Casual Sex and Online Dating

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:30 pm

embertine wrote:Well, you know what they say: don't ask, don't get. Shiny/thrilled

I figured as much, but ugh, it's such a fine line between creepy and charming. D: And I thought girls didn't like getting solicited as such during OLD...?

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:32 pm

Girls with "looking for casual sex" in their profiles might. Wink But I agree, leading with "hookup, Y/N?" is a bit off-putting if you haven't tried to establish even a bit of banter.

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:48 pm

embertine wrote:Girls with "looking for casual sex" in their profiles might. Wink  But I agree, leading with "hookup, Y/N?" is a bit off-putting if you haven't tried to establish even a bit of banter.

Yeah! I thought that too, I look for that sometimes as well and maybe it's an American thing, but not a lot of girls on OLD are looking for casual sex. D: Or maybe they are and are being coy about it, I dunno. I've sent out messages to deafening silence. Oh well.

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Post by reboot on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:56 pm

The Mikey wrote:
embertine wrote:Girls with "looking for casual sex" in their profiles might. Wink  But I agree, leading with "hookup, Y/N?" is a bit off-putting if you haven't tried to establish even a bit of banter.

Yeah! I thought that too, I look for that sometimes as well and maybe it's an American thing, but not a lot of girls on OLD are looking for casual sex. D: Or maybe they are and are being coy about it, I dunno. I've sent out messages to deafening silence. Oh well.

My guess is you may also be bumping into an age difference as well. Embertine is looking to date men around her age (30-45) and, in my experience, older women do tend to be more comfortable with seeking casual sex through OLD while younger women tend to be more comfortable doing it face to face.
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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:10 pm

That's true, I would not have been in a place where I would have even wanted to ask for something like that in my early twenties. I was having a lot more casual sex then but it was opportunistic and very unsatisfactory.

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:15 pm

reboot wrote:
My guess is you may also be bumping into an age difference as well. Embertine is looking to date men around her age (30-45) and, in my experience, older women do tend to be more comfortable with seeking casual sex through OLD while younger women tend to be more comfortable doing it face to face.

You're right, but I also think it may be my location Laughing ; I decided to run an experiment and I ran a few filters in my Matches on OKC (increased location radius, age range, keywords, etc.) and I only got one or two ladies that were in their 30's looking for casual sex. Razz

ETA: Hell, they may have only popped up because of the Keywords filter!

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Post by eselle28 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:34 pm

Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.
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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:37 pm

Ha, I have just been explaining the concept of the unicorn to a dude. His response: "But.. that sounds like sex slavery?"

EXACTLY, HOT GUY ON OKC. EXACTLY.

As a slight aside, it is very funny to be here discussing online dating while simultaneously online dating. I feel so meta.

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:43 pm

eselle28 wrote:Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.

And that's kinda what I figured (and it also makes sense), so that leaves me kinda stuck in a weird loop, I'm looking for it but I can't find it. -facepalm- Also what do you mean a structural problem?

embertine wrote:

As a slight aside, it is very funny to be here discussing online dating while simultaneously online dating.  I feel so meta.

wow such meta much OLD omg /doge

Razz

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Post by eselle28 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:33 pm

The Mikey wrote:
eselle28 wrote:Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.

And that's kinda what I figured (and it also makes sense), so that leaves me kinda stuck in a weird loop, I'm looking for it but I can't find it. -facepalm- Also what do you mean a structural problem?

I think a lot of the problem with sites like OkCupid is that the architecture assumes that for the most part, the worst messages in someone's inbox will be "hey" messages from people they consider to be very inappropriate matches. I've gotten my share of gross ones too, but for the most part, I'd say that's true. When casual sex comes into play, messages sent to women at least seem to get more aggressive, more explicit, and less respectful. Site members who already struggle to find matches, like couples looking for bisexual women or men looking for partners far outside their age group, sometimes see casual sex marked and get very pushy, perhaps out of fear that this wonderful catch will slip away. Then, some women decide that checking casual sex produces more moments of disgust or violation than fun no strings encounters, and they uncheck the option.

There are other ways of doing it. Tinder has its faults, particularly the fact that many of its members don't seem very interested in actually meeting, but it has a system where both people need to approve of each other before contact is made. It still results in unpleasant messages sometimes, but I get the feeling women feel more comfortable seeking casual sex when they don't have to read absolutely everyone's messages about it.
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Post by The Wisp on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:43 pm

eselle28 wrote:
The Mikey wrote:
eselle28 wrote:Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.

