[vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

[vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:22 am

I'm not really sure if I'm looking for specific advice. I've just been feeling this way for some time now, so here goes:

I wish I didn't have to deal with my sexual feelings, because I then wouldn't need to immerse myself in porn. I can't really tell if I'm purely dealing with my libido or my conditioned cravings (I have a feeling it's the latter). Some days I wish I never found porn. At least then, I wouldn't have to deal with varying degrees of regret after I've had my 'fix'.

I'm of two minds when it comes to letting go (and when I say 'let go' I mean completely abstaining from masturbation, ever). On the one hand I don't want to let go, because doing so means that I won't be able to indulge in something that gives me relief, excitement and a sense of euphoria, to an extent. I won't have a means to take a break from the background noise that is my nervousness, anxiety and worry.

On the other hand, letting go would mean that I'd be happier. Letting go means having a chance at recovering from whatever damages I've accumulated over the years thanks to my habits. Maybe then, I could cut down on the number of times I'd have to deal with anxieties about sex, attraction and desirability. I could indulge in willful ignorance and not remind myself of the number of beautiful people out there.

Like Nolorn, I sometimes wish that I could feel asexual (I realize that I'm saying this without fully appreciating the difficulties faced by asexuals living in a hypersexual society).

Any helpful suggestions/insights are appreciated.

Thanks.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by The Wisp on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:33 pm

You seem to be predisposed to having a negative attitude towards porn, describing like you would describe a drug. You also describe regret after watching porn. I would just say that you don't have to feel these things. Porn can just be a sexual outlet for you and nothing more. We have a lot of very negative and shaming messages about porn in our culture that I think are just incorrect. Unless you're consistently watching porn for like 6 hours a day I don't see a problem with it. It's just a fantasy that lets you feel good and release some sexual tension.

On the other hand, letting go would mean that I'd be happier. Letting go means having a chance at recovering from whatever damages I've accumulated over the years thanks to my habits. Maybe then, I could cut down on the number of times I'd have to deal with anxieties about sex, attraction and desirability. I could indulge in willful ignorance and not remind myself of the number of beautiful people out there.

Could you describe in more detail what these 'damages' you refer to are?

It seems like you're blaming your insecurities on porn. Is it because you feel you don't compare to the tall big-dick muscular dudes in porn? Or is it that you can't help comparing real-life women to women in porn? Or both?

Yeah, the people in porn are "beautiful" by a certain standard. But it's all fake. It's all based on lighting and make-up and camera angles and plastic surgery and finding extreme outliers (in the case of large penises). Many women don't actually find overly muscular guys with 8 inch dicks hot. A lot of women prefer burly box-chested men, or super skinny androgynous guys, or v-shaped guys who are nonetheless not buff.

Do you not find ordinary chicks in real life attractive? If you do, why feel insecure about your looks based on what you see in porn?

It's not real, it is fantasy. It has about as much bearing on the real world as super hero movies do, and yet people seem to take porn much more seriously than super hero movies.

It's okay if you still don't want to watch porn. However, there is no shame in watching porn, and if you can clearly in your mind separate the fiction that is porn from reality, you'll be fine.

Do you find this helpful?
avatar
The Wisp

Posts : 896
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Izmuth on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:48 pm

Are you talking about physical damage to your dick due to too much masturbation?
Do you think only watching porn, and not jerking off could work to stave off anxiety and yet give your dick a chance to rest?

Chemical castration is supposed to get rid of all sexual feelings, if you're really determined. However, the health effects suck hard. And I suppose it's not easy getting your hands on some.

I tried Citalopram myself as a combi between anti-depressant and libido reducer, but it didn't have any effect sadly enough.
avatar
Izmuth

Posts : 141
Reputation : 76
Join date : 2014-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Lemminkainen on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:58 pm

I agree with Wisp that there's nothing wrong with watching porn as long as you're not doing it to the exclusion of everything else. Your sexual desires aren't inherently problematic or shameful. But your porn habit seems to be stressing you out a lot right now. Maybe you could try masturbating without using porn for a while, and see if it makes you feel better?

