Possible revelations.

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Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:43 am

First things first, mods, if this is in the wrong subforum, I apologize in advance. I think this is half rant, half request for advice, but unsure.

At the beginning of the year, I, like many people, made a New Year's resolution. Mine was that I'd be in a relationship by the end of the year. Well, here three-quarters of the year is gone, and I haven't even been able to find a date, much less a relationship.

Now, part of this I can attribute to forgetting that I do have two jobs and I still take classes at the local college, which eats up time that I could be using for dating. But I think I'm partially having to attribute that my beliefs, while they seem perfectly sensible when applied to me, do not fully translate the way I'd expect when applied to the rest of the world. For instance, I think very dearly of my sister and my mother, and I try to live by the idea that if it's something I wouldn't do to or with my sister or my mother, it's not something I should be doing. Unfortunately, me suggesting that all men should refrain from doing such things is something that gets me scorn from persons on all sides of the gender aisle.

And I know I can do better than that. I know that everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and that my rights to have my beliefs end at the end of my body. I have no right to try and force my beliefs on anyone else. But at the same time, I'm frustrated because too many people take my beliefs as a colossal joke. I've had my dearest friends laugh when I even ask them for dating advice, because "who would ever consider dating a guy like me?" I know I'm not owed anything in terms of dating. I'm just wishing for a smidgen of success.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by bomaye on Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:00 am

Maybe tweak the mindset a bit. People don't date or have sex with their mothers and sisters, so when you say that it's kind of saying that no real dating is going to happen anyway?
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Enail on Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:41 pm

Have you looked into if there are any local groups for asexual people in your area or checked online dating sites? Since your feelings about sex are pretty far to one extreme, I think you'd do a lot better if you filtered for people who might share your lack of interest in having sex, even if their beliefs around it are not totally the same as yours.

And even if you don't meet dating-compatible people there, it might be good to spend some time around people who might have a better idea where you're coming from. A lot of people find it hard to wrap their heads around the idea of a non-sexual dating-type relationship - and your friends in particular are being assholes about it - so it seems like maybe it'd help to talk to people who get it.

Also, maybe spend a bit of time thinking about what dating means to you? You're focused on what you don't want, which makes sense since it's a pretty big factor and it's very important to you, but it's hard to find someone who wants to join in with you on your vision of a relationship if you don't have a sense of what that is, only what it's not. Also also, maybe think a bit about what you want in a partner - how important is it to you that your partner shares your beliefs? How would you feel about dating someone who is fine with not having sex with you, but doesn't believe there would be anything wrong with it if you wanted to? Would you ever consider an open relationship, where your partner could have sex with other people? People don't typically find partners who are their exact clones and share all of their beliefs, preferences and assumptions, so it's good to have a sense of where you can compromise and where not.

Finally, setting goals that depend on other people is generally a recipe for frustration. Maybe consider making goals about how many people you ask out or taking up activities that might put you in contact with likeminded people?
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:45 am

Dear friends.

No, you really don't need to hire someone to "fix" me, given I'm not "broken". Besides, that kind of hiring is illegal in this area.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:26 pm

I think I've accidentally stumbled across why my friends think the way they do; one of them accidentally let it slip that if I could find success in dating without sex, their wife might cut them off.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by rj3 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:54 pm

WJMorris3 wrote:I think I've accidentally stumbled across why my friends think the way they do; one of them accidentally let it slip that if I could find success in dating without sex, their wife might cut them off.

Care to unpack that a little bit? Do you believe your friend has an Ace wife, or that women in general are just "lying back and thinking of England" in order the other romance/relationship benefits they really want?

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Enail on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:08 pm

It sounds like it's his friend who thinks that (or whichever one of those), not him.

It's deeply disturbing that the friend doesn't see anything wrong with having sex with someone who he believes is only having sex with him because she doesn't realize it's possible to have a partner who doesn't want to have sex. But WJ, maybe for you it's a sign that this friend is not someone to look to for thoughtful opinions that have your best interests at heart on this subject, and that it's time for you to seek out some more supportive people?
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by rj3 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:05 pm

Enail wrote:It sounds like it's his friend who thinks that (or whichever one of those), not him.

It's deeply disturbing that the friend doesn't see anything wrong with having sex with someone who he believes is only having sex with him because she doesn't realize it's possible to have a partner who doesn't want to have sex. But WJ, maybe for you it's a sign that this friend is not someone to look to for thoughtful opinions that have your best interests at heart on this subject, and that it's time for you to seek out some more supportive people?

We also don't get tone here. I could easily imagine myself saying something like that in a wink-nudge way to mock the standard-issue hapless sex-starved married male sitcom protagonist, especially in response to the somewhat over-the-top way OP talks about sex. I'd hope my audience, knowing me and knowing the trope, got the point.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:25 pm

rj3 wrote:
Enail wrote:It sounds like it's his friend who thinks that (or whichever one of those), not him.

It's deeply disturbing that the friend doesn't see anything wrong with having sex with someone who he believes is only having sex with him because she doesn't realize it's possible to have a partner who doesn't want to have sex. But WJ, maybe for you it's a sign that this friend is not someone to look to for thoughtful opinions that have your best interests at heart on this subject, and that it's time for you to seek out some more supportive people?

We also don't get tone here. I could easily imagine myself saying something like that in a wink-nudge way to mock the standard-issue hapless sex-starved married male sitcom protagonist, especially in response to the somewhat over-the-top way OP talks about sex. I'd hope my audience, knowing me and knowing the trope, got the point.
Wait a minute. If it's over the top to not want sex, ever...

In any case, it's more along the lines of they're alpha and I'm... well, I don't even think I qualify as beta, I think I'm more of an epsilon.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Enail on Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:36 pm

It's not over the top to not want sex ever. I think Rj3 meant that you frame that desire in fairly dramatic terms, using very absolute phrases.

