Politics and Current Events

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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:42 am

I think it says something about political discourse when, after a Leader's Debate on the Economy between the three major party leaders in Canada, the major things we came out of it with are the sound of an egg-timer going off and the question "What's an Old Stock Canadian?"
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by reboot on Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:41 am

Is an OldStock Canadian a First Nation member? I am kind of guessing that is not what they meant Smile
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:45 am

I've never heard the phrase before, but I took it to mean White European because Harper said it, and it was contrasted with "New Stock", all while the subject was on refugees Uh-oh
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by reboot on Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:50 am

bomaye wrote:I've never heard the phrase before, but I took it to mean White European because Harper said it, and it was contrasted with "New Stock", all while the subject was on refugees Uh-oh

So basically immigrants like all the other not First Nation people in Canada. It is nice to know your bigots are just as lame as our bigots Smile
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Enail on Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:56 am

You have a strange definition of "nice" Razz
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:46 pm

Canadian racism is sneaky under-the-rug. We put our pinkies up every time the Americans have another race riot and congratulate ourselves for being above that, and then ignore the question of "Why are all these Aboriginal women being murdered?" (or really, "Natives? What natives?") and blame rising housing costs on "Foreign Speculators" (code-speak for Rich Chinese, and as opposed to Rich White Speculators, it's perfectly fine if they sit on empty houses and empty apartments so they can flip them later or rent them out) even though there's no concrete information being collected on what's exactly happening with that Uh-oh

But yeah, OLD STOCK REPRESENT (unless that means being a WASP, in which case, my stock might be polluted on account of being two generations removed from Italian Roman Catholicism)
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:36 pm

Harper defined it today as the descendants of immigrants for one or more generations.

Apparently in Quebec it's a phrase used to mean people who descend specifically from the British Isles.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Enail on Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:02 pm

I doubt he intended it to read so strongly racist/anti-immigrant as it did even if that's what he really meant, it's rare for him to make a slip-up of phrasing like that and carelessly reveal things he doesn't want to.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Werel on Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:31 pm

"Old Stock Canadian" just sounds like a bottom-shelf whiskey brand.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:21 pm

Enail wrote:I doubt he intended it to read so strongly racist/anti-immigrant as it did even if that's what he really meant, it's rare for him to make a slip-up of phrasing like that and carelessly reveal things he doesn't want to.

That part of the electorate does make up part of his base, though. I'm not sure that's a flub.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Enail on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:33 pm

It could be an intentional change in messaging, but he's usually tried to squash that kind of talk up till now, so it'd be a shift.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:42 pm

I don't think of it as a change in message as much as a wink/wink kind of deal while they were on the subject of refugees, the thing that makes those specific types nervous. Kind of like how they aren't openly anti-gay marriage but instead support "the traditional definition of marriage" or something backhandedly tame like that.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Enail on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:53 pm

It just seems a bit more open than how they usually do it.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Wondering on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:59 pm

Werel wrote:"Old Stock Canadian" just sounds like a bottom-shelf whiskey brand.

Yeah, I thought it was going to be a cologne or something like Old Spice. But with Mounties.

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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by kath on Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:09 pm

I sort of thought (and I was out so I just saw clips, I should go watch it) that it was one of those times where your thought phrases things the sort of way you generally would (so like, he was probably thinking primarily of white people), but normally he would take a few more seconds before letting it come out of his mouth in which he would have used "Canadian citizens" (or something) instead.  When I've heard that topic discussed before, I've heard it phrased "but we shouldn't be giving non-citizens better healthcare than citizens" and I'm always like "clearly I miss the technicality that automatically means the healthcare would be 'better', and the reason we can't improve healthcare in general so Canadians would also get whatever 'improvement' refugees / non-citizens would get ..." - is there like a place where what that's even about is explained? Because money?

I also don't get why there's a reason (even from Harper's POV) to distinguish "Canadians of 1+ generations" from "Canadians" in this discussion about care for refugees.

So I think the phrasing / distinction must have been a slip. It's not like "old-stock Canadians" / party-faithful would have been upset if he had just said "Canadians", right? Is this a thing I don't know about? So instead of just making a comment about whether we should be compassionate to refugees, there's also some extra (oh no! Really not! Seriously!) racism now ... don't see how that is at all beneficial.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:38 am

Maybe a mis-speak, because I'm not sure how the refugees get "better" health care either

Or maybe the fact that they're refugees means they'll get looked at quicker than a normal Canadian?
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by kath on Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:43 am

Maybe? I've heard that part of the comment before ("can't give refugees* better healthcare than Canadians"), so that's why I thought it was like, a thing that the Conservative party thinks is possible?

*and then there's the bit where they talk about giving "bogus refugees" the same healthcare as Canadians.

Oh, I found this: http://www.doctorsforrefugeecare.ca/the-issue.html (which is obviously a source with an opinion about this issue)

Maybe it would be better than "the average Canadian would have access to" because of "access to medical care, diagnostic services and laboratory testing very similar to what is provided by provincial health plans" PLUS "It also provided access to medications, emergency dental care and vision care similar to what is available to people on provincial social assistance plans" - the average Canadian not being on social assistance?

And the changes in 2012 took away a lot of that access (to both things) in various cases.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:12 am

Hrm, so they did actually get better health care than the average Canadian, but only for a limited amount of time.

Conservative ideology, I'd say. And maybe a bit of "let the Provinces handle it" because the Feds love nothing more than downloading excess costs on the provinces.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by reboot on Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:42 am

bomaye wrote:Hrm, so they did actually get better health care than the average Canadian, but only for a limited amount of time.

Conservative ideology, I'd say. And maybe a bit of "let the Provinces handle it" because the Feds love nothing more than downloading excess costs on the provinces.

And if you consider the health conditions many refugees arrive affected by, it is logical to give them as good of health care as possible for a period to wrap up any TB, hepatitis A, and to do a bunch of screenings. Refugee camps are prime places for disease transmission due to close quarters and inadequate sanitation. The extra health care is less for the refugees and more for the community.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Wondering on Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:37 pm

I have to admit, I don't get why the locus of the refugee crisis right now is focused on Hungary. I get that they are fleeing and want badly to get into (Western) Europe. But why Serbia/Hungary? Why not Romania/Hungary? Or Slovenia/Austria? Or any number of other ways to get into Western Europe by land via Turkey?

Or is it just that our American media is focusing on Hungary and so that's all I hear about?

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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:31 am

The Oregon Shooter seems to have posted on 4chan sub-board r9k that he was going to do it beforehand

I never saw the thread, but I've been to r9k often enough that I could probably tell you more about his mindset than the media groping to figure it out. I remember even thinking a few months ago "this place is getting kinda scary..." :/
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by Wondering on Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:57 am

My understanding is that he didn't just post there but that they goaded him on and even cheered after he did it.

So, gamergate is too much for 4chan, but mass murder isn't, apparently.

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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by bomaye on Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:11 am

I wouldn't call it goading so much as a combination of "like attracts like" and trolls gonna troll.
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by reboot on Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:22 am

bomaye wrote:I wouldn't call it goading so much as a combination of "like attracts like" and trolls gonna troll.

And shooters gonna shoot. In the USat least
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Re: Politics and Current Events

Post by BasedBuzzed on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:14 am

Archived thread seems the usual 1/3 memes, 1/3 encouragement, 1/3 dissuasion before it all dissolves into a we're-on-the-news-droolfest: https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/#22785729

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Re: Politics and Current Events

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