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The fear of "Too Late"

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Post by Enail Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:24 pm

bomaye wrote:
Anecdote and statistical stuff that university grads are far more likely to be underemployed or not find their degrees all that useful. Or that I've never been in an office environment before, so I'd be a fish out of water in that kind of area. Or even just that I don't really have good IRL people skills or first impression stuff, so it also kind of feels like no matter the level of education, I'm still playing from behind.

That even does go for trades too, you kind of have to know someone willing to take you on as an apprentice, among other concerns about trades

Other than the question about if a degree would be useful to you, which you should do some proper research on how true that is locally and what degrees that applies to, those sound like things you're going to have to deal with no matter what you do, or similar challenges.

Since people mostly don't hang out in office environments when they're young, it's not too uncommon to have to get used to an office environment by jumping in and doing it once you've got a job in one. There are probably some general little skills you could prep for in advance, sending a business email, that kind of thing, if that would help you be more comfortable. There might also be opportunities to get experience in it while you're studying, if your program has an internship or coop program, or if your school's career centre has placements or other training/experience offerings. A post-sec school environment also has some commonalities with an office job in terms of handling work and deadlines and interacting with instructors as a responsible adult instead of the strict divide and hierarchy of the same things in high school.

For trades, the program may provide assistance in finding apprenticeships. Sometimes schools have relationships with particular companies where they take on apprentices from the program, too. If you're considering any trades, this would be something to ask the school about.

And you can also work on your first impressions and people skills. What you'd need to be able to get a job is a much narrower scope than "general people skills," so it's a reasonably sized project with a clear direction of what to do. Career centres (through school or general) usually have workshops in improving job interview skills, and possibly other employment-related skills, so you should plan to take some of those and gt some practice in along the way.

I think an important skill/mindset for adulting is that you don't always get a clear path given to you by an authority, sometimes you have to identify obstacles and do some work on your own to solve them rather than just doing X task to achieve X goal.
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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:53 pm

Enail wrote:
Other than the question about if a degree would be useful to you, which you should do some proper research on how true that is locally and what degrees that applies to, those sound like things you're going to have to deal with no matter what you do, or similar challenges.

Hence my reticence to actually do anything, because worst-case I have a useless piece of paper and thousands in debt

Career centres (through school or general) usually have workshops in improving job interview skills, and possibly other employment-related skills, so you should plan to take some of those and gt some practice in along the way.

I've been to one before, they are very, very useless :sigh:


I think an important skill/mindset for adulting is that you don't always get a clear path given to you by an authority, sometimes you have to identify obstacles and do some work on your own to solve them rather than just doing X task to achieve X goal.

This would be why I have so much trouble with adulting :p
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Post by Enail Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:19 pm

bomaye wrote:
Enail wrote:
Other than the question about if a degree would be useful to you, which you should do some proper research on how true that is locally and what degrees that applies to, those sound like things you're going to have to deal with no matter what you do, or similar challenges.

Hence my reticence to actually do anything, because worst-case I have a useless piece of paper and thousands in debt

So you do your research and find out which pieces of paper are likely to be useful. Also, it may not be that black and white.

Career centres (through school or general) usually have workshops in improving job interview skills, and possibly other employment-related skills, so you should plan to take some of those and gt some practice in along the way.

I've been to one before, they are very, very useless :sigh:

Have you taken a workshop from them or asked for an interview practice session?


I think an important skill/mindset for adulting is that you don't always get a clear path given to you by an authority, sometimes you have to identify obstacles and do some work on your own to solve them rather than just doing X task to achieve X goal.

This would be why I have so much trouble with adulting :p

You've got the 'identify obstacles' part down Razz So it's just about following it up with some problem-solving and working on them.
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Post by reboot Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:26 pm

Does your local library have computers? I know a number of people who are in community college/trade schools in classes with significant online content who do not own computers and do their work at the public library.

Know what I think your first step should be? Practice riding the bus and figuring out schedules!times. It sounds like that will be your only realistic transit option for the near future, so getting comfortable with using it might be prudent.
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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:17 pm


Does your local library have computers? I know a number of people who are in community college/trade schools in classes with significant online content who do not own computers and do their work at the public library.

Oh yeah, we do have that. I think there's a computer lab in the colleges anyways, too. Having access to the correct programs I'm less certain of.


Know what I think your first step should be? Practice riding the bus and figuring out schedules!times. It sounds like that will be your only realistic transit option for the near future, so getting comfortable with using it might be prudent.

