Possible revelations.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by BiSian on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:12 pm

Ummm, no.
The point of religious celibacy that you don't have a partner, AT ALL.
As in, refraining from sex is only part of the equation and frankly not the most important part. It's about dedicating oneself to God, serving God and the community with all your time and energy, and not having a romantic/family/sex life that makes other claims on your time and energy.
So, no. You're not being more righteous and holy by not wanting sex BUT pursuing a romantic partner.

That being said, if your religious upbringing is part of your adversion to sex, oooh damn can I relate (and many others on the Internet, go take a look). But based on what you've previously said, it seems that you're perfectly happy with your attitude toward sex and not looking to work through any religious-based brain weasels you might have.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by eselle28 on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:25 pm

Unfortunately a lot of my fellow Catholics have forgotten that part and have given in to sins of the flesh.

<mod>Hey, WJMorris3, we've talked about this in the past. This community is here to listen and offer advice about your desire to find a relationship that doesn't involve any sex, but this is not a place where it's appropriate to express opposition to anyone else having sex.

I would also urge you to be careful when discussing whether people are practicing their religion correctly or incorrectly. That ends up veering very close to our community's rule against disparaging broad groups of people.</mod>
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Wondering on Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:28 am

Uh, yeah, especially considering I'm a practicing Catholic, married, and have a kid. Who was conceived the old-fashioned way. Celibacy for all people is not Catholic doctrine. I haven't "forgotten" it; that was never the rule.

Actual catechism on marital sex: http://www.catechism.cc/articles/QA.htm#03

I've committed and continue to commit plenty of Catholic sins. Having sex with my husband is not one of them.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by BiSian on Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:59 am

Oh Christ (yay blasphemy!)according to that document, literally every time I'm having sex I'm commiting a sin. I mean, I'm not married and have an iud so I was already doomed. But still. No hands? No oral?! Not even as "foreplay" leading up to PiV?! Screeeeew that! Pun intended. Couldn't tell if toys are also banned...
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Wondering on Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:39 am

Sex rules written by an order of celibate men = creepy, weird, and unimaginative. Wink

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:21 pm

Wondering, just as a point, then why would every teacher I had in Catholic school tell me I'd be excommunicated if I had sex when I'm married?

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Wondering on Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:08 pm

I don't know. They were wrong. And I have a hard time reconciling that with my experiences in Catholic school from grade school through college.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Fraulein42 on Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:11 pm

Having gone to Catholic High School and Catholic college: That's not a thing?

There's no priest that would have said that. It's literally not Catholic doctrine, the whole point is to have sex TO HAVE BABIES. It's about not having non-procreative sex.

Also: You say you're asexual, which is an actual orientation, but then say that it's a choice based on your religion.

That's not how it works, and is appropriating a word that has an actual meaning. The word you are looking for is celibate, not asexual.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by BiSian on Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:19 pm

Wait. Just to confirm, you literally had teachers order you to get married but never have sex with your future spouse? Like, this was literally your religious and moral instruction growing up?
Cause yeah what wondering and fraulein said: that's not Catholic doctrine. And also? celibate marriage is not what most people want. Yeah there's some people that are Ace or not into sex. But being in a celibate long-term relationship is not even remotely desirable to a large chunk of the population. I can't believe religious teachers were actually advocating that. There's a reason the shakers died out.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Enail on Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:27 pm

WJ, I second Reboot's suggestion that you give it a talk with your priest. My impression is that you would not want to have sex whether or not Catholicism required it of you, but it seems like it would be helpful either way to hear the thoughts of a religious leader you trust about how to navigate relationships in a way that's true to your faith. And they might give you a different different perspective on it when you're coming to them as an adult seeking marriage, rather than as a kid in school.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by eselle28 on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:40 pm

<mod>WJMorris3, I just asked you to drop the subject of whether or not it's moral for others to have sex. I'm going to warn you formally to stop that line of discussion, even in terms of what your teachers might have told you. You don't feel it's moral for you to have sex, and people can give you advice based on that. There's no need to stretch it any further, as others aren't asking you about the morality of their sexual choices. If you can't comply with this request, a suspension will follow.

Everyone else, I'd ask that we drop the discussion of Catholic doctrine. It's off topic from the original post in this case. There is some space on the forums to discuss religious belief and practice, but as it's a subject that needs to be discussed carefully and respectfully, it's best done in threads that are specific to that purpose.

