Re: Gendered experiences that really should not be gendered

[jcorozza]

Oh, yes, the "smile, you'd look prettier" thing is absolutely gendered.

[PintsizeBro]

Yeah, it's gendered. You might see the occasional "Boy, you look cranky today, what's up?" from one guy to another if they know each other pretty well, but certainly not a man approaching a male stranger.

[Wondering]

Or just "smile more." I had students put that on teaching evaluations back when I taught.

We teachers used to talk about how the women often got comments about their looks in their evaluations, especially their smiling and their clothes, and the men never did. Even the guy who often taught in ripped sweats didn't get comments about his clothes in his teaching evaluations.

[Chickpea Sarada]

Or just "smile more." I had students put that on teaching evaluations back when I taught.

We teachers used to talk about how the women often got comments about their looks in their evaluations, especially their smiling and their clothes, and the men never did. Even the guy who often taught in ripped sweats didn't get comments about his clothes in his teaching evaluations.

I still remember flipping off the TV screen during the 2008 US presidential campaign, particularly the guy on the news gibbering on about how Hillary Clinton looked in her outfit.  I was like, "That's not important.  I'm watching the news to decide who to vote for, not to be a fashion judge!" For the male candidates, their promises and ideas were discussed.

There's just the whole including looks in the judgement even when it's irrelevant.  Like, even if this person was ugly, her argument would still be right/valid.

[Chickpea Sarada]

Changing the last name when getting married.  Both partners keeping their own names would technically be equal, but it's seen as the woman ruling over the man or something if the woman doesn't change her name.  With so much sh** lost over a woman keeping her own name, the man taking the woman's name would probably explode some heads.

[Conreezy]

Changing the last name when getting married.  Both partners keeping their own names would technically be equal, but it's seen as the woman ruling over the man or something if the woman doesn't change her name.  With so much sh** lost over a woman keeping her own name, the man taking the woman's name would probably explode some heads.

I know a guy who took his wife's name when they married because his father was a complete piece of shit; getting rid of the name was the biggest metaphorical "fuck you" he could give his old man.

[Guest]

I quite like the joining of last names. But it's impractical in the long run to add layer after layer of names upon each other.

[reboot]

I know people who swapped last names and took their family names as middle names, which I always thought was kind of cool. So mine would be Reboot MyName HisLastName and his would be FirstName HisLastName RebootLastName.

I aso know some men that took their wives' names for reasons that ranged from aesthetic (he liked her name more) to practical (easier for people to pronounce, easier to get through immigration without hassle) to ones like Conreezy mentioned (dad was an asshole, last name was foster family that they hated).

I do believe I have heard people question their choices more so than that of women who take their husband's last name. They have a canned response (e.g. Smith is easier to say than Narkhironkanok, It was never my last name in the first place), but it has to get old answering it.

[Prajnaparamita]

I knew a lesbian couple where her last name was Goldman and her partner's last name was Steinburg. So they combined the two and changed both their last names to Burgman when they got married.

Equality?

[Guest]

I've always liked the idea of the couple mashing their names together into an entirely new one (like Prajna's example). Has a nice symbolism that works well for today's conception of family. Of course, it doesn't work so well for all combinations of names.

[Xexyz]

I'm a het guy, so should I ever get married my wife-to-be adopting my last name is on the table. And I find the idea of that very creepy. I can't really explain it, but it disturbs me on an uncanny valley-like level. So my hope is that if I ever do get married my partner would keep her name.

