I went on a date and things got worse from there (Glides' "I'm a fucking idiot" rant)

[Guest]

I'm going to get the answer I expected to get, but I might as well say it because it's driving me insane.

A good thing and a bad thing happened.

Good thing: I went on a date. A real live one. A full on "do you want to go out with me?" and she said "yes" kind of date.

And the good part was entirely that, and how a girl had never said yes to me before and I'd expected a rejection so hard that I was actually really surprised when she said yes. And I spent the entire damn time wondering when Ashton Kutcher was going to pop out of nowhere.

He didn't, he was too busy crying over being in "Two and a Half Men."

Of course, the old adage of "too good to be true" kicked me sharply in the ass after the date (no kiss, no nothing, *sigh*). I have officially entered manhood just as virgin as before. I had really hoped I'd leave being a child with that disgusting cherry behind, but lo and behold, since God hates me, it was not to be.

Bad thing: the girl tried to get really manipulative, fast. And since I have far more self-respect than I ever have, I didn't fall for it. And this only pissed her off more, and she seems more interested in trying to make me jealous than actually do anything with me. And I increasingly suspect that she's the type of girl who likes male attention, and only went out with me because I paid attention to her. Considering nothing happened between us (a chaste hug, once, is as far as we ever got. I never had an opportunity to see how much farther I could go), it's a big fat red flag that she just wanted free Mexican food from the least offensive person she knew.

So that hurts. Quite a bit. I've tried all this goddamn time not to let it hurt, but it killed off all of the self-confidence I'd gotten from having her say yes. Then again, she did say "yeah sure," which is not a good sign.

And honestly, I thought I didn't need the forum anymore, I assumed that by now, thanks to some good acting and copious amounts of booze (for me specifically), I wouldn't be a virgin anymore and I'd be well on my way to pretending I'd popped the cherry when I was 14.

Instead, I've more or less been emotionally stabbed in the back, while pretending that such emotional stabbing didn't affect me at all, and that I don't give a shit. But I do, I really do, and she's only gotten more flirty the worse I've been treating her. She's strange.

I dunno, for a brief sweet moment, I thought I'd finally beaten my greatest enemy. That I was secretly attractive after all, that it was all in my head. It was like giving a convict starving to death an apple, and then burying him alive.

And this girl was legit cute, seriously. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of my league, man. I should've known better to ask, I should've known my goddamn place. She was far too cute for me, and I'm suffering for reaching above my means, or even pretending that I could. It's like a hobo thinking he can make it in Wall Street (Trading Places is fiction, you assholes).

Two steps forward, three steps back. That's the metaphor of the day.

In the future, if a girl who's way too cute for me ever shows interest, she's clearly about to manipulate me. This is the lesson I've learned. She's about to fleece me. This is historically the only reason why attractive women have ever talked to me, when they want something. She wanted free food, I gave her ass free food, like a fucking chump.

Even worse, I'm apparently cover for her to avoid some creepy ex or something. I'm literally an inoffensive mock boyfriend now.

And then people wonder why I don't ever make a move. Fucking idiots. Fuck.

[eselle28]

Hey, Glides, I'm really sorry you had a lousy date. I can sympathize and empathize - I've been on many, many lousy dates, and sometimes going on a really bad one feels worse than being single.

What happened on the date to make you feel manipulated? I completely believe you were, but sometimes talking about specific actions makes it easier to understand how to avoid people who behave like that in the future.

[Guest]

I paid for her food.

We didn't kiss or anything.

We went out for coffee afterwards and she started blatantly flirting with guys while deliberately looking at me, so I retorted by flirting with some random chick I knew.

She would continually boast within ear shot of me a couple weeks later about all the sexy guys she'd apparently boned and how big their dicks were.

Randomly telling me to fuck off and then acting nice later.

Getting mad when I began ignoring her as a result of this.

Getting even madder when I started blatantly flirting with a coworker in front of her to rile her up even more.

I'm manipulating her too, but she started it, nyeh.

So the piece de resistance of manipulation to really fucking ruin her month (if she even cares), going on a date with another girl the day we were supposed to go on her second date, at the exact same time, with the ex-girlfriend of the guy she started cuddling with in full sight of me.

So yes, I'm the asshole OTG said I was, let me hear it.

[eselle28]

Just to be clear, Glides, I never said you were an asshole. I was just curious about what happened.

I will say that it isn't all that atypical for a first date to end without a kiss or for the man to end up paying for the woman's food (the second one is an unfair and stupid social norm, but some people who follow it aren't intentionally being shitty).