I keep thinking I should mess around with that, but then I'm not sure what to do to waste time while waiting for a return bus. Maybe in the Spring or Summer when that doesn't matter as much.

Enail wrote:
So you do your research and find out which pieces of paper are likely to be useful. Also, it may not be that black and white.

I do, outlooks for a lot of things I look into are not good :p

I don't have any natural "ins" like family or whatever when it comes to anything. My strength is likely in humanities, which are either pretty useless or are flooded with too many graduates and not enough openings. (The answer to "If money wasn't an issue and you had to take a degree, what would you take?" right now is Political Science). Computer-type stuff is likewise flooded with nerds who would do that stuff for free on their own time nevermind for pay, which, I'm comfortable around computer type stuff, but I know enough computer nerds to know I can't really compete with that type of person. Sciences, my sister knows people who got science degrees and she makes as much or more as a secretary than they do as lab assistants, which is the only thing they're getting hired for apparently, and even then, the only reason one guy she knows got hired (a gifted smart-kid type) was because he has the disease they're conducting research on. Physics was kind of fun in school, the others I could take or leave anyways.

Practical stuff around here: Criminology or Police-type-stuff, I don't think I have the type of personality that fits with that, and anecdotally, they don't want white males at all. I've heard this from a few guys I know who tried to get in, and I heard it recently from my sister who had to brush up on that kind of stuff because the CC she works at offers courses on that. Trades and blue collar type stuff, those types of environments are rough and manly, and around here you have to mostly go to camps up north or in Alberta to actually use those skills, and there's a number of physical requirements that I'm not totally certain my body would be able to hold up to (being skinny skeleton-mode does not lend itself to building lifting strength or working with things over your head for long lengths of time). That stuff is a maybe-I-could-do-it at best. Nursing, I saw that stuff up close when my gramma was in a nursing home, most of the nurses there couldn't even do it, it destroys your health just by being around sick people and working with body fluids all the time, and in the wrong situation, and accident or a fuck-up could kill someone (that happened too).

I have zero idea what business or finance or that type of stuff is like around here, because that usually seems to get handled by having connections. My sister beat out about 170ish resumes or something for her job and she was underqualified compared to almost all of them. I could probably try to research that world more, but I wouldn't even know where to start with it.


Have you taken a workshop from them or asked for an interview practice session?

I've been to a workshop before. Cliches and platitudes.
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Post by Wondering Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:03 pm

Ride the bus to the local shopping center, Target, Canadian Tire, whatever. Then you can wander around looking at things/window shopping inside until the next bus. Another thing you can do while waiting for another bus is read a book.

You seem to be spending a lot of energy on discounting jobs where people aren't paid enough. But any pay is more than you are making now, and as has been discussed previously, you're not currently on a deadline to move out of your parents' house, so you have some wiggle room to start in a job that doesn't pay much.

You will only be in debt after college if you fund it with loans. If you can fund it with scholarships -- as a non-traditional student, there may be more opportunities for this than you're aware of -- grants, or Canadian-version-of-workstudy, you won't have loan debt. Look into the financial aid options before discounting them if college is something that might interest you.


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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:16 pm

Wondering wrote:
You seem to be spending a lot of energy on discounting jobs where people aren't paid enough. But any pay is more than you are making now, and as has been discussed previously, you're not currently on a deadline to move out of your parents' house, so you have some wiggle room to start in a job that doesn't pay much.

It's more that I'm not doing it for passion, so if I'm going to take 2-4 years out of time and get something that I can't remain close to home with, I'm not going to do it just so I have to live with four roommates, desperately scramble for non-steady jobs and and stare a wall eating ramen for the rest of my life.


You will only be in debt after college if you fund it with loans. If you can fund it with scholarships -- as a non-traditional student, there may be more opportunities for this than you're aware of -- grants, or Canadian-version-of-wor study, you won't have loan debt. Look into the financial aid options before discounting them if college is something that might interest you.

I think it's already been mentioned in this thread that trades do have some relief or discounts on them, yeah. CC-wise, my sister's said there's a ton of money out there unless you're a white male. University-wise, I don't know, but I'd assume it's similar to the CC.
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Post by Wondering Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:37 pm

Again, actually look into it yourself before discounting it.