[Prajnaparamita]

See, I think the weirdness comes from the idea that the woman will have her identity totally subsumed by her husband's identity when she marries. For instance, this tradition used to be a lot more extreme, as in back in the day women wouldn't be referred to by their names, but as Mrs. [husband's first and last names]. For instance, I found a bunch of memos from meetings of the Daughters of the American Revolution that I assume were from my great grandmother, describing the events of the meetings and topics discussed. (DAR, and other social groups like that were what upper class/upper middle class housewives of the time did to keep themselves occupied as they couldn't work.) In the notes, which were written by the all-female members of the organization, everyone is referred to as "Mrs. Robert Waldworth" or "Mrs. Henry Davens" or "Mrs. Joseph Lexington". Even among women, writing about women, for the other women of their group, they didn't have names anymore. They were just Mrs. Their Husbands

It was really eerie. Also, even to this day that's the standard and "correct" way to address wedding invitations. Like, if my name was Jane Smith and I'm married to a dude named Joe Schmoe, the invitations would be addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Joe Schmoe". I still know some people who are very insistent that this is the way it must be.

[Wondering]

I kept my name. And my husband kept his. So much easier than having to legally change our names on all our documents.

The baby's last name, however, is hyphenated: husband's last name and mine. So many people cannot deal with the hyphenated last name. I've seen stuff in her name show up with just my last name, with the name mashed together unhyphenated, with it separated as two names and no hyphen. This isn't a gendered thing, but it seems really backwards. Lots of people have hyphenated last names.

What really drives me bonkers is people who insist on addressing me as Mrs. Mylastname. Um, no. I am not Mrs.  I could only be Mrs. if I had his last name, and I wouldn't want to be then, anyway. Learn what "Mrs" means, people. And just use "Ms" as the default. Why are we still having to say that in 2015?

I'm a het guy, so should I ever get married my wife-to-be adopting my last name is on the table.  And I find the idea of that very creepy.  I can't really explain it, but it disturbs me on an uncanny valley-like level.  So my hope is that if I ever do get married my partner would keep her name.  

This is like the opposite of a friend of mine who broke up with her finance when he lost it when she said she was keeping her last name after they got married. Or maybe he broke up with her when she said she wouldn't change it. I didn't get the specific details, but the relationship ended.

Also, even to this day that's the standard and "correct" way to address wedding invitations. Like, if my name was Jane Smith and I'm married to a dude named Joe Schmoe, the invitations would be addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Joe Schmoe". I still know some people who are very insistent that this is the way it must be.

I refused to do this on my wedding invitations except for the very old people, like my grandmother-in-law, who wanted to be addressed that way. I addressed them all as "Ms. HerFirstName and Mr. HisFirstName HisLastName" when they were married and had the same last name.

[eselle28]

What really drives me bonkers is people who insist on addressing me as Mrs. Mylastname. Um, no. I am not Mrs.  I could only be Mrs. if I had his last name, and I wouldn't want to be then, anyway. Learn what "Mrs" means, people. And just use "Ms" as the default. Why are we still having to say that in 2015?

I used to get that too. Hell, I still sometimes get it. There are some people who apparently can't use Ms. even if they have no idea as to the woman's marital status, so I get Miss when they hear my young-sounding voice on the phone and Mrs. when they meet my adult-looking (and decidedly ringless) self in person.

[Wondering]

What really got me was the loan officer on our recent house loan application information who would address me as Mrs. MyLastName and my husband and Mr. HisLastName in the same emails. Like, you know we have different last names. You put them both in the email next to each other. Gah!

[waxingjaney]

For instance, this tradition used to be a lot more extreme, as in back in the day women wouldn't be referred to by their names, but as Mrs. [husband's first and last names].

Reading through the old-time excerpts in the local paper, that was a middle 2/3rds of the 20th century sort of thing. Last two decades it fell out of use, and was uncommon before the 1920s. Probably peaked in the '50s and '60s as the older generations who didn't use that formulation passed on.

[The Wisp]

The baby's last name, however, is hyphenated: husband's last name and mine. So many people cannot deal with the hyphenated last name. I've seen stuff in her name show up with just my last name, with the name mashed together unhyphenated, with it separated as two names and no hyphen. This isn't a gendered thing, but it seems really backwards. Lots of people have hyphenated last names.

