Dating problems

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Post by Dannyboy on Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:22 am

Alright, this involves the girl that I mentioned in the last thread I posted, if you read that.

Anyway, tonight I was talking to her and we were flirting. She texted me if maybe we could meet up after her work shift ended on Tuesday, and I agreed. Then I texted something about how I was worried about not meeting her expectations, and she asked me why I wouldn't. It was then that I told her that I was a virgin. Of course she texts me back saying that I shouldn't lose it to her, that I deserve better. Obviously, I thought she was dumping me and just trying to let me down easy, and I told her that losing my virginity wasn't a big deal to me, but that I understood if she wanted a guy with more experience.

That when she told me about the time she was raped when she 16 years old. She told me that she'd been having sex with guys in order to feel sexual pleasure, and then leaving them before they could leave her. She told me I deserved more than "a filthy, worthless slut". I responded by telling her I didn't care about how many men she had sex with, that I honestly thought she was cute and wonderful (she works with mentally disabled people and is just sweet in general), but that I understood if she wasn't interested in being in a relationship right now. She told me that she'd be willing to try, and agreed to keep our Sunday date.

i'm really conflicted. On one hand shes and extremely sweet and interesting girl who's into creative writing and classic literature and Game o Thrones. She's also really cute too ( I saw some pictures of her on facebook, she really does look nice). On the other hand, I'm not interested in a one night stand and I'm not sure if I'm mature enough to deal with a relationship involving rape trauma. I really want to meet her, but I'm not sure if she's been playing me. I want to be happy, but I've grown so close to her, I really don't want to hurt her.

This whole thing makes me want to drink. I just want a girlfriend. I thought that I had formed a real connection with a girl who thought I was cute. I just want to go into a cave and spend the rest of my life away from everyone else!

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Post by reboot on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:25 am

Just meet her. It is not like a single IRL meetup beholdens you to any specific type of relationship or any relationship at all. Yes, you might hurt her if you date, and she might hurt you. You might not be able to handle rape trauma. She might not be able to handle a recovering alcoholic. Or you both might be fine with everything. You cannot know unless you date and you cannot date until you meet IRL.
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Post by Enail on Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:21 pm

It sounds like you have formed a real connection with a girl who thinks you're cute. Even if you decide that her issues are not something you can handle in a relationship, or vice versa, or if you turn out not to get on in person, it doesn't change that first sentence.

Give the date a try if you feel up to it. But pay attention to your own well-being. If your worries about her trauma are threatening your recovery, or if you feel like she's asking more of you than you're able to give, or if you don't feel she's genuinely up for anything other than a one-night-stand and you don't want that, it's okay to call things off at any point. Everyone's got baggage, and that doesn't automatically mean someone can't have a healthy, caring relationship, but not everyone's baggage will go with yours, and that's no one's fault.
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Post by Werel on Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:21 am

Enail wrote:It sounds like you have formed a real connection with a girl who thinks you're cute. Even if you decide that her issues are not something you can handle in a relationship, or vice versa, or if you turn out not to get on in person, it doesn't change that first sentence.

Very much this.

Nthing "just go meet her." Nothing you've described sounds like someone playing you; sounds like somebody who's still dealing with the effects of trauma, and unsure how she feels about herself and her past behavior. Not your job to do that dealing for her, so don't freak out about "holy shit I don't know how to HEAAAL HERRRR!!!" It's up to her to decide if you seem like somebody who's safe to let interact with those trauma wounds; it's up to you to decide if she seems like someone who's safe to share the beginning of your partnered sex life. It's up to both of you to decide whether you even like each other in person. It's up to everybody to accept the risk of getting hurt if they want to have relationships. A first date is just to feel each other out, not to swear fealty and support to one another for the rest of your god-given days. Razz
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Post by Dannyboy on Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:50 am

Alright, so she couldn't make our Sunday date because of work, so we rescheduled to tomorrow. However, tonight she texted me and told me she wasn't sure about meeting up because she'd break my heart. She said that she wasn't relationship material, that she was a whore who didn't deserve a relationship. I told I could go away if she wanted, but she told me that she didn't want that, that I was really sweet. Anyway, we talked for awhile and the date tomorrow's still on, but she told me quote, "Don't say I didn't warn you".'