Lemminkainen

Posts : 143
Reputation : 58
Join date : 2014-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by BasedBuzzed on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:58 pm

We're gonna need more details. It could be worry about any of the above, or worry about testosterone levels or such.

Also, calling porn fake is a pet peeve of mine: it's an extension of the "make-up is cheating" argument. The whole lighting/make-up/acting aesthetic goes to show how mallable beauty actually is, and if that isn't encouraging, I don't know what is.

_________________
Pompeii, VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1904: "O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed that you have not already collapsed in ruin."
avatar
BasedBuzzed

Posts : 811
Reputation : 267
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by The Wisp on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:05 pm

BasedBuzzed wrote:We're gonna need more details. It could be worry about any of the above, or worry about testosterone levels or such.

Also, calling porn fake is a pet peeve of mine: it's an extension of the "make-up is cheating" argument. The whole lighting/make-up/acting aesthetic goes to show how mallable beauty actually is, and if that isn't encouraging, I don't know what is.  

Sure. I think, though, that the standards for what is beautiful in porn don't reflect the diversity of what people find attractive in other people in real life. In that sense it is, not fake, but just not reflectively of reality.
avatar
The Wisp

Posts : 896
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by IHaveToes on Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:00 pm

If you are having issues with watching porn specifically, as opposed to having issues with masturbating/sexual feelings in general, I really suggest reading porn.
Site like Literotica have a great selection of different kinks/genres, it's free, and you can make up what everyone looks like in your head.

IHaveToes

Posts : 15
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:11 pm

As long as you're not dense enough to actually think that's how real sex goes down, it shouldn't be a problem if you're not a Don Jon level addict.

Makeup and lights also tend to make people a lot better looking. Hell, I look pretty presentable with both of those things.

Porn Stars Without Makeup

Dunno if you've seen that, but it's self-explanatory. They all look like people without makeup. Very attractive people, but still people.

I dunno if this happens to women because of gender expectations and shit, but the first time I was ever attracted to a girl and I knew she wasn't wearing makeup was pretty mind-blowing, since women look so different without it. A lot of guys think they know, they don't. Women are really fucking good at hiding their physical flaws when they want to, especially since they're so freaking afraid of being seen with flaws (for good fucking reason). But the first time that ever happened to me was rather recent. Admittedly it showcased just how much of a shallow dick I was and still am.

Said girl definitely has physical flaws of her own that do not match expectations. But I also realized my growth as a person in realizing there was a contrast between media expectations and my expectations. Said girl without makeup is the most beautiful human being I've ever seen. All that fruity "inner beauty" stuff aside, her flaws basically accentuated how attracted I am to her. I dunno how else to describe it.

Yeah, I'm weirdly old-fashioned about porn. I see it as mostly abusive to both men and women (it hurts like hell to fuck for several hours straight), I see it as perpetuating gender stereotypes about both (big tits and big dicks or get the fuck out). I'm referring mostly to the Kink.com/Brazzers variety of American porn. I've seen some European stuff outta curiosity (I am that rare human being who almost never masturbates), and that stuff was a lot nicer. People in it actually looked happy to be there, Europeans tend to be better about sex overall.

But American porn? Absolutely nasty shit. I dunno. It's not even remotely realistic. It's Barbie on meth. Americans really suck at sex.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by BasedBuzzed on Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:05 pm

The euro 'natural' Met-Art-esque aesthetic is just as overplayed to a ridiculous degree as the smut aspect of America. It also glosses over the fact that the SoCal set actually has the highest number of porn actors who turn their careers into a business empire(clothing lines, taking up the photographer or director position, own lines of sex toys) and plenty of con-going solo alt models who specifically cater to the geek set(Alisa Kiss, Pattycake). Some interesting reading on the more human side of the adult industry: http://gramponante.com/ (NSFW, obviously)

_________________
Pompeii, VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1904: "O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed that you have not already collapsed in ruin."
avatar
BasedBuzzed

Posts : 811
Reputation : 267
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Lemminkainen on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:38 am

The Wisp wrote:
BasedBuzzed wrote:We're gonna need more details. It could be worry about any of the above, or worry about testosterone levels or such.

