On being interesting [rant/disc.]

[Guest]

I'm writing this while listening to Iron Maiden tunes so I don't get as angry or depressed (and because I'm working on an Eddie painting but thats beside the point), but I do need to get this off my chest.

Something that ticked me off on a DNL Facebook post was the reply to a comment to the Doc's post asking why dudes feel sexually invisible. I can tell you why for myself, but that's another topic for another day. No, one commenter said he felt invisible for self-esteem issues and somebody replied he should "Become interesting" and suggested they find something they're passionate about. Okay, seems solid enough, sorta.

-cough-

But, well... I'm pretty passionate about a lot of things. I play guitar (Ernie Ball strings are the bestest!), I draw/paint (Wacom and Pentel forever), I can speak Spanish (practice it in every day conversation with my mom), I've gone to Haiti to shoot a short documentary for my church, I know my beers, I try to keep up with current events/issues/politics as best I can, I know my movies, actors, directors, my RPGs, political figures and bunch of other junk I can't remember off the top of my head.

What more do you want from me!? You want me to recite the most obscure Shakespeare passages? Set myself on fire and jump through hoops? Swallow swords? Do backflips? Get a concussion? I'm running out of ideas here.

[Jayce]

A while back I learnt that being interesting dosen't just mean to have things that you like to do,that curious you, that you enjoy and a variety them. You also need to learn some advertising skills in order for other people to think you're interesting. You have to learn to sell your interests, talk about them in interesting, curious and passionate ways.

[nearly_takuan]

For context:

I still, and in fact constantly, feel romantically and sexually invisible. I think part of this is because of some long-standing self-esteem issues, but there has been a significant dearth in female attentions towards me. I literally cannot remember the last time I felt like someone was actually interested in getting to know me a little better than "just friends."

Meanwhile, my own advances (read: me being extremely nervous while asking a cute girl if they would like for us to get to know each other a bit better) have never been returned favorably. Almost all of the girls or ladies I've been attracted to have either been uninterested in me, or weren't single to begin with.

I feel sexually invisible because it has always seemed like I am. No one ever seems to be attracted to me, or my appearance, or my behavior, and as such my extremely low self-esteem keeps getting perpetuated.

Become interesting. It's not hard to do, you don't have to be brilliant or rich. Just find something you're passionate about, and start sharing that with the world. Not only is it an excellent way to meet people, but interesting people are sexy people. So, become interesting!

I went and looked this up mainly because it seemed odd to say "what more do you want from me?" if the context had just been self-esteem. I mean, being interesting enough to view yourself as interesting really does seem like it would be good advice if someone's just talking about self-esteem or self-respect.

Several of the activities you or I might (in your case, did) list as things that are "interesting" about ourselves are things we do alone, which most people (even friends) might not really know the full extent of. I find that these "be interesting" comments tend to come from extroverts, and generally people who think doing things with large groups of people is "interesting" and can afford to be "passionate" about such things. "It's such a great way to meet people!" Yeah, only if meeting people isn't such an exhausting or anxiety-inducing chore all by itself that it's difficult to keep up that level of interest. There's more than one way for privilege to escape one's notice.

But I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the first comment, and your reaction, both come back to talking about most people's desire for physical social interaction and the significant effects of external validation and attention (or lack of it) on one's self-perception.

It seems like even those of us who don't have too much trouble interacting with people on a platonic level, or attracting platonic attention, can struggle with the other forms. (Is this also the case in the other direction?) So... unless we're all independently arriving at the wrong conclusions, believing erroneously in sharp lines between different forms of relationships and expressions of personal interest, I think those must be very different sets of skills. I certainly haven't found much of a connection between them.

FWIW, I'm right there with you and First Comment Guy... you already knew that, though.

[reboot]

I think the "be interesting" in the comments was too broad a response and kind of missed the point. The quoteed comment mentions people (he only mentions women, but I suspect men too) want to be friends with him. That is the kind of interest activities will get you. Which is good because it shows you are likeable.

Sexual or romantic interest, on the other hand, is the next step and has to be built person by person. It is a combination of appearance, deportment, and behavior that shows you are romantically and/or sexually interested in the person and highlights why you would be a good person to be involved with. It is a combination of words, gestures, expressions, etc.

[Guest]

This is a neat question!

Being interesting is something I've never had problems with, and it's not really because I'm passionate about a huge amount of stuff. It's because I can project passion like no one else on the planet. This comes naturally to me, so I can't really tell you what I do to make it happen, but I have an interesting anecdote about it NOT related to dating: when I was interviewing for a job once, someone asked about projects I'd been working on, and I launched into a description of one of them. When I finished, the interviewer just blinked at me and said, "You're fantastic, but I can't understand why you're looking for a new job: you clearly love the one you have." (Spoiler: I HATED that project.)

