I am so incredibly stupid

[Guest]

I don't remember why I did this, but I decided to read all of the Facebook messages traded between me and the only girl I ever had a serious romantic connection with (who will be referred to as Her).

Thus the title.

I missed so many signals. So many. So many ones that are obvious to me now. And now she's dating a guy and she's happyish with him and has no time for me. And I very well could've been happy with Her. I don't know. But either way, I've been mentally torturing myself about this because I was legit in love with her and I fucked up so incredibly badly. And if not for my own stupidity, I could've been happy.


This objectively is why I will never be happy. Yeah yeah, one-nitis and such, blah blah. But I'm not getting another chance like that again. I'm simply not good enough for that. Yes there's billions of girls in the world, very few are both blind and stupid.

I don't deserve to be happy, not after reading how incredibly mean I was to her in my own insecure rage and self-hatred, how I more or less drove Her away into another man's arms (a man with a seven inch cock as opposed to my measly five). I've punched myself in the face enough already to leave a bruise, as punishment for my stupidity.

All this suffering, the scars and the depression and nearly failing out of school, I deserve all of it. Every last bit of it. I must suffer for the rest of my life as penance for missing the only opportunity I'll ever get with a woman.

[The Wisp]

All this suffering, the scars and the depression and nearly failing out of school, I deserve all of it. Every last bit of it. I must suffer for the rest of my life as penance for missing the only opportunity I'll ever get with a woman.

No, you don't deserve it. Yes, it hurts a lot to realize that you've missed such an opportunity. I get it. No, you don't deserve to suffer for the rest of your life for that.

I don't deserve to be happy, not after reading how incredibly mean I was to her in my own insecure rage and self-hatred, how I more or less drove Her away into another man's arms

So, are you going to work to become a person who does deserve to find love, or are you going wallow in your pain?

[Andrew Corvero]

I missed so many signals. So many. So many ones that are obvious to me now. And now she's dating a guy and she's happyish with him and has no time for me. And I very well could've been happy with Her. I don't know. But either way, I've been mentally torturing myself about this because I was legit in love with her and I fucked up so incredibly badly. And if not for my own stupidity, I could've been happy.

Hindsight is 20/20. However you don't know what would have happened. Nobody does. Yes, you might have made mistakes. However you can learn from them, in order not to do them again.

We've all human beings, sometimes we mess up. Sometimes we mess up pretty badly. The real good person isn't the one who never makes mistakes, it's the one who acknowledge that they were wrong, make amends and starts all over again.

You've already seen what you did wrong. Make peace with it and use it as a learning experience for your future.

This objectively is why I will never be happy. Yeah yeah, one-nitis and such, blah blah. But I'm not getting another chance like that again. I'm simply not good enough for that. Yes there's billions of girls in the world, very few are both blind and stupid.

"Never" is a big word and one that you shouldn't use when it comes to your life. It's self-limiting. The fact that you've seen your mistakes already makes you better than the person you were before. That's a big improvement and, if you use it well, you can accomplish a lot.  

All this suffering, the scars and the depression and nearly failing out of school, I deserve all of it. Every last bit of it. I must suffer for the rest of my life as penance for missing the only opportunity I'll ever get with a woman.

You don't deserve the suffering, but I will also tell you one thing:

if you condemn yourself to suffering, you're not becoming a better person. You're not improving yourself or the world. You're not learning from your mistakes and growing up. You're actually wasting a useful lesson and a huge opportunity! And I know you don't want that.

We all fall. But it's just to rise again.

[Hirundo Bos]

On the topic of missed signals, that's something I suspect has happened to many... if nothing else because it's happened to me a lot, I mean a lot. But what I take away from it is different from you. It's a reminder to me that I do in fact meet people who are attracted me, somewhat frequently. And I think it's possible to get some practice with signals, even for those of us who struggle with that sort of thing – practice with recognizing them, and just as important, trusting them.

[reboot]

On the topic of missed signals, that's something I suspect has happened to many... if nothing else because it's happened to me a lot, I mean a lot. But what I take away from it is different from you. It's a reminder to me that I do in fact meet people who are attracted me, somewhat frequently. And I think it's possible to get some practice with signals, even for those of us who struggle with that sort of thing – practice with recognizing them, and just as important, trusting them.