Sigh, anyone more experienced wanna tell me what the best thing to do is?

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Post by eselle28 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:23 am

I encouraged you to initially meet this woman, and I mostly felt the same after your first post in this thread. I think at this point I'm neutral on whether you should go through with this date though, and the "pro" argument consists mostly of the fact that it's tomorrow and you've already scheduled it.

If you go, I would suggest being pleasant, but paying a lot of attention to whether she's able to interact with you as a date (asking you questions about your life, talking about subjects of mutual interest) or whether most of the meeting focuses on her talking about feeling unworthy and you comforting her. While I have sympathy for her recovery process, someone who's working through feelings of guilt and shame so extensively probably isn't in a place where she can start a new relationship with her. If that's mostly what you end up seeing in person, I'd suggest either not asking her out again or suggesting that you keep things on a friendship only level.

If you decide you don't want to go on this date, I think that's a valid choice given that she's now expressed doubts several times, you're unsure yourself, and there's already been one cancellation. If you do cancel, make sure you do it early tomorrow - waiting until the last moment just makes things worse.
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Post by Enail on Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:37 pm

I second what Eselle says. It's one thing for her to express some insecurities and give you a heads' up about what she's dealing with, but repeatedly bringing up her negative self-talk like that makes me think that she's looking for an unhealthy level of support for this early on. You don't want to be in a situation where she's trying to outsource her sense of self-worth to you. If you go on the date, definitely pay attention as Eselle suggests.
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Post by Dannyboy on Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:52 pm

Well, I went on the date and I...I just don't know.

Alright, so first the drive. It took about 3 hours both ways and was kind of exhausting, especially since I spent half the way not knowing where the hell I was going. It was also, nerve-wracking on the way back, for some reason, by the time I got back home my nerves were so raw I had to drink a whole bottle of wine to relax and go to bed.

So, anyway, I got there, met her, and we drove to Old Chicago. She had beer, I had Iced Tea because I don't drink and drive. It was incredibly awkward, I had nothing about myself I felt comfortable saying, so I just asked her about her work with disabled people and stuff, she had a lot of interesting stories about the people who live there. She seemed distracted the whole time, and I was feeling as if she didn't like me. After we got back to the car she told me that a guy she used to date was a server there, and that he was staring at her the whole time.

Anyway, after that we went back to her place to watch some movies, but unfortunately her laptop was having problems. Ultimately we just lay on the bed and began talking together and flirting. I was giggling the whole time because I was nervous, and she kept asking me about it. Still, she laughed at my jokes, she smiled, I played with her hair , she lay on my lap, everything was going good. I even asked her if I could kiss her and she let me, it felt really nice. She told me that I was sweet and cute.

She asked me some personal questions. I told her that I had never had a date, never kissed a girl before, and that I don't watch porn. She found all of this incredibly weird, and told me that most guys would have taken her clothes off and had sex with her by that time. A little bit after that, I asked her if I could feel her breasts, and she said yes. Then I asked if I could see her with her top off, to which she also agreed. I asked her if I could have sex with her, but she told me she din't want to take my virginity, that I should save it for someone special. She did offer me a blow job and I...accepted. I felt so bad having asked for sex, for accepting a blow job from her, I felt like I had disrespected her and I felt really dirty and guilty. I asked her if she was okay, and she said she was fine, but I still feel guilty.

I stayed there for about an hour longer, and we continued to talk about things. She's suffered a lot of tragedy in her life: her dad is a drug addict who she no longer talks to her, she was raped in high school, she just got out of an abusive relationship not all that long ago. I felt really sad for her, I felt like she deserved someone to care for her. But I also felt such a disconnect between us. She's very experienced and street smart in every way, I'm not. She says that she hates people and thinks that the world sucks, I don't. She told me she's not interested in going anywhere, while I want to explore a bit.

