Star Trek: Discovery
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Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:50 pm
Anyone watching? I just got around to the premiere. Mixed feelings, but I think it's got potential, at any rate. It didn't totally feel like good ol' Star Trek to me, but it didn't not feel like Star Trek, either. A few more specific thoughts:
- Premier (E1&2):
-All the Klingons sounded a little stilted. Also, looking pretty different!
-A brilliant, hotshot, nerve-pinching Vulcan-raised human with a tragic past and Sarek as a proud mentor is pretty much every 12-yr-old-girl's fantasy, this is a little too Mary Sue for my taste
-In general found it a bit too focused on heroics and dramatics, which I feel is a modern tendency that sometimes goes overboard, it looks like it's going to be pretty heavy on the war plot story arc, I was really hoping for a lot of good old-school Star Trek exploration and moral dilemma (especially since the main char is a xenoanthropologist) that could maybe find a balance between exciting, high-consequence action and something a little more chill and intellectual. That's something that the TV show format allows for much better than movies imo.
-Lt. Saru was interesting, I felt like they did a good job of giving us a feel for the species while still having a sense of the individual character and room for complexity rather than Planet of Hats shit. Look forward to hearing more about the Kelpians and hopefully some other alien characters.
-Nooo, Michelle Yeoh
At least I still get Jason Isaacs.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:43 am
I am PVRing! But I can't watch yet/no time, maybe not be able to until next week-ish.
I'm going in expecting it to be bags of modern lowest-common-denominator shit, so I'm hoping my low expectations I'll end up enjoying it
I'm going in expecting it to be bags of modern lowest-common-denominator shit, so I'm hoping my low expectations I'll end up enjoying it
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:14 am
Yeah, that's about how I went in, plus enough hope to make me give it the benefit of the doubt, and I did end up enjoying it (even though my spoilered stuff is mostly critical. 
That's how I roll.).
That's how I roll.).
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Werel Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:32 pm
I haven't gotten around to watching it yet, but of course I will because Star Trek. My hopes are at the sub-basement level like y'all's are/were (trailer looks like more JJ Abrams heresy 
) but maybe it'll be a pleasant surprise....?
) but maybe it'll be a pleasant surprise....?
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by KMR Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:58 pm
I watched episode 1 on TV sunday night and just watched episode 2. I also have mixed feelings about the show but ultimately am curious to see where it goes from here. And I have a lot of thoughts, so beware the essay behind the spoiler tag. 
- Spoiler:
- To be fair, most of my criticisms/concerns about the show are aesthetic and symbolic in nature, as well as rooted in my nostalgia for TNG/DS9-era Trek. So my big question is whether the show will be a step toward bringing back a more traditional type of Star Trek show or whether the goal will be to reinvent Star Trek for a more modern audience. I would obviously prefer the former, as I'm a big fan of the older Trek series, but the latter isn't inherently a bad thing (assuming the result is still high quality programming). After all, Star Trek changed quite a bit from the original series to its later incarnations, and I'm personally more a fan of post-Roddenberry Trek than I am of the original series, so I can't say that changing something about Trek is some horrible thing that betrays the idea of Star Trek itself. But, as I said, I do have a pretty strong nostalgia for TNG and DS9, so it's no surprise that I might have some personal distaste for anything that shifts too far from that baseline. (And it doesn't help that I'm currently watching TNG with my boyfriend, so the comparison is really fresh in my mind.)
But as I said, my main issues really are just aesthetic and symbolic, not necessarily criticisms of the overall quality of the show. The show has somewhat more the look and feel of JJ Abrams Trek than original Trek, which makes me concerned that the overall tone of the show will tend toward something more focused on action and drama than the classic intellectual tone of older Trek. I also really don't like the new Klingon aesthetics. For one, I'm not sure what the purpose was of taking such an iconic species and giving them a whole different look. I feel like making them look even more alien will tend toward a greater sense of the audience seeing them as "other" or "evil," which I guess makes some sense in the context of this show's timeline where they are the adversary, but because within Star Trek's overall history they have been both friend and foe, I don't much like seeing them portrayed this way. They sound really awkward speaking Klingon, too, like someone with a bad accent trying to slowly sound out each word... and it's really noticeable when so much of their dialogue is in Klingon.