I guarantee it has happened to everyone at some point and in some context.

[Andrew Corvero]

On the topic of missed signals, that's something I suspect has happened to many... if nothing else because it's happened to me a lot, I mean a lot. But what I take away from it is different from you. It's a reminder to me that I do in fact meet people who are attracted me, somewhat frequently. And I think it's possible to get some practice with signals, even for those of us who struggle with that sort of thing – practice with recognizing them, and just as important, trusting them.

I guarantee it has happened to everyone at some point and in some context.

We're humans. We make mistakes.

[PintsizeBro]

One could argue that this is why signals don't work: so damn many people miss them. If she was, in fact, dropping hints that you didn't get, you aren't the only one who made mistakes. She also made the mistake of communicating in a way that you didn't understand.

As to this other guy, his penis is not why she's with him instead of you. Why do you even know about his penis?

[waxingjaney]

Why do you even know about his penis?

He keeps detailed files on human anatomy.

Anyway, the fact that there were signals in the first place and that he now knows what they look like, does constitute progress.

[reboot]

Why do you even know about his penis?

He keeps detailed files on human anatomy.

Anyway, the fact that there were signals in the first place and that he now knows what they look like, does constitute progress.

And I am guessing these were communications from late high school/college since Glides is 21-22 (I think). No surprise to look back at interactions from that age and go "D'oh!"!!

[Enail]

This objectively is why I will never be happy. Yeah yeah, one-nitis and such, blah blah. But I'm not getting another chance like that again. I'm simply not good enough for that. Yes there's billions of girls in the world, very few are both blind and stupid.

So...you were in love with her, but you think she's blind and stupid? This is an excellent example of insecurity leading towards meanness - you know now that's something that can drive someone you care about away, so try to learn from that. When you find yourself getting wrapped up in self-hatred, try to stop every so often and check with yourself how it's affecting what you think about other people and how you behave with them.  

There will be other girls, if one person liked you chances are pretty good that others will too - so you need to find a way to accept it if they see you differently from how you see yourself, and to respect them even if you think they're wrong. This is really, really important to being able to have loving relationships with other people when you hate yourself.

I've punched myself in the face enough already to leave a bruise, as punishment for my stupidity.

Hey, don't do this. Even if it deserved punishment, you're already hurting about feeling like you ruined your chance with her and feeling like you'll never have another chance, that seems like a pretty solid punishment. You don't need to punish yourself, cause and effect is up to the task.

[Guest]

One could argue that this is why signals don't work: so damn many people miss them. If she was, in fact, dropping hints that you didn't get, you aren't the only one who made mistakes. She also made the mistake of communicating in a way that you didn't understand.

As to this other guy, his penis is not why she's with him instead of you. Why do you even know about his penis?

She told me.

[Guest]

And I am guessing these were communications from late high school/college since Glides is 21-22 (I think). No surprise to look back at interactions from that age and go "D'oh!"!!

Senior year of high school. She was a freshman back then.

We're still friends, but it's one of those "i'm only your friend so I can be around you" type of deals. She's back home, I'm where I am now, we don't talk nearly as often.

Like I said, I was absolutely head over heels for her, and it was my spectacular ruination of the potential relationship that instigated this tail-spin into several suicide attempts and nearly failing out of grad school repeatedly. Looking back at it, me scaring her off coincided with a few weeks before I started posting in the original forum. You all remember what I was like back then? That was me in complete grief mode.

And yeah, someone said hindsight is 20/20, I only know I've done something wrong after I've done it. Couple days ago I flirted with a girl at a movie theater (already had her number), and like a complete dumbass texted her "I chickened out on trying to kiss you this time, I'm a giant fucking coward. Maybe I'll try next time I see you." Needless to say, no response.

I mean, it's that bad every time I attempt to get with a girl, I shoot myself in the foot. 99.9% of the time, she has no interest. In the .00000000000000000000000000001% chance that she does, I sabotage myself. It's a very vicious cycle, and it exacerbates all of the suicidal ideation and all that fun shit. Trust me, no one bombs spectacularly with women better than me. I actually tell stories of how horribly I've done with women as a substitute for sex stories, when I'm not lying between my teeth and pretending to be sexually experienced.