And that's kinda what I figured (and it also makes sense), so that leaves me kinda stuck in a weird loop, I'm looking for it but I can't find it. -facepalm- Also what do you mean a structural problem?

I think a lot of the problem with sites like OkCupid is that the architecture assumes that for the most part, the worst messages in someone's inbox will be "hey" messages from people they consider to be very inappropriate matches. I've gotten my share of gross ones too, but for the most part, I'd say that's true. When casual sex comes into play, messages sent to women at least seem to get more aggressive, more explicit, and less respectful. Site members who already struggle to find matches, like couples looking for bisexual women or men looking for partners far outside their age group, sometimes see casual sex marked and get very pushy, perhaps out of fear that this wonderful catch will slip away. Then, some women decide that checking casual sex produces more moments of disgust or violation than fun no strings encounters, and they uncheck the option.

DNL should really write a "how to get casual sex on OLD sites" article. Though, he seems to think that it's unlikely to be fruitful.

It makes me wonder if he is generally correct about it. Embertine's hookup seems almost accidental, and not replicable. If women aren't comfortable marking casual sex on OKC, and if bringing up sex early on is a faux pas, then it seems it is nearly impossible.

ETA: It also makes me curious about the women who do mark casual sex and explicitly talk about sex in their profile. Are they just on for the anonymous, low risk attention? In other words, are they not actually interested in meeting in person at all? I did see one woman who seemed to clearly fit this, as she said to only message her if you would describe what you would do to her in detail.
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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:56 pm

eselle28 wrote:
The Mikey wrote:
eselle28 wrote:Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.

And that's kinda what I figured (and it also makes sense), so that leaves me kinda stuck in a weird loop, I'm looking for it but I can't find it. -facepalm- Also what do you mean a structural problem?

I think a lot of the problem with sites like OkCupid is that the architecture assumes that for the most part, the worst messages in someone's inbox will be "hey" messages from people they consider to be very inappropriate matches. I've gotten my share of gross ones too, but for the most part, I'd say that's true. When casual sex comes into play, messages sent to women at least seem to get more aggressive, more explicit, and less respectful. Site members who already struggle to find matches, like couples looking for bisexual women or men looking for partners far outside their age group, sometimes see casual sex marked and get very pushy, perhaps out of fear that this wonderful catch will slip away. Then, some women decide that checking casual sex produces more moments of disgust or violation than fun no strings encounters, and they uncheck the option.

There are other ways of doing it. Tinder has its faults, particularly the fact that many of its members don't seem very interested in actually meeting, but it has a system where both people need to approve of each other before contact is made. It still results in unpleasant messages sometimes, but I get the feeling women feel more comfortable seeking casual sex when they don't have to read absolutely everyone's messages about it.

A girl on the Internet looking for casual sex I suppose she's gonna run into problems. Shouldn't be that way but it happens. Sad Whether or not I'm looking for casual sex (I am sometimes) I never jump straight into the dirty talk...

And Tinder is sketchy. I got a match from Texas of all places. She gave me her number and I googled it just to be sure, no complaints; but then it got weird, she seemed normal on Tinder and kinda like a bot via text. She sent me a pic of her butt without me asking from some odd email... I freaked out when she sent me the same identical message twice and wouldn't answer when I asked where she was from. Neutral

ETA: I did block "her" number, and I really hope I don't get charged anything on my phone bill. I'm still not 100% if she was real or not.


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Post by eselle28 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:57 pm

The Wisp wrote:
DNL should really write a "how to get casual sex on OLD sites" article. Though, he seems to think that it's unlikely to be fruitful.

It makes me wonder if he is generally correct about it. Embertine's hookup seems almost accidental, and not replicable. If women aren't comfortable marking casual sex on OKC, and if bringing up sex early on is a faux pas, then it seems it is nearly impossible.

To be fair, that still leaves the option of communicating with a woman for a bit, making a connection, and then meeting for casual sex. Getting to know someone a bit before meeting them doesn't suddenly make the sex committed. I think there will still be challenges using that strategy, as there aren't many women who mark themselves as being open to that sort of interaction, but it seems like the best of the available options.

ETA: It also makes me curious about the women who do mark casual sex and explicitly talk about sex in their profile. Are they just on for the anonymous, low risk attention? In other words, are they not actually interested in meeting in person at all? I did see one woman who seemed to clearly fit this, as she said to only message her if you would describe what you would do to her in detail.

Some of them are looking for casual sex and are either willing to tolerate some unpleasant messages to get it or are new enough to the site that they haven't received many yet. They're not completely non-existent, as you'll note embertine both marked that option and had casual sex with someone. As for the other woman whose profile you saw, it sounds like she's looking for phone sex or sexting. That's not the same as seeking attention, and it's something many men on the site do as well (as I'm reminded every time I log in during midday and find random flirting from some dude who lives in Europe). The "just looking for attention" label tends to get thrown really easily at women who use online dating whenever what they're seeking doesn't match what a particular man is looking for, and I think it's generally good to be wary of using it, especially in cases where other kinds of interaction are as or more likely.
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Post by reboot on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:16 pm

I would say the straight from online to casual sex without meeting before is relatively rare since usually both people want to meet somewhere more neutral to see if who they were talking to is, well, who they thought they were talking to and if there is any in person attraction (always key for casual sex). First encounters ending up in casual sex are much more common at least among my casual dating/hook up OLD using friends. Hell, I know a few that manage a brunch date and an evening date that turn into casual sex on most Saturdays and sometimes Sundays too.
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Post by Conreezy on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:32 pm

eselle28 wrote:Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.

Aren't there sites just for that sort of thing, like Adult Friend Finder?

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Post by eselle28 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:38 pm

Conreezy wrote:
eselle28 wrote:Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.

Aren't there sites just for that sort of thing, like Adult Friend Finder?  

There are. I've never used that site and don't know people who have, so I don't know if it's set up to ease that problem or if the women who use it just deal with it.
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Post by The Wisp on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:38 pm

Woops, Double post.


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Post by The Wisp on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:39 pm

Conreezy wrote:
eselle28 wrote:Part of what you may be finding, Mikey, is that women of all ages who are looking for sex may not be willing to state they're doing so on their OkCupid profiles because they receive harassing messages from disrespectful dudes and pushy couples. I don't know how to solve that problem for men seeking casual sex using that site - all I can do is point to it as a structural problem.

Aren't there sites just for that sort of thing, like Adult Friend Finder?  

I've looked into it, but apparently it's full of phantom accounts and cam girls looking to advertise their cams.

Check out the top comment here: http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/selnf/do_sites_like_fling_or_adult_friend_finder/
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Post by reboot on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:43 pm

I know some women who use it and it is a whole lot worse than OKC for the squicky and skin crawly messages. Most of them only talk to the men they message and do not answer unsolicited messages at all and even those conversations devolve 7 out of 10 times. It is a bit of a nightmare that occasionally results in fun casual sex, I take it.
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Post by Conreezy on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:49 pm

reboot wrote:I know some women who use it and it is a whole lot worse than OKC for the squicky and skin crawly messages. Most of them only talk to the men they message and do not answer unsolicited messages at all and even those conversations devolve 7 out of 10 times. It is a bit of a nightmare that occasionally results in fun casual sex, I take it.

That's what OKC sounds like too! Laughing

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Post by reboot on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:55 pm

Conreezy wrote:
reboot wrote:I know some women who use it and it is a whole lot worse than OKC for the squicky and skin crawly messages. Most of them only talk to the men they message and do not answer unsolicited messages at all and even those conversations devolve 7 out of 10 times. It is a bit of a nightmare that occasionally results in fun casual sex, I take it.

That's what OKC sounds like too! Laughing

I take it Adult Friend finder and its like is worse than OKC. These women use both and Tinder too and those are apparently head and shoulders above the sex only sites. Scary to think, is it not? Shocked
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Post by nonA on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:59 pm

DNL should really write a "how to get casual sex on OLD sites" article. Though, he seems to think that it's unlikely to be fruitful.

The best advice for that came out in '05.  Not much that can be done to improve on the classics.

Question, though:  How often do you get third dates?  For that matter, how often do you get first ones?  Hooking up successfully is a bit of an advanced topic, and much of the practical advice would get feathers ruffled.  Better to make sure you have your fundamentals down before moving on to the advanced stuff.

(And for that matter, assuming that girls who are DTF are going to be less effort than girls who aren't just feeds the attitudes that cause the icky messages that scare the girls off.)

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Post by The Wisp on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:24 pm

nonA wrote:
DNL should really write a "how to get casual sex on OLD sites" article. Though, he seems to think that it's unlikely to be fruitful.

The best advice for that came out in '05.  Not much that can be done to improve on the classics.

Question, though:  How often do you get third dates?  For that matter, how often do you get first ones?  Hooking up successfully is a bit of an advanced topic, and much of the practical advice would get feathers ruffled.  Better to make sure you have your fundamentals down before moving on to the advanced stuff.

(And for that matter, assuming that girls who are DTF are going to be less effort than girls who aren't just feeds the attitudes that cause the icky messages that scare the girls off.)

Oh yeah, I'm not even trying to date right now (though soon, I swear!), but I do like to know about these things ahead of time, partially out of curiosity and partly because I would like to know what my options are in the future.
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Post by Lemminkainen on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:13 pm

We may be getting off-topic enough to require a mod split, but I've heard good things about Fetlife as a place for people looking to get laid.  Interestingly, I get the sense that this is because you need to do a lot more legwork and community-engagement before asking people to bang, which cuts down on nasty behavior.

It's also worth noting that it's totally possible to pursue casual sex on OKC, if you know how to read the social codes and respond to them in appropriate ways.  For a lot of users (male and female-- I have experience with both types!), "looking for short-term dating" actually means "looking for casual sex."  The "If I'm having a good time dating somebody, I'll have sex with them after..." question can also be coded (although it isn't always).  Everyone who said "3-5 dates" who I had chemistry with fucked me on the first, and everybody who I had chemistry with who said "6 or more dates" fucked me within three.*

People (and particularly women) generally code things like this for safety, since it tends to lead people to act less entitled about sex stuff with you and gives you a more socially comfortable out if you don't want to bang.  So, if you approach somebody online who might be using this kind of coded language, you should take them at their word and ask them on a date without acting like you expect them to bang you.  If they're not actually using the codes, you won't be putting them in an uncomfortable social position, and if they are using the codes, you'll be helping them preserve the social distance that keeps them safe.  Then on the date, you can slowly, carefully initiate physical stuff, go somewhere private, and either let the other person initiate sex or ask them if they want to do it in a chill, low-pressure way.**  This can then lead into a relationship or casual dating or an FWB arrangement, depending on what the two of you want.

EDIT: It's also really important to be able to take "no" for an answer at every stage of the process. Not everyone is seeking sex in the short run, not everyone who is will want to go out with you, and not everyone who goes out with you will want to have sex with you after meeting you! And that's totally valid! Respect their choices and go for somebody else next time!

*The way that I've answered my match questions strongly selects for people who are liberal, feminist, and comfortable with sex.  For different social groups, these categories will probably code for different things.  For say, a conservative Christian person, "6 or more" probably means "not before marriage."

** Asking something like "Do you want to have sex with me?" is much better than "Can I have sex with you?" for signalling that you care about the other person's enthusiastic consent and don't want to push past their boundaries.  Respecting their stated preferences and requests is also great for signalling this.

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Post by UristMcBunny on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:34 pm

nonA wrote:
DNL should really write a "how to get casual sex on OLD sites" article. Though, he seems to think that it's unlikely to be fruitful.

The best advice for that came out in '05.  Not much that can be done to improve on the classics.

Question, though:  How often do you get third dates?  For that matter, how often do you get first ones?  Hooking up successfully is a bit of an advanced topic, and much of the practical advice would get feathers ruffled.  Better to make sure you have your fundamentals down before moving on to the advanced stuff.

(And for that matter, assuming that girls who are DTF are going to be less effort than girls who aren't just feeds the attitudes that cause the icky messages that scare the girls off.)

nonA, I realise that the link you posted is to a joke.  But you've expressed similar sentiments as fact in the past and, frankly, I'm getting sick of the fact that, since joining the new site, the mod team has had to be on continuous edge checking your posts for how close they come to crossing the line.  It feels like you're trying to test our boundaries, and we're honestly not interested in playing that game with you.  We're not far off issuing temporary suspensions if things continue. Cut it out.

(Also, just to confirm eselle split the thread up. Discussions of hotel hookups can continue in the old thread, the ongoing discussion of seeking casual sex can carry on here)

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