I'm also kind of picky about continuity in Star Trek, because I'm reasonably knowledgeable about Trek lore, so I tend to notice continuity errors and retcons when they happen. So having a show set in Trek's past puts me a bit on edge about the potential for continuity issues to rub me the wrong way. I'm also concerned about the show throwing in familiar elements simply for the sake of pandering to fans, because that also rubs me the wrong way (I felt like this a lot when watching Enterprise). The inclusion of Sarek as a parental figure for Burnham feels a bit like this.
That aside, I thought the overall quality of the show was good. I liked the more diverse casting and the female leads. I quite enjoyed the way Burnham's actress portrayed her character's balance between Vulcan logic and mannerisms and human emotion. We've seen the "logical Vulcan" character a lot throughout the Trek series, which we don't really need more of, but this was a nice way to at least put a new spin on something familiar. There were also some cool visuals (my favorite was the image of Burnham in the brig after the hull has collapsed around the forcefield).
So yeah, really just curious where it's going to go at this point. My hope is that despite my nitpicking, I can still find the show enjoyable for what it is.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:18 pm
- Spoiler:
- You're spot-on on all of that, KMR! I'm pretty rusty on continuity, so I'd sort of say they should be able to get away with a lot of sloppiness for me, except I do feel a lotof moments of "wait, is that different?" and "but what does that mean for..." even without the memory to really know for sure. And I do suspect they're setting it when they are because it will allow a lot of throwing in familiar elements for the fans while also being pretty easy to introduce the setting without a lot of the explanation that it'd likely entail to put it closer to late TNG/DS9 era or soon after when there's a lot of political history involved.
I'd definitely have liked a more traditional Star Trek too, which I'd say it very much wasn't, but I have a little hope that maybe they're trying to capture the new audience with some flashy JJ Abrams Trek for the pilot and they might settle down into some more intellectual, exploration-and-deep-questions stories further into the season. Nothing specific to make me say it, but I had a general feel that even though this intro wasn't about those kinds of things they also might not be ruling them out either?
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Werel Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:59 pm
Watched the premiere episodes... gonna be rolling like Enail, pretty much 99% bitchy wall of text behind the spoilers
I'll hang around to see what happens when the series actually starts, maybe they'll start nudging closer to concepts like "discovery" and "exploration" and "interesting moral dilemmas", but the premiere was about as depressing as I expected.
- e1&2:
-This wasn't even a pilot episode. Pilot episodes are about establishing the cast of characters, the setting, the general issues the protagonists might face. This was a long standalone backstory for a main character I don't particularly like or care about at this point.
-Visuals weren't bad, but I can deal with a show looking as bad as Enterprise as long as it's got some heart. Which, this one...
-Burnham: Why should I like this person? We've got an arrogant, reckless, violent, mutineering jerk who doesn't seem to have personal relationships with anyone at all except those in position of direct authority over her, so... heck yeah, let's have her be literally the only character who even survives these episodes? I guess they're setting up a redemption arc, but those usually work best if you start the audience off with a little sympathy for your antihero. Like sure she's a conflicted Vulcan-Human like Spock that's neat whatever, but even Abrams Spock isn't this much of an ass.
-The captain was fairly likable, cause she actually seemed invested in/capable of upholding Starfleet's goals and values, but now she's dead and irrelevant
-ONE BRIGHT SPOT: I liked Lt. Saru. He was probably my favorite part of the pilot, and I hope maybe he's not dead. His species concept is the most interesting piece of actual science fiction in this whole episode, and I'm permitting myself a tiny shred of hope that they'll do something interesting with it later.
-So the moment our protagonist pays some lip service to the spirit of curiosity and exploration ("DISCOVERY," you might say), and takes a fun little jaunt to check out a weird relic, she's rewarded with... a major military conflict? Great. Totally the vibe I'm looking for from Star Trek.