Also, calling porn fake is a pet peeve of mine: it's an extension of the "make-up is cheating" argument. The whole lighting/make-up/acting aesthetic goes to show how mallable beauty actually is, and if that isn't encouraging, I don't know what is.  

Sure. I think, though, that the standards for what is beautiful in porn don't reflect the diversity of what people find attractive in other people in real life. In that sense it is, not fake, but just not reflectively of reality.

As a person who has watched lots and lots of porn, this isn't actually true-- or at least, it's far less true of porn than it is of Hollywood movies. Women in porn tend to have a much broader variety of physiques and considerably more racial diversity that female celebrities on the whole. To a certain extent, this is a product of fetishization, but it seems like even that's getting better-- stars like Asa Akira and London Keyes do lots and lots of work which doesn't highlight their Asian-ness, for example.

Interestingly, I would say that porn aimed at heterosexual guys is worse for their body image than their imagining of women's bodies, since most male porn stars get chosen for utilitarian qualities like being able to pick up and manhandle women and having dicks that look really big on camera, so for the most part, they're dense, short (since an 11-inch cock looks way bigger on somebody who's only 5'5''), stocky, ripped guys with enormous penises, with little variation beyond that.

Lemminkainen

Posts : 143
Reputation : 58
Join date : 2014-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by The Wisp on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:14 am

Lemminkainen wrote:
The Wisp wrote:
BasedBuzzed wrote:We're gonna need more details. It could be worry about any of the above, or worry about testosterone levels or such.

Also, calling porn fake is a pet peeve of mine: it's an extension of the "make-up is cheating" argument. The whole lighting/make-up/acting aesthetic goes to show how mallable beauty actually is, and if that isn't encouraging, I don't know what is.  

Sure. I think, though, that the standards for what is beautiful in porn don't reflect the diversity of what people find attractive in other people in real life. In that sense it is, not fake, but just not reflectively of reality.

As a person who has watched lots and lots of porn, this isn't actually true-- or at least, it's far less true of porn than it is of Hollywood movies.  Women in porn tend to have a much broader variety of physiques and considerably more racial diversity that female celebrities on the whole.  To a certain extent, this is a product of fetishization, but it seems like even that's getting better-- stars like Asa Akira and London Keyes do lots and lots of work which doesn't highlight their Asian-ness, for example.  

Interestingly, I would say that porn aimed at heterosexual guys is worse for their body image than their imagining of women's bodies, since most male porn stars get chosen for utilitarian qualities like being able to pick up and manhandle women and having dicks that look really big on camera, so for the most part, they're dense, short (since an 11-inch cock looks way bigger on somebody who's only 5'5''), stocky, ripped guys with enormous penises, with little variation beyond that.

I agree that it is much better than hollywood portrayals of women, but I still think there are relatively universal unrealistic aspects: usually heavy make-up, almost always completely hairless (maybe a landing strip), almost always small tucked-in labia lips, and no acne or skin conditions. Plus, no matter what fetish they appeal to, they almost always have symmetrical, healthy-looking faces.

EDIT: Yeah, I can see how the male actors send bad messages (though I can't personally relate to feeling insecure about it).
avatar
The Wisp

Posts : 896
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:45 am

Ok, articulation isn't my strong suit so please bear with me(because it appears like I don't know what I'm going on about).

When I refer to 'porn' I'm also referring to softcore porn eg. playboy plus, digitaldesire etc. as well as pictures that aren't necessarily nude (eg. theChive, although I haven't visited the site in some years). I'm not a big fan of more theatrical porn like Brazzers etc. because of the un-realness of it all and how all the women and men are all the same. Which is why I'm mainly interested in amateur porn nowadays.