Anyway, she work the next day and it was pretty late, so I left. She kissed me on the way out the door and I headed back home.

I'm just, feeling a lot of emotions right now and a lot of them are unpleasant. I liked that bit of intimacy we had, when we were joking around and kissing, But I feel extraordinarily guilty about asking her to take off her top, about asking for sex on the first date and then accepting a blow job. I feel like I'm a rapist. I also don't know if I really like her. She's cute, funny, and very kind to me, but she's seems so bitter about the world, about people, about everything.

I don't know, I just, don't know. I feel like I shouldn't have done this at all, I feel like I shouldn't have even pursued a relationship with anybody, I'm just not emotionally intelligent enough. I don't know if I should end things here, or continue. I mean, because I saw her naked and she gave me a blow-job, a part of me feels obligated to continue and try to pursue a relationship. But, I don't know if I can, she's so far away and we're so different from each other. I just don't know.

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Post by The Wisp on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:55 pm

I'm totally not qualified to comment on the rest, but:

But I feel extraordinarily guilty about asking her to take off her top, about asking for sex on the first date and then accepting a blow job. I feel like I'm a rapist

While those sound like shitty feelings to have, and I'm sorry your feeling them, you do realize they're irrational. After all, you asked if she would take her shirt off and she said yes. Consent. She asked you if you wanted a blowjob, and you said yes. Consent.
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Post by Werel on Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:22 am

Seconding Wisp that while feelings around sex can be unpredictable and confusing, especially at first, you REALLY don't need to feel like a dang rapist here. It's fine and reasonable if you feel weird about having had that experience with somebody you've got mixed feelings towards, but you really didn't do anything wrong by either requesting or accepting sex acts. She consented, you consented, it's all good.

You're also not obligated to continue anything with her just cause y'all fooled around--but you might want to let all the AAAAAHHHOMG from that evening settle down a bit before deciding.
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Post by reboot on Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:16 am

Thirding Wisp and seconding Werel. You are both adults, no one was intoxicated, everyone asked and received consent. Her history of being raped may be contributing to your feelings of guilt, but past history of rape does not mean she cannot consent now to taking her shirt off and does not make accepting her offer of oral somehow wrong.

After your emotions have settled, you can decide to what degree, if any, you want her in your life. Despite how far everything went, it was still a first date.
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Post by Tennessee Ed on Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:49 am

Sounds like everything that happened was normal and healthy. Good for you. More experience will make you more comfortable. I think you did everything right, including being open about being inexperienced. That's not easy.

It's OK to let yourself feel good about this. You did something that made you feel anxious. You were charming and attractive enough that she wanted to get you off. This is success all around. However you choose to proceed is the right choice. Good job.

If there's a next time, remember the words "What can I do for you?"

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Post by Dannyboy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:44 pm

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm over the spell I was in now, I think the fact that I was getting a flu mixed with the somewhat strange first date I had made me have a bit of a panic attack.

I've decided not to pursue this girl anymore. She's just too far away and too bitter against the world for my tastes. I've begun messaging on OKC again and am meeting some other girls already.

Anyway, point is, I'm fine now. Thanks again for all the advice guys.

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Post by Perlandra on Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:51 am

Tennessee Ed wrote:Sounds like everything that happened was normal and healthy.  Good for you.  More experience will make you more comfortable.  I think you did everything right, including being open about being inexperienced.  That's not easy.  It's OK to let yourself feel good about this.  You did something that made you feel anxious.  You were charming and attractive enough that she wanted to get you off.  This is success all around.
I have to disagree.  Dannyboy didn't do anything wrong per se, but she made it crystal clear that sex *isn't* healthy for her, that she is self-destructive/using it as a means of self-harm.  That is why he felt so weird about it afterward, as far as I can tell.  Her offer to get him off wasn't because she liked him so much, it was because she felt she didn't deserve love/pleasure/reciprocation.

Dannyboy, I'm glad you're getting interest from other ladies who are closer to you, and hopefully more on the same page.

