) as a community college transfer and chose my grad school because I was able to secure a graduate serf position and worked a second job. I only took loans when I could not quite earn enough or cut expenses enough to pay for a semester. So even if I had failed my loans would have been about the cost of a Honda Civic and tough, but doable on minimum wage to pay off.

Had I failed, I would have done what I did every summer during school: 1) Take as many jobs of any kind and work as many hours as possible until the loans are gone - hopefully one would be in a restaurant so I could get by on one big meal a day and save on food expenses; 2) Rent a shared bed or a couch because I would only need a place to sleep - between work and biking/bussing to work I would only need a place for 5-7 hours; 3) Entertainment would be minimal since there would be so little free time, but (if out of school life was like summer life) what entertainment there was would probably involve cheap booze and hanging out with friends from work for an hour or 2. It is a rough life but one I have done and one many immigrants do all the time to survive and send money home.

Eventually, after I paid off my loans and saved up, I could start to look for a longer term set up. I would cut back to 1-2 jobs. I would save as much money as I could and start looking for jobs in places with cheap housing. Despite failing out of college, I would still have more skills than someone who never went (and even more if this was a grad school failure since I would still have a degree). I would probably go for a low level administrative position in an industry that had a lot of diverse skills under its umbrella. Then I would start applying, closest places first in an outward spiral. I would hop the 'Hound if they required onsite interviews (since stupid homeland security has made it too hard to hop freight trains like I used to). If I could not find a job, I would just keep working and stay in the shared living situation. My entertainment would be job hunting and the library.

You forget that there are people busting ass every day to pay off loans to the coyotes or snakeheads who smuggled them into the country. Those costs can be as high or higher than student loans and the price for not paying is much worse than bad credit. Most of these folks either do not have degrees or do not have degrees recognized by their new country and they often do not speak the language well or at all. If they can pay off their loans and support themselves, and even move on to better circumstances, I, as a citizen and speaker of the local language with a HS or college degree can certainly do the same if I do what they do.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:16 pm

Werel wrote:
Anyway, dunno if that's useful, but you should be aware that pretty much everybody else is walking the tightrope all the time; they've just had longer to get used to the vertigo. People manage this shit, somehow, and so can you.

That's not really $$$ then, dummy :p

reboot wrote:
Had I failed, I would have done what I did every summer during school: 1) Take as many jobs of any kind and work as many hours as possible until the loans are gone - hopefully one would be in a restaurant so I could get by on one big meal a day and save on food expenses; 2) Rent a shared bed or a couch because I would only need a place to sleep - between work and biking/bussing to work I would only need a place for 5-7 hours; 3) Entertainment would be minimal since there would be so little free time, but (if out of school life was like summer life) what entertainment there was would probably involve cheap booze and hanging out with friends from work for an hour or 2. It is a rough life but one I have done and one many immigrants do all the time to survive and send money home.

[...]
My entertainment would be job hunting and the library.

This basically sounds like what I'd consider to be a circle of hell.


You forget that there are people busting ass every day to pay off loans to the coyotes or snakeheads who smuggled them into the country. Those costs can be as high or higher than student loans and the price for not paying is much worse than bad credit. Most of these folks either do not have degrees or do not have degrees recognized by their new country and they often do not speak the language well or at all. If they can pay off their loans and support themselves, and even move on to better circumstances, I, as a citizen and speaker of the local language with a HS or college degree can certainly do the same if I do what they do.

That's not a life, that's just existing until you die.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:27 pm

Given that your parents have been both willing and able to support you long after high school, I'm not sure why you're assuming you'd be in a situation more like Reboot's than like Werel's. Your parents might want you to start supporting yourself and make you move out at some point, but it doesn't seem likely they'd actually let you be homeless if you gave it a go and then things went badly, unless I'm missing something? That's the kind of "safe landing" most people who have one get.

And you would also benefit from another one of those things you get from growing up with enough money even if it's not to the degree that a rich upbringing would - you have stuff. The things you own now, you would still have. Even if you couldn't buy much new, you would have game systems and existing games, books, all the things you use for entertainment now. You would probably get some new things for presents, too.