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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:40 pm

I'm not discounting it, I'm just not going to discount that I may have to pay every cent of it either.
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Post by Enail Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:56 pm

1. There is no career path that will always have the exact right job available exactly when you want one.
2. There is no career path where you will have no competition.
3. There is no career path where you don't have a chance of running into some downsides (low pay, inconvenient hours or location, some tasks you dislike or find difficult, etc.) in a job (that doesn't always mean that all or even most jobs will have that downside, that varies from career to career and depending on which downside)

If you're holding out for some option where those things are not true, you're wasting your time. It doesn't exist.

So what you can do is:

1. Do research into what paths are likely to have more jobs available/less competition. You can ask people in those fields, but don't just rely on that, and definitely don't rely on the general feel you or other people have of what's true. Look at statistics from the government and from career centres. If a path involves education, ask the school for the stats on employment in their field for their graduates of that program.

2. Look for something that's a good balance between job availability, your preferences/needs, and what you'll need to do to be qualified. (You could consider things like getting a double major, with one being something you're interested like PoliSci and one being something that's more aimed at a career path. Having some education in something completely different can sometimes give you more job options, too, or be a selling point to make you stand out from the competition)

3. Assume you will need to put some effort into landing a job you want aside from just getting the piece of paper (if you get one). Put things like improving your interviewing skills into your plan.

4. Stop comparing your career options to not doing anything and maintaining your current situation - since your current situation is comfortable but not sustainable indefinitely it's not an accurate comparison. Treat the long-term situation if you don't do something as one of your options and compare other options accordingly.

And even if you can't make a decision now, keep up the figuring things out and immediate job-hunting that you've been doing. There's pretty much no scenario where working on that stuff won't be useful to you in some way!
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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:10 pm

4. Stop comparing your career options to not doing anything and maintaining your current situation - since your current situation is comfortable but not sustainable indefinitely it's not an accurate comparison. Treat the long-term situation if you don't do something as one of your options and compare other options accordingly.

It's not sustainable, but everyone dies eventually anyways. I don't have hopes and dreams and much of a future either way, so struggling and struggling and struggling just to struggle some more the next day and the day after that ad infinitum is not some noble life cause, that's just a tunnel with no light at the end of it. If there's no light at the end of it, there's no point in doing it.
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Post by reboot Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:16 pm

You are still looking for obstacles, not looking for solutions. Maybe turn that strong critical eye towards trying to figure out some of the problems you have identified by researching some of the ideas presented in this thread. Pick 1-2 things and try to solve them through research and experimentation. You are spending too much time sitting around figuring out how things will not work. Now you need to try to see how to make them work by doing, not thinking about it.

For example, as Wondering suggested, take the bus and browse in stores until the next bus. Try transferring buses and timing the rides. Ride in bad westher and good to get a range of travel times. Between busses, walk around the area and check out potential employers or just browse stores. Ride to the campus and kill time in the library/cafeteria.
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Post by Enail Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:36 pm

bomaye wrote:
It's not sustainable, but everyone dies eventually anyways. I don't have hopes and dreams and much of a future either way, so struggling and struggling and struggling just to struggle some more the next day and the day after that ad infinitum is not some noble life cause, that's just a tunnel with no light at the end of it. If there's no light at the end of it, there's no point in doing it.

No one is suggesting that you take on a life of nothing but struggle. There will be hard things, yes, just as there are hard things now, but that doesn't mean that those things will last forever or that they will reduce your life to nothing but struggling.

Before you went out and applied for some jobs you talked like even doing that would involve horrifying humiliation and misery, and you've even managed an interview that didn't go too well, and it wasn't everything you feared, right? You can do things that are scary and difficult and be okay. You can do things that are challenging or unpleasant sometimes without it turning your life to endless struggle. You're getting snagged on the problems and they're turning bigger and bigger in your mind; they're problems, yes, but you can solve problems and keep moving.

Thirding the vote to go take some buses!


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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:58 pm

@reboot

Big source of personal frustration: Figuring out how things won't work is how I've generally gotten through situations. When I think things are going to work out and plan for solutions that will work out, they don't. I've never succeeded when I've tried to succeed, I've succeeded when I've tried not to fail. There are too many ways to fail at this bigger general thing and I don't have the advantages (connections, charisma/people skills/good first impressions, hopes/dreams/passions that help ignore reality, $$$$$) to make up for it, so yes, I focus a lot on the obstacles, because those things will actually get in the way of anything and possibly "everything" (whatever that ends up being)

No one is suggesting that you take on a life of nothing but struggle. There will be hard things, yes, just as there are hard things now, but that doesn't mean that those things will last forever or that they will reduce your life to nothing but struggling.

No like, you guys act as if it's just a matter of making a choice and then things will work out eventually. This situation does suck in some ways and isn't sustainable, but it could potentially last longer than a bad choice that puts me in a worse situation indefinitely. People will say "That's life", no that's Stockholm Syndrome

Before you went out and applied for some jobs you talked like even doing that would involve horrifying humiliation and misery, and you've even managed an interview that didn't go too well, and it wasn't everything you feared, right? You can do things that are scary and difficult and be okay. You can do things that are challenging or unpleasant sometimes without it turning your life to endless struggle. You're getting snagged on the problems and they're turning bigger and bigger in your mind; they're problems, yes, but you can solve problems and keep moving.

It wasn't everything I feared, but there was enough of it there that I still have a hard time bringing myself to do it more even a week or so later. It wasn't some kind of experience building block, it was something I got out of the way so I could forget about it for a bit and do something I actually wanted to do without it being on my brain 24/7. And if it happens to work, it'll lead to a ton more problems instead of less.
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Post by Enail Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:26 pm

bomaye wrote:
No like, you guys act as if it's just a matter of making a choice and then things will work out eventually. This situation does suck in some ways and isn't sustainable, but it could potentially last longer than a bad choice that puts me in a worse situation indefinitely. People will say "That's life", no that's Stockholm Syndrome

There are bad situations you could get in, but you can greatly reduce the odds and length of indefinitely long bad situations by getting experience and skills, and reduce the impact of them by saving up money and building up other resources, whereas without those things, if you ran into a bad situation now, you'd have a harder time getting out of it.


It wasn't everything I feared, but there was enough of it there that I still have a hard time bringing myself to do it more even a week or so later. It wasn't some kind of experience building block, it was something I got out of the way so I could forget about it for a bit and do something I actually wanted to do without it being on my brain 24/7. And if it happens to work, it'll lead to a ton more problems instead of less.

Experience doesn't always feel like it's doing something for you even if it is, you can't see your experience bar filling IRL. You did something hard (you're not the only person who has a hard time bringing themselves to do job interviews), and it's practice that will help you get better at it over time. And getting things out of your brain so you can enjoy things you want to do is no small thing; think of how much fear and shame you feel about "being behind-" can you even imagine what it would feel like to not have that weighing on you?  

That said, if you don't think it's best to deal with the big Career Path question, then don't. But then don't keep poking at it and turning your skill at seeing obstacles into vague unvanquishable stress. It's one of those superpowers that can easily be destructive if misused, so use it productively by focusing on obstacles of a manageable size and taking action on them.
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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:56 pm

Enail wrote:
There are bad situations you could get in, but you can greatly reduce the odds and length of indefinitely long bad situations by getting experience and skills, and reduce the impact of them by saving up money and building up other resources, whereas without those things, if you ran into a bad situation now, you'd have a harder time getting out of it.

Finding something to jump off of is not hard if that kind of "bad situation" came up :p


Experience doesn't always feel like it's doing something for you even if it is, you can't see your experience bar filling IRL. You did something hard (you're not the only person who has a hard time bringing themselves to do job interviews),

I definitely did not mean to imply that anyone else found them easy


and it's practice that will help you get better at it over time. And getting things out of your brain so you can enjoy things you want to do is no small thing; think of how much fear and shame you feel about "being behind-" can you even imagine what it would feel like to not have that weighing on you?

No, because that's unrealistic. I'm always going to be behind on something. It's no small thing for that relief, but that relief is not sustainable either


That said, if you don't think it's best to deal with the big Career Path question, then don't. But then don't keep poking at it and turning your skill at seeing obstacles into vague unvanquishable stress. It's one of those superpowers that can easily be destructive if misused, so use it productively by focusing on obstacles of a manageable size and taking action on them.

The vague unvanquishable stress isn't the size of the problem it's because the solutions are just as vague and not obviously vanquishable. I can see a gigantic cord of wood and not be overwhelmed because each piece split is one less piece before the end of the problem, whereas with this I could chip away at each small problem and at the end of it all still have not even come close to solving the big problem
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Post by Enail Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:10 pm

bomaye wrote:
Enail wrote:
There are bad situations you could get in, but you can greatly reduce the odds and length of indefinitely long bad situations by getting experience and skills, and reduce the impact of them by saving up money and building up other resources, whereas without those things, if you ran into a bad situation now, you'd have a harder time getting out of it.

Finding something to jump off of is not hard if that kind of "bad situation" came up :p

Let's maybe try and avoid things getting to that point, huh? Side-eye


and it's practice that will help you get better at it over time. And getting things out of your brain so you can enjoy things you want to do is no small thing; think of how much fear and shame you feel about "being behind-" can you even imagine what it would feel like to not have that weighing on you?

No, because that's unrealistic. I'm always going to be behind on something. It's no small thing for that relief, but that relief is not sustainable either

But isn't it a lot less weight if you feel more in step in some things, at least?


That said, if you don't think it's best to deal with the big Career Path question, then don't. But then don't keep poking at it and turning your skill at seeing obstacles into vague unvanquishable stress. It's one of those superpowers that can easily be destructive if misused, so use it productively by focusing on obstacles of a manageable size and taking action on them.

The vague unvanquishable stress isn't the size of the problem it's because the solutions are just as vague and not obviously vanquishable. I can see a gigantic cord of wood and not be overwhelmed because each piece split is one less piece before the end of the problem, whereas with this I could chip away at each small problem and at the end of it all still have even come close to solving the big problem

It's true that at some point there's a big decision to be made no matter how many small problems you chip away at (though I think you're seeing that decision as much more absolute and final than it really is). But it's like a knot that's got a whole bunch of little threads and tangles tied in with it, if you can clear away the smaller problems, it's much easier to figure out the best way to unknot the big one than if you try and go at it with all those other bits obscuring the view and in the way. It's clearing yourself some room to work with. And dealing with some of the smaller problems will also be improving your skill at dealing with problems, which can help when you get to the bigger ones.

And things can get a lot less vague when you can find a place to take concrete action, or the vague things kind of step aside to make way for the concrete.
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Post by reboot Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:03 pm

Life can only go so badly wrong with the bus route, though Smile Worst outcome is dawdling around bored (books fix this). You might find that yes, it takes 2 hours one way, but it might be worth it if there were other benefits like being able to get to a class or maybe a job. A bus+a bike gives you lots more options (speaking from experience. I did not own a car until I was 36 and lived in cold places with limited busses).

Once you get a better handle on transit, you have a more realistic idea of what you can do school and work-wise

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Post by bomaye Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:07 pm

Enail wrote:
Let's maybe try and avoid things getting to that point, huh? Side-eye

Nah, like, that's the thing about this situation. I have no dependents, no significant others to worry about, no debts (fuck'em even if I did, they can take my net worth of not-much-of-anything), no employees or pets or people relying on me, and my parents and sister would be fine either way because there's other people they can rely on, I'm redundant in the family dynamic. So in this case, "something bad" that requires resources is literally "You are now homeless and hot meals are no longer a guarantee." The only people who'd miss me are my online friends, who if "something bad" happens, I wouldn't have the ability to stay in touch with anyways, they'd already be sad or missing me or whatever anyways Grin


But isn't it a lot less weight if you feel more in step in some things, at least?

Not really? Just more responsibilities and problems added, there'll always be some example or another of having done something too late, and always the looming possibility that whatever it is I've worked towards will be snatched away by the business cycle or "life" or whatever else. "When's the other shoe gonna drop?"


And things can get a lot less vague when you can find a place to take concrete action, or the vague things kind of step aside to make way for the concrete.

I'll believe it if I ever see it first Razz


Life can only go so badly wrong with the bus route, though Smile Worst outcome is dawdling around bored (books fix this). You might find that yes, it takes 2 hours one way, but it might be worth it if there were other benefits like being able to get to a class or maybe a job. A bus+a bike gives you lots more options (speaking from experience. I did not own a car until I was 36 and lived in cold places with limited busses).

Once you get a better handle on transit, you have a more realistic idea of what you can do school and work-wise

This is true.

(Besides getting horrifically lost and stranded in a neighbouring town <_<)
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Post by reboot Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:21 pm

I have been lost and stranded in many a town. It is not such a big deal. You find a restaurant/diner that is open all night, get something to eat, tell the server you missed the last bus and see how long you can sit there. Usually, if you are quiet and do not make a mess, they will let you stay until morning because it makes the place less vulnerable to robbery if there is a customer. Worst case scenario is you walk around all night until busses run again. It sucks but it is survivable.

I do advise having $10-$20 with you as emergency funds if possible. And write down the intersections where the bus runs in case you need to ask for directions. Also, obviously, dress for the weather.
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Post by Werel Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:13 am

No don't take the bus, your skeletal ass is 100% guaranteed to die of hypothermia if you have a 30+ minute transfer rofl

(Fourthing the vote to try the bus and bring $20)

bomaye wrote:When I think things are going to work out and plan for solutions that will work out, they don't. I've never succeeded when I've tried to succeed, I've succeeded when I've tried not to fail.
Yeah, this actually can be a useful superpower. There are enough people in the workforce whose strengths are more "plan for the best"; employers need people with the "just avoid the worst failure" approach too, or they're SOL when bad obstacles actually arise. There are whole careers where your job is to pick things apart and figure out why they won't work-- stuff like supply logistics, security (physical or tech/sysadmin stuff), government crap, etc. where your job is to try and figure out how to break stuff/prove how it sucks in order to patch those weak spots. Like you can be a (directed) sourpuss as a job skill, seriously. Razz

Also, thinking about school only in terms of the piece of paper might be steering you kind of wrong. A big part of school is about connecting yourself to a network of resources you're shut out from otherwise. Work-study jobs have basically one qualification: be a student at that school. And then boom, you've got job experience, which is maybe the biggest obstacle currently standing between you and non-school entry-level jobs. It's crazy how easy it is to get a work-study in every public college/university I've studied or worked at, but that's because they are jobs only for students. So you're not just going to school for the paper (which, like others said, make double-dog sure how useless each kind of degree actually is), you're going to tap into a bunch of tightly gate-kept resources like jobs and internships and recommendations. And there's legit decent chances you can find a way to tap these resources for very little cost out of pocket, especially if you're poor on paper, especially if you're old(er than most undergrads), and especially if you live in public education paradise up north.

Enail wrote:It's true that at some point there's a big decision to be made no matter how many small problems you chip away at (though I think you're seeing that decision as much more absolute and final than it really is). But it's like a knot that's got a whole bunch of little threads and tangles tied in with it, if you can clear away the smaller problems, it's much easier to figure out the best way to unknot the big one than if you try and go at it with all those other bits obscuring the view and in the way. It's clearing yourself some room to work with. And dealing with some of the smaller problems will also be improving your skill at dealing with problems, which can help when you get to the bigger ones.
Yeah, this, very much.

There will come times when you are forced to deal with big problems (which, like folks been saying, are survivable to a degree you might be surprised at when push comes to shove). You don't know when it'll be, but everybody is guaranteed some times which are rougher than others, or where you're faced with some unavoidable obstacles. At those times, you'll want to have as few smaller problems as possible cluttering up your mental workspace. You'll be grateful to yourself for any problems you clear away and stuff you learn/consider now, while you're not under duress, so you don't have to do that junk while having to attend to a bigger problem.

Enail wrote:Let's maybe try and avoid things getting to that point, huh? Side-eye
Sad Yes pls
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Post by kath Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:12 pm

Right now, even if you waste a small amount of time doing something that doesn't get you anything (riding buses, doing research, thinking positive thoughts about the future that are not specific) is still probably actually going to get you further than defeatist lines of thinking. Thinking positively about turning defeatist thinking into a career in weakness-finding might be the most useful option Razz!

One thing you could do is phone or visit Academic Advising or Admissions at your local community college and talk to a human who knows what you are actually talking about and where you are. You may not get the most helpful human, but you'll get some info. They can tell you a lot about how to fund your education.

Also if you are on campus and you miss a bus and that adds 4 hours to your day, you go into the library or student union and do your homework for 3.75 hours, and then go back to your bus stop. Or what reboot said.

Are you in a tourism-y part of the province?

Also, I graduated from Uni in 2009 with a degree in visual arts and managed to find myself a reasonable adult-human job with a snappy turn around and very little time off. I attribute that 100% to co-op, which my university let(s) its visual arts students do. Political Science is one of the disciplines that very few arts co-op programs are going to exclude, since the government hires tons of co-op students. Any policy-related departments want ones in polisci.

Also, when picking courses, the specifics of the piece of paper are very important to some disciplines, but to others, the transferable skills you get at post secondary (working with others, clear communication, getting things done, time management, navigating bureaucratic systems) are the primary ones employers are hiring for. For any job that isn't technical (so, like, probably most of them), these are really the ones you need.