Fraulein42, asexuality and celibacy are absolutely two different things. However, there are asexual people who aren't celibate, and it's also possible for a person to both be asexual in orientation and to then choose to be celibate for religious reasons. Let's not get into telling people how they can self-identify!</mod>
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:41 pm

Okay, I'll stop before I get to meet St. Felicia, the patron saint of farewells.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by BiSian on Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:23 pm

Fair enough. To redirect then, I definitely do not suggest lying by omission while online dating particularly in the case of you having such very specific attitudes toward sex in relationships. Yeah you might get some more first dates but you'd really be wasting those women's time. Because once again, most women are sexual and expect to have sex with their partners. Going into a first date were you haven't disclosed that you personally will never be having sex with your partner, well she's going to be assuming that your sexual until she has information saying otherwise. And if you wait to disclose, is going to be more annoyance, more hurt feelings, more likelihood of you getting angry reaction instead of meh not for me.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:51 pm

I can appreciate that idea; however under the current setup (which I have it fully disclosed on my profile), I've gotten zero first dates. I'm afraid that when I finally do find a lady who is ace, I'm going to somehow screw up the first date given I don't remember my last actual date.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by eselle28 on Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:14 pm

I don't think asexuality is something that needs to be disclosed prior to a date, and I'm not opposed to people experimenting with practice dates so long as they don't lie and don't let things go on too long with someone they know is incompatible. However, I do worry a bit about anyone going on a date (even a first one) with someone who they know they're predisposed to judge negatively. Most of your potential dates will either have had sex in the past or will want to have it in the future. If you want these women to be in your pool of first dates, I think the only fair way to do so is if you were able to keep your opinions about the morality of having sex out of the conversation entirely. I think you may need to practice that a bit before it's an option. Otherwise, I think you may need to ethically limit your pool of dates to women who have disclosed that they're celibate and intend to stay that way.

If you want some practice, you might want to consider going to some speed dating events. That gives you a chance to practice greetings, talking to someone you don't know very well, overcoming nervousness, and the like in a setting where there's a bit easier of an out than there is when getting coffee.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by BiSian on Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:20 am

I don't have much to add beyond YES YES YES to everything eselle said.

You could also try changing HOW you present it on your profile. (Can't remember if you've had a profile looked at on the Review thread). It could be that you're presenting yourself and your sought-after relationship in a very unappealing way. Or it could be that no one you've messaged is interested in a sex-less realtionship. Have you been specifically messaging women who say they're ace or sort of carpet bombing? (considering how rare what you want is, I don't disapprove of carpet bombing as a tactic necessarily, but it's going to have a very low response rate).

Finally. If you do finally find an ace lady to go out with, it's entirely possible and even likely that it won't go anywhere more than once or twice. Such is the nature of dating, even dating within a small pool. Ask queer people. Ask kinky people.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:46 pm

Okay, so the resolution has officially crashed and burned. I think this year's goal will be to knock out another three grand of debt over the course of the year.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by reboot on Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:14 pm

WJMorris3 wrote:Okay, so the resolution has officially crashed and burned. I think this year's goal will be to knock out another three grand of debt over the course of the year.

That's a very practical resolution
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:34 pm

Ugh. Friend of mine pointed out that even Hitler had a girlfriend, as if that was any consolation.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Enail on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:50 pm

Wow, that sounds like a friend to never again talk about relationships with. Ugh.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:29 am

Enail wrote:Wow, that sounds like a friend to never again talk about relationships with. Ugh.
I know. As far as I am concerned, that reads to me as "you're less desirable than Hitler." Might just be my brain not parsing it right but that's what I got out of it.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by Enail on Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:38 am

I imagine it was intended to mean more like "there's someone for everyone," which is not particularly helpful but is at least meant to be encouraging, but wowwww that's an amazingly bad way to say it.
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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:13 am

Dear customer,

Remind me why again you think it's acceptable to reach into my pocket because you "needed to borrow a pen"?

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:19 pm

Things learned last night:

If a lady friend sends you two pictures of her in a swimsuit and asks if you see any difference, pointing out that the mirror and wall behind are different are not what she likely has in mind.

Oh well. Lesson learned.

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Re: Possible revelations.

Post by WJMorris3 on Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:19 pm

I don't know why I even try anymore. Was supposed to go out tonight, and got stood up - again. It's been quite a few different people; at this point, I'm convinced the problem is me.

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