I just feel like there're more cons than pros when it comes to porn? Like how there isn't a real way to deal with 'escalation' where your threshold for arousal keeps rising (which also makes me uncomfortable as I realize that sexual attraction can often be amoral. I mean, I don't want to explore all of the dark sexual corners of the internet). Like how your mind acclimates to instant gratification?

I should've used 'unhealthy influence' instead of 'damages'. How ethical is it that I don't really care about these women outside my own pleasure and I grow tired of the same videos/ pictures I watch? What if this attitude bleeds into my interactions with women IRL? How many other harmful generalizations of women have I passively internalized? You don't treat women like condoms. What if I grow disinterested in hypothetical woman I've slept with? I feel like porn doesn't exactly help with appreciating your average woman. These are the kinds of questions I think about. I don't know if this is just a function of my tendency to believe in the worst Hermit I can be.

It's not that I lay the entirety of blame on porn for my insecurities. It's just that my dormant insecurities and anxieties about sex and my attraction to some women bubble to the surface once the endorphins wash out. That, and I feel pathetic on some days like I'm not supposed to masturbate.

I'm happy to further elaborate on any of my comments that are unclear.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by nonA on Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:57 am

I should've used 'unhealthy influence' instead of 'damages'. How ethical is it that I don't really care about these women outside my own pleasure and I grow tired of the same videos/ pictures I watch? What if this attitude bleeds into my interactions with women IRL? How many other harmful generalizations of women have I passively internalized?
If you're going to think that, at least go all the way and admit that you are in fact "a walking abortion". Since we're taking "a feminist said it" as an excuse to accept ridiculous statements uncritically.

If you want to talk about the real flaws with porn, they're rather simple. Porn consumption is primarily a solitary, sedentary activity. Solitary, sedentary activities tend not to be all that good for you, whether it's a ten hour wank-a-thon (ouch) or a ten hour video game marathon.

Focusing on the "solitary" and "sedentary" parts should help you make clear and actionable goals, as opposed to just sitting there beating yourself up over beating yourself off. Beating yourself up also tends to be largely solitary, sedentary, and profoundly unhealthy. Conversely, going out in the real world will have you interacting with plenty of real women, who will provide counterexamples to all the hot ones you occasionally jerk off to.

nonA

Posts : 72
Reputation : 28
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Hirundo Bos on Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:39 am

Hmh. I have the almost opposite take on masturbation (with or without porn). I don't think it will make me less sensitive to the other person's individuality, once I meet someone. Rather, it will make me more confident that I don't just see this person as a vehicle for pleasure or relief, since I know can get both those things on my own.
avatar
Hirundo Bos

Posts : 534
Reputation : 288
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile http://abouthirundo.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Mel on Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:39 am

nonA wrote:
I should've used 'unhealthy influence' instead of 'damages'. How ethical is it that I don't really care about these women outside my own pleasure and I grow tired of the same videos/ pictures I watch? What if this attitude bleeds into my interactions with women IRL? How many other harmful generalizations of women have I passively internalized?
If you're going to think that, at least go all the way and admit that you are in fact "a walking abortion".  Since we're taking "a feminist said it" as an excuse to accept ridiculous statements uncritically.

Um, nonA, there is actually quite a lot of research-based evidence that shows that watching imagery that dehumanizes women affects the viewer's attitudes toward women. Obviously not all porn dehumanizes women, but if Hermit finds he is looking at stuff where the woman is mainly treated as an object (which quite a bit of it does), then it's a totally legit concern.

(And, BTW, deciding a statement is "ridiculous" simply because it sounds to you like something a feminist would say isn't exactly thinking about things critically either. Razz )

Hermit, I don't have a lot of experience with porn personally (I prefer written erotica to visual if my imagination isn't enough), so others here can probably advise you better in terms of specifics, but I wonder if seeking out porn that treats its participants like people--maybe a little more human interaction before/during the sex, for example--would help mitigate some of these concerns?