Right now it seems like you have little to no experience / comfort with that "dealing with bureaucratic systems" skillset, and it's actually a huge one - particularly if you aren't naturally super technical. Because that skillset is often a key job and life skill, and allows you to make sure you have the best chance of getting the job (because you submitted your information correctly and followed up), are on good terms with the government / are getting an y subsidies you are eligible for, etc. You can actually practice this skill doing stuff like riding the bus and phoning academic advising and thinking about all the stupid hoops you need to jump through.

Because a lot of the time, the big knotty problems are actually a lot like the cord of wood. You know how to take a cord of wood from cord of wood -> kindling (there are people who don't know that, and for whom having a cord of wood, an axe, and everything needed to make a fire but the kindling would mean they freeze to death). You now need to learn the "navigating systems" skill that turns "get myself a job and support myself" from a nebulous problem to a list of rather perfunctory hoops to jump through. This is not actually changing the problem, it's being able to see where and what the hoops are (just like you know how to chop the wood), and then jump on through 'em.

Additionally, getting into pretty much ANY course will help with this skillset and open an avenue to get more help. Once you are in post secondary, moving around within it gets way easier because you know who to talk to about doing it.

(Also it's not like your fault you don't [/seem to, I could totally have the wrong read here] have this skill. It should actually be taught in school. But if you can do some things to learn it and grow it, it just makes the world a lot easier to deal with.)
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Post by bomaye Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:51 pm

"Navigating systems" is a huge problem for me. My "how to be a normal social human being" manual got lost in the mail when I was younger while everyone else got there's, so I end up being extremely frustrated in these kinds of situations because for some reason, normal people do not operate on a "get to the point" basis, but need to over-complicate and over-exaggerate everything to "fake it until they make it" or "lie until someone buys." Put me in a situation where I need to feel something out, I'm fine, put me in a situation where I have to deal with other human beings to get anything accomplished, I pretty much start hating the entire human race :p

Working in tourism is a definite no, I'm not a people-person. Also I think most of the "tourist" type stuff around here is outdoorsy like canoeing or things like that.
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Post by Enail Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:00 pm

Navigating systems isn't all (or even mostly, I'd say) about dealing with people, there's a lot of finding information, figuring out how things work, handling details, that kind of thing. Figuring out your bus schedule is that, researching scholarships, finding out student loan requirements and how much they would be for, dealing with forms, that kind of thing. It's about sorting out what the steps are and knowing where to go and seeing what the dumb things that just have to get done are and how to do them. It seems like it's an area where you tend to shut down a bit, but like Kath says, your natural tendencies and skills can be really good for it.
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Post by bomaye Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:14 pm

Werel wrote:
There will come times when you are forced to deal with big problems (which, like folks been saying, are survivable to a degree you might be surprised at when push comes to shove). You don't know when it'll be, but everybody is guaranteed some times which are rougher than others, or where you're faced with some unavoidable obstacles. At those times, you'll want to have as few smaller problems as possible cluttering up your mental workspace. You'll be grateful to yourself for any problems you clear away and stuff you learn/consider now, while you're not under duress, so you don't have to do that junk while having to attend to a bigger problem.

I dunno. Whenever something that big comes up or gets in the way, I get angry, and if I have control of it, I ruthlessly deal with it, or know how to ruthlessly deal with it if I don't have control of it. Watching wishy-washy family members drag their feet dealing with more unsavoury family members while my Gramma's dementia set in was one of the most aggravating things I've ever seen in my life.

It's day-to-day having to figure out what this next fool getting up in your face is going to do and how to apparently trick other human beings into allowing you to have the things you want that's the really hard stuff

Enail wrote:Navigating systems isn't all (or even mostly, I'd say) about dealing with people, there's a lot of finding information, figuring out how things work, handling details, that kind of thing. Figuring out your bus schedule is that, researching scholarships, finding out student loan requirements and how much they would be for, dealing with forms, that kind of thing. It's about sorting out what the steps are and knowing where to go and seeing what the dumb things that just have to get done are and how to do them. It seems like it's an area where you tend to shut down a bit, but like Kath says, your natural tendencies and skills can be really good for it.

I shut down because I don't want to do it and there's no desperate need to do it at the moment. It's also the things at the end of those pathways (taking a bus to have to get to work or search for a job or something like that, going to school to get a job meaning having to be around and have to deal with a ton of people) that lead to the shut-down. It takes a bit to absorb and get comfortable with the environment around me, other human beings in that environment makes things much worse
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