-At least one thing hasn't changed in Star Trek: if there's a potentially dangerous situation, send a top-ranking officer into it all alone.
-I hate the Klingons. Haaaaaate 'em. Why are they talking so slowly. Why is half their dialogue clearly dubbed over and not lined up very well with their lips. Get them a fucking speech coach if they're having trouble delivering lines through those stupid facial prosthetics. Armin Shimerman can teach them. I don't care if you change Klingons, that's happened so many times already, but why call them Klingons if they're just gonna be Generic Big Bald Othered Monster of the Week. No discernable motives other than "let's destroy the Federation... because... this one dude... thinks we should..." and within about 5 minutes the whole High Council is just "yup sure why not"
Yes, exactly this. Chuck the nuance, replace with xenophobic caricature, spend the majority of your time lingering lovingly on explosions and destructionKMR wrote:I feel like making them look even more alien will tend toward a greater sense of the audience seeing them as "other" or "evil," which I guess makes some sense in the context of this show's timeline where they are the adversary, but because within Star Trek's overall history they have been both friend and foe, I don't much like seeing them portrayed this way.
-They talked about Klingon warriors dying in battle for ONE AND A HALF episodes before saying the word Stovokor. I was sitting there like THEY'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO SAY STOVOKOR, THIS IS THE MOST SHAMELESS UNNECESSARY RETCON OF ALL TIME
(do you think I forgave them when they finally said it? No. Of course not. I'm that kind of Star Trek fan.)
-Another bright spot, even though it didn't make any damn sense: the visual of tractor-beaming all the Klingon corpses back to the ship was cool. We can pretend that Klingons haven't overtly stated that corpses are meaningless shells.
-Moral of the story for these episodes: Preemptive strikes are good and right. Mutiny is merited, including direct violence against your CO. The Other has a culture so simplistic that a foreigner who's never interacted directly with it can understand it well enough to correctly predict their every move. Starfleet computers have better ethics subroutines in 2256 than Starfleet officers.
-If this show doesn't develop half a soul pretty soon I'm going to feel some real grief for the Star Trek TV franchise, because this wholesale upending of Trek's ideologies and values is a lot more disturbing than the innocuous shittiness of Enterprise.
-(ETA: Although my boyfriend just said "hey what if 3 or 4 episodes in they reveal that this is actually all in the mirror universe" and while that's way too cool to be the case, I'd immediately be entirely on board with this series if it happened)
I'll hang around to see what happens when the series actually starts, maybe they'll start nudging closer to concepts like "discovery" and "exploration" and "interesting moral dilemmas", but the premiere was about as depressing as I expected.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:26 pm
- Spoiler:
- Yeah, the "pre-emptive strike because that's the only thing these warlike aliens will ever respect" was really troubling to me. It's so un-Star Trek. I'm really hoping they're planning to make this a show where they're setting something up at the start to disassemble and complicate it as they go forward, but it's pretty much just blind hope thus far. And it's sort of like they wanted the MC to need a redemption arc and yet couldn't stand to make her not be right about everything and thus undermine the concept of a redemption arc.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by KMR Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:07 pm
- Spoiler:
- Werel wrote:
-Another bright spot, even though it didn't make any damn sense: the visual of tractor-beaming all the Klingon corpses back to the ship was cool. We can pretend that Klingons haven't overtly stated that corpses are meaningless shells.
Heh, this was one of my continuity nitpicks too. I was so confused as to why they were bringing in all those corpses.
Although a more egregious continuity issue is: Klingon ships aren't supposed to have cloaking devices yet. Klingons acquire cloaking technology as a result of an alliance with the Romulans in 2268.* It's at this time that Klingons get their iconic bird-of-prey type ships, which as the name suggests, are based on Romulan design.
*I looked up the date in my handy Star Trek: Encyclopedia, because I am a nerd.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:08 am
E1+2
It's like a mashup of a JJ Abrams movie and Enterprise.
It's like a mashup of a JJ Abrams movie and Enterprise.
