Dating problems

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Post by reboot on Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:43 am

Personally, I would stay away from death as a topic since you do not know enough about her to know if that is a minefield.

Use the first date as a time to learn more about her. What are her interests? How did she get into them? How long has she lived in your city? Does she like it? What brought her there? Where did she live before? etc. You should only need a handful of seed questions, because if a conversation takes, it will branch off in totally unpredictable directions and flow.
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Post by Dannyboy on Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:40 pm

Thanks for the conversation starters, guys. Smile

I was reading up a bit on DNL Prime and he was talking about chemistry and the power of touch. Is it appropriate to touch on the first date? In what way if so? Should i wait until i'm better at this to try flirting and touching?

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Post by eselle28 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:55 pm

Where's your first date? If you're sitting across from her at a table and she has her arm resting on it, you can reach across as you're talking and lightly touch her wrist or her hand as you make a point. If you're sitting beside her, you can do the same with her arm. There are times when lower back or leg touches might be appropriate, but if you're not used to initiating touch, I'd stick to the arm areas.

Obviously this is all subject to you feeling like you're both generally having a good time. If she seems very reserved or unhappy or is just generally keeping all of her body parts out of reach, that's a signal she'd rather not be touched.
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Post by Dannyboy on Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:07 pm

Well we're going to a museum so, I guess I can touchher arm while telling a story or something.

I'm just so nervous, she's just so amazing and I'm just an ugly old schlub. I don't want to wreck this by doing too much or too little!

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Post by Guest on Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:38 pm

Dannyboy wrote:So, I've decided not to continue dating that girl, she wasn't very "warm" if that makes any sense, I guess I just didn't feel we were compatible.

I've got another date coming up this Sunday (and this time, hopefully, we'll actually meet at the Museum as planned), I'm really nervous. The biggest thing, I guess, is her looks, she's way,way out of my league, in fact when I first messaged her I didn't think she'd actually respond to me, its just so much easier to talk to a girl if you feel your about the same level of attractiveness. Not only is she really pretty, she also draws and even had some experience dancing, so she's way more talented than me too.

What I'm asking is this, what kind of questions should I ask on our first date? Should I ask philosophical questions, like, what her closest experience with death was? Should I stick to movies and tv we both like? Do I talk about things I'm passionate about, like indie music or video games? Should I just shut up and looks at the exhibits?

I say nix the philosophy stuff. Especially shit about death, bro. Unless she's into philosophy junk, fine, then aight, that's cool. Otherwise, don't even try to force that conversation or else I think it comes off as pretentious in my opinion.

What's worked for me is asking open ended questions, or shit, even play 20 questions lol. Also just making observations about things and asking questions in the moment. Stuff like that, I dunnou. Mileage may vary.

But please for the love of god, don't philosophize.

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Post by Dannyboy on Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:30 pm

Gotcha Mikey, no really hardcore philosophizing stuff.

*sigh*, What is it about me that makes girls want to tell me they're life story. We were texting and I asked her about why she went through a time that she became cynical and lost her faith. Then she tells me that she had gotten dumped and then a friend committed suicide, and how for many years the owmen of her church ostracized her, and that she was dumped again more recently. I already texted back my empathy and thanked her for trusting me with such personal information, but now I'm worried that I could ruin her pyscologically or that she's going to use me as an ego boost.

I know I shouldn't feel this way, I should be honored to be trusted with such personal information even though she's never so much as met me. But with the experience before... well I guess I didn't realize how good I had it before, how easy my life was Sad


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Post by jcorozza on Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:19 am

As long as your just listening (or reading) and responding with empathy, I don't know why you'd be damaging her psychologically. Then again, we're all a little bit damaged, really.