I will say I don't think you need to worry that watching porn will make you unable to stay interested in an actual woman. For one, an actual woman, unless your relationship is only about sex, is going to have other things going on that attract you to her, and also the two of you can do all sorts of different things together during sex, not just one set of actions over and over. And it's also important to remember that it's normal for an ongoing relationship to evolve and the excitement phase to peter out, regardless of whether you've watched porn or not, and that's something everyone learns to deal with.
avatar
Mel
Roving Moderator

Posts : 317
Reputation : 182
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by reboot on Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:56 am

This is going to sound a little odd, but perhaps try swapping out some porn viewing for erotica? Because it is written, you end up having POV through some of the characters, often women which might mitigate the dehumanization that can occur with still images of the bad dialogue of porn.
avatar
reboot
Moderator of "Other Relationships" and "Gender, Identity and Society"

Posts : 2514
Reputation : 1005
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Enail on Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:15 pm

<mod>  NonA, your comments on the new forum have been rather tending to push the line; you've been snide to other commenters, dismissive of points of view and preferences you don't share, and shoehorning in jibes at feminism and related viewpoints whenever you can. Please consider this a warning that a pattern of this kind of behavior is quite enough to earn mod action, whether or not you ever cross an official line in a specific comment. I didn't consider you a problem member on the old forum, and I hope that I won't have to on this one - we're not willing to have as much tolerance for problem members as we used to. Please rein it in a little. Thanks! </mod>
avatar
Enail
Admin

Posts : 3152
Reputation : 1471
Join date : 2014-09-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Suika on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:21 pm

As a person that has gone from desperate to uninterested, I can say that it's far more convenient as you say, but I also find myself with feelings of helplessness, because I know that it's just a veneer to protect my ego. If I ever were to want something like sex or a partner, I'd have neither the means nor the power to do so.
avatar
Suika

Posts : 73
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by azazel on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:43 pm

Mel wrote:

Um, nonA, there is actually quite a lot of research-based evidence that shows that watching imagery that dehumanizes women affects the viewer's attitudes toward women.  Obviously not all porn dehumanizes women, but if Hermit finds he is looking at stuff where the woman is mainly treated as an object (which quite a bit of it does), then it's a totally legit concern.

(And, BTW, deciding a statement is "ridiculous" simply because it sounds to you like something a feminist would say isn't exactly thinking about things critically either.  Razz  )

Hermit, I don't have a lot of experience with porn personally (I prefer written erotica to visual if my imagination isn't enough), so others here can probably advise you better in terms of specifics, but I wonder if seeking out porn that treats its participants like people--maybe a little more human interaction before/during the sex, for example--would help mitigate some of these concerns?

I will say I don't think you need to worry that watching porn will make you unable to stay interested in an actual woman.  For one, an actual woman, unless your relationship is only about sex, is going to have other things going on that attract you to her, and also the two of you can do all sorts of different things together during sex, not just one set of actions over and over.  And it's also important to remember that it's normal for an ongoing relationship to evolve and the excitement phase to peter out, regardless of whether you've watched porn or not, and that's something everyone learns to deal with.

Could you provide some of that "research based evidence"? Tbh, it sounds as sketchy to me as videogames causing violence.

I could see it influencing people predisposed to believing women aren't people. But Hermit is not suddenly going to turn into a sexist jerk just by watching the wrong porn and accidentally getting brainwashed in the process.

azazel

Posts : 136
Reputation : 37
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Mel on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:14 pm

azazel wrote:Could you provide some of that "research based evidence"? Tbh, it sounds as sketchy to me as videogames causing violence.

I could see it influencing people predisposed to believing women aren't people. But Hermit is not suddenly going to turn into a sexist jerk just by watching the wrong porn and accidentally getting brainwashed in the process.