- Spoiler:
I want crew members to care about and strange new/familiar worlds and winks and hints about Star Trek's past like the last season of Enterprise did really well, please. I'm not so into War For the Planet of The Apes + Orange is the New Black, starring Tumblr'sMaryLarry Sue, dressed over with buzzwords like "Klingon" and familiar bleeps and bloops in an attempt to pander to the franchise
Werel wrote:
- e1&2:
-(ETA: Although my boyfriend just said "hey what if 3 or 4 episodes in they reveal that this is actually all in the mirror universe" and while that's way too cool to be the case, I'd immediately be entirely on board with this series if it happened)
- Spoiler:
Sorry, Brony. The Mirror Universe diverged when humans shot the Vulcan during First Contact, as depicted in Enterprise Season 4, which also had this really badass intro that also features the Terran Empire wiping the floor with the Klingons.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Werel Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:11 pm
Ahhh crap you're right, I forgot they showed the Klingon thing in that Enterprise intro (though I don't know how I could forget anything about the greatest intro sequence ever). STILL... we can dream...bomaye wrote:
- Spoiler:
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:23 am
S1 E3
So I'm only like 20 mins in and Michael...
Episode finished now
So I'm only like 20 mins in and Michael...
- Spoiler:
... just mentioned being confused because she thought she was working on astrophysics and it's biology instead and I was like "Oh shit son, we're doing Genesis
Episode finished now
- Spoiler:
Maybe not Genesis
Settled into it better now that I know it's freaky, edgy, Section 31-ish Trek.
I lol'ed when the Captain initiated a in-ship site-to-site transport, that shit was considered mega-dangerous even into TNG era I think.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:50 am
S1E4
That was easily the best Michael episode, and I'm definitely getting more invested in Klingon politics
That was easily the best Michael episode, and I'm definitely getting more invested in Klingon politics
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:36 pm
- S1E3:
They're still spending wayyyy too much effort on finding reasons for people to talk about how impressive Birnam is. And in general I feel like they're trying to hard to force us to care about the characters as much as possible; it's not that they're not decent characters (particularly glad Cmdr Saru's still around), but I don't like being pushed.
But it's definitely getting more engrossing with all the dark science mystery shit, and there's some interesting bits that make me think the ways it doesn't feel like Trek might actually be going somewhere, that they may have something to say other than "war and grimdark are cooler." I felt deeply, genuinely sad that our once-utopian future is casually using prison slave labour, and that plus the pilot ep being all about Starfleet's wrong, you've got to shoot first (and things will probably be awful anyway), it just seemed like this is a show that's decided there's no place for optimism, which to me is integral to Star Trek, and that they didn't even notice that it's not just supposed to be aliens and explosions.
But Captain Jason Isaacs and Lt. I-haven't-learned-the-characters-names-yet both said things about discovery and diplomacy being what they should be doing but war's in the way, the fact that it's a science ship being forced very reluctantly into military order, felt like maybe a hint that that's what the writers are doing too. And then offering her a chance to end the war through peaceful sciencing, buuuuut maybe that's a lie and it's biological warfare after all, but maybe it's something....else... I have a little bit of hope that they do know what messages they're sending and what Star Trek means, and that this might be a story about figuring out how Star Trek hope, exploration and understanding can exist in a world of war, cynicism and paths whose ends you can't see. Which I'd find a very interesting storyline and also I think would be a very meaningful question for a Star Trek in this day and age.
But very disappointed to learn they haven't cured allergies yet And I was shocked at the in-ship site-to-site transporter, so casually too.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:41 am
- Spoiler:
There's no way this isn't a Section 31 op (and yes, they already exist, they existed back in the Enterprise era), so I think we're just getting like DS9, the dark underbelly of the our bright, positive future.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:57 pm
- Spoiler:
- But DS9 still had a fundamental hopefulness, it showed that the world wasn't as perfect or as simple as we'd thought, that sometimes you have to do the dirty work or whatever it takes to win a war, that it's hard to hope and to strive for peace and understanding, or even to figure out what choices are true to those values - but I always felt like it believed that it's ultimately worth doing. And that they wanted to use the darker setting to talk about how hard those choices can be and to question how you know what's right, that it had something to say on the philosophical level that the bright shiny futures of TOS and TNG had created a need and a space to be said.