Also, I doubt she's using you as an ego boost, but if she was recently dumped, it may be more of a "I just lost this person from my life, and I need someone else to fill that emotional space" kind of thing. Which isn't automatically bad, but I think it's a good enough reason to take things slow. Which goes back to the touching - don't force it. Some people are really physical early on, others aren't. Again, follow her lead. It sounds like she's had more relationship experience than you, so she might have a more solid idea of what she wants/expects in a first date, so pay attention to her signals.
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Post by Enail on Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:26 am

It sounds like you tend to ask pretty deep, probing sorts of questions and that you come across as kind and non-judgmental, which might lead some people to feel it's okay to tell you really personal, sensitive things right away.  Kind, non-judgmental and able to delve into interesting questions are all good things, but if you're uncomfortable with how much you're getting of everyone's personal traumas early on (and I think it's very natural to be uncomfortable with that), you might want to practice asking questions that are still a little deep or philosophical but maybe lean in a less "deepest hurts and fears" direction and more into neutral phrasings or lighthearted topics. Maybe less "what's your closest experience with death," which leads very naturally into a lot of painful experiences and more "what do you think happens after we die?" or "have you ever died in a dream?"
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Post by Dannyboy on Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:54 pm

Thanks again for all the advice guys, I really appreciate all of the time you guys have taken out to help me. Smile

Alright, so today I met her for the museum date, God she's beautiful, I really want to kiss her. Embarassed She was a bit late ( I tried to tease her a bit about that), but it didn't matter, we got into the museum with enough time. She'd actually been there more often than me, so we spent the first part of the day looking for these little easter eggs in the Museum, like the model butterflys that actually moved or the little gnomes hidden in the wildlife exhibits. That was fun and I got her to laugh at some of my jokes as well. Then we went to the Native American cultures exhibits and we talked a little bit about the little bit of Indian blood we both had. She kind of got worked up during that exhibit, because of all the horrible things that happened to the Native Americans, I agree with her and I tried to expand on the subject, but it rang a little weaker than I thought it would, I hope she didn't think I was just agreeing with her so that she liked me.

After that we finally got into the Mythical Creatures exhibit. We didn't talk much while in there because she was reading a lot of the exhibit things, though I did manage to crack a coupe jokes that made her laugh (or that she laughed politely at). They actually had a thing where you could draw your own mythical creature and post it on a wall, so we both did that. She's such an amazing drawer, she drew this lion-mouse like creature from a story of hers. I felt so lame in comparison, I just drew this ball of glowing green which was supposed to be a sentient horde of germs,lol, I suck at anything artist. At the end of the exhibit, we took a picture together on a green screen where a dragon was projected,lol, we both sent it to our emails. Then, before the museum closed, we stopped by the health exhibit where we played this game with our brainwaves where whoever was the most relaxed won (I won, yay Razz).

Afterwards I walked her to her car. She told me that she was going to suggest going out for dinner, but that she had to dog sit for a person that night. She told me that she had a lot of fun and seemed genuine about it, and she told me that she would be willing to go on more dates with me, suggesting she might come to my town next time. I suggested the zoo and she seemed to like that idea (the Cheyenne Mountain zoo is a really good zoo). I asked her if she was available next weekend but she told me that she was going camping (for the first time, apparently), but she told me that we should keep texting each other and she might see if next weekend or another date becomes open. Before we parted ways she asked me if I wanted a hug, and of course I said yes, we hugged and then I left.

I hate to be a broken record here but, did she just brush me off, was I politely, indirectly rejected. I want to believe that she really had run, that she liked me, but I can't get my hopes up because I know that they'll all be crushed. She's such a beautiful, talented person and I'm so boring and ugly. I can see in my mind her calling her friend and saying how boring I  was, or complaining how short I was. She probably has a line of suitors a million miles long, with tons of taller, more skilled, more handsome men. I'm afraid that I failed.

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Post by Enail on Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:08 pm

It sounds like a fun date! And I'd say she was trying pretty hard to give you clear signals that she's interested even though she's busy.