So, it sounds like you have another date scheduled with a different woman - am I reading what you wrote right?

[Enail]

It sounds like she wanted your attention specifically and to feel like you wanted her - manipulative and obnoxious, and I definitely don't recommend going out with her ever again, but also likely to be a sign that she thought you were worth trying to impress and get the attention of (however stupid her way of doing it). That plus the fact that you've got another date already is a pretty good sign that you are considered desirable by at least some people.

[nearly_takuan]

Dude. This nonzero number of dates thing is huge. I agree with the others that there are still some positive/affirming things you can learn from the experience, even though a lot of it was also really shitty. (It also sounds to me like you've exercised good judgment in putting a stop to things early. So, you know, good job not falling into the trap of staying in something toxic out of self-disdain and so forth.)

[reboot]

Congrats, Glides you went on a very typical first date. Most first dates have this kind of incompatibility come up, which is why people end up having a lot of first dates and fewer second ones.

[StrangePanda]

I agree that this girl was acting strangely and that you did the right thing by stopping it.

But I don't understand why do you think that if a girl likes you, she must kiss you (or go further) on the first date? For me, it has more to do  with boundaries and not with attraction. Some people will not be comfortable to kiss on the first date even if they like one another.

Also, paying for her food does not mean she must provide you kisses or more. It's a very damaging thing to suppose that if "I pay for dinner, you have to get physical with me". I understand you had expectations but no one is obligated to get physical under any circumstances if they don't want to and there is also the possibility that a person agreed to go on the date because they were attracted to you but changed their mind during the date. It's not manipulative. If you're afraid someone may go out with you just because they want free food then don't offer to pay for them.

*I don't know if this applies to this specific date (I don't know if the girl was really there just for the food or not) so it's more general case.
** You are not an asshole, okay?

[Guest]

I paid for her food.

We didn't kiss or anything.

No big deal. When I had gone on a date last year I went for it and gave the girl a peck on the forehead, nothing too crazy just to be sure neither her or I were uncomfortable with it. But turns out the girl wasn't into it at all, granted she has an anxiety disorder. -shrug-

We went out for coffee afterwards and she started blatantly flirting with guys while deliberately looking at me, so I retorted by flirting with some random chick I knew.

She would continually boast within ear shot of me a couple weeks later about all the sexy guys she'd apparently boned and how big their dicks were.

Randomly telling me to fuck off and then acting nice later.

Getting mad when I began ignoring her as a result of this.

Getting even madder when I started blatantly flirting with a coworker in front of her to rile her up even more.

That's all pretty fucked up.

I'm manipulating her too, but she started it, nyeh.

So the piece de resistance of manipulation to really fucking ruin her month (if she even cares), going on a date with another girl the day we were supposed to go on her second date, at the exact same time, with the ex-girlfriend of the guy she started cuddling with in full sight of me.

So yes, I'm the asshole OTG said I was, let me hear it.

I believe you're better than that. There is no need to stoop to her level and manipulate her back, you're better than that. I say you go on that date with that other girl, but don't do it out of spite unless you actually do like this new girl. If getting a rise outta the manipulative girl is just a bonus, please keep it that way. I wouldn't want you to break another person's heart for the sole purpose of getting even with someone.

Just keep your head on straight and keep that moral compass pointing on the right path.

[ReploidArmada]

Dude, you're making tangible progress over where you were this time last year. I do believe you have a tendency to significantly over-react, but you also have a very solid sense of what things are good for you or not, hence why you dropped that manipulative bitch after a single date.

Please, if only for your own sake, do not take this revenge against Mega-Bitch any farther than absolutely necessary. Those who embark on a journey of revenge first dig two graves, after all. However, please do remember what you were feeling last summer. I remember how you felt like you had to "Settle, Beg, or Die," and now - a few months later - you're making tangible progress towards beginning a relationship.

You're on the right path, and you're doing well, but please reconsider your efforts to get back at Woman #1. There's a chance it may not end well for either of you.

PS. I haven't had a chance to exercise this, but my intention for any first date I end up going on is to first ask the lady I'm with if she's comfortable before doing anything remotely physical. Perhaps you could consider doing something similar? After all, a first date is more of a time for inter-personal discovery, not a promissory note for kisses or sex.