No matter how passionate you are about a thing (or not passionate) what comes across as interesting is how well you sell that passion. DNL posted a thing several years ago about how to talk about your passions which I think is a must-read for anyone who wants to come across as more interesting: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/06/talkin-nerdy-talking-about-your-passions/

Be sure to watch the Tom Cruise video in there.

[kath]

One thing I hear a lot is "to be more interesting, be more interested". That could mean, "get deeper into your passions" ... but I think another way to look at it that is also useful is "be more interested in other people." So you can't just have great hobbies. Being able to talk about your hobbies well is also a plus. But you also have to know how to connect with other people and bring them in to the discussion about your hobby - by being interested in them.

I agree, though, that being "interesting" might not be the problem First Comment Guy has, because he said in his comment that people are interested in being friends with him. So he needs to be "more interesting as a romantic problem" and having "how do I become more interesting romantically" with "become more interesting romantically" is clearly not actionable advice.

It's possible that he might have problems being engaging - I'm not sure what "it's been forever since anyone was interested in being more than friends" because I don't know how interested in him he wants his friends to be. But advice about building attraction would probably cover the "interesting" piece, to whatever degree it's a factor, while also giving some guidance on other things that will also help.

[Mel]

Yeah, I agree with those above that the person who made the "become interesting" comment wasn't really addressing what the first poster actually said. I'd also point out, Mikey, that the comment wasn't directed at you at all, so there's no reason to assume the commenter would have told you that you need to become more interesting.

To address the "what more do you want from me?" question... To be honest, IMHO if you (general you) are "interesting" enough that a reasonable number of people want to and seem to enjoy being friends with you, the problem is probably not that you need to develop some other random quality to make them more-interested-than-friends in you. From what I've seen and my own experience, people who have healthy friendships but can't find romantic partners are usually in one of three situations:

1) You aren't putting yourself out there romantically enough--either not meeting enough new people or not making overtures toward romance with enough people. The number of people who are going to be romantically available and into you personally, for any "you", is going to be a relatively small percentage of the total number of people out there. If you're only meeting three new women a year in settings where dating is appropriate (e.g., not work clients or whatever), that's going to give you almost no chance of finding a romantic partner. Similarly, if you're meeting a fair number of new women but waiting for the ones you're interested in to express clear romantic interest in you rather than asking them out yourself, you're probably losing a lot of chances due to a variety of factors from women being socialized to be subtle in their romantic overtures to people frequently not considering someone as a romantic prospect until the idea is put on the table, especially if you're meeting them in non-romantic contexts (e.g., there are guys in high school and university I knew who I probably would have agreed to go on a date with to get to know them better and see if a romantic spark developed, but who I wouldn't have pursued because I hadn't spent enough time with them to know I wanted more and I'd be hesitant to give someone the impression I was into them when I wasn't yet). Solution: Find activities you enjoy that will bring you into contact with more people, and/or make sure you're actually asking out people you're interested in rather than assuming they wouldn't want to just because they haven't gone after you.

2) It's not that there's something people want you to do that you're not so much as you're doing something that people would rather you didn't--i.e., some part of your behavior or demeanor is acceptable to friends but discourages romantic interest. This could include anything from creepy-appearing behaviors (standing too close, getting too touchy, making questionable comments, etc.) that only come out around people you're romantically interested in, to generally unappealing behaviors (like complaining/being negative about yourself and/or others a lot, being argumentative, using a posture or tone that makes you appear angry or withdrawn, being sloppy with personal care, etc.) that people will accept as friends because of your good qualities but that make them hesitant to get closer. From the limited info the poster gave, I would suspect this is his problem--he mentions getting very nervous when talking to a cute girl, and also his phrasing "would you like for us to get to know each other a bit better?" sounds very hesitant and non-committal, so I'd wonder if his nervousness is having him behave in ways that come across as creepy, overly intense, and/or unappealingly skittish. Solution: Ask trusted friends, especially if they've seen you approach women with romantic interest, for pointers (and accept those graciously); if you don't have friends you trust to be that candid with you, speaking with a professional may help; try to be more aware of the reactions of others when you're in social situations in general and take note if they're expressing distaste or disapproval in certain behaviors.

3) You are in a locale where unfortunately there are very few people who are compatible romantically, even if you can find people whose company you enjoy and who enjoy your company enough to be friends. (e.g., Most of the people around you are looking for something that'll quickly become serious, while you just want to date around casually, or vice versa.) Solution: Broaden your social circles; if it's bad enough, look into moving elsewhere.

Now, I might be totally off base here (and others are welcome to say so ). But I know for myself if I've been interested enough in a guy, and enjoyed his company enough, that I'd want to be reasonably good friends with him, I've been open to something romantic happening except where a) physical attraction wasn't there, which you can't do a whole lot about beyond the basics of grooming, clothes, and body language, b) I didn't like the way he behaved specifically with women he was romantically interested in/involved with, c) he started behaving in some way that made me want to back off of the friendship part too, or d) practical life situation issue like one of us being involved with someone else, one of us moving soon, etc., which doesn't mean the romantic interest wasn't there, just something was in the way of acting on it.