So my one chance was with Her, and I completely ruined it by more or less telling her to find someone else because I didn't deserve her, and so she did. I can hardly blame her for suddenly developing standards.

[Guest]

I've punched myself in the face enough already to leave a bruise, as punishment for my stupidity.

Hey, don't do this. Even if it deserved punishment, you're already hurting about feeling like you ruined your chance with her and feeling like you'll never have another chance, that seems like a pretty solid punishment. You don't need to punish yourself, cause and effect is up to the task.

As long as I don't get brain damage from it, several good punches to the face (not near the teeth, I need those) does the trick. Usually I go for the temples, since I don't want black eyes or anything. I'm not even hitting myself at full force so I don't bleed or crack a bone or something, I just need to feel pain and see the effects of that pain so I know how horrible I am. If I didn't read the Facebook messages I wouldn't be reminded of my mistakes and I wouldn't have to hurt myself. Bruising is ideal, bruises heal.

Or if I'm not feeling up to it, I'll slap myself really hard. I dunno, that's as bad as I've ever gotten, the sight of blood makes me nauseous.

[Caffeinated]

Couple days ago I flirted with a girl at a movie theater (already had her number), and like a complete dumbass texted her "I chickened out on trying to kiss you this time, I'm a giant fucking coward. Maybe I'll try next time I see you." Needless to say, no response.  

I just have to say that no response doesn't necessarily make it a negative response. When I read that, I don't immediately see what a person could say back. (Actually, it's easier to think of a negative thing to say back, along the lines of just wanting to be friends or whatever.) But imagine you're the girl receiving the text, and you're a little insecure, maybe a little shy, and can't think of something clever to say in response, and then some time goes by and now it feels like it's too late to say something back, so you just say nothing rather than put your foot in your mouth, but you keep looking at that text and smiling to yourself that someone wants to kiss you...

I'm just saying. If you think that no response is automatically a negative response, you're lacking imagination in this case.

[Enail]

As long as I don't get brain damage from it, several good punches to the face (not near the teeth, I need those) does the trick. Usually I go for the temples, since I don't want black eyes or anything. I'm not even hitting myself at full force so I don't bleed or crack a bone or something, I just need to feel pain and see the effects of that pain so I know how horrible I am. If I didn't read the Facebook messages I wouldn't be reminded of my mistakes and I wouldn't have to hurt myself. Bruising is ideal, bruises heal.  

It sounds like you already "know" how horrible you are (in quotations because I think you're wrong), whether or not you injure yourself. Why do you need to enforce that physically?

Everyone fucks up sometimes and ends up with something they regret, try and be a little kinder to yourself about it, okay? There's no need to rub it in and make it feel worse than it already does.

[Guest]

It sounds like you already "know" how horrible you are (in quotations because I think you're wrong), whether or not you injure yourself. Why do you need to enforce that physically?

Everyone fucks up sometimes and ends up with something they regret, try and be a little kinder to yourself about it, okay? There's no need to rub it in and make it feel worse than it already does.

I don't deserve kindness.

Another example: went to a part (didn't drink for once), and there was this unbelievably hot girl there. She got shit-faced and started dancing, almost like a stripper would. And I immediately felt three emotions: unbelievable desire, unbelievable anger at knowing I had no chance with her, and unbelievable shame for being unable to get with her.

Bad sex is better than no sex, y'all. Just saying. No one wants to kill themselves over bad consensual sex.

[PintsizeBro]

If somebody's that drunk, you're better off not having sex with them. There's a good chance they're not sober enough to consent. And even if they are, there's a non-zero chance that you'll get puked on.

[Guest]

If somebody's that drunk, you're better off not having sex with them. There's a good chance they're not sober enough to consent. And even if they are, there's a non-zero chance that you'll get puked on.

Well yeah, wasn't going to try anything because of that, I guess it was more of a "if this girl was sober, she wouldn't even look at me" kinda anger.

I might be a virgin, but that doesn't mean I don't know what enthusiastic consent is.

[Andrew Corvero]

I don't deserve kindness.

Would you say that to another person suffering from what you're suffering? I bet you wouldn't. So why don't you use the same standards you use for others when you think about yourself?