I really like the hyphenated last name thing in theory, but I always wondered: What do you do when two people with hyphenated names have children?

[WJMorris3]

All I know is if I ever get married, I'm taking my wife's last name.

[eselle28]

The baby's last name, however, is hyphenated: husband's last name and mine. So many people cannot deal with the hyphenated last name. I've seen stuff in her name show up with just my last name, with the name mashed together unhyphenated, with it separated as two names and no hyphen. This isn't a gendered thing, but it seems really backwards. Lots of people have hyphenated last names.

I really like the hyphenated last name thing in theory, but I always wondered: What do you do when two people with hyphenated names have children?

I know a couple who were in this position. They paired her mother's name with his father's name and both used the new hyphenate.

[Chickpea Sarada]

I remember getting in a forum thread about it years ago.  One man who was anti-wife-keeping-her-name said that the woman's last name came from her father anyway, so women don't really have their own names to begin with. Therefore what's the use?  Thankfully a woman then retorted that her last name is hers because she was born with it.

[Werel]

Anybody that told me that my dad's name was not my "own" name would get a punch right in the teeth, because a) the name of the person who is half my DNA is... not my name? What the fuck? b) yes, exactly, a name you spend your whole life with is very much your "own" name, and c) my first and last names sound amazing together (seriously, strangers tell me this) and you will pry my name from my cold dead hands.

Plus, my partner's last name is stupid, comes from a dad he wasn't raised by and isn't really in contact with, and has nothing to do with who he is or who he considers "family." No reason for me to take it if we ever get married, even if I wanted to somehow signify that I had joined his family. It would make much more sense for him to have his maternal grandmother's maiden name, since that is the part of his family he is closest to, was raised by, and which is best-known in his hometown, but nope! Because gender.

[Wondering]

The baby's last name, however, is hyphenated: husband's last name and mine. So many people cannot deal with the hyphenated last name. I've seen stuff in her name show up with just my last name, with the name mashed together unhyphenated, with it separated as two names and no hyphen. This isn't a gendered thing, but it seems really backwards. Lots of people have hyphenated last names.

I really like the hyphenated last name thing in theory, but I always wondered: What do you do when two people with hyphenated names have children?

That's for them to decide and figure out in a way that works for them. I wasn't going to not have my last name as part of my child's, though. Then it would be like I was the outsider in the family if she and my husband had the same last name and I didn't. Or vice versa.

I remember getting in a forum thread about it years ago.  One man who was anti-wife-keeping-her-name said that the woman's last name came from her father anyway, so women don't really have their own names to begin with.  Therefore what's the use?  Thankfully a woman then retorted that her last name is hers because she was born with it.

It's BS anyway. Even using that logic, that statement's only true if you have your father's last name. Not everyone does. One of my good friends was raised by a never-married single mom and has her mom's last name as her last name. And my friend kept it when she got married.

Also, can I talk about how pissed I am that my baby's official birth certificate from the state says "Father's name" and "Mother's maiden name?" That implies that my current last name is my husband's. It also implies that all parents are married. Which, baloney. I wrote a cranky email to the state records office about that.

[The Wisp]

Being called a manchild if you don't have a full time job, all your emotional shit together, and are ready for a committed relationship by your mid-to-late twenties. "Womanchild" is rarely used, and even when it is it doesn't have as much negative connotations, despite there being just as many womenchildren as manchildren IME (some of whom I'm related to!).

[reboot]

Being called a manchild if you don't have a full time job, all your emotional shit together, and are ready for a committed relationship by your mid-to-late twenties. "Womanchild" is rarely used, and even when it is it doesn't have as much negative connotations, despite there being just as many womenchildren as manchildren IME (some of whom I'm related to!).

Although we do get called girls long past the age of majority. Hell, people 60+ call me girl still :/ I am 40+

[caliseivy]

Found this article on Facebook of 41 needlessly gendered items and while I can kind of see a reason for gendering a few, most just make no damn sense.

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