I'm not following what you're meaning by your friends being alpha and you not, can you elaborate on how that relates to what your friend said or the kind of opinions and advice they give you?
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:56 pm

Enail wrote:It's not over the top to not want sex ever. I think Rj3 meant that you frame that desire in fairly dramatic terms, using very absolute phrases.

I'm not following what you're meaning by your friends being alpha and you not, can you elaborate on how that relates to what your friend said or the kind of opinions and advice they give you?
They give me advice as if sex is the be-all, end-all of a relationship. Apparently I'm not really a man because I'm a virgin (at 33). Apparently I'm worthless as a boyfriend because I won't have sex. Nevermind that I was taught at a young age to keep my hands to myself!

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by reboot on Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:58 pm

Your friends sound rather narrow minded and insecure. I mean, if his wife heard that there are successful relationships that do not involve sex she would stop having sex with him?!?! Really?!? How sad and pathetic is it to think that? Not to mention admitting that his wife only has sex with him because she does not know other options exist.....
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:11 pm

Herein lies the problem. They're married. I'm not. So whatever they're doing works.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Wondering on Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:01 pm

Not if she's not happy with it and is only going along to get along, which is kind of what your friend said.

Like rj3 said, we don't really know what his wife thinks. But if he thinks she's only having sex because it's expected of her, not because she wants to, and he's still having sex with her despite that, that's all sorts of red flags for me.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Enail on Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:07 pm

And besides, you don't want the same kind of marriage they want, so whatever works for them probably wouldn't result in the right thing for you.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:59 pm

Point well taken; I just want something to work. The local asexual community seems to be nonexistent and OKCupid hasn't been much better.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by reboot on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:44 am

WJMorris3 wrote:Point well taken; I just want something to work. The local asexual community seems to be nonexistent and OKCupid hasn't been much better.

Have you considered Eharmony? They match on the importance of sex in a relationship and it is geared towards the LTR and marriage minded folks. It might be a better dating pool for you than OKC. It skews Christian, so not sure how you would feel about that.....
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:46 am

reboot wrote:
WJMorris3 wrote:Point well taken; I just want something to work. The local asexual community seems to be nonexistent and OKCupid hasn't been much better.

Have you considered Eharmony? They match on the importance of sex in a relationship and it is geared towards the LTR and marriage minded folks. It might be a better dating pool for you than OKC
Actually got rejected by them because I'm not interested in sex. Or at least that's the theory. (They said they couldn't provide high-quality matches for me.)

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by reboot on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:52 am

Huh. I know people who said sex was not important to them who use it, but I guess that is different than no interest, is it not?

Sounds like OKC and maybe plenty of fish might be your only OLD options and, like anyone with a more rare sexuality, it will be a longer and harder slog to find a suitable match. That sucks, but your needs are niche enough that it is likely unavoidable.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:41 am

reboot wrote:Huh. I know people who said sex was not important to them who use it, but I guess that is different than no interest, is it not?

Sounds like OKC and maybe plenty of fish might be your only OLD options and, like anyone with a more rare sexuality, it will be a longer and harder slog to find a suitable match. That sucks, but your needs are niche enough that it is likely unavoidable.
There's a definite difference between sex is not important and no sex is important.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by rj3 on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:39 pm

WJMorris3 wrote:
They give me advice as if sex is the be-all, end-all of a relationship. Apparently I'm not really a man because I'm a virgin (at 33). Apparently I'm worthless as a boyfriend because I won't have sex. Nevermind that I was taught at a young age to keep my hands to myself!

(emphasis mine)

This is what I mean. Wording like this comes off as hyperbole or self-deprecating sarcasm. Responding with something in a similar conversational style is a way of mirroring and showing they understand you. As it turns out, they don't. But that doesn't mean they believe what they said in the most literal interpretation.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:09 am

Three weeks left in the year and my OkCupid account is more filled with pre-rejections than anything else. I'm starting to think my best option is to hide my asexuality and just take things slow.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by readertorider on Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:05 pm

I always like taking things slow as an option to be perfectly honest. I do think your attitudes are unique enough though that you might want to be very discerning about who you approach. FWIW too I think typically people who identify as asexual have an attitude of 'sex is great, just not for me' which does seem like it would clash with your own--an extra layer of difficulty.

Also please just delete the 'pre-rejections'. The only people I can imagine who would send unsolicited rejections (middle schoolers playing a game? people insecure enough that they need to find others to put down?) are not people whose opinions I would give any weight to.

And just in case it didn't come through: good luck and best wishes! You put a lot more effort into trying to fulfill your new year's resolution than I did on mine--you just picked something that relies on a lot of extrinsic factors.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:26 pm

I think part of my problem is that I'm Catholic, and part of Catholic doctrine includes perpetual celibacy. Unfortunately a lot of my fellow Catholics have forgotten that part and have given in to sins of the flesh.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by reboot on Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:42 am

WJMorris3 wrote:I think part of my problem is that I'm Catholic, and part of Catholic doctrine includes perpetual celibacy. Unfortunately a lot of my fellow Catholics have forgotten that part and have given in to sins of the flesh.

OK, I am Catholic too, but I am unfamiliar with that part of the doctrine. Priests are supposed to be perpetually celibate, but married couples are supposed to have children, and the only way for that to happen is sex. In fact, in Corinthians on the topic of marriage, it says, "Do not deprive one another except when you both agree in a time which you devote to fasting and prayer, and you shall again return to pleasure, lest Satan tempt you because of the desire of your bodies."

But, I avoid Mass nowadays unless I am with my family, so I am not a great source on Catholic doctrine. Have you considered talking to your priest? They can be quite helpful counseling on these matters.
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