[Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

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[Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by Izmuth on Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:33 pm

So... my friends have discovered Cards against Humanity, seemingly independent from each other and yet at the same time.

https://cardsagainsthumanity.com/

And... I do not enjoy playing it. I might be missing the point, but the casual racism/sexism/classism the game expects of you is turning me off completely.

But, since it's so popular and I'm conflict averse, I've not yet made my feelings know because I'm sure I'll be told "to lighten up" and not be so "politically correct", because "it's just a joke game".

Anyone know how to politely say that the game isn't for me? (Bonus points if somebody has advice how to tell them they should reconsider their love for the game without sounding preachy.)
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by eselle28 on Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:08 pm

I enjoy the game myself (while realizing it's problematic), so I can't help with the second question. I know someone who hates it and who isn't willing to either play it or be around other people playing it, though. Her explanation was something along the lines of, "I know it makes you guys laugh, but that kind of humor makes me really uncomfortable. I can't have fun playing, and I'll probably make it less fun for everyone else if I try." As far as I know, no one's really put pressure on her to play since then. It's not like the game requires an exact number of players, so it's easier to opt out of than it is with something like bridge or a game that needs big teams like Cranium.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by BasedBuzzed on Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:09 pm

There are tons of variations of the game, say that the edginess is getting repetitive and then opt for a custom set without problematic cards.

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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by Caffeinated on Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:06 pm

I think that it's only a good idea to make an official objection if you want to get into that discussion. I'd go with more of a redirect, like "I'm kind of tired of CAH, how about playing [this other game] instead?"

Of course, if someone in the group is dead set on playing, a redirect might not work. But if it's just something that's suggested because no one has a better idea, then providing a better idea usually works.

ETA: Or, if you want to bring up your discomfort with the racism/sexism/classism/general grossness without having to bring up a real life argument, you could link to an online article about the grossness on Facebook or whatever social media you may share with people you play games with. Kind of put the idea out there so other people might be on the same page when you get to game night.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by nearly_takuan on Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:14 pm

One day I responded to a CAH invite with something like "...y'know, I'm not so sure self-awareness is really enough to make problematic stuff okay again," and they (being liberal dorks like myself) got what I meant and just played without me.

YMMV; I had some context working on my side: I had already played a bunch with this group previously, and they knew my habits. I'd make lots of sex jokes on other people's turns, but never pick one on my own turn if there were other options (if there weren't, I'd still avoid rape "jokes"), so they probably knew where I stood on that subject but also didn't see me as a prude. Meanwhile, I'd generally avoid racist humor in my own plays but almost auto-pick any Asian-stereotype joke if it was even moderately relevant. Probably that helped make it look less self-serving when I decided to decline.

A less permanent but also more general-case script might be "eh, it's not really my thing" or "I'm not really up for that kind of humor tonight, but maybe Apples To Apples?"
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by readertorider on Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:12 pm

I don't like CAH and friends know that and don't ask me to play often. Usually a "no, thanks" suffices (and I sometimes spend the time talking to other people or asleep, depending). I also do play about twice a year because it appears to be one friend's favorite game, it is a very easy game to play for things like birthday parties, and, through a combination of factors, it has grown a bit on me with the right people.

Don't know that there is any good way to tell someone to 'go home and reconsider your preferences' unless you're a jedi master and/or someone's asking you for advice, especially when it's something like CAD/"It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia"/"South Park" when quite a bit depends on people's sense of humor and where they draw the 'edgy'/'offensive' line.

I think you can definitely say something along the lines of "I don't like CAD. <one sentence of because><shrug>" though, which may stick in friends' minds and start to sink in once the novelty wears off, but a treatise on why CAD is bad (and they are misguided for liking it) doesn't seem like it would gain much traction to me--it's hard to argue with preferences or senses of humor.

Edit: nearly_takuan's line is pretty awesome.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by kath on Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:12 pm

Also, if you can find a different game to play that is more fun, you could suggest something else and suggest playing something new. Aside from being problematic, I found it got boring pretty quickly, and you could use that as Supporting Evidence. Like, what is going to be shocking is not very shocking.

If they are trying to out-jaded-cool-guy you, acting like you are jaded about how shocking it is might be a card to give you cool++ (not that that's necessarily the dynamic you are working with).
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by nearly_takuan on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:16 pm

Having pondered a bit longer, I would also say examine and hypothesize about your group's motivations for playing the game. I get the feeling people in my friend-group (which consists of a lot of feminist liberal-thinker socially-conscious sex-positive/sexually-open types) have prejudicial/problematic thoughts from time to time but don't give themselves permission to acknowledge them or talk about them openly. (First thought: "doesn't everyone have prejudicial thoughts sometimes?"; second thought: "...maybe not? Maybe I'm just gross?"; third thought: "maybe other people feel like this too"; ad infinitum.) Mix in our particular community's Guilty Feelings about being white-collared white people (not a group I exclude myself from) living in the whitest city in a white-dominated country, and gentrifying the immediate neighborhood to boot... there's a lot of Problematic getting bottled up and nowhere for it to go. CAH might be their release: they give themselves permission to be outrageously sexist, to make jokes about rape and pedosexual deeds, and also to acknowledge up-front "the way white people is" and pat each other on the back for being able to recognize that the Indian Removal Act was a crappy thing for our country to have done.