I think you're dismissing the entire idea by expressing it in an exaggerated way, when the effect I'm talking about is more subtle. No, watching porn isn't going to "brainwash" someone into becoming a "sexist jerk". It can, however, nudge your attitudes about women to be somewhat more sexist than they were before. (Just as, news flash, watching a lot of violent imagery does in fact desensitize one to violence to some extent, even if it doesn't outright cause shooting sprees or the like.) It's also been found that what you watch when you're getting off, in general, creates increased connections between that imagery/content and your arousal, so that you are more likely to become aroused, and/or may become more aroused, by the same material in future. So, for example, if you watch a lot of porn in which women are humiliated, even if it's not the humiliation that initially makes you aroused, you're starting an association between the two and over time may find women being humiliated provokes physical arousal... which is obviously going to interfere with your concern for a woman being treated that way.

Kleenestar may be better aware of sources than I am, but here's what a little google searching found me:

Men who scored low on agreeableness--in general, not specifically toward women--had an increase in hostile sexist attitudes after viewing hardcore porn.

Men repeatedly exposed to porn were more aggressive toward women afterward than those who weren't.

This meta-analysis of several studies found clear evidence of a link between exposure to pornography and various harmful attitudes about women.

I mean, this is pretty basic psychology. If you see something over and over, and associate it with something positive (like arousal), then you're likely to start unconsciously responding to it as being more normal and okay than you did before. Again, we're not talking about a huge effect, but it's still something it'd be reasonable for someone to want to avoid.
avatar
Mel
Roving Moderator

Posts : 317
Reputation : 182
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by The Wisp on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:59 pm

Mel wrote:
azazel wrote:Could you provide some of that "research based evidence"? Tbh, it sounds as sketchy to me as videogames causing violence.

I could see it influencing people predisposed to believing women aren't people. But Hermit is not suddenly going to turn into a sexist jerk just by watching the wrong porn and accidentally getting brainwashed in the process.

I think you're dismissing the entire idea by expressing it in an exaggerated way, when the effect I'm talking about is more subtle.  No, watching porn isn't going to "brainwash" someone into becoming a "sexist jerk".  It can, however, nudge your attitudes about women to be somewhat more sexist than they were before.  (Just as, news flash, watching a lot of violent imagery does in fact desensitize one to violence to some extent, even if it doesn't outright cause shooting sprees or the like.) It's also been found that what you watch when you're getting off, in general, creates increased connections between that imagery/content and your arousal, so that you are more likely to become aroused, and/or may become more aroused, by the same material in future.  So, for example, if you watch a lot of porn in which women are humiliated, even if it's not the humiliation that initially makes you aroused, you're starting an association between the two and over time may find women being humiliated provokes physical arousal... which is obviously going to interfere with your concern for a woman being treated that way.

But, is there anything inherently wrong with this? As long as you have a partner who consents who gets off on being humiliated, or being hurt, or having an aggressive partner, then what's the problem?
avatar
The Wisp

Posts : 896
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2014-10-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Mel on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:14 pm

The Wisp wrote:But, is there anything inherently wrong with this? As long as you have a partner who consents who gets off on being humiliated, or being hurt, or having an aggressive partner, then what's the problem?

Because those feelings aren't restricted to what you're doing in the bedroom or to your current sexual partner?  If your attitudes toward women become more aggressive or whatever, that's going to affect your views of every situation you're in that involves any woman.  In the second experiment, for example, the men showed aggression toward a woman they didn't know in a laboratory situation.

Also, if you're not conscious of your attitudes, you may end up interacting with your partner in problematic ways because you're not thinking, Hey, I'd like to find someone to be aggressive with, you just end up assuming acting a particular way is okay and having trouble understanding why your partner isn't into it if they don't happen to be.