I bet you are and wish to be a kind, compassionate person who wouldn't tell people who are suffering because of their psychological problems that they don't deserve kindness. Why do you tell yourself things that you wouldn't tell others? Aren't you a human being just like anyone else?

You DO deserve kindness. Everyone deserves kindness. The world would be a better place if people were more kind to one another.

Another example: went to a part (didn't drink for once), and there was this unbelievably hot girl there. She got shit-faced and started dancing, almost like a stripper would. And I immediately felt three emotions: unbelievable desire, unbelievable anger at knowing I had no chance with her, and unbelievable shame for being unable to get with her.

You can't control your emotions. Sexual desire isn't something you can't control: you can control your actions, such as respecting someone else's boundaries and understand when they're too incapacitated to consent, but you can't control the fact that you're attracted to them. You shouldn't feel ashamed of your sexual attraction: it's just your nature.

You also cannot control your anger and shame, but when you can question the reasons behind them. You see a situation when you think that you don't have a chance with someone you're very attracted to as frustrating, and I can understand your frustration. But I can also tell you that your frustration is misguided.

No matter how successful someone is, there are always going people they attracted to with which they'll have no chance for whatever reason. This doesn't mean that they should feel angry or ashamed for being somehow less worthy.

Your lack of success doesn't make you a lesser person. It makes you someone who struggles, who is suffering, but no less or no more than others.

Bad sex is better than no sex, y'all. Just saying. No one wants to kill themselves over bad consensual sex.

I'm afraid I disagree. I've known people who have felt seriously depressed over bad consensual sex, because they thought they couldn't experience pleasure, because they thought they did something wrong, etc.

People can feel suicidal for many reasons. Depression affects many people, and it's a horrible experience for anyone. I'm sure that it's a horrible experience for you.

But punching yourself isn't going to make you feel better. Hating yourself and thinking you don't deserve kindness and humanity from others isn't going to make you feel better.

Instead you should (if you can) try to give yourself the same kind of kindness you'd give to others you care about, like your friends or your family. I'm sure that you wouldn't beat up the members of your family or tell them they don't deserve kindness just because they were suffering. I'm sure you wouldn't do that to a stranger.

Why should you do it to yourself?

[Prajnaparamita]

Bad sex is better than no sex, y'all. Just saying. No one wants to kill themselves over bad consensual sex.

I'm afraid I disagree. I've known people who have felt seriously depressed over bad consensual sex, because they thought they couldn't experience pleasure, because they thought they did something wrong, etc.

This is completely true--you can take my word for it.

[Guest]

Would you say that to another person suffering from what you're suffering? I bet you wouldn't. So why don't you use the same standards you use for others when you think about yourself?

It's already been confirmed that I'm a selfish and narcissistic asshole with only my success and personal happiness in mind, nary a shred of human compassion and empathy to be found. I can portray those things pretty decently well, but I am unable to care about anyone who isn't me. But I am aware of my selfishness and other people are far more compassionate than I am.

You DO deserve kindness. Everyone deserves kindness. The world would be a better place if people were more kind to one another.

Had to.

You can't control your emotions. Sexual desire isn't something you can't control: you can control your actions, such as respecting someone else's boundaries and understand when they're too incapacitated to consent, but you can't control the fact that you're attracted to them. You shouldn't feel ashamed of your sexual attraction: it's just your nature.

No point in feeling sexual attraction when that person isn't attracted to you. Big design flaw.

You also cannot control your anger and shame, but when you can question the reasons behind them. You see a situation when you think that you don't have a chance with someone you're very attracted to as frustrating, and I can understand your frustration. But I can also tell you that your frustration is misguided.

No matter how successful someone is, there are always going people they attracted to with which they'll have no chance for whatever reason. This doesn't mean that they should feel angry or ashamed for being somehow less worthy.

Your lack of success doesn't make you a lesser person. It makes you someone who struggles, who is suffering, but no less or no more than others.

But they are succeeding and I am not. That makes them more worthy than me, because they can succeed, and constantly do so. That's crucial. Unrealistic and implausible as it is, I don't want one woman in a million being attracted to me, I want every woman I'm attracted to to feel the same about me. That'll never happen, even if I was James Deen. Would James Deen ever get rejected by a woman? Has he even been rejected? Can't really ask him. Why the fuck is James Deen my ideal self?