It's also a thing to do that can theoretically include all 14 of the people who are still at the party and awake and silly-drunk that doesn't require a great deal of coordination or strategy (but rewards some).

If the first paragraph applies to your friend-group, then subtly calling attention to the more judgmental and problematic themes of the "game" may help them understand the why of your decision not to play and bring a few of them around. If the second does, then finding alternative large-party style games (Taboo, Family Feud, whatever) may be helpful. Maybe invent or house-rule a trivia game. I've been thinking about getting an arduino board to turn into a karaoke machine for similar purposes. YMMV, again. If you come to a different conclusion about why your friends keep going back to CAH, maybe someone here can help troubleshoot that particular motivation?
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by Izmuth on Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:19 am

Thanks for your responses y'all!

To be honest, I normally control which games to play. I've got the largest collection, that fits the largest number of groups you can think of. (I can safely accommodate 2 players to large parties with several games). In my friend groups it's a running joke just to app me to "remember to bring the 'stuff'" as I'm a Dealer of Games.

Which is why, now they have a game, it seems so petty of me not to want to play.

But I think I have at least now a script to politely decline.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by reboot on Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:22 pm

I ordered Exploding Kittens because I love the Oatmeal and do not like CAH so that I can sub it in if needed. It has the advantage of being a little twisted in a whole different way, so there is still an edge. Luckily most of my friends are not OK with the sexism, racism, etc in CAH but on occasion their friends or friends of friends are not on the same page and there is nothing worse than games devolving into shouting matches
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by BasedBuzzed on Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:02 pm

reboot wrote:I ordered Exploding Kittens because I love the Oatmeal and do not like CAH so that I can sub it in if needed. It has the advantage of being a little twisted in a whole different way, so there is still an edge. Luckily most of my friends are not OK with the sexism, racism, etc in CAH but on occasion their friends or friends of friends are not on the same page and there is nothing worse than games devolving into shouting matches

Does Overweight Bikini Cat count as fatshaming?

Anyway, I also dug up this: http://www.rachelrayner.co.nz/2013/09/feminist-cards-against-humanity.html

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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by reboot on Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:24 pm

Cats do not much care if they are shamed. They have contempt for us anyway.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by skullbearer on Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:46 pm

nearly_takuan wrote:Having pondered a bit longer, I would also say examine and hypothesize about your group's motivations for playing the game. I get the feeling people in my friend-group (which consists of a lot of feminist liberal-thinker socially-conscious sex-positive/sexually-open types) have prejudicial/problematic thoughts from time to time but don't give themselves permission to acknowledge them or talk about them openly. (First thought: "doesn't everyone have prejudicial thoughts sometimes?"; second thought: "...maybe not? Maybe I'm just gross?"; third thought: "maybe other people feel like this too"; ad infinitum.) Mix in our particular community's Guilty Feelings about being white-collared white people (not a group I exclude myself from) living in the whitest city in a white-dominated country, and gentrifying the immediate neighborhood to boot... there's a lot of Problematic getting bottled up and nowhere for it to go. CAH might be their release: they give themselves permission to be outrageously sexist, to make jokes about rape and pedosexual deeds, and also to acknowledge up-front "the way white people is" and pat each other on the back for being able to recognize that the Indian Removal Act was a crappy thing for our country to have done.

Here's one thought; this is why I stopped liking CAH- If the answer cards were blank, and you had to write this racist/sexist/etc stuff down yourself, would the game be the same?

It wouldn't be. Because we wouldn't be okay saying that. Because the cards are saying it, not us. Because we're cowards.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by nearly_takuan on Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:55 pm

Izmuth wrote:To be honest, I normally control which games to play. I've got the largest collection, that fits the largest number of groups you can think of. (I can safely accommodate 2 players to large parties with several games). In my friend groups it's a running joke just to app me to "remember to bring the 'stuff'" as I'm a Dealer of Games.

Which is why, now they have a game, it seems so petty of me not to want to play.

It's a little self-serving (and potentially pricey), but maybe pick out suitable games as gifts for each of the party-host types among your friends, to be given the next time a gift-giving opportunity presents itself (housewarming, anniversary, wedding, birthday, holiday). If too self-serving or awkward, give the game in addition to whatever you (or someone else) would "normally" have given them in observance of the event.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by BasedBuzzed on Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:22 pm

skullbearer wrote:
nearly_takuan wrote:Having pondered a bit longer, I would also say examine and hypothesize about your group's motivations for playing the game. I get the feeling people in my friend-group (which consists of a lot of feminist liberal-thinker socially-conscious sex-positive/sexually-open types) have prejudicial/problematic thoughts from time to time but don't give themselves permission to acknowledge them or talk about them openly. (First thought: "doesn't everyone have prejudicial thoughts sometimes?"; second thought: "...maybe not? Maybe I'm just gross?"; third thought: "maybe other people feel like this too"; ad infinitum.) Mix in our particular community's Guilty Feelings about being white-collared white people (not a group I exclude myself from) living in the whitest city in a white-dominated country, and gentrifying the immediate neighborhood to boot... there's a lot of Problematic getting bottled up and nowhere for it to go. CAH might be their release: they give themselves permission to be outrageously sexist, to make jokes about rape and pedosexual deeds, and also to acknowledge up-front "the way white people is" and pat each other on the back for being able to recognize that the Indian Removal Act was a crappy thing for our country to have done.