Whereas in the first episode of Discovery, I felt like the writers might just believe in action sequences and cool heroes who know you can't talk to warlike aliens until you've punched them in the face enough, that it was there for the trappings of Star Trek and not the heart of it. Like, I felt like DS9 would have had prison slave labour to say something about the world, whereas this one might just want to tell a cool redemption story and it sounds better if their awesome hero's being sent to a mine, without really thinking about whether prison slave labour does fit into their take on the future or not (it might - but I want to know they're thinking about it). But I am definitely starting to see some hope they're going for more of a DS9 direction after all, maybe even that starting with the action shit and the casual cynicism is actually part of telling a different story about the place of hope in that kind of world. I think they're thinking about it.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:17 pm
Definitely getting into it more now.
- S1E4:
-So she joins up under assurance that she's just working on transportation, not weapons, he's immediately like "okay, great, now that you're here, make me a weapon from this monster," and she's just like "...damn."
-it's a weird feeling having the captain be the morally sketchy one, especially when we've also been given reason to doubt the main character's ability to act on her morals in a way that works out, and she's probably going to be doubting herself when faced with tough decisions, too. I think Cmdr. Saru's the closest thing to a moral compass character we've got.
-Engineer guy makes me LOL, I like him
-Getting into cool Klingon politics potential. And I think they're getting a little better at speaking Klingon, too.
-Superpowered giant-microbe manatee!
-I'm feeling more comfortable that the writers know what they're saying and it's not just "yay, war is when things go boom!" Not necessarily going to get into anything too deep or complex about it, I suspect but I can enjoy it a lot more when I'm not wondering if the writers even like Star Trek/science/friendly aliens at all.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:31 am
S1E5
- Spoiler:
- Saru makes me think "Mass Effect" for some reason.
- That list of captains. Robert April and Christopher Pike (the captains that preceeded Kirk), whatserface from the first episode (I can never remember how to spell her name), Johnathan Archer from Enterprise, Matthew Decker who's still active (he was in one of those Doomsday Machine episodes of TOS, I guess this was set 10 years before TOS?)
- Haaaaaaaaaaa Harry Mudd
- Poor Tardigrade
- I was actually worried Tyler was gonna eat it while they were shooting with Disruptors (Klingons ofc don't have a "stun" setting) and because this seems a show that's not too worried about killing off people.
- D'awww, Lorca doesn't fix his eyes because it reminds him how he killed his crew to prevent their torture etc on the Klingon homeworld.
- Also are we sneakily doing Islam here? T'Kuvma basically declared the Caliphate and Klingons do some very ISIS-like things to prisoners.
- The gay acting seemed a little stiff tbh. Like either the actors wanted the job but are kinda trying to force themselves "gay". When the Doctor held Stamets, I thought of those stories from ye olden days where they needed to see daylight between kids at school dances.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:59 pm
- S1E5:
-they say "fuck" on Star Trek now
-Her attempt to convince Saru was so bad. It was also really un-Vulcan. She basically never does anything Vulcan-ish unless the writers randomly remember it'd be cool.
-Mudd cameo
-Lorca backstory!
-Leaving Mudd there just for a little, obvious spying, that's pretty cold. Lorca is sure not your classic Trek captain.
-of course instantly after Saru insists on ignoring Birnam and doing a jump, the tardigrade falls to pieces. That's a little too much convenient being right.
-also, of course humans are the one match
-That escape was remarkably easy. Are Klingons supposed to be ridiculously badass or not, make up your minds!
-Engineer sacrificed himself....oh wait, no, still alive. And laughing. Crazily...
-Aww, Saru and Birnam make up.
-And now he knows what he did and doesn't have to endlessly evaluate it anymore.
-Engineer and Dr-he-hates are a couple I didn't think they were that stiff, though I can see what you mean.