Try not to elevate her so much, even if she's beautiful and talented, she's just a person, and I'm sure she has flaws and insecurities too. If you're always telling yourself you're boring and ugly, and that other people are amazing and above you, it makes it hard to genuinely connect with them and to give yourself the chance to find out if you're compatible. You seem to be getting lots of dates and getting on well with them, you've obviously got some good stuff going for you that other people can see even if you can't!
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Post by Werel on Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:11 pm

That sounds like another pretty clear non-brushoff, especially if you guys spent a longish time at the museum (sounds almost like most of a day? If she were having a bad time, she wouldn't have hung around that long). And if she'd been fishing for an excuse to cut things off, she wouldn't have bothered with "I would ask you to dinner, but..." That reads like sincere "I would like to keep this going, but circumstances don't allow at the moment" to me.

And man, there is always the miles-long imaginary queue of other smarter, cooler, better-looking, more interesting and accomplished potential partners for everyone you're interested in. Key facts: first, that queue is imaginary. She's probably driving home fretting about how you've got three hundred Nobel prize-winning swimsuit models just feverishly awaiting your callback while she's a hideous awkward unlovable troll. Second: you gotta take yes for an answer. The fact that this person wants to go on another date with you means she considers you a worthy possibility; regardless of whether she's considering other potential partners at the moment, you're still in the running. You must be worthy of consideration next to any of these other guys (if they even exist), or she wouldn't be talking about a second date.

tl;dr tell the jerkbrain to take a Xanax for a while, and just enjoy having been on a nice date with a beautiful woman who wants to see you again. Razz
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Post by Dannyboy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:49 pm

Welp, I texted her the day afterwards and we had a brief conversation before she just didn't respond to one text. I let it go and decided not to text her yesterday in order to give her space (plus I also wanted to play the new Dragon Age Inquisition DLC), I just texted her a couple of minutes ago, asking her how work was, she began typing a reply but then just disappeared.

Welp, its official, I was rejected and she's been desperately trying to shake me ever since. I shouldn't have rejected those other girls, they may well have been the only chances I had. I've messaged hundreds of girls and I'm beginning to run out of people to message, and the rest probably won't reply either. I was idiot to think I could date so far out of my league, this whole thing feels like its been a waste of time and money.

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Post by nearly_takuan on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:00 pm

Or something came up and she had to skeedaddle in the middle of trying to type something back.
Or she started typing something but it looked wrong before she hit "Send"—too much griping, say—and while she was trying to figure out how to phrase it in a way that seemed like it'd look more attractive/impressive to you, something else caught her attention.
Or her boss called while she was typing stuff on her phone and it stole context away from the messaging app that you're using to watch whether she's in the middle of typing things. Or her mom did. Or the cops.

Having very recently been reminded how easy it is to beat oneself up over not responding soon enough to someone you really like, despite a bunch of other stuff happening all at once getting in the way of your attempts at communication, I encourage you to give her more time, but not to leap to conclusions until she actually responds.
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Post by eselle28 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:21 pm

As nearly mentions, there are a number of reasons she might need more than a little bit after your message to respond. It can be hard for some people to think of clever/appropriate/polite things to say in response to a text, period, and more so if the person is a romantic interest and they're inexperienced with dating.

I'd say two texts is enough unless she responds, but I'd give it until tomorrow to decide she's unlikely to write back.
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Post by Caffeinated on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:52 pm

I agree with Nearly_Takuan and Eselle. Also, nothing good can ever come of watching to see if someone is typing a reply. Look away from the abyss!
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Post by jcorozza on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:43 am

Caffeinated wrote:I agree with Nearly_Takuan and Eselle. Also, nothing good can ever come of watching to see if someone is typing a reply. Look away from the abyss!

This is why I like not having a smart phone. I don't know that they read my message, or that they're typing. I still see it on facebook, but that's not quite as bad.
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Post by Dannyboy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:59 am

Well she did message me again, in spurts, though we didn't get to talk much before she told me she had to get to bed because something big was happening tomorrow.

I'm sorry for overreacting, I know I shouldn't care about this, that I should be calm cool and collected and just take what comes. But its very difficult for me not to get my emotions caught up this. The thought that a girl might like me, or at least that I might convince a girl to like me, it causes a lot of excitement and anxiety at the same time. I'm not used to this, before I started OKC I didn't text anyone, not even my mother. I don't know how much contact is expected of me, when I'm expected to plan a second date (if she even really wants to), or how to keep a girl interested solely through text messages.