You should also remember that a lot of the people you're hearing about this stuff from are in the US, where tuition is much, much higher. My wife is from the US but went to school in Canada, where she had to pay the international student fees (2-3 times as much as for Canadian students) at one of the most expensive Canadian universities, and it was still way cheaper than if she'd gone to a fairly cheap school in the US.  It's a lot of money even here, but it's not as dramatic a risk/cost as it it there. Similarly, the minimum wage here is higher than in most states in the US. Things can be tough here, but a lot of what you're hearing is worse than how things are here.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm

bomaye wrote:
reboot wrote:
Had I failed, I would have done what I did every summer during school: 1) Take as many jobs of any kind and work as many hours as possible until the loans are gone - hopefully one would be in a restaurant so I could get by on one big meal a day and save on food expenses; 2) Rent a shared bed or a couch because I would only need a place to sleep - between work and biking/bussing to work I would only need a place for 5-7 hours; 3) Entertainment would be minimal since there would be so little free time, but (if out of school life was like summer life) what entertainment there was would probably involve cheap booze and hanging out with friends from work for an hour or 2. It is a rough life but one I have done and one many immigrants do all the time to survive and send money home.

[...]
My entertainment would be job hunting and the library.

This basically sounds like what I'd consider to be a circle of hell.


You forget that there are people busting ass every day to pay off loans to the coyotes or snakeheads who smuggled them into the country. Those costs can be as high or higher than student loans and the price for not paying is much worse than bad credit. Most of these folks either do not have degrees or do not have degrees recognized by their new country and they often do not speak the language well or at all. If they can pay off their loans and support themselves, and even move on to better circumstances, I, as a citizen and speaker of the local language with a HS or college degree can certainly do the same if I do what they do.

That's not a life, that's just existing until you die.

It is what you do when Mommy and Daddy will not let you live at home when you do not have a job. Or what you do when you have no Mommy and Daddy.

Not everyone in the world has the luxury of having a choice Smile
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:37 pm

reboot wrote:
It is what you do when Mommy and Daddy will not let you live at home when you do not have a job. Or what you do when you have no Mommy and Daddy.

Not everyone in the world has the luxury of having a choice Smile

Could always jump off a bridge Shrug
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:42 pm

bomaye wrote:
reboot wrote:
It is what you do when Mommy and Daddy will not let you live at home when you do not have a job. Or what you do when you have no Mommy and Daddy.

Not everyone in the world has the luxury of having a choice Smile

Could always jump off a bridge Shrug

Remember that's not actually the situation you're in, you have choices.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:43 pm

Nah I'm just saying, there's always choices :p
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:23 pm

bomaye wrote:
reboot wrote:
It is what you do when Mommy and Daddy will not let you live at home when you do not have a job. Or what you do when you have no Mommy and Daddy.

Not everyone in the world has the luxury of having a choice Smile

Could always jump off a bridge Shrug

I definitely contemplated it more than once, but that would have felt too much like quitting something that was doable.

bomaye wrote:Nah I'm just saying, there's always choices :p

There are choices, but way fewer if you do not have a safety net like you do. If your parents kicked you out of the house, you would have fewer choices than if they let you stay. Kids that age out of foster care have fewer choices than people with parents around, even if you can not live with those parents and they cannot support you. In each circumstance, though, you have options, although the number of easy ones declines as your resources decrease
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:24 pm

reboot wrote:
I definitely contemplated it more than once, but that would have felt too much like quitting something that was doable.

Now I regret saying that
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Werel on Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:02 pm

bomaye wrote:That's not really $$$ then, dummy :p
K, just as long as you get that I am literally a child of the 1%, and don't have any unrealistic ideas about what life is like for even 1%er-advantages people. Wink

Enail wrote:You should also remember that a lot of the people you're hearing about this stuff from are in the US, where tuition is much, much higher... Things can be tough here, but a lot of what you're hearing is worse than how things are here.
Repeated for emphasis. Y'all are head and shoulders above us as far as the attainability of higher ed without crippling life debt, as well as general social safety nets. It would be harder for you to be homeless than most Americans, and you also don't face some of the one-incident Game Overs that we do (e.g. an accident or illness when uninsured can bankrupt you for life in the US, much less so in Canada). You have some good leeway to take a few risks, because absolute destitution is a little bit harder for you than for an American.

bomaye wrote:This basically sounds like what I'd consider to be a circle of hell.
It's life for the vast majority of people on this planet, and most of them manage to find some joy in it. Also, reboot is a fucking badass who's got "low peasant" levels of hustle, and I wish I were as determined and tough as her. The rich are so soft and lazy. Laughing
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:25 am

Werel wrote:
K, just as long as you get that I am literally a child of the 1%, and don't have any unrealistic ideas about what life is like for even 1%er-advantages people. Wink

Maybe technically speaking, but if your money doesn't make itself or you don't live off of a trust, you're not really 1%ing it. You can assuage any of your high-class guilt :p


Repeated for emphasis. Y'all are head and shoulders above us as far as the attainability of higher ed without crippling life debt, as well as general social safety nets. It would be harder for you to be homeless than most Americans, and you also don't face some of the one-incident Game Overs that we do (e.g. an accident or illness when uninsured can bankrupt you for life in the US, much less so in Canada). You have some good leeway to take a few risks, because absolute destitution is a little bit harder for you than for an American.