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Post by Dannyboy on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:03 pm

Alright, went on a date with another girl, figured it'd be better to use the same thread to discuss this rather than a new one.

Anyway, this I also met this girl on OKC. About a week ago she liked my profile so I messaged her back, and we arranged a brunch and hike date. Anyway, so I go to the breakfast place and its really busy so it takes about 50 minutes for us to get in, so we talked outside. She didn't seem to mind and we talked until we were let in and continued to talk inside. I got her to talk a lot, asked her questions about musicals we liked, we talked about this show, Orphan Black, that she introduced me to, but I didn't really talk about myself, I kind of felt like I had nothing to say. I tried a few jokes, she laughed at some of them, and I also feel like I asked some stupid things. I felt like she had experienced more than me, that I often had nothing to add. Then we go out for the hike, its sweltering out, and she wasn't used to incline hikes (she's from out east, so she walked mostly on beaches before :p ), so we ended it early. So we got back to our cars, she said she had a good time, she asked to share our numbers and I tell we should do something together again, which she agrees. I asked her if I could hug her, she said yes, we hugged and then we parted ways.

So, how badly did I do, should I even bother contacting her, or have I been politely rejected.

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Post by Werel on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:13 pm

That doesn't sound like a rejection at all; she asked for your number, sounds like you had pretty good conversational flow, and next time you'll know to plan a more weather-appropriate date. Razz Don't sweat not being sure that your own conversation was scintillating; everybody kicks themselves for not being Super Charming to the Max enough on a first date. Try planning another date with her and see how it goes.
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Post by reboot on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:23 pm

Uh, she wanted you to hug her, she asked to exchange numbers, she agreed to getting together again. How many more positive signals do you need? Smile

Plan a date with her, fool!
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Post by Wondering on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:02 pm

What reboot said.

She asked to exchange numbers, you suggested doing something again and she said yes, she said yes you could hug her, and then you both did.

Where's the problem here?


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Post by Dannyboy on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:07 pm

I don't know, I thought you were supposed to kiss the first date and wow them with how awesome and funny you are.

Well, thanks for the feedback guys. Smile

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Post by jcorozza on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:57 pm

I have literally never kissed anyone on a first date, or had anyone attempt to kiss me on one. And yet I often had second, 3rd, and 100th dates with some of those guys.
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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:35 am

I say you call her up right the fuck now and set up that second date. The sooner the better, I think.

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Post by Dannyboy on Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:21 pm

So, I've decided not to continue dating that girl, she wasn't very "warm" if that makes any sense, I guess I just didn't feel we were compatible.

I've got another date coming up this Sunday (and this time, hopefully, we'll actually meet at the Museum as planned), I'm really nervous. The biggest thing, I guess, is her looks, she's way,way out of my league, in fact when I first messaged her I didn't think she'd actually respond to me, its just so much easier to talk to a girl if you feel your about the same level of attractiveness. Not only is she really pretty, she also draws and even had some experience dancing, so she's way more talented than me too.

What I'm asking is this, what kind of questions should I ask on our first date? Should I ask philosophical questions, like, what her closest experience with death was? Should I stick to movies and tv we both like? Do I talk about things I'm passionate about, like indie music or video games? Should I just shut up and looks at the exhibits?

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Post by jcorozza on Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:25 pm

Dude, you gotta stop talking about the whole league thing. You've set up several dates over a short period of time - I think you're in a higher "league" than you think you are. Also, if you're doing a museum, I'd say go light on the talking - like, respond to the art, but follow her lead if other subjects come up. Then if that goes well, go for coffee after so you can talk face to face a bit more.
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Post by Wondering on Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:34 am

Yeah, the museum will provide the topics to talk about.

But don't ask a first date what their closest experience with death is. That's a bit morbid and intense for a first date (specific situations where this question might come up naturally notwithstanding).

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Post by BasedBuzzed on Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:54 am

Ask what she thinks happens after one dies, and name a piece of art/fiction that painted a soothing image of life after death for you(this is also a good filter for tryhard mallgoths, who will simply give a clinical description of how a body decays).

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