Yeppppppp

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Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:45 am

So a conversation came up between me and my mom and my sister about my attitude, how I should think a little less about a... I forget the wording, something about a bad attitudeness (but meant more about inability to think positively) and a little more the opposite. I got frustrated and told them that this is the attitude I was raised with. My mom denies it.

So I tell her about a few memories I have of them threatening to put me up for adoption or give me away to relatives because of whatever it was we were arguing about when I was a little kid. She laughed and said that was funny (not in a malicious way, in a kind of "that's a funny joke" way). I tell her that she seriously, and angrily, did that. She doesn't remember it at all. I get mad at her, her response is "well, get over it and" I forget the rest because I said something like "Go fuck yourself" and walked away.

Throughout my life, I've never thought positively of myself, because people tended more to reject me than not. When people try to tell me nice things, I feel nothing and don't really believe them anyway. I've felt a hug or two in my life, felt nothing. I don't think positively of myself because nothing positive has ever come of thinking positively of myself. That was one of the rejections that stuck with me just like any other thing, that idea that even my parents would rather quit on me and give me away than listen to me.

And she doesn't even remember it.

Intellectually, why would she, she was probably just being an angry parent and there is history in my family of that kind of thing (one of her brothers was sent to live with an uncle because no one could handle him).

Mentally and emotionally, I should be mad, but that only lasted for a few minutes. I'm just kind of defeated, crushed, and in a humourous mood all at once. Of course no one remembers things that hurt my ability to trust other people and stuck with me the most. "It's not like I matter anyways, why would this situation be any different?"

I'm not even sure I could get mad or depressively spiral anymore. I feel like the rest of my emotions are just draining out right now and what's left is going to be closer to robotic.

Actually I just got distracted by something else for a bit and can confirm, they're fully drained out and robot-mode is a-go. Achievement Unlocked? I don't even know anymore.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:52 am

Hey, that's an absolutely brutal thing to have said to you as a kid, and doubly brutal that she doesn't remember it. Try to remember that this is about her being the kind of person who's so impulsive or self-centered or whatever that she would say that and not even think about it as something that would affect a little kid really deeply, it doesn't say anything about you or your value as a person.  It is not your fault your mother is the kind of person who would do that to you.

It sounds like maybe you're shutting down your emotions as a form of self-protection? Be kind to yourself - and extra gentle because your emotions aren't going to let you know right now if something's being too hard on them. You just had a really hurtful thing happen, it's okay to feel or not feel however you feel/don't feel about it.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:27 pm

Enail wrote:Hey, that's an absolutely brutal thing to have said to you as a kid, and doubly brutal that she doesn't remember it. Try to remember that this is about her being the kind of person who's so impulsive or self-centered or whatever that she would say that and not even think about it as something that would affect a little kid really deeply, it doesn't say anything about you or your value as a person.  It is not your fault your mother is the kind of person who would do that to you.

It's not even about fault or whatever, just... this is what I got. "This is it." If I'd got something better, or even something worse (to motivate me to get the fuck away ASAP), I might be someone worth something even just to myself, nevermind others. Instead I got what I got and am what I am and it's subpar and unwanted all around.


It sounds like maybe you're shutting down your emotions as a form of self-protection? Be kind to yourself - and extra gentle because your emotions aren't going to let you know right now if something's being too hard on them. You just had a really hurtful thing happen, it's okay to feel or not feel however you feel/don't feel about it.

Shrug

Some buddhist person or someone said something about just being inside your emotions/making friends with your demons or whatever, so I'm just kind of treading water in toxic sludge right now
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:39 pm

bomaye wrote:
It's not even about fault or whatever, just... this is what I got. "This is it." If I'd got something better, or even something worse (to motivate me to get the fuck away ASAP), I might be someone worth something even just to myself, nevermind others. Instead I got what I got and am what I am and it's subpar and unwanted all around.

You got what you got, yeah, but how your parents treat you is not the entirety of who you are and what you can have. Emotional abuse - and I do think that's what that is - can be really insidious in making you believe you're subpar and unwanted and unwantable, but it doesn't actually destroy your worth. Feeling like you're worthless is a pretty natural result from that, but being worthless is not.

I know it's not something you can manage immediately, or even something that you necessarily want, but if at some point you can get out of your parents' place, I think you might find a lot of things become a little easier when you don't have someone around making you feel that way all the time.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:52 pm

It's not even "all the time", it's just kind of like a house that was built on rotten foundation, you only notice it once in awhile when it seeps to the top.

I think you are what you feel, though.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:03 pm

bomaye wrote:It's not even "all the time", it's just kind of like a house that was built on rotten foundation, you only notice it once in awhile when it seeps to the top.

Yeah, okay. It still doesn't seem like the best place to be living.

I think you are what you feel, though.

When I was a kid, I went through phases where I genuinely believed I could have magic powers, if I just tried hard enough or figured out the right way to do it, the possibility felt so real. People feel a lot of things that aren't true. And doubly so when they've been directly or indirectly told they should feel one way all their lives. It's like someone who's been shown funhouse mirrors all their life believing they're ugly; the feelings are there for a legitimate reason, but that reason isn't necessarily 'because it's true.'
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:05 pm

I've always kind of subscribed to "If it wasn't true, it wouldn't happen."
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:23 pm

You were a little kid. Think of a kid that age; not you, a kid you've known or seen. Do you really think there's anything a child could do or be that would justify making them scared that their parents would give them away, just for an argument?

Come on, you know your parents aren't especially reasonable people. Surely you can think of things they've done or said reactions they've had (to something other than you) that were wrong, misguided or bad reactions? Why do you take them for totally accurate when it's about you?
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:47 pm

My mom came at me with all this "playing the victim" stuff, some of it in a mocking tone, then cried and said she's not living with this kind of stress "again" and things along those lines. She justified herself by saying "if a kid is a problem that's what they did" when she was growing up. And something about "if I would've done it my way, I would've stuck you in daycare and worked and you would've had nothing." Or something like that.

I was strangely unaffected by it. Kind of satisfied that it cut her that deep (what a terrible thing to say). My days of being tolerated are probably numbered though.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:04 pm

Maybe it'd be a good idea to try to lay low for a little while?
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:51 pm

I dunno, I'm defeated anyways
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Werel on Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:32 pm

Ooof, that is a brutal thing to say (and forget) to a kid. Sad

I'm sorry circumstances don't allow you to just GTFO their house and be the decider on how/when you interact with your parents. It's a lot easier to separate your actual worth from their idea of your worth when you're not around them all day. Do you have the option to just, like, leave the house for a while for the next couple days? Library/park/coffee shop? Spend some time in a space where you aren't constantly being bombarded with reminders of that relationship and how it makes you feel (or not feel)?

(If I had to guess, based on experience with similar situations, the fact that she came at you so hard after that conversation may mean she's feeling horrible about her own past behavior after being forced to examine it but isn't the kind of person to ever admit it. Dunno if that idea is any use to you in dealing with her right now.)

bomaye wrote:I think you are what you feel, though.
You're also what you do with those feelings, how you think, and how you act when you're not feeling anything very strongly. A period of robot mode here and there doesn't equate to you ceasing to exist.

Good luck with the sludge-treading. Neutral
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Wondering on Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:36 pm

Werel wrote:(If I had to guess, based on experience with similar situations, the fact that she came at you so hard after that conversation may mean she's feeling horrible about her own past behavior after being forced to examine it but isn't the kind of person to ever admit it.)

I was kind of thinking the same thing.

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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:53 pm

Werel wrote:
(If I had to guess, based on experience with similar situations, the fact that she came at you so hard after that conversation may mean she's feeling horrible about her own past behavior after being forced to examine it but isn't the kind of person to ever admit it. Dunno if that idea is any use to you in dealing with her right now.)

I wouldn't rule it out.

I'm starting to think they just think I'm some normal person where everything's fine for all of these years. There's always a kind of "what the fuck is he talking about?" whenever I bring up anything that's bothering me.

My default state of mind is "no one wants me." I don't absorb examples of people wanting me. Any little bit of mockery or criticism is a rejection, because I just want people to safely like me and accept me. There's something wrong with me, and I don't know what it is. And now I matter so little that my own parents won't take it seriously.

Pagliacci made a thread that's appropriate for this too "What do you do when the world doesn't want you in it?"
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Werel on Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:08 pm

bomaye wrote: I don't absorb examples of people wanting me.
Funny that you can acknowledge this but still say with any confidence that you are unwanted.

bomaye wrote:And now I matter so little that my own parents won't take it seriously.
I think it's often hardest for parents to take their own kids' problems seriously, because they're too close and it's too easy to feel responsible. If they can shut your problems out of their minds, they don't have to spend any time thinking about how they may have contributed to those problems. If they were to really hear you on what you're saying about how you were treated as a kid, it might be a real feelbad time for them, and people go to some incredible lengths to avoid those.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:12 pm

Werel wrote:
bomaye wrote: I don't absorb examples of people wanting me.
Funny that you can acknowledge this but still say with any confidence that you are unwanted.

It's because I'm always waiting for the "real" reason why I'm being tolerated to come out.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:23 pm

I can't totally tell, but I think she's given up on me.

I'm sure I'll find out when dad gets home.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:21 pm

I second Werel. Your parents sound like they work pretty hard to avoid dealing with things in general. That doesn't mean you don't matter, or even that they don't care about you, just they're not great at recognizing problems and supporting the people in their lives. Which sucks, and I'm really sorry you're having to go through this, but it's not a sign of your value.

bomaye wrote:I can't totally tell, but I think she's given up on me.

I'm sure I'll find out when dad gets home.

Good luck with your dad. And try not to take whatever goes down tonight with them as too much of a permanent truth; people can say a lot of things in the heat of the moment that don't necessarily reflect the whole of their feelings or how the relationship will go in the future.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:53 pm

Nothing happened, as far as I can tell.

Maybe I'm just the unreasonable bad guy here.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:57 pm

It's absolutely not unreasonable for you to be upset! But I'm really glad to hear that the aftermath with your parents might not be as bad as you feared.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Werel on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:09 am

Seconded. Nothing unreasonable about you being upset about this stuff, and it's great that it didn't lead to a blowout with bad consequences.
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:52 am

It's upsetting, but maybe they're just right about my shit attitude. I always feel like people in general are against me instead of with me

I was ready for my dad and sister to wreck my shit, and they both instead said things along the lines of "Are you sick? You don't like all right."
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Wondering on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:04 am

To me that indicates that they know there's something serious going wrong, but maybe don't want to acknowledge or admit to the issues you raised with your mom. But they are concerned about you and want to make sure you're okay.

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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by bomaye on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:14 am

I'm not even sure my mom told them anything
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Re: Yeppppppp

Post by Enail on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:37 am

Oh, I'm really glad to hear that. Even if you don't want to talk to them about it, it's good to have people looking out for you and paying attention.

Maybe it's a bit of both, there are times when you're assuming the worst when they're trying to be helpful that makes things harder, and times when it's really harmful stuff and your attitude wouldn't make a difference to that?
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