I'm afraid that if I make one mistake, if I don't get this girl because I was too boring, or ugly, or clingy, then I'll never have another chance with a girl Its really stupid, I know, but thats just how my mind works.

Thanks again for your feedback guys.

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Post by jcorozza on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:02 am

It sounds like you've got a serious case of Jerkbrain. Your brain is imaging the worst possible result/reason for any given situation. As someone with anxiety and some depression, my brain does this a lot. Seeing a therapist/taking an antidepressant has helped a lot.
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Post by Dannyboy on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:15 am

So, I may have a second date planned with this girl, assuming that she doesn't have to volunteer at church this week.

I have no idea why she's interested, I haven't been that funny in our interactions ,we haven't really talked about anything in depth (well, except for the beginning, where she told me her life story, I wish she still interested in talking about deep philosophical stuff) , and she could get loads more attractive men than me ( in fact, she has, I stalked her facebook profile awhile back and she once date a really tall, handsome navy dude.) Honestly, I felt she was no longer into me in our text interactions, I'd make a joke and she'd either ignore it or simply post "lol" instead of offering a joke back, and when I try to get her to talk about her life, like her experiences with choir or the book ideas that she has, she gives me really vague, matter of fact answers. I wonder if she's only doing this out of a sense of obligation, or perhaps I've been unintentionally pressuring her by texting her every other day. Whatever the reason, I wish I could no more about her, what makes her tick, she seems like a really sweet, loveable girl and I want to fall in love with her.

Jcorozza: Yeah, I've had anxiety problems for awhile and self-esteem issues for even longer. I take anti-depressants but I don't think they really help, whenever there's a big crisis or an exciting thing happening, I still often turn to booze in order to escape. This may be unhealthy, but I figure we all have our crutches, and alcohol is mine.

I went to a therapist once, didn't get much out of it. It felt like she was annoyed by me and my problems and kept trying to force this narrative that my trouble communicating problems stemmed from my parents' unwillingness to talk to me about problems in Middle School. She may have been right, but I don't want to spend the rest of my life resenting my (loving and supportive) parents. She suggested trying to control my anxious thought, but I found trying to suppress or escape from them was easier and more comforting. In addition to all this, I only really contacted her when I was having huge problems, like back when I thought I was crashing into people and not knowing it, causing me to spend several minutes feeling and observing my car for scratches and dents. Those big crises have long since subsided, so I feel going to a therapist now is unnecessary.

I really want this girl to be the one, I want to be one of those normal people who have close relationships outside their families. I want to get married and have children so that my mom doesn't think that she failed in raising me. A few months ago, my mom and I were drinking in a hotel while we were on vacation and she began crying about all the times she worried that she had failed me and my brothers, that we were going to end up failures because of her. I never want her to feel like that ever again.

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Post by nearly_takuan on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:34 am

My favorite therapist so far is fond of the admittedly trite truism, "you don't have to be sick to get better." As of this past week I feel very thoroughly satisfied with how my life is currently going, but I still fully intend to make my next session. Maybe we'll just talk and nothing much will come out of it, but it's also possible we can identify some things I could do or ways I could think that might help maintain this current pleasant state of affairs.

As for this woman you're seeing, I hope you've been paying attention. Maybe you don't mean it this way, but what you wrote here reads a little dismissive of her "life story" and disappointed that she's not having Deep Philosophical Discussions. On the other hand, you want her to talk about herself more, show you what makes her tick, show some more signs of interest.

So show her you're listening. Next time you have a conversation, try to be just slightly more deliberate about tying things back to things she's talked about before. Don't overdo or force it, but be aware of opportunities. If she starts on a story, don't interrupt.

And good luck, dude. I think I have some idea now what all that stuff feels like and it's the best. Revel!
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Post by Enail on Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:23 pm

I think you need to slow your roll wayyyyyy down there. You've been on one date with this person. You have no idea if she's going to regularly enjoy the kinds of deep philosophical discussions you like, if you two want the same things in a relationship, if you even like kissing her, if she has an insanely annoying habit, if she's someone you'd have fun with on second, third, fourth dates or if you just don't click past the first date. And you're already thinking about her being The One, getting married and being with her making your mom stop worrying that she failed you. That's way too much pressure to be putting on this!

Go on a second date. Have fun. Don't leap to the future. Think about it in terms of finding out if you like her so far, enough to go on another date. That's all.

And by "see if you like her", I mean the real person that you're interacting with, not the wonderful, perfect angel you seem to be imagining she is. She is not an angel, she is not perfect. She may or may not be an awesome person, but she is a person, and she will have flaws and do annoying things and sometimes be thoughtless or self-centered or hurt your feelings or be otherwise non-awesome. Because that's what people do, and she is just a person.

And even if she did turn out to be your One True Love and you get married and hearts and flowers and sunshine, she is not going to fix your life. If you feel like a failure, she is not going to magically solve that. She's not going to make your anxiety go away, or resolve all your insecurities, or make you never have big crises that are hard to cope with ever again, or make your mom never worry. Having a relationship can be really great, but even if you're in the most amazing relationship ever, the rest of your life is still your same life, and it sounds to me like you're pinning a lot of big hopes on it that a relationship cannot do for you.

I second NT that you don't have to be having big crises to get benefit out of seeing a therapist. Really trying to work on issues with a therapist can be hard, scary or exhausting, so if you're not up for some challenge, you might not get much from it, but if you do, it could pay off by making a lot of things easier in the long run, including both dating and long-term relationships. Sometimes it takes a while to find a good therapist, too, so if one wasn't helpful, that doesn't mean another couldn't be.
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Post by eselle28 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:32 pm

Dannyboy wrote:
I have no idea why she's interested, I haven't been that funny in our interactions ,we haven't really talked about anything in depth (well, except for the beginning, where she told me her life story, I wish she still interested in talking about deep philosophical stuff) , and she could get loads more attractive men than me ( in fact, she has, I stalked her facebook profile awhile back and she once date a really tall, handsome navy dude.) Honestly, I felt she was no longer into me in our text interactions, I'd make a joke and she'd either ignore it or simply post "lol" instead of offering a joke back, and when I try to get her to talk about her life, like her experiences with choir or the book ideas that she has, she gives me really vague, matter of fact answers. I wonder if she's only doing this out of a sense of obligation, or perhaps I've been unintentionally pressuring her by texting her every other day. Whatever the reason, I wish I could no more about her, what makes her tick, she seems like a really sweet, loveable girl and I want to fall in love with her.

Go on the date and see what happens then. Some people just aren't very fond of texting, especially for substantive conversations. I know I'm not, even with men who interest me a lot.

I went to a therapist once, didn't get much out of it. It felt like she was annoyed by me and my problems and kept trying to force this narrative that my trouble communicating problems stemmed from my parents' unwillingness to talk to me about problems in Middle School. She may have been right, but I don't want to spend the rest of my life resenting my (loving and supportive) parents. She suggested trying to control my anxious thought, but I found trying to suppress or escape from them was easier and more comforting. In addition to all this, I only really contacted her when I was having huge problems, like back when I thought I was crashing into people and not knowing it, causing me to spend several minutes feeling and observing my car for scratches and dents. Those big crises have long since subsided, so I feel going to a therapist now is unnecessary.

I think nearly has some good advice as to what therapy is for. I also think it's good to remember that while it's amazing to be getting into a new relationship, even those can have their stresses. It sounds like you might prefer to go to a therapist who uses more cognitive methods. There, the focus would be more on practical solutions and less on things that happened when you were a child.

I really want this girl to be the one, I want to be one of those normal people who have close relationships outside their families. I want to get married and have children so that my mom doesn't think that she failed in raising me. A few months ago, my mom and I were drinking in a hotel while we were on vacation and she began crying about all the times she worried that she had failed me and my brothers, that we were going to end up failures because of her. I never want her to feel like that ever again.

This bit is something you might want to keep an eye on. It's great to be excited about meeting someone new. That is a lot of pressure for a new person in your life, though, especially since some of it focuses on making your mother happy. The woman you've been out with doesn't even know your mother, after all! That doesn't mean you shouldn't date, of course, but I think you might want to watch and make sure that you're taking care of those feelings yourself and that they don't end up affecting your dates.
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Post by Wondering on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:31 pm

I want to get married and have children so that my mom doesn't think that she failed in raising me.

This is not a good reason to have kids. You should have kids because you want to, not because your parents want you to.

And remember, you aren't the one growing the kid. Your potential wife is. She needs to want to have the kids because she wants to, too.

That's all obvious, I know, but the way you phrased that is all about you wanting to get married and get your wife pregnant (more than once) because of what will make your mom feel better.

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Post by Dannyboy on Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:00 am

Well, today was a pretty bad day, all things considered.

I had date yesterday with a girl. I I thought we connected well, we had fun at an amusement park, talked for hours, she even invited me to her apartment to meet her friend and roommate. But I texted her today, several hours ago, and she never replied.

I texted the other girl I had the dated, the one who I went out to the museum with. We had talked on and off for the past few weeks. Today, she told me that she had decided not to pursue a relationship with me, due to the distance between us (or so she claims, I have no idea if thats just a way to push me away). I texted her, told her I understood and that I wished her luck in her future endeavors, she replied with the same. And now I feel close to tears.

Its days like today which remind me why my life goal was once to buy a house in the mountains and never talk to anybody ever again. To never be judged, to never feel like I was lesser than everyone else, I would give anything to have that. I should never have embarked on this stupid endeavor to begin with. I started this summer with the goal to get a girlfriend, make some buddies, and write a novel, now I'm ending it with nothing but a few first dates that went nowhere, a couple of boring meetups, and a thousand word opening that I deleted from my computer for being so ungodly horrendous. I should've just gave up this nonsense and studied for the GRE all summer instead. Then, I'd be on my way to grad school, and from there a job to support a healthy booze habit and house of my own where I can hide away from the world and never deal with rejection and humiliation ever again.

I apologize for what I said in my last post, I wrote it when I was drunk and even then I knew it sounded extraordinarily creepy. I don't need a girl to be the one, I just want a girlfriend so that I could feel like I was normal for once, that I was a complete social pariah. Is that selfish, probably, but its the desire that has defined my life since middle-school. I know I shouldn't be posting stupid whining like this on the internet, why should you all care about me and my stupid problems? But I honestly don't feel like I have anywhere else to turn, any other way to get this sadness out of me.

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Post by Hirundo Bos on Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:03 am

Hey. Rejection sucks. Twice in one day sucks worse. The period of time where you wait for and hope for a reply, the period before it's been long enough to be certain, can suck a great deal. I wrote my first post on the old forums on one of those days. It was about how rejection-feelings took me years back, emotionally – had me relive a set of emotions I'd otherwise left behind.

Talking about each others' stupid problems is kind of what these forums are built around...

I put the next section in spoiler tags, because it's a bit advicey, and that might not be what you're looking for now, so feel free to ignore or save for later:

advicey section on goal-setting:
Your goals for the summer, are not unlike my own goals for the year: Improve my love life, work on a single book for the entire year. There's a difference to how they're formulated, though... for one thing, they're built around improvement, rather than completion, which means that every step along the way counts as a small success. Even the failures counts as small successes, because they bring experience.

In fact, with the work on a book for a year, that's been the main point... to force myself to continue working past the worst feelings of failure, so I could get a chance to gather XP on the aspects of writing I struggled with the most. I'm learning a lot from it, and it's inspired me to actually seek out failure in other parts of my life as well.

For another, my goals are built around my own actions, not those of others. Actually finding a girlfriend would depend on said potential girlfriend, and her choices would be influenced by factors that have nothing at all to do with me.

How to choose and formulate goals is something that's being discussed quite a bit around here, and if you're interested/when you're ready, it's something people around here can try to help with.
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