"Is there a Technical Manual for dating?" Jerkbrain is at it again... [Adv]

[Guest]

At least once a week, I check on the Doc's blog for new content (Some of the articles make me laugh! ). however my negative thinking is trying even harder to take over and undo all the (small, but very significant) progress I have achieved in the short time since signing up here. Trying to make me the angry loner that almost swallowed the dreaded red pill... almost destroying my chances with someone altogether...

Makes me sick to my stomach thinking that I almost turned into the monster I always feared... I apologized then and I apologize again now.

Anyway, Mr. Jerkbrain here is misunderstanding everything the Doc has wrote. To understand better, I'm gonna post a pearl of wisdom absolute horseshit here:

I have to memorize all this just to get a smile from someone? This is not what I came here for!! the hot guys still get attention easily, while "Doc" here tells me to jump through a million hoops and bend ove just to get a FUCKING SMILE?? IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR!!1!:shout: :shout: :shout: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

Is essence, that fleeting thought tells me that basic interaction with someone (regardless of gender) is difficult enough to warrant the need of a TM for dating... with all the cheat codes... and secrets... and a full walkthrough. as if a woman (or a cute guy...) were robots without autonomy (Though I would not mind a badass super-strong secret agent cyborg from Japan with purple hair... 1 cookie to the first person knows who am I talking about!) frankly, I now regard my own self sabotaging thoughts not as a minor annoyance but a full blown threat to my chances of meeting and dating people

As always any advice, opinions and cheetah pics are welcome.


Don't forget the cheetah pics.

[Guest]

Is there a tech manual for dating?

Short answer, no.

Long answer, no, there isn't and you don't need to memorize everything either. There's too much to memorize, it's honestly more winging it than anything else while genuinely being a good person. There are ZERO guarantees in this world and even if you do everything right, things may or may not be in your favor.

Give you a non-dating related example, I'm San Diego Comic Con junkie. I have ways of getting in without paying a cent, however I still go through the arduous procedures to buy tickets for my dad and brother. I made my SDCC MemberID, I got the link and I went to their online waiting room, stood in their virtual server for 45 minutes or so before the show was sold out. Well, fuck, it happens and there's no use getting angry about it being sold out.

As for a dating-related issue, there was a couple of ladies I interned with and I asked one of them out maybe two months after we finished our stint there. I got a wishy-washy response, I texted her a few days later and turns out she wasn't looking to date anyone at all. All right, fair enough. At least she was being honest with me because, I did everything you'd think is right. I was friendly with her, we made eachother laugh, we opened up to eachother and so on. I had also broken the touch barrier and everything, but nope. Nothing actually happened. Was I heartbroken and feeling shitty? You bet your ass.

Look, what I'm tryna say, it's trial and error. I just personally don't like errors.

[Guest]

Is there a tech manual for dating?

Short answer, no.

Long answer, no, there isn't and you don't need to memorize everything either. There's too much to memorize, it's honestly more winging it than anything else while genuinely being a good person. There are ZERO guarantees in this world and even if you do everything right, things may or may not be in your favor.

Give you a non-dating related example, I'm San Diego Comic Con junkie. I have ways of getting in without paying a cent, however I still go through the arduous procedures to buy tickets for my dad and brother. I made my SDCC MemberID, I got the link and I went to their online waiting room, stood in their virtual server for 45 minutes or so before the show was sold out. Well, fuck, it happens and there's no use getting angry about it being sold out.

As for a dating-related issue, there was a couple of ladies I interned with and I asked one of them out maybe two months after we finished our stint there. I got a wishy-washy response, I texted her a few days later and turns out she wasn't looking to date anyone at all. All right, fair enough. At least she was being honest with me because, I did everything you'd think is right. I was friendly with her, we made eachother laugh, we opened up to eachother and so on. I had also broken the touch barrier and everything, but nope. Nothing actually happened. Was I heartbroken and feeling shitty? You bet your ass.

Look, what I'm tryna say, it's trial and error. I just personally don't like errors.

neither do I...

[PintsizeBro]

There isn't a technical manual for dating because dating isn't a technical operation. It's dealing with human feelings and relationships, and those can be unpredictable things.

As Mikey says, you can do everything right and still not get the result you want. That's a feature, not a bug: you can't control other people's feelings or actions.

[Guest]

There isn't a technical manual for dating because dating isn't a technical operation. It's dealing with human feelings and relationships, and those can be unpredictable things.

As Mikey says, you can do everything right and still not get the result you want. That's a feature, not a bug: you can't control other people's feelings or actions.

I am aware of that but its the thought of my negative thinking somehow reinforcing these thoughts is what's troubling me...

(guess no one wants that cookie... )

[Hirundo Bos]

I used to not like errors too... I'm coming to appreciate them though. For one thing, error is a symptom of having tried. For another... those things that look like inscrutable thin lines and lists of info to memorize... what they really are are behaviors we're not good at performing consciously. Same kind as when we tie our shoelaces, or move video game characters around with our thumbs... or drive a car... and the role of errors in this is to improve our calibration, little by little, like with calibrating any instrument. Read and correct, read and correct, until our social perceptions start to add up with our social realities.