Edit: To clarify, I don't think there is anything wrong with making a decision to engage in consensual aggression, humiliation, etc. in the bedroom. But we're talking about an effect that's more broad and less considered than that.
avatar
Mel
Roving Moderator

Posts : 317
Reputation : 182
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Lemminkainen on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:25 pm

Mel wrote:

I think you're dismissing the entire idea by expressing it in an exaggerated way, when the effect I'm talking about is more subtle.  No, watching porn isn't going to "brainwash" someone into becoming a "sexist jerk".  It can, however, nudge your attitudes about women to be somewhat more sexist than they were before.  (Just as, news flash, watching a lot of violent imagery does in fact desensitize one to violence to some extent, even if it doesn't outright cause shooting sprees or the like.) It's also been found that what you watch when you're getting off, in general, creates increased connections between that imagery/content and your arousal, so that you are more likely to become aroused, and/or may become more aroused, by the same material in future.  So, for example, if you watch a lot of porn in which women are humiliated, even if it's not the humiliation that initially makes you aroused, you're starting an association between the two and over time may find women being humiliated provokes physical arousal... which is obviously going to interfere with your concern for a woman being treated that way.

Kleenestar may be better aware of sources than I am, but here's what a little google searching found me:

Men who scored low on agreeableness--in general, not specifically toward women--had an increase in hostile sexist attitudes after viewing hardcore porn.

Men repeatedly exposed to porn were more aggressive toward women afterward than those who weren't.

This meta-analysis of several studies found clear evidence of a link between exposure to pornography and various harmful attitudes about women.

I mean, this is pretty basic psychology.  If you see something over and over, and associate it with something positive (like arousal), then you're likely to start unconsciously responding to it as being more normal and okay than you did before. Again, we're not talking about a huge effect, but it's still something it'd be reasonable for someone to want to avoid.

Yo, this is valid psychological research, but we need to be more careful about drawing longer-term conclusions from it. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/24/streetlight-psychology/

As this essay points out, there are a bunch of short-term priming effects, but establishing that a stimulus primes certain responses in the short term doesn't tell us that it causes any long term changes in behavior or attitudes. In fact, often the unpleasant social behaviors being investigated have declined at the same time that the stimulus has become more available-- the past few decades have seen violent video games become significantly more popular in the US and seen a huge drop in the US violent crime rate. Similarly, legalizing porn and prostitution has been shown to reduce the incidence of rape and sexual assault in a variety of jurisdictions. Of course, it's possible that these changes are coincidental or caused by a confounding variable-- it's just that we can't actually easily draw a straight line from short-term priming effects to long-term social behaviors.

Lemminkainen

Posts : 143
Reputation : 58
Join date : 2014-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Mel on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:53 pm

Look, I'm not trying to say that watching porn definitely has a major long term effect on all people. Hermit expressed concern that it might affect his attitudes, nonA mocked the idea that this is possible, and I pointed out that research suggests there is at least some effect, which means it's a reasonable thing to be concerned about. My primary purpose in bringing it up was to support Hermit, not to get into a debate about the exact extent of the possible effects (which I completely agree we don't know).

<mod>I think continuing to discuss the possible effects of porn in general is derailing from the discussion of Hermit's specific concerns. If people want to continue discussing that from a broader perspective, you're welcome to start a new thread on the subject.</mod>
avatar
Mel
Roving Moderator

Posts : 317
Reputation : 182
Join date : 2014-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: [vent] Inconvenient sexual feelings.

Post by Enail on Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:26 pm

Well said, Mel.

Moving back on-topic, Hermit, it sounds like, although you're uncomfortable with how your sexual feelings currently work with the rest of your life and the way your habits may affect your mindset, you also get a lot of genuine enjoyment from them. Jumping off of what others have suggested about switching up visual porn with written porn, maybe it would be a good idea to try experimenting with enjoying your sexuality in different ways as well. That could could be things like challenging yourself to get off on the inspiration of imagination only, varying your masturbation style, paying attention to non-masturbatory physical sensations and seeing how you react sexually to them, sex toys...  

If you're worried about the effects porn might have on you and want to reduce it, that doesn't mean you have to give up everything you enjoy about it. Maybe experiencing sex in different ways could shake up some of the associations and attitudes you're concerned about.
avatar
Enail
Admin

Posts : 3152
Reputation : 1471
Join date : 2014-09-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum