Won't anyone think of the menz?

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Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by Bumble on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:30 am

I just wanted to rant a little...

Saw some interesting articles on Vice in the last week. There were several articles concerning financial domination where guys give money to women on the internet. The interesting thing to me (and I didn't even notice it at first) was that you are starting to hear about financial domination from the male perspective. I can't tell you how many articles I've seen over the years written by sex workers or kinky women that put a human face on these people and try to foster a culture of acceptance. Trans acceptance has been huge in the last year or so and I've seen a bunch of articles about bisexual women. I've even seen a couple articles trying to put a human face on those tragically afflicted with pedophilia. This is all fantastic and wonderful and important but I must say I've been feeling a little bit left out.

On the general interest websites I visit I've seen dozens of articles by dominatrices but not a single one by the men who frequent them. Submissive men are included as part of the background in sex-positive lifestyle articles but never have a voice or a byline. Male bisexuality is invisible. We are definitely out there. There is tons of porn directed at us and I hear submissive men are the scourge of the BDSM community. But the patriarchy is strong. Non-gay men are still bound to gender roles and we are not sexually liberated. I don't know a single guy who is openly bi or submissive, and I don't care to be the first. It is also extremely easy to hide.

Anyway, yesterday on Vice there was a piece by a female sex worker in Manhattan who was finally able to tell her family about her job and she had this to say about it: "It's been three weeks now since I've lied to anyone, and fuck it, it feels amazing."

Sounds pretty neat.

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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by BasedBuzzed on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:00 am

This rant has made me curious about the existence of male findoms. Forcing their subs to get a job and fight for that promotion in order to earn more money to feed the findom's spending habits sounds hilariously paradoxical.

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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by Conreezy on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:13 am

and I hear submissive men are the scourge of the BDSM community.

Is that true? Why would that be?

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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by Bumble on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:53 pm

Not sure if we are able to link NSFW here but basically google turns up various discussions on the ratio of submissive men to dominant women in BDSM wherein the prevailing sentiment is that the former far outnumber the latter.

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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by Enail on Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:36 pm

The way you talk about movements towards acceptance and visibility seems a little strange to me. They aren't just things that someone comes and grants you from outside; the way groups generally achieve visibility is by individual people within that group being visible.  

A lot of people at the forefront of LGBTQ rights have been people who have faced rejection and abuse because they didn't have the ability to be invisible (because they read to others as gay, because they weren't gender-conforming or weren't conforming to the gender they were assigned at birth or didn't "pass", because someone outed them against their will...) and still stood up for their value as human beings. I think almost everyone who has benefited from growing acceptance of things that were once treated as unacceptable, has done it in part thanks to the courage of people who couldn't hide.  

Many others have joined in those battles because they decided the costs of being invisible were worse than the costs of being a target. Sex workers risk discrimination and stigma to write those articles - the woman you quote got to feel the amazing feeling of not having had to lie for three weeks, by telling the truth to her friends, to her family, probably knowing that she risks rejection, shaming, harassment, discrimination for doing it. Bisexual women (and men - from what I've seen, bisexual men absolutely are taking these risks for visibility and acceptance) risk harmful reactions from both from the mainstream and the queer community to work for their place to be acknowledged and accepted.

No one gets handed acceptance, positive visibility, space in articles, without working for it. And no one gets to hide and to have those things. If you don't care to be the first, who do you think should do it for you?
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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by Bumble on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:16 pm

I see what you're saying. At the same time we inherit so much of our circumstance from others. As individuals we are handed almost all of our opportunities and privileges. I agree that the ability to hide has put the brakes on acceptance but I am hopeful that we will soon become more visible.

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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by eselle28 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:13 pm

I can understand that seeing discussion of everyone's sexual identity but your own is frustrating, and I can also understand not having the skill set or the time or the energy to be the person who corrects that. I'm not coding the games I'd like to play about women, after all, because I don't know how to code and am not very interested in learning.

That being said, I do think it's worth considering whether the same outlets would be open to carrying a piece by a man writing about just what you'd like to read. I think many, if not all, would be. I also think it's good to remember that not all of the content being shared is being shared purely for the joy of revelation. Some women who write about sex do it not so much because it's the main topic they wish to discuss as because they want to launch careers as writers and have been advised that sex is the topic people most want to hear from female writers about, especially if those writers are relatively young and attractive. In the case of women who are professional dominants, the piece may also act as free advertising, as it can be used to circulate a professional name to an audience that's interested in those services but that wouldn't think to search for them. For those writers, visibility may not be so much liberation as a business decision.

Conreezy wrote:
and I hear submissive men are the scourge of the BDSM community.

Is that true? Why would that be?

Bumble probably has a different take on it, but mine would be that a certain percentage of guys of any orientation and inclination are sort of crude and entitled and pestery about seeking sex. A somewhat overlapping percentage of guys are prone to thinking that the focus on male pleasure and male gaze they know from pornography and other kinds of sex work is something that will carry over to the kind of sex an unpaid partner might want to have.

When vanilla guys are like this, people just tend to label them gross or immature. When dominant guys are like this, sometimes people assume it's part of the role and end up excusing a lot of terrible behavior. I'd actually say this is the bigger problem in BDSM. When submissive guys are like this, it kind of clashes with the role and seems discordant as well as unpleasant, which I think earns it  more attention than the same bad behavior by guys with other tastes.
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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

Post by PintsizeBro on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:47 pm

BasedBuzzed wrote:This rant has made me curious about the existence of male findoms. Forcing their subs to get a job and fight for that promotion in order to earn more money to feed the findom's spending habits sounds hilariously paradoxical.

I've seen straight guys try and fail miserably to set themselves up as financial doms with female subs. They were all, to a man, lazy assholes who wanted to get money for nothing because they didn't realize that being a dom of any kind takes effort.

I have met a few successful male financial doms, and they were all either gay or willing to do the work for guys.

Being financially dominated just doesn't seem to appeal to women as a group, which makes perfect sense given that women are categorically economically disenfranchised.

eselle28 wrote:...a certain percentage of guys of any orientation and inclination are sort of crude and entitled and pestery about seeking sex. A somewhat overlapping percentage of guys are prone to thinking that the focus on male pleasure and male gaze they know from pornography and other kinds of sex work is something that will carry over to the kind of sex an unpaid partner might want to have.

When vanilla guys are like this, people just tend to label them gross or immature. When dominant guys are like this, sometimes people assume it's part of the role and end up excusing a lot of terrible behavior. I'd actually say this is the bigger problem in BDSM. When submissive guys are like this, it kind of clashes with the role and seems discordant as well as unpleasant, which I think earns it  more attention than the same bad behavior by guys with other tastes.

Short answer: yes, this.

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Re: Won't anyone think of the menz?

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