So that's how I'm starting to appreciate my errors. I'm starting to see how they're always information.

It does take a lot of practice though. Takes work, and time.

And as with driving a car, it's best to start out in a safe setting, not do the hard stuff right away. Not do things that can harm self or others. (Does anyone have some good rules of thumb for things to steer clear of at first?)

[fakely mctest]

How's your friending technique? I'd say that the closest thing you'll get to practice in terms of meeting people who seem nice and connecting with them in a relatively low-stakes way is by making new friends.

This is from the resources section of the board, which you may not have seen, so I'll link it here. It gives, what I think, is a really concise and easy to follow way of developing friendships: Katepreach's Friending Guide

I joke about how I meet people random places and then end up going on "friend dates," but it's kind of true once you're in an environment where friends might not be as easy to make (i.e., not school or a school-type setting). I chat them up and ask for their contact info and then reach out and make plans (or vice versa). And if a friendship happens that's great, but it doesn't always and, to me, it's less fraught with self-esteem bruising peril.

And I know you're really in "find a girlfriend" mode, but it might be worthwhile to back off that for a bit and get in some friending practice. And new friends are always a plus.

[Guest]

I am aware of that but its the thought of my negative thinking somehow reinforcing these thoughts is what's troubling me...

(guess no one wants that cookie... )

Then what you need is serious cognitive retraining/conditioning/something.

Because, honestly? Dating sounds like the least of your problems if you have this much negative thinking going on in your noggin. Dating is the wrong solution to a bigger problem. In your case, dating would be like taking anti-biotics to treat your cancer issues. Does that make sense at all? The solution you're looking at might not be the correct one in order to tune your negative thinking out.

I'm no expert, but as far as I know and from what you've said, dating is not the solution you're looking for. Some serious counseling is in order for you, and I know you said you went to a therapist, but go back to see someone.

[Guest]

I am aware of that but its the thought of my negative thinking somehow reinforcing these thoughts is what's troubling me...

(guess no one wants that cookie... )

Then what you need is serious cognitive retraining/conditioning/something.

Because, honestly? Dating sounds like the least of your problems if you have this much negative thinking going on in your noggin. Dating is the wrong solution to a bigger problem. In your case, dating would be like taking anti-biotics to treat your cancer issues. Does that make sense at all? The solution you're looking at might not be the correct one in order to tune your negative thinking out.

I'm no expert, but as far as I know and from what you've said, dating is not the solution you're looking for. Some serious counseling is in order for you, and I know you said you went to a therapist, but go back to see someone.

and fast...

[Enail]

Another thing, kind of bumping off of what Hirundo said, is that stuff sounds really complicated if you try to write down all the steps and explain how to approach every judgement call that might come up. So in a way, it's so complicated because he's trying to take something that doesn't really work as a technical operation and make a technical manual for it.

Imagine trying to explain how you walk to someone who'd never encountered the concept for some reason. You'd have to describe the starting position, how you lift up one foot (do you start with the thigh muscles or the calf muscles? how much force do you use?) and then how you advance it forward (how far?) and put it down (do you lay it flat or put the heel down first or the toe? how fast? how much pressure?) What's the other foot doing at that point? When do you start moving the other foot? How do you keep track of both feet at once and look where you're going? How much forward momentum can your upper body have before you fall down? What about on an uneven surface, how exactly do you change things so that you're still balanced? What about a slippery surface?

Even very simple tasks have a lot of detail if you break them down into the smallest steps possible. It's easy to walk without thinking about those things because you've practiced a lot (think of the way toddlers stumble around!) so that you don't have to consciously act out and evaluate every single aspect. But even someone who can walk fine normally, if you tell them to demonstrate slowly exactly how they normally walk, they'll start to question "wait, do I usually step with my left foot first?" and feel really awkward and unnatural.

A description of a social interaction is like that - there are a ton of steps to think about because it's trying to describe everything in the smallest detail. Some of it might be stuff you'd do naturally if you weren't thinking about it, or if it didn't make you so nervous in this particular context. Some of it might be stuff you have to think about in great detail now, but once you've practiced, it'll be natural like walking. Some of it's trying to create a flow chart for all the possibilities, but you're never going to be able to memorize all the possibilities, you just want to try and assimilate some general ideas to improve your judgement when you need to respond to something you didn't expect.

[Guest]

How's your friending technique?  I'd say that the closest thing you'll get to practice in terms of meeting people who seem nice and connecting with them in a relatively low-stakes way is by making new friends.

This is from the resources section of the board, which you may not have seen, so I'll link it here.  It gives, what I think, is a really concise and easy to follow way of developing friendships: Katepreach's Friending Guide

I joke about how I meet people random places and then end up going on "friend dates," but it's kind of true once you're in an environment where friends might not be as easy to make (i.e., not school or a school-type setting).  I chat them up and ask for their contact info and then reach out and make plans (or vice versa).  And if a friendship happens that's great, but it doesn't always and, to me, it's less fraught with self-esteem bruising peril.