[gaboz]

In the future, if a girl who's way too cute for me ever shows interest, she's clearly about to manipulate me. This is the lesson I've learned. She's about to fleece me. This is historically the only reason why attractive women have ever talked to me, when they want something. She wanted free food, I gave her ass free food, like a fucking chump.

Bullshit.

I had a similar date couple of weeks ago. Left her just there with the bill(wasn't much). Nuked everything about her and its was just a lesson learned.

So expect nothing and let yourself be surprised.

Thing is that somewhere, you are a confident man, and confidence sometimes borders on "asshole". You have skills in which unlocks when the self-esteem button is pressed and you are at least interesting enough to be the man to make other men jealous.

[Guest]

I agree that this girl was acting strangely and that you did the right thing by stopping it.

But I don't understand why do you think that if a girl likes you, she must kiss you (or go further) on the first date? For me, it has more to do  with boundaries and not with attraction. Some people will not be comfortable to kiss on the first date even if they like one another.

Also, paying for her food does not mean she must provide you kisses or more. It's a very damaging thing to suppose that if "I pay for dinner, you have to get physical with me". I understand you had expectations but no one is obligated to get physical under any circumstances if they don't want to and there is also the possibility that a person agreed to go on the date because they were attracted to you but changed their mind during the date. It's not manipulative. If you're afraid someone may go out with you just because they want free food then don't offer to pay for them.

*I don't know if this applies to this specific date (I don't know if the girl was really there just for the food or not) so it's more general case.
** You are not an asshole, okay?

I'm not saying that I was owed anything, hell no. But I was really pissed off that I wasn't attractive enough to be kissed. Why go on the date if you didn't want to do anything? What did I do to change her mind if she apparently wanted to earlier? Why go on a date at all if you don't want to get physical with me?

Trust me, I didn't even try anything, I didn't touch her at all, aside from the hug, and even that was the same way I'd hug my mother. So nothing happened, and I wasn't about to pull shit if she didn't want me to.

Thus why it's pretty obvious that she was bored and wanted food and knew that I was enough of a sucker to pay for her. Maybe she detected my virginity magically, who knows?

All in all, the entire thing was a massive failure, and pretty much the ultimate nail on the coffin that is My Chances Of Getting Laid. I'm way too afraid of failure to try this again.

TL;DR: If she really did like me, she would've wanted to get physical. She didn't, so she doesn't. The end.

And to all of the people telling me not to manipulate her using some other chick: I am attracted to the other girl. Not technically a date, she's also way too attractive for that (it's nothing to brag about when they don't want you). But it's symbolic revenge and it will make me feel better, and I'm still going to do it. But nothing is happening with me or the other chick, trust me on that one.

I'm starting to suspect that everyone is lying when they say love is magical. Fuck those people, I hate their privilege.

[gaboz]

And to all of the people telling me not to manipulate her using some other chick: I am attracted to the other girl. Not technically a date, she's also way too attractive for that (it's nothing to brag about when they don't want you). But it's symbolic revenge and it will make me feel better, and I'm still going to do it. But nothing is happening with me or the other chick, trust me on that one.

There are no leagues, and is she in on it what you want to do?

All in all, the entire thing was a massive failure, and pretty much the ultimate nail on the coffin that is My Chances Of Getting Laid. I'm way too afraid of failure to try this again.

yeezus. see my signature

[reboundstudent]

I'm not saying that I was owed anything, hell no. But I was really pissed off that I wasn't attractive enough to be kissed. Why go on the date if you didn't want to do anything? What did I do to change her mind if she apparently wanted to earlier? Why go on a date at all if you don't want to get physical with me?

I could be on a date with Daniel Radcliff himself and I probably wouldn't kiss him on a first date. About 85% of the time, I don't kiss or do anything on the first date, even when I find the guy extremely attractive. I go on a date because I want to get physical eventually; but on the first date? Big nope. In fact, it's a very big red flag for me when a guy wants to be physical immediately on the first date. It suggests to me that he isn't interested in me as a person, but just wants sex/a female body.

Sorry G, but the impression I'm getting from this date is that you weren't that interested in her except as a means to an end (kissing, losing your virginity, etc.) Most girls can smell that kind of thing from miles away. If I'd have to wager a guess, it'd be that she was flattered because hey, a guy wants sex from her, but also kind of insulted because hey, a guy wants only sex from her, so she's bouncing back and forth between being pissed off and rude out of spite (hurt that you didn't like her as a person) and being nice (because you at least liked her physically and maybe she can get you to want more.) Total conjecture on my part, but sticking myself in this girl's shoes, that's the only sense I can get from it.

[Enail]

RBS makes a good point - your feelings about her and about what you wanted out of the date were mixed even though you liked her and thought she was hot, isn't it possible that her feelings were mixed too and that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your qualities or desireability?

[eselle28]

Glides, I think that your jerkbrain might be getting in the way here. This woman agreed to go on a date with you. That isn't the same as agreeing to kiss you or have sex with you or go out with you another time. It's just agreeing to a date where the two of you can get to know each other better.

I do kiss on the first date, but not always - and some of the first dates where there's been no kiss have been with men I was incredibly attracted to. Sometimes the rapport just isn't there after one meal and it feels odd, but will be after some more time together. Sometimes our date is in a very public location and there isn't an opportunity for kissing to feel natural. Sometimes the man doesn't kiss me and I can't quite get up the nerve to kiss him, either. It sounds like you didn't attempt to kiss her, so it's hard to know if she had any interest in kissing you. It does sound like she was sending mixed signals, but that happens sometimes. It can mean mixed feelings, or it can mean that a woman is herself a little awkward.

I'd encourage you to try to push back against your jerkbrain a bit and consider whether it might be judging both you and other people around you too harshly.

[reboot]

Glides, I think that your jerkbrain might be getting in the way here. This woman agreed to go on a date with you. That isn't the same as agreeing to kiss you or have sex with you or go out with you another time. It's just agreeing to a date where the two of you can get to know each other better.

I do kiss on the first date, but not always - and some of the first dates where there's been no kiss have been with men I was incredibly attracted to. Sometimes the rapport just isn't there after one meal and it feels odd, but will be after some more time together. Sometimes our date is in a very public location and there isn't an opportunity for kissing to feel natural. Sometimes the man doesn't kiss me and I can't quite get up the nerve to kiss him, either. It sounds like you didn't attempt to kiss her, so it's hard to know if she had any interest in kissing you. It does sound like she was sending mixed signals, but that happens sometimes. It can mean mixed feelings, or it can mean that a woman is herself a little awkward.

I'd encourage you to try to push back against your jerkbrain a bit and consider whether it might be judging both you and other people around you too harshly.

^Seconded.

Also, sometimes it has nothing to do with the date at all. You could realize your breath is kind of funky and not have a mint. You could be coming into/out of a cold an might be contagious. You could be someone who just does not like kissing and it would never occur to them to initiate.

Etc.

[Guest]

Glides, I think that your jerkbrain might be getting in the way here. This woman agreed to go on a date with you. That isn't the same as agreeing to kiss you or have sex with you or go out with you another time. It's just agreeing to a date where the two of you can get to know each other better.

I do kiss on the first date, but not always - and some of the first dates where there's been no kiss have been with men I was incredibly attracted to. Sometimes the rapport just isn't there after one meal and it feels odd, but will be after some more time together. Sometimes our date is in a very public location and there isn't an opportunity for kissing to feel natural. Sometimes the man doesn't kiss me and I can't quite get up the nerve to kiss him, either. It sounds like you didn't attempt to kiss her, so it's hard to know if she had any interest in kissing you. It does sound like she was sending mixed signals, but that happens sometimes. It can mean mixed feelings, or it can mean that a woman is herself a little awkward.

I'd encourage you to try to push back against your jerkbrain a bit and consider whether it might be judging both you and other people around you too harshly.

Kind of a slight update on this whole scenario: she accidentally confessed to a friend of mine that she was only going out with me for free food and as a "surrogate boyfriend" to keep some creepy ex away from her, and had no real interest in me whatsoever.

So I was used all along, which came as no surprise. And we've spent the last week trying to psych the other out. I'm pretty sure I won, my last words to her after she tried listing some ideas for improving service were "You have such big ideas for that tiny little brain of yours."

Nope, not even remotely mature or respectful, but that was a response to a week's worth of her bragging about all the other men she's been sleeping with, and how sexy they are compared to me. Not mature, but she deserves it. She insults my manhood, I insult her tiny stature. I do not forgive easily.

So feel free to call me an asshole (I am one, we've proven this), but I'm in no real capacity to care about her feelings, especially when she was using me. I'm pretty fucking furious.

[Enail]

Sorry to hear that, Glides. That sucks.

[Guest]

Kind of a slight update on this whole scenario: she accidentally confessed to a friend of mine that she was only going out with me for free food and as a "surrogate boyfriend" to keep some creepy ex away from her, and had no real interest in me whatsoever.

So I was used all along, which came as no surprise. And we've spent the last week trying to psych the other out. I'm pretty sure I won, my last words to her after she tried listing some ideas for improving service were "You have such big ideas for that tiny little brain of yours."

Nope, not even remotely mature or respectful, but that was a response to a week's worth of her bragging about all the other men she's been sleeping with, and how sexy they are compared to me. Not mature, but she deserves it. She insults my manhood, I insult her tiny stature. I do not forgive easily.

So feel free to call me an asshole (I am one, we've proven this), but I'm in no real capacity to care about her feelings, especially when she was using me. I'm pretty fucking furious.

Holy shit. This person doesn't sound terribly pleasant person in light of having the the brass to go out that far out of her way just to ward off an ex. :\

What I don't understand exactly is, *why* she was bragging about sleeping with other dudes to you? What does she gain other than an ego boost from riling you up? If she gets an ego-boost/tingly from getting a rise outta you, I don't think she's that nice of a person to begin with it sounds. Again, you're better than stooping to her level because, what does this sort of behavior say about her maturity level?

What's done is done, this girl sounds like a not-very-nice person.

[Izmuth]

Call me a cynic, but one does not simply "accidentally" confess to a friend of someone that you're only using that someone after weeks of continued passive aggressive taunt war. She wanted to hurt you where it counts, and apparently succeeds.

What I don't understand exactly is, *why* she was bragging about sleeping with other dudes to you? What does she gain other than an ego boost from riling you up?

What does Glides gain from this taunt war? We want to hurt people who hurt our ego. It's a human thing.
Time for the cold hard truth Glides: Keep this up at your end and you're going to get into trouble.

HR isn't going to be convinced by "she started it!", they're going to cut the knot and get rid of two problem elements to make sure the problem is gone.

The only winning move is not to play. I know that's ridiculously hard, but believe me, every time I wanted payback against my better judgement I was made to pay for it.

[reboot]

Sounds like she was a real piece of work and should be avoided at all costs. Some scripts if people you know ask about her:

Yeah, we went out once.
We went on one date but did not hit it off.
I went to dinner once. Honestly, I do not remember much about it.

If people tell you about what she said after the date:

Huh? Really? Good thing I did not ask her on a second date [change subject]
Wow! What a weird thing to do [change subject]
Huh. People are weird [change subject]

If people push, that means they are trying to get you to talk shit about her so they can tell her what you said. Process with caution:

Eh, it was one date. There is nothing to talk about. Can we change the subject?
I have nothing else to say. I am changing the subject.
Whatever. It was a not so great date and a boring topic of conversation, let's talk about something else.

[Guest]

What does Glides gain from this taunt war? We want to hurt people who hurt our ego. It's a human thing.
Time for the cold hard truth Glides: Keep this up at your end and you're going to get into trouble.

HR isn't going to be convinced by "she started it!", they're going to cut the knot and get rid of two problem elements to make sure the problem is gone.

The only winning move is not to play. I know that's ridiculously hard, but believe me, every time I wanted payback against my better judgement I was made to pay for it.

Erm, to be clear, I asked what does the girl gain from taunting Glides. I understand why Glides would respond, I totally get it; but what I don't get what is, why is this woman going of out of her way to get a rise from Glides. I mean, really, there is no reason... :\

Otherwise, I agree with you. Cut the shit before Glides gets busted for something silly and/or petty.

[Izmuth]

I don't English very well today, my apologies

What I meant was that if you recognize what Glides has to gain from continuing this taunt war, you also recognize what the girl gains from continuing it.

Person A attacks, person B counterattacks, person A countercounterattacks, and so on and so on. They both feel completely justified, because the other party just won't stop.

...

BTW, I'm not sure how to put this delicately Glides, but considering your abysmal self esteem, have you considered that your jerk brain might have interpreted her normal behavior as "blatant flirting"?
Which would mean you actually started this feud?

Not saying it wasn't blatant flirting, since I obviously wasn't present, but boy do I have a lot of experience with flirting/friendly intent misinterpretation.

[Guest]

I don't English very well today, my apologies

What I meant was that if you recognize what Glides has to gain from continuing this taunt war, you also recognize what the girl gains from continuing it.

Person A attacks, person B counterattacks, person A countercounterattacks, and so on and so on. They both feel completely justified, because the other party just won't stop.

That's okie. ;D I get why Person B would want to fire-back after the initial insults. Perfectly logical to want to defend yourself.

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