[eselle28]

I think kath might be on to something. Dating advice sometimes sounds contradictory because it is trying to help people with different problems correct for those problems. For some people, their problem is that their lives consist of work and television and that they have little to talk about with people who don't know their friends or have a vested interest in what their commute was like (those people with terrible online dating profiles often fall into this group). For others, it's that their interests are solitary pursuits that are obscure to most other people, and that they'd benefit from learning how to talk to others about them in an educational but non-condescending way and from picking up a few more general topics.

Not everyone has those problems, though. If you already have some passions and at least some of them can be shared with others, the problem might be more about being interested (and showing that you're interested) in others or about brushing up your flirting skills so that you build sexual interest as well as platonic interest.

[Gentleman Johnny]

I saw this relative to jobs but it applies to being interesting, too.
Step 1. Find something you love, no matter how anyone else feels about it. Do that for yourself.
Step 2. Find something you at least kind of enjoy that other people value. Do that for a living.
If they're the same thing, great, but they don't have to be.

Mikey, it sounds to me like you already do plenty of interesting stuff. You're not someone who's going to lack for conversation or passions. If you date artsy types of any stripe, you'v got plenty of things to bond over.
BUT. . .
are you going about any of those passions in a way that lets you meet people? Do you go to open mic nights to play or group art events? You've found the things you love. No find venues where those things are valuable to other people and it gets much easier to find your dating pool.

[Guest]

A while back I learnt that being interesting dosen't just mean to have things that you like to do,that curious you, that you enjoy and a variety them. You also need to learn some advertising skills in order for other people to think you're interesting. You have to learn to sell your interests, talk about them in interesting, curious and passionate ways.

Advertise? I don't think I understand.  I say this because nobody asks what I like to do ever, so I'm not about to just randomly say HURR I LIKE TO DO $thing.

For context:

Yes, that. Ugh. I know they meant well, but... I dunno, it's not the best advice.

I went and looked this up mainly because it seemed odd to say "what more do you want from me?" if the context had just been self-esteem. I mean, being interesting enough to view yourself as interesting really does seem like it would be good advice if someone's just talking about self-esteem or self-respect.

I mean already dabble and work on things I find (and others may) fascinating. So what's the next step when I don't see anything a proper foot hold?

Several of the activities you or I might (in your case, did) list as things that are "interesting" about ourselves are things we do alone, which most people (even friends) might not really know the full extent of. I find that these "be interesting" comments tend to come from extroverts, and generally people who think doing things with large groups of people is "interesting" and can afford to be "passionate" about such things. "It's such a great way to meet people!" Yeah, only if meeting people isn't such an exhausting or anxiety-inducing chore all by itself that it's difficult to keep up that level of interest. There's more than one way for privilege to escape one's notice.

That's just a FEW of the many things I enjoy doing. There are plenty of other things I like to do with other people as well, for example collaborating on short films with others is amazing, I've met some eccentric and interesting people through my internship because some of the stuff they do is different from mine. Even if it's a solitary activity, I don't mind hearing what people like to do.

But I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the first comment, and your reaction, both come back to talking about most people's desire for physical social interaction and the significant effects of external validation and attention (or lack of it) on one's self-perception.

I'm not sure, but my reaction was more of a knee-jerk reaction. It's infuriating and frustrating as hell to read that when you have been an active participant in a myriad of different things ranging from volunteer work at cons, to actual work, to classes, to social events/gatherings, etc. All of which I've partaken out of my own freewill and not through the suggestion of anyone else.

It seems like even those of us who don't have too much trouble interacting with people on a platonic level, or attracting platonic attention, can struggle with the other forms. (Is this also the case in the other direction?) So... unless we're all independently arriving at the wrong conclusions, believing erroneously in sharp lines between different forms of relationships and expressions of personal interest, I think those must be very different sets of skills. I certainly haven't found much of a connection between them.

FWIW, I'm right there with you and First Comment Guy... you already knew that, though.

I dunno, man. This shit is getting more and more complicated by the day, I feel. Any and all conclusions I draw are always wrong, the only one I can draw that no one can tell me wrong is that I think girls don't [romantically] like me. So far, nobody's said anything to the contrary.

I think the "be interesting" in the comments was too broad a response and kind of missed the point. The quoteed comment mentions people (he only mentions women, but I suspect men too) want to be friends with him. That is the kind of interest activities will get you. Which is good because it shows you are likeable.

Sexual or romantic interest, on the other hand, is the next step and has to be built person by person. It is a combination of appearance, deportment, and behavior that shows you are romantically and/or sexually interested in the person and highlights why you would be a good person to be involved with. It is a combination of words, gestures, expressions, etc.