I'd say that lesser people are those who want something in their lives and can't get it, so that makes most of us lesser people. People who fuck every day want money, or something. I dunno, I can't really claim to know if sexually satisfied people are insecure or not. They'd be pretty stupid if they were.

Bad sex is better than no sex, y'all. Just saying. No one wants to kill themselves over bad consensual sex.

I'm afraid I disagree. I've known people who have felt seriously depressed over bad consensual sex, because they thought they couldn't experience pleasure, because they thought they did something wrong, etc.

This is completely true--you can take my word for it.

I was about to say something unbelievably rude and snarky about that, because in every other circumstance it would be some person who had no fucking idea what they were talking about (not either of you, just...certain people who will not be named). But yeah, you both know what I'm talking about, I'm not gonna argue that one.

On a side note, gonna drop my bitterness and self-hate just long enough to offer Prajna a cyberhug, because I read your post and I don't know how else to react to that.

[Andrew Corvero]

It's already been confirmed that I'm a selfish and narcissistic asshole with only my success and personal happiness in mind, nary a shred of human compassion and empathy to be found. I can portray those things pretty decently well, but I am unable to care about anyone who isn't me. But I am aware of my selfishness and other people are far more compassionate than I am.

Sorry, but your sarcasm-fu is weak: people who really don't care about others rarely punch themselves in the face because they made their girlfriend suffer, or follow the rules of enthusiastic consent.

But even supposing that what you wrote is true, how has being selfish worked for you so far? Not well I think. Maybe it's time to change a bit?

You DO deserve kindness. Everyone deserves kindness. The world would be a better place if people were more kind to one another.

Had to.

"You're tearing me APART, Glides!"  

But seriously, don't shoot the message because sometimes its messengers suck.

No point in feeling sexual attraction when that person isn't attracted to you. Big design flaw.

But they are succeeding and I am not. That makes them more worthy than me, because they can succeed, and constantly do so. That's crucial. Unrealistic and implausible as it is, I don't want one woman in a million being attracted to me, I want every woman I'm attracted to to feel the same about me. That'll never happen, even if I was James Deen. Would James Deen ever get rejected by a woman? Has he even been rejected? Can't really ask him. Why the fuck is James Deen my ideal self?

There's a huge difference between "one in a million" and "everyone". You can certainly be much more successful than you are now, if you let go of the negativity.

I'd say that lesser people are those who want something in their lives and can't get it, so that makes most of us lesser people. People who fuck every day want money, or something. I dunno, I can't really claim to know if sexually satisfied people are insecure or not. They'd be pretty stupid if they were.

You have to WORK to get what you want. You have to find out what doesn't work and fix it.

On a side note, gonna drop my bitterness and self-hate just long enough to offer Prajna a cyberhug, because I read your post and I don't know how else to react to that.

So you're not as selfish as you wrote. Interesting...

[Prajnaparamita]

Bad sex is better than no sex, y'all. Just saying. No one wants to kill themselves over bad consensual sex.

I'm afraid I disagree. I've known people who have felt seriously depressed over bad consensual sex, because they thought they couldn't experience pleasure, because they thought they did something wrong, etc.

This is completely true--you can take my word for it.

I was about to say something unbelievably rude and snarky about that, because in every other circumstance it would be some person who had no fucking idea what they were talking about (not either of you, just...certain people who will not be named). But yeah, you both know what I'm talking about, I'm not gonna argue that one.

On a side note, gonna drop my bitterness and self-hate just long enough to offer Prajna a cyberhug, because I read your post and I don't know how else to react to that.

Hey Glides, I really appreciate it, thanks. Yeah, I didn't mention it at the time because respecting forum rules and boundaries and all, but yeah, I felt pretty damn suicidal for a bit there. And the thing is, I so wish I had waited. Obviously I had no idea that my partner was going to react by being unsupportive and resentful, but it would have been so worth it to be with someone who supported me rather than fed my insecurities, even if it meant three or four more years of feeling like I was going to die a virgin and it was hopeless. Sex that reinforces all those negative messages you have about yourself isn't worth it at all.