And I know you're really in "find a girlfriend" mode, but it might be worthwhile to back off that for a bit and get in some friending practice.  And new friends are always a plus.

That's quite a good idea! maybe it will make meeting people much easier.

P.s. its more like "Find somebody, ANYBODY, anyone with a pulse will do" mode

[Guest]

Another thing, kind of bumping off of what Hirundo said, is that stuff sounds really complicated if you try to write down all the steps and explain how to approach every judgement call that might come up. So in a way, it's so complicated because he's trying to take something that doesn't really work as a technical operation and make a technical manual for it.

Imagine trying to explain how you walk to someone who'd never encountered the concept for some reason. You'd have to describe the starting position, how you lift up one foot (do you start with the thigh muscles or the calf muscles? how much force do you use?) and then how you advance it forward (how far?) and put it down (do you lay it flat or put the heel down first or the toe? how fast? how much pressure?) What's the other foot doing at that point? When do you start moving the other foot? How do you keep track of both feet at once and look where you're going? How much forward momentum can your upper body have before you fall down? What about on an uneven surface, how exactly do you change things so that you're still balanced? What about a slippery surface?

Even very simple tasks have a lot of detail if you break them down into the smallest steps possible. It's easy to walk without thinking about those things because you've practiced a lot (think of the way toddlers stumble around!) so that you don't have to consciously act out and evaluate every single aspect. But even someone who can walk fine normally, if you tell them to demonstrate slowly exactly how they normally walk, they'll start to question "wait, do I usually step with my left foot first?" and feel really awkward and unnatural.

A description of a social interaction is like that - there are a ton of steps to think about because it's trying to describe everything in the smallest detail. Some of it might be stuff you'd do naturally if you weren't thinking about it, or if it didn't make you so nervous in this particular context. Some of it might be stuff you have to think about in great detail now, but once you've practiced, it'll be natural like walking. Some of it's trying to create a flow chart for all the possibilities, but you're never going to be able to memorize all the possibilities, you just want to try and assimilate some general ideas to improve your judgement when you need to respond to something you didn't expect.

This!! Just This!! You nailed it right in the head!!
Also on a off topic note - a formation starts marching with the left foot, the pace and cadence almost always depending on the left foot. usually 120 steps per minute. Drill and Ceremony 101.

[Guest]

and fast...

I had a feeling you'd say that.

Spoiler:

Snarky remarks aside, watch this:


Even if you wanna learn quick, you need to dedicate yourself to fixing your problems, bro.

[Guest]

and fast...

I had a feeling you'd say that.

Spoiler:

Snarky remarks aside, watch this:


Even if you wanna learn quick, you need to dedicate yourself to fixing your problems, bro.

Am I really that predictable?
Will watch the video. thanks.

[fakely mctest]

That's quite a good idea! maybe it will make meeting people much easier.

P.s. its more like "Find somebody, ANYBODY, anyone with a pulse will do" mode

I hope it's helpful to you! The trick is to genuinely make friend-friends and not have things shade over into "relationship backdoor gambit" territory.

[Guest]

Am I really that predictable?
Will watch the video. thanks.

Going by previous posts, maybe just a tiny bit.

[Jayce]

I think most people have some back and forth struggle every week whether it is I'm stuck at this dead end job, can't get this math concept, women don't pay attention to me etc.. Most people are trying to accomplish something, and during that process sometimes they make progress, other times things don't turn out well.

You don't have to beat yourself up for having jerk brain thoughts, just try to get rid of them if they pop up.

For me sometimes jerk brain thoughts remain or come back to haunt me because the thing I said to re assure myself in response to that didn't work. E.g Jerkbrain: Keep dreaming, you'll never be cool, loser. Me: Well, people don't care whether I'm cool or not. Sometime later, I whine to myself how I wish I was a much cooler person. Even though I told myself people didn't care, I still cared if I felt cool or not.

Jerk brain thoughts go away a lot quicker when I do believe in what I'm saying to re assure myself. E.g Jerkbrain: Hey, how in the world are girls going to like you? You're just a nerd. Me: Well most girls don't care whether I'm nerdy or not, but you know what girls do care about? Whether I'm being relatable or not, that's whats important, connecting with other people.

Convincing jerkbrain is sometimes pretty hard. I would never have been able to convince myself women aren't going to make fun of me for being nerdy if I didn't put myself out there and talked about my nerdy interests with people I wanted to date.

If you can find a way to convince jerk brain to shut up, it really helps your mental health.

[Guest]

(Though I would not mind a badass super-strong secret agent cyborg from Japan with purple hair... 1 cookie to the first person knows who am I talking about!)  

Motoko Kusanagi.

Keep the cookie; I don't have a sweet tooth.

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