Here's one thought; this is why I stopped liking CAH- If the answer cards were blank, and you had to write this racist/sexist/etc stuff down yourself, would the game be the same?

It wouldn't be. Because we wouldn't be okay saying that. Because the cards are saying it, not us. Because we're cowards.

Looking at the cards, this is absolutely mild stuff: https://sarahamorrison.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/cah-problematic.jpg
I post way worse jokes about these topics to FB all the time, which get likes from both peeps who are in said groups or who vote for the local equivalent of the Green Party, which is about as left as you can get here. Dutch/student culture probably has insulated some of these people to the offense(or we're hopelessly behind in intersectionality compared to America), or perhaps there's something about the way I'm phrasing it(I'm probably cruder in ribbing on DNL Prime? I dunno), but if you get your friends into such a setting with blank cards while they regularly play it, they will make up more outrageous stuff, I'd wager.

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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by reboot on Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:28 am

BasedBuzzed wrote:...

Looking at the cards, this is absolutely mild stuff: https://sarahamorrison.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/cah-problematic.jpg
I post way worse jokes about these topics to FB all the time, which get likes from both peeps who are in said groups or who vote for the local equivalent of the Green Party, which is about as left as you can get here. Dutch/student culture probably has insulated some of these people to the offense(or we're hopelessly behind in intersectionality compared to America), or perhaps there's something about the way I'm phrasing it(I'm probably cruder in ribbing on DNL Prime? I dunno), but if you get your friends into such a setting with blank cards while they regularly play it, they will make up more outrageous stuff, I'd wager.

So you know a lot or Rwandans? Or members of tribes? The people I know from both groups would not find any jokes about their genocide particularly funny, but it would be situationally dependent if they called someone in it or kept silent.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by eselle28 on Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:42 am

BasedBuzzed wrote:
Looking at the cards, this is absolutely mild stuff: https://sarahamorrison.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/cah-problematic.jpg
I post way worse jokes about these topics to FB all the time, which get likes from both peeps who are in said groups or who vote for the local equivalent of the Green Party, which is about as left as you can get here. Dutch/student culture probably has insulated some of these people to the offense(or we're hopelessly behind in intersectionality compared to America), or perhaps there's something about the way I'm phrasing it(I'm probably cruder in ribbing on DNL Prime? I dunno), but if you get your friends into such a setting with blank cards while they regularly play it, they will make up more outrageous stuff, I'd wager.

It sounds like you enjoy humor that might offend other people, though, and it sounds like you spend much of your time having confrontational discussions about sensitive topics. I suspect that may have a screening effect, and that regardless of politics, your friends may be more amused by offensive humor than some other people's.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by BasedBuzzed on Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:02 am

Rwandans, no. But Jewish folks, Surinam folks, assault victims, Americans, neuroatypical folks and people who have had suicidal episodes. eselle is right that there's a heavy screening effect even on top of the ones I've mentioned, and they're really not shy about dopeslaps in case they do find it not amusing. If that's the case, it's curious how far it stretches to people who are relatively new or encountered in a setting in which I only know one friend so the afraid-to-speak-up-due-to-peer-pressure doesn't apply. I dunno, there are a bazillion cushion effects I can think of but it's probably a mix.

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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by Nerdator on Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:27 am


'Daniel Radcliffe's delicious arsehole.'

Shocked Looking at this game has certainly left an impression.
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by reboot on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:35 am

BasedBuzzed wrote:Rwandans, no. But Jewish folks, Surinam folks, assault victims, Americans, neuroatypical folks and people who have had suicidal episodes. eselle is right that there's a heavy screening effect even on top of the ones I've mentioned, and they're really not shy about dopeslaps in case they do find it not amusing. If that's the case, it's curious how far it stretches to people who are relatively new or encountered in a setting in which I only know one friend so the afraid-to-speak-up-due-to-peer-pressure doesn't apply. I dunno, there are a bazillion cushion effects I can think of but it's probably a mix.

Level of knowkedge of your audience is definitely key.  It also depends on if you crack jokes about a group you do not know anyone from or are not aware someone is from. Personally, I stay away from these types of jokes because I do not find them funny, edgy, or cool, just ignorant, but that is just IMO. And I am good at cracking jokes about other topics, so why try and get laughs with genocide?


Last edited by reboot on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [Adv] Being a political correct stick-in-the-mud

Post by Enail on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:27 am

When I've played it, the fun largely rests on knowing that you're on the same page as the other people in terms of recognizing how terrible it is, and people generally only use the ones touching a particular group if they're part of that group. I would be really uncomfortable playing it with people I didn't know very well or who I suspected felt differently from me about what's terrible and why.
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