There's also less opportunity because a smaller country, and since there's higher education levels, you have to be head and shoulders above the competition in some aspect. That's not going to be me regardless.


It's life for the vast majority of people on this planet, and most of them manage to find some joy in it.

If by joy, you mean things like drugs or alcohol, sure :p
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:12 am

bomaye wrote:


It's life for the vast majority of people on this planet, and most of them manage to find some joy in it.

If by joy, you mean things like drugs or alcohol, sure :p

By joy, it was friends and figuring how to have fun/take a break at low cost. Things like buying a cupcake for one of the people I shared a room with because it was her birthday and everyone in the house coming together to sing and share snacks. Or doing chariot races in shopping carts in the parking lot after close. Or eating our group meals in the kitchen that the chefs whipped up and telling stories of awful customers.

Camaraderie is cheap and brings a lot of joy, especially in tough circumstances
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:23 pm

bomaye wrote:

Repeated for emphasis. Y'all are head and shoulders above us as far as the attainability of higher ed without crippling life debt, as well as general social safety nets. It would be harder for you to be homeless than most Americans, and you also don't face some of the one-incident Game Overs that we do (e.g. an accident or illness when uninsured can bankrupt you for life in the US, much less so in Canada). You have some good leeway to take a few risks, because absolute destitution is a little bit harder for you than for an American.

There's also less opportunity because a smaller country, and since there's higher education levels, you have to be head and shoulders above the competition in some aspect. That's not going to be me regardless.

Nah, you're scrambling to dig up negatives that aren't really relevant. For the most part, your opportunities aren't going to be heavily affected by the population country-wide, just the local, there are plenty of small towns in the US with the same kind of opportunities you've got. And the education levels are a little higher, but it's not a big enough difference that it dramatically increases your competition from the US. The negative you're missing is that costs of goods tend to be higher here, which does make a difference. But if you're looking at worst-case scenarios, there's a dramatically better safety net for you than there would be if you were living in an equivalent place in the US, so you should be taking that into account when you're stressing about the horror stories you hear.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:16 pm

I gave up like months ago (I do that pretty easy) but then someone phoned back today to set up an interview :/
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:37 pm

Congratulations! When is it?
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:42 pm

Don't know, still have to phone the person back. I don't want to do it but probably have to force myself into it anyways.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:48 pm

DO IT! DO IT! cheers
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Werel on Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:26 pm

DUUUDE YEEESSSS!!! Shiny/thrilled Call them back and kill that interview! YOU CAN DO IT
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by reboot on Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:54 pm

bomaye wrote:Don't know, still have to phone the person back. I don't want to do it but probably have to force myself into it anyways.

Do it, if only for the experience of doing it. Think of it from an investigatory perspective. You have read about people doing this sort of thing online and you are going to see what it is like IRL. A call commits you to nothing
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by kath on Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:05 am

Yes, go for it! Doing something like that once at least gives you an idea how that kind of thing works, so it's very valuable for making future interviews feel slightly easier (each and every one makes future ones less terrifying Smile)
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Pagliacci on Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:58 am


_________________
Heard joke once: Man goes to Doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor...I am Pagliacci!"

Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:24 pm

10 AM on Monday (I was a little too eff'ed up from horrible sleeping sched to do it today) for a nearby Convenience Store
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Werel on Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:32 pm

Lifting weights YEAHHHH, you got this* Boxing

*"this" just meaning "learning from this interview," cause that's guaranteed success, anything else is a neat bonus

(Now you just have to emotionally recover from Boku Dake finale by Monday Uh-oh)
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by Enail on Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:02 pm

Shiny/thrilled Way to go, Bomaye!!! Getting the call back out of the way is awesome all on its own (calling people back is the absolute worst!), now it's just the interview to go! Kick its ass!
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Re: The fear of "Too Late"

Post by bomaye on Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:13 pm

Changed it to 10 AM tomorrow :/
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