[Andrew Corvero]

Hey Glides, I really appreciate it, thanks. Yeah, I didn't mention it at the time because respecting forum rules and boundaries and all, but yeah, I felt pretty damn suicidal for a bit there. And the thing is, I so wish I had waited. Obviously I had no idea that my partner was going to react by being unsupportive and resentful, but it would have been so worth it to be with someone who supported me rather than fed my insecurities, even if it meant three or four more years of feeling like I was going to die a virgin and it was hopeless. Sex that reinforces all those negative messages you have about yourself isn't worth it at all.

I'm really sorry that you had to suffer, and your partner behaved like a dick. Cyberhugs from me as well.

[Guest]

Sorry, but your sarcasm-fu is weak: people who really don't care about others rarely punch themselves in the face because they made their girlfriend suffer, or follow the rules of enthusiastic consent.

But even supposing that what you wrote is true, how has being selfish worked for you so far? Not well I think. Maybe it's time to change a bit?

She wasn't my girlfriend, she was very close to being one.

Thing is, I used to be selfless. Not for the sake of being selfless or kind, for the sake of thinking that being caring and compassionate would make people like me. In a way, it was far more manipulative that way since I still didn't give a fuck about people aside from what they thought about me. And naturally, I was used a lot. Every time someone asked for a favor, I did it. I bent over backwards for people, desperate for approval, and it hurt me a lot to do this.

So one day I decided to be a grown-up, that there is no such thing as selflessness with no ulterior motive, that to be selfless and kind would be manipulative and abusive to others (the Nice Guy mentality is the most extreme form of it, I never went that far). And obviously, this isn't to say you should kill someone for looking at you funny, but only doing good things for other people as long as you will gain the most out of it. Being honest about that was one of the smarter things I've done.

And naturally, people got fucking furious at me when I suddenly stopped doing favors for them, stopped buying them food and stopped driving them home when they got drunk (a couple people now have criminal records because of me). I only do good things for others when i get something out of it. I don't treat people rudely, I just won't do favors, I will not trick them with kindness. Honesty is not sweet or kind or caring, honesty is blunt and painful. It's a good kind of pain, it's a bigger side of respect than just kissing ass.

Someone asks how they look? "You look like a human being." See, no insults. The point isn't to make people feel bad about themselves, it's just to stop bullshitting and kissing ass.

Which should I be: a Nice Guy being kind to get into girls' pants, or an asshole bluntly stating what he wants (albeit in a respectful manner and not "AY GURL U SHYT WIT DAT ASS?!") One of those is what the Doc recommends.

"You're tearing me APART, Glides!"  

But seriously, don't shoot the message because sometimes its messengers suck.

So anyway, how's your sex life?

I'm not shooting the message, but saying that everyone deserves kindness is like saying "we breathe oxygen." True, but it's not really gonna help anyone by knowing that. Yes, everyone should be nicer. Humanity as a whole is not capable of such an outpouring of positive emotion, only when something absolutely horrific happens.

The best example of that is Watchmen, the entire point of that being that people are assholes unless a lot of people get hurt at any given time.

There's a huge difference between "one in a million" and "everyone". You can certainly be much more successful than you are now, if you let go of the negativity.

Easier said than done, hoss. I've been trying for two goddamn decades and look where we are. This isn't my first time on the "you clearly aren't trying hard enough because if you tried hard enough you'd get anything you want" rodeo.

Hey Glides, I really appreciate it, thanks. Yeah, I didn't mention it at the time because respecting forum rules and boundaries and all, but yeah, I felt pretty damn suicidal for a bit there. And the thing is, I so wish I had waited. Obviously I had no idea that my partner was going to react by being unsupportive and resentful, but it would have been so worth it to be with someone who supported me rather than fed my insecurities, even if it meant three or four more years of feeling like I was going to die a virgin and it was hopeless. Sex that reinforces all those negative messages you have about yourself isn't worth it at all.

To play Devil's Advocate (and I'm not saying for a second that what he did was OK, trust me on that), but I dunno how many people coulda dealt with that properly. More supportive and caring and respectful than Asshole--I mean your ex, sorry---absolutely. Best case scenario would be "oh shit, I don't know what to do about this."

I dunno, man. I'm not exactly sure how to fix myself any more than you do. I don't know how to help any more than you know how to help me.

Not a fucking word about selflessness there, Corvero. Just don't.

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