Being liked by either gender in a platonic fashion is fine, I can make friends, that ain't hard, I've been making friends since I was a kid. Sure I may be introverted, but I'm not socially awkward. Sure, I'll say stupid shit all the time, but at least I'm honest about that with myself and others ("Sorry, that was a bad joke."/"That wasn't smart.")

And if sexual/romantic interest needs to be built, then I'm a terrible contractor that clearly can't read blueprints/plans that were never handed to me in the first place.

No matter how passionate you are about a thing (or not passionate) what comes across as interesting is how well you sell that passion.  DNL posted a thing several years ago about how to talk about your passions which I think is a must-read for anyone who wants to come across as more interesting: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/06/talkin-nerdy-talking-about-your-passions/

Be sure to watch the Tom Cruise video in there.

I took theatre back in the day in high school and I was already a pretty upbeat kid, so I think I can sell stuff pretty well. How else do you think I managed to get a classroom full of high school seniors to watch The Good the Bad and The Ugly instead of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid for my class? And I've seen the Tom Cruise video too, I've read that article to the best of my ability and I try to incorporate that amount of passion when I talk about painting or my guitar or swim. For example: whenever I wanna describe the feeling I get when I swim for yards on end, I describe it as being truly free, as in, I'm free of who I am, I'm free of what scares me and how nothing matters but the swim.

One thing I hear a lot is "to be more interesting, be more interested". That could mean, "get deeper into your passions" ... but I think another way to look at it that is also useful is "be more interested in other people." So you can't just have great hobbies. Being able to talk about your hobbies well is also a plus. But you also have to know how to connect with other people and bring them in to the discussion about your hobby - by being interested in them.

Since I learned about active listening, I always pay attention even when I get distracted by someone or something, I always pick the conversation back to what the other person was saying. I always say, "Sorry, you saying something about $thing and how it does XYZ? Blah blah blah." When talking to someone I always try to keep myself attentive and lean in so I can hear what they're saying better if we're sitting close enough.

Yeah, I agree with those above that the person who made the "become interesting" comment wasn't really addressing what the first poster actually said.  I'd also point out, Mikey, that the comment wasn't directed at you at all, so there's no reason to assume the commenter would have told you that you need to become more interesting.  

Yes, I know that for a fact that it wasn't directed at me. Buuuut, I took it personally because I'm in the same boat as this dude, only difference is that not many people have ever shown an interest in my dumb ass.

To address the "what more do you want from me?" question... To be honest, IMHO if you (general you) are "interesting" enough that a reasonable number of people want to and seem to enjoy being friends with you, the problem is probably not that you need to develop some other random quality to make them more-interested-than-friends in you. From what I've seen and my own experience, people who have healthy friendships but can't find romantic partners are usually in one of three situations:

Which is the frustrating part.

1) You aren't putting yourself out there romantically enough--either not meeting enough new people or not making overtures toward romance with enough people. The number of people who are going to be romantically available and into you personally, for any "you", is going to be a relatively small percentage of the total number of people out there.  If you're only meeting three new women a year in settings where dating is appropriate (e.g., not work clients or whatever), that's going to give you almost no chance of finding a romantic partner. Similarly, if you're meeting a fair number of new women but waiting for the ones you're interested in to express clear romantic interest in you rather than asking them out yourself, you're probably losing a lot of chances due to a variety of factors from women being socialized to be subtle in their romantic overtures to people frequently not considering someone as a romantic prospect until the idea is put on the table, especially if you're meeting them in non-romantic contexts (e.g., there are guys in high school and university I knew who I probably would have agreed to go on a date with to get to know them better and see if a romantic spark developed, but who I wouldn't have pursued because I hadn't spent enough time with them to know I wanted more and I'd be hesitant to give someone the impression I was into them when I wasn't yet). Solution: Find activities you enjoy that will bring you into contact with more people, and/or make sure you're actually asking out people you're interested in rather than assuming they wouldn't want to just because they haven't gone after you.

That's what a friend of mine tells me, to put myself out there. Okay, how do I do that? I leave the house and I do have interactions with people, but that doesn't make undies drop (duh). So far the number people that are into me is 0. Unfortunately, you're right, I don't meet enough women and the only reason I don't make many romantic moves is because, I don't want to lose them as friends either, so not only am I already anxious, but I'm terrified of losing people I care about at a platonic level too. I've done plenty of activities that I enjoy and that have involved plenty of people... none of them women though. -facepalm- I went to a sort of RPG Meetup a few weeks ago and not a woman in sight except for one and she was with somebody, I didn't know who and didn't feel like looking like a jackass especially in front of my little brother.

2) It's not that there's something people want you to do that you're not so much as you're doing something that people would rather you didn't--i.e., some part of your behavior or demeanor is acceptable to friends but discourages romantic interest. This could include anything from creepy-appearing behaviors (standing too close, getting too touchy, making questionable comments, etc.) that only come out around people you're romantically interested in, to generally unappealing behaviors (like complaining/being negative about yourself and/or others a lot, being argumentative, using a posture or tone that makes you appear angry or withdrawn, being sloppy with personal care, etc.) that people will accept as friends because of your good qualities but that make them hesitant to get closer. From the limited info the poster gave, I would suspect this is his problem--he mentions getting very nervous when talking to a cute girl, and also his phrasing "would you like for us to get to know each other a bit better?" sounds very hesitant and non-committal, so I'd wonder if his nervousness is having him behave in ways that come across as creepy, overly intense, and/or unappealingly skittish.  Solution: Ask trusted friends, especially if they've seen you approach women with romantic interest, for pointers (and accept those graciously); if you don't have friends you trust to be that candid with you, speaking with a professional may help; try to be more aware of the reactions of others when you're in social situations in general and take note if they're expressing distaste or disapproval in certain behaviors.

The only times I'm really that much of a butt is with people I know and am close to. The only times I really complain about myself is in private, also with people I know, trust and am close to. I will say I can get nervous/anxious when I'm asking someone out, but that's about it, talking to girls I find attractive is fine, I've done it before, but I can't exactly walk up to one like an idiot. The two gals I intern with are amazingly cute and hilarious, but I'm usually super cool with them.

Unfortunately, most friends that I'm close with, I don't let them see me approach anyone I'm interested in romantically. Ever.

3) You are in a locale where unfortunately there are very few people who are compatible romantically, even if you can find people whose company you enjoy and who enjoy your company enough to be friends. (e.g., Most of the people around you are looking for something that'll quickly become serious, while you just want to date around casually, or vice versa.) Solution: Broaden your social circles; if it's bad enough, look into moving elsewhere.

Eventually I'll have to move, but more for career/job prospects, not social prospects. I find that to be a silly and extreme thing to do, but if it works for some, then by all means go for it. For the field I wanna get into, which is the film industry, I need to move to Los Angeles, which considering what it's like up there, I feel like I'll be struggling even harder than I am now.

I think kath might be on to something. Dating advice sometimes sounds contradictory because it is trying to help people with different problems correct for those problems. For some people, their problem is that their lives consist of work and television and that they have little to talk about with people who don't know their friends or have a vested interest in what their commute was like (those people with terrible online dating profiles often fall into this group). For others, it's that their interests are solitary pursuits that are obscure to most other people, and that they'd benefit from learning how to talk to others about them in an educational but non-condescending way and from picking up a few more general topics.

Not everyone has those problems, though. If you already have some passions and at least some of them can be shared with others, the problem might be more about being interested (and showing that you're interested) in others or about brushing up your flirting skills so that you build sexual interest as well as platonic interest.

No, I don't exactly have those problems. I've been pretty busy this month, it's been awesome. I do have the issue of indicating that I'm interested, but I don't know how well received that interest would be and I'd prefer not being ostracized for expressing an interest in someone and them chew me out for being an idiot.

And that dreaded f-word. I don't know how to flirt (still) or maybe I do, I haven't the slightest clue.

I saw this relative to jobs but it applies to being interesting, too.
Step 1. Find something you love, no matter how anyone else feels about it. Do that for yourself.
Step 2. Find something you at least kind of enjoy that other people value. Do that for a living.
If they're the same thing, great, but they don't have to be.

Mikey, it sounds to me like you already do plenty of interesting stuff. You're not someone who's going to lack for conversation or passions. If you date artsy types of any stripe, you'v got plenty of things to bond over.
BUT. . .
are you going about any of those passions in a way that lets you meet people? Do you go to open mic nights to play or group art events? You've found the things you love. No find venues where those things are valuable to other people and it gets much easier to find your dating pool.

Step 1: Done, I play guitar, paint, etc.
Step 2: Also done (well, I'm getting there), I wanna make movies and I just may have gotten my first freelance corporate video gig.

Well thanks, I do think a lot of the shit I do can be pretty interesting (or boring depending on who you are). And yes, I do love me the artsy types too. :3

As for your other question...


Short answer, no. I haven't been to any of that kind of stuff, the excuse being that I never know when any of that is happening. Plus when that stuff is going down, it's usually all in the hipster areas I don't belong in. Aside from definitely being outta my element, I'm no musician, I can prolly take a crack at it and pretend to be Hendrix, but I only have one guitar and I don't wanna set it on fire.

[Mel]

It sounds to me like it's pretty obvious the problem isn't that you're not interesting enough, it's that you're meeting relatively few women and afraid to ask out those you do meet who you're interested in. How do you know the number of people who are into you is zero? Maybe there are women who know you who find you romantically appealing, but who haven't pursued you openly for the same reasons you haven't them--afraid you don't feel that way about them, worried about making things awkward, etc.

So try to figure out some activities you'd enjoy that might lead to you meeting more women (maybe your friends can suggest some?), and work on that anxiety. There's nothing wrong or unpleasant about saying to a woman whose company you're enjoying, "Hey, you want to go on a date this weekend?" If she says no, no big deal, you were just checking, as long as you're cool with the no, it's unlikely she'll have an issue. It's if you build it up to be a huge deal and come on intense that people feel they need to back off after.

[Gentleman Johnny]

As for your other question...


Short answer, no. I haven't been to any of that kind of stuff, the excuse being that I never know when any of that is happening. Plus when that stuff is going down, it's usually all in the hipster areas I don't belong in. Aside from definitely being outta my element, I'm no musician, I can prolly take a crack at it and pretend to be Hendrix, but I only have one guitar and I don't wanna set it on fire.

OK, so maybe not for music in particular. I think you get the idea. I've been realizing that my passions keep me in the same small circle right now, so I'm trying to expand what I do with them. What I posted above was my own thought process of what to do.

[nearly_takuan]

Hm. Right now I'm not doing much to put myself out there because I'm just tired of everything. But I don't think that's really been my problem before now.

I also can't think of many better places than here to find leftist, atheist-friendly, educated young women who at least want to be open-minded.

I'm not going to rule out the second option, but like Mikey, I don't have a way to identify it yet; I've never felt comfortable asking someone out where someone else could hear. (A "professional" costs money, right? That's going to have to wait, then.)

Any indirect ways to practice doing awkward/uncomfortable things in front of people you know? (Acting, singing, and jogging don't count for me, for whatever reason.)

[Guest]

It sounds to me like it's pretty obvious the problem isn't that you're not interesting enough, it's that you're meeting relatively few women and afraid to ask out those you do meet who you're interested in.  How do you know the number of people who are into you is zero? Maybe there are women who know you who find you romantically appealing, but who haven't pursued you openly for the same reasons you haven't them--afraid you don't feel that way about them, worried about making things awkward, etc.

So try to figure out some activities you'd enjoy that might lead to you meeting more women (maybe your friends can suggest some?), and work on that anxiety.  There's nothing wrong or unpleasant about saying to a woman whose company you're enjoying, "Hey, you want to go on a date this weekend?" If she says no, no big deal, you were just checking, as long as you're cool with the no, it's unlikely she'll have an issue.  It's if you build it up to be a huge deal and come on intense that people feel they need to back off after.

Basically, I don't really have much of a clue on how to get over myself. But how do I know zero women like me? I call it a gut feeling/instinct. I would also be willing to bet that they could sniff out my attraction to them far quicker than I could sniff out their attraction to me. Apparently, I'm bad at hiding it as friend put it back in high school.

That's not a bad idea, but I think San Diego might just be a shitty place for singles because I've been to quite a few events and bars and whatever and I see a lot of couples more than anything. Also, all my friends are either nerds (they don't know what's going on ever) or hipsters (hipster only events). And that's what I thought too but, it turns out some girls just don't wanna talk to me after the fact. :\ There was a girl who I asked out back in February and I got the whole "lets just be friends" schpiel, but she hasn't texted me much since, and stopped snapchatting me for whatever reason back in August.

OK, so maybe not for music in particular. I think you get the idea. I've been realizing that my passions keep me in the same small circle right now, so I'm trying to expand what I do with them. What I posted above was my own thought process of what to do.

I see what you mean. I thought about doing some open mic stand-up stuff too to see how that would go and because it's something I've wanted to do for a long time.

[Dan_Brodribb]

I thought about doing some open mic stand-up stuff too to see how that would go and because it's something I've wanted to do for a long time.

Do it. It's fun.

Careful though. There aren't many professions out there where your job is to say what you really feel about the big and little things on your mind. It can be addictive.

A tip: Most people in a crowd don't get Iron Maiden jokes, but the people who DO get them like them a lot. For them, the Steve Harris Jokes Men Do Live On and On.

Hope the painting is going well.

[Guest]

Do it. It's fun.

Careful though. There aren't many professions out there where your job is to say what you really feel about the big and little things on your mind. It can be addictive.

A tip:  Most people in a crowd don't get Iron Maiden jokes, but the people who DO get them like them a lot. For them, the Steve Harris Jokes Men Do Live On and On.

Hope the painting is going well.

Thanks, I just need to find an open night for myself (which there are some in San Diego) and I'd hope to make mostly nerdy and/or self-deprecating jokes about how stupid I was growing up.

And I finished that Eddie painting too btw as well as a new one. :3

[kath]

Unless the hipster friends are being jerks about it, or unless all the people you meet end up up being really shallow, going to "hipster only" events might not be the end of the world. I say this as someone who can "read" as a hipster, but I don't actually have the key hipster trait of liking things ironically. I am actually really earnest. It might be that your friends go to events that attract "real" hipsters, people who look like hipsters, and possibly a lot of people who don't even look like hipsters who might be the large minority.

I live in a city that is roughly the size of San Diego and has a reputation for there being nothing to do, but there is only nothing to do if you have put literally no effort into finding things. In San Diego that might not be the case, but googling and meetup have always stood me in good stead. Tech groups on the design side (IE digital painting and concept art) as well as art groups will likely include some women.

There are also tons of event listing websites, and your local alt weekly (which is apparently the San Diego Reader) should have lots of listings, which will be more or less easy to meet people at depending on what they are and how you like meeting people.

[Guest]

Unless the hipster friends are being jerks about it, or unless all the people you meet end up up being really shallow, going to "hipster only" events might not be the end of the world. I say this as someone who can "read" as a hipster, but I don't actually have the key hipster trait of liking things ironically. I am actually really earnest. It might be that your friends go to events that attract "real" hipsters, people who look like hipsters, and possibly a lot of people who don't even look like hipsters who might be the large minority.

The main hipster friends in question didn't start out as hipsters, actually. But these friends in question can be very clique-y and even if they do invite me to outings, I feel really out of place. One of my main hipster friends moved to Seattle to go to school and she had her going away party in a little hipster shop that was closed for the night, it was neato, but definitely not my scene. I'm too normal to be a hipster despite the inclinations, because I too read as a hipster for some. My boss asked me once if I was a hipster.

I live in a city that is roughly the size of San Diego and has a reputation for there being nothing to do, but there is only nothing to do if you have put literally no effort into finding things. In San Diego that might not be the case, but googling and meetup have always stood me in good stead. Tech groups on the design side (IE digital painting and concept art) as well as art groups will likely include some women.

Yeah, I've found some interesting stuff through Facebook groups, actually. A buddy of mine introduced me to FetLife, which I joined and attended a couple of local kinkster mixers. Funnily enough, those mixers are held in what could be considered the gay district of San Diego, and I made the mistake of wearing my Dark Side of the Moon shirt. Many lulz were had.

But them kinksters, they're a real eccentric crowd, boy I tell ya hwat. /HankHill

There are also tons of event listing websites, and your local alt weekly (which is apparently the San Diego Reader) should have lots of listings, which will be more or less easy to meet people at depending on what they are and how you like meeting people.

There's the Reader and their rival CityBeat, being an introvert makes going to events a little tough sometimes. Except during San Diego Comic-Con I almost get a high running through the crowds. I won't lie though, I have and do like meeting girls at parties with enough booze in my system which is a terrible and unwise way to meet girls. But I can be pretty smart about it. ;D

[celette482]

That's actually pretty telling.

Because you know what alcohol does? It turns us into the people that we are deep down, when we aren't inhibited (good or bad inhibitions). That jerk who gets into fights whenever he gets drunk? Yeah, he was always that ragey, he just likes his job enough to not punch his boss. We spoke objectively better, more fluent French on my foreign study program after a glass or two of wine. Objectively better because we weren't so busy worrying about screwing it up that we just talked and all our knowledge poured through effortlessly, like so much Burgundian table wine.

A guy who likes talking to girls at parties drunk? Who's good at it? He's actually a fun person that girls are interested in, when he doesn't get in his own way.

[Guest]

That's actually pretty telling.

Because you know what alcohol does? It turns us into the people that we are deep down, when we aren't inhibited (good or bad inhibitions). That jerk who gets into fights whenever he gets drunk? Yeah, he was always that ragey, he just likes his job enough to not punch his boss. We spoke objectively better, more fluent French on my foreign study program after a glass or two of wine. Objectively better because we weren't so busy worrying about screwing it up that we just talked and all our knowledge poured through effortlessly, like so much Burgundian table wine.

A guy who likes talking to girls at parties drunk? Who's good at it? He's actually a fun person that girls are interested in, when he doesn't get in his own way.

There were some cuties that were as drunk as I was or maybe they weren't. I don't recall, but there were certainly some sober girls.

There was a real weird disconnect the last time I got wasted off my ass; when that happened, I felt like a real scumbag "hitting on" some of the girls at the party, but at the same time I was wary of some of the signals I was giving off (although it was a pretty half-assed attempt) so I didn't give a shit. I was definitely looking to get laid that night... aaaand that didn't happen. Felt bad man, was sorta depressed the following morning. They could prolly smell my hornyness from a mile away when I was drunk.

Also, is there a way to measure your libido without having sex? Because I feel like I have a high libido and I'm getting real tired of masturbation. Sure it feels great, but goddamn it I wanna experience my orgasm with someone else with me. And no, I don't wanna pay for it, not only is it expensive, but I don't feel comfy with that.

I'm just tired of being alone and tired of being afraid of women so I can stop being alone, really. But like my fear of rejection just gets in the way and I end up do in nothing. I thought about getting  chemical castrarion and that's expensive.

[BasedBuzzed]

Take in vino veritas with a truckload of salt. Alcohol is just another altered state of mind, it isn't anymore "real you" than you hopped up on other drugs or during a major depressive episode or when on new relationship energy.

The person who gets into fights when bamboozed isn't a rageaholic, but does show that he does not care about his reckless behaviour. Same with a better skill at languages/speeching/jokes/flirting/etcetera when tipsy(once you're so drunk it start intervening with these skills, does it mean you're actually bad at them deep down?). I'm not saying this to undermine the notion that alcohol can mend some anxiety, but I've seen too many people go "I don't even have guts when drunk, I must be a failure after all" to not add some commentary.

[celette482]

I think it cures a very specific sort of hang-up, the inhibitory hang-up. Which can be good or bad. A guy who only gets in fights when he's drunk has some sort of thing in his head that says "you can't just fight people even though you really want to, really badly" (socially good thing) People who are fluent but non-native French speakers have all those grammar rules floating around in their heads that get in the way of their fluency. And some people have a narrative that they can't be charming and they overthink everything they say (like.... King's Speech with stuttering) and that has a deleterious effect, but when drunk you can't overthink things?

It's not a serves-all solution and it's not even a great solution for those problems it solves. but if you are tongue-tied without alcohol and fluent with alcohol, the solution is to replicate the ease of alcohol without the bartab.

[Guest]

The person who gets into fights when bamboozed isn't a rageaholic, but does show that he does not care about his reckless behaviour. Same with a better skill at languages/speeching/jokes/flirting/etcetera when tipsy(once you're so drunk it start intervening with these skills, does it mean you're actually bad at them deep down?).  I'm not saying this to undermine the notion that alcohol can mend some anxiety, but I've seen too many people go "I don't even have guts when drunk, I must be a failure after all" to not add some commentary.

I'm of the train of thought, "Okay, I fucked up even when I'm drunk, I still suck, I just need to get better. I need to make moves... but I don't wanna be a scumbag."

That's where I'm stuck, I have this odd catch-22 where I don't wanna be a douche but I feel like I need to be a douche to get anywhere with women. I'm supposed to "go for it" without asking? What?

I think it cures a very specific sort of hang-up, the inhibitory hang-up. Which can be good or bad. A guy who only gets in fights when he's drunk has some sort of thing in his head that says "you can't just fight people even though you really want to, really badly" (socially good thing) People who are fluent but non-native French speakers have all those grammar rules floating around in their heads that get in the way of their fluency. And some people have a narrative that they can't be charming and they overthink everything they say (like.... King's Speech with stuttering) and that has a deleterious effect, but when drunk you can't overthink things?

It's not a serves-all solution and it's not even a great solution for those problems it solves. but if you are tongue-tied without alcohol and fluent with alcohol, the solution is to replicate the ease of alcohol without the bartab.

All booze does is turn off inhibitions. What you do without them inhibitions is up to you and your responsibility, but the booze definitely helps in the girls department.

When I'm drunk, my train of thought becomes "Dude, I'm drunk, so I can *almost* say and do whatever the hell I want! Yay!" Course I gotta keep in mind that I gotta be cool, as in I gotta keep my hands visible at all times, which is when having a cup in your hand comes in handy very well.

[Spiffo]

I'm of the train of thought, "Okay, I fucked up even when I'm drunk, I still suck, I just need to get better. I need to make moves... but I don't wanna be a scumbag."

That's where I'm stuck, I have this odd catch-22 where I don't wanna be a douche but I feel like I need to be a douche to get anywhere with women. I'm supposed to "go for it" without asking? What?

If by "go for it", you mean flirting, then yeah. Go for it. People will generally be pretty accommodating. Social situations aren't like the tumblr minefield where you watch what you say lest you accidentally say something ____ist. Just act in good faith, don't say anything really offensive on purpose, respect their boundaries, and flirt with (even hit on) people you like. At parties and bars/clubs/etc, that sort of behavior is expected. Just don't get pushy, or follow them around if they walk away, and you'll be fine.

[Guest]

Then my question turns to "How am I supposed to know?" Especially when I have no idea how to flirt or even what it means to hit on girls. I really don't know, how to do either or know what that means. I just talk and ask questions in a goofy/exaggerated way or tone of voice sometimes to let them know "Hey I'm not actually serious lol".

For example yesterday, I was hanging out with a coworker and I went to get noodles with her. She said she wanted a to-go bowl and I mentioned "You may need to go up and ask". Well this girl is a totally awkward nerd too and didn't wanna go up and ask. So I gave a hard time about it in a goofy voice and I said "Ohhh my, you're such a neeerd" while very lightly poking her arm and she was laughing about it so I could tell she took it warmly. And In case you're wondering, I got the bowl for her, also if you're wondering further, this coworker has a boyfriend already so this was a mutual chillin' between tech homies.

Would that be considered flirty? I dunno, I tend to ask myself some of these questions because this is just me being silly and having a good time with girls I know. I have a faint idea of this *possibly* being flirty behavior but I don't really know.

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