-my wife now wants a fancy space toothbrush
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:29 pm
Enail wrote:
- S1E5:
-they say "fuck" on Star Trek now
(BTW, my facebook feed is saying Season 2 has already been greenlit)
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:46 pm
S1 E6
Probably my favourite episode so far
Probably my favourite episode so far
- Spoiler:
- I totally feel like Ash Tyler was turned by the Klingons, he's gonna backstab the crew at some point
- Eyyyyy, Vulcan suicide bombers.
- Command officers with benefits
- Wooooow, Burnham's a perfectionist because Sarek made her be one, and then he chose Spock over her, who chose Starfleet over Sarek's choice. Fuuuuuuuck
- Lorca's on her immediately with a Phaser set to kill, man that guy is so messed up.
- I can guarantee that he felt something would go wrong with the Admiral's mission before she boarded, nevermind making sure she got captured so he wouldn't have to step down as Captain.
BTW with all this Katra business, Sarek and Burnham have tickled each other and then Sarek tickled Picard later on, meaning there's a part of Burnham that tickled Picard in the future too, and they all tickled Spock together after Sarek died.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:50 pm
E6
- Spoiler:
-I was also thinking Ash Tyler's got to have been turned, he was awfully convenient and useful, and got rocketed to a whole lot of screen time awfully quickly.
-Lorca's making a point of recruiting people outside of the normal chain of command and giving them what they need, he's looking for personal loyalty from people who will break the rules, you've got to wonder if he's wanting to set things up for in case he has to go fully rogue at some point and wants to bring his crew with him.
-All the Vulcan stuff still feels pretty Mary Sue to me, but the bit with choosing Spock over her was quite sad
-Wow, Lorca pulls a phaser on his bedmate, that's fucked up. And now his command's at risk, something tells me the Admiral's going to have a tragic accident pretty soon. Was that scar a Starfleet symbol or just a triangle?
-Poor Tyler, he's spent 7 months in a Klingon prison, and he's the one who has to play therapist?
-There we go, an accident of Klingon betrayal
-Lorca following Starfleet rules like the Admiral wanted so as to not rescue her and tank his career could be showing his internal conflict wanting to give a nod to what she wanted even though he's not going to change paths from it, but I think it's probably more of a fuck you to her, if not a particularly happy one.
Sounds a lot weirder when you call it tickling
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:46 pm
Enail wrote:E6
- Spoiler:
-Poor Tyler, he's spent 7 months in a Klingon prison, and he's the one who has to play therapist?
- Spoiler:
I was watching that and going "This is so fucking Millennial right now. Meet a torture POW and then just dump all of your first-galaxy daddy issues on him."
- Spoiler:
Sounds a lot weirder when you call it tickling
- Spoiler:
Mind sexing?
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by Enail Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:58 pm
bomaye wrote:
- Spoiler:
Mind sexing?
- Spoiler:
- Not getting any less weird, but sounding way more incestuous
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery
by bomaye Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:40 am
S1 E7
Holy shit
Holy shit
- Spoiler:
- Do you think Picard played beer pong in his rambunctious youth? These are like his grandparents generation after all.
- "D'awww space whale- OH SHIT THERE'S A GUY IN THAT SPACE WH- Harry Mudd? Come on new Trek, why are you screwing with canon, Harry Mudd wasn't a badas- HE BLEW UP THE SHIP HOLY SHIT TIME LOOP"
- See, Stamets brought up that Tyler is surprisingly put together for someone who was tortured for 7 months. That's a throwaway line that's gonna show up in the episode preview where Tyler finally reveals he's a Klingon saboteur
- And of course, the emotionally vulnerable but closed Burnham has a thing for a guy who can still hold himself together are being tortured for months.
- I loved the "passing notes" line, like Mudd and Stamets are eternal time rivals knowing they always keep fucking each other up
- Pretty hardcore of Burnham to kill herself like that
- They're a little too lucky that Mudd didn't kill Lorca after returning to regular time.
- Stella and her father. Holy shit, they replicated the bad '60s space fashion of OG Star Trek perfectly
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