Re: Generational stereotypes and gripes

[Herr R]

I'm sorry if I can't quote properly, since I'm on my phone. But as to the question about why I get pissy about stuff like this is because as a writer, I feel like I can't express myself if I have to censor myself out of fear that some oversensitive soul would take offense over what I have to say. As a skeptic, I fear that I must watch my thoughts and words because apparently trying to provoke thoughts contrary to ones notions is now a crime, as you may actually cause someone to feel uncomfortable by putting forth ideas they disagree with or find distasteful.

[eselle28]

As a writer, you probably will offend some people and make others feel uncomfortable. However, it's not a crime (at least not in the United States) to express ideas people disagree with or find distasteful, and I find that using that sort of amplified rhetoric tends to make the conversations about these subjects unnecessarily extreme. What actually tends to happen is that people who are offended by your words will criticize you, or tell you they won't read your writing anymore and why, or perhaps ask you not to write those things anymore. That's their speech, and they have as much right to it as you do to yours, even if you disagree with their criticisms or requests or find them distasteful.

[reboot]

MOD
Herr R, can I ask you to kindly refrain from judging the validity of how people define their own experiences. I also ask that you refrain from armchair PTSD diagnoses and pronouncements. It is not within your sphere of expertise (or anyone else's) to give or rebutt an internet stranger's mental or physical health diagnoses. This is a thread to discuss intergenerational stereotypes and gripes. Please keep it on topic
/MOD

[PintsizeBro]

I didn't read the article. I don't need to. It's the same shit spun out again. Every generation says the generation before them is a bunch of out-of-touch dinosaurs, and the generation after them is a bunch of spoiled, lazy wimps.

In 20 years the Millennials will be saying the same things about the next generation.

Trigger warnings are just a new name for an old concept: the "viewer discretion is advised" warning at the beginning of violent TV shows has been around for a while now. A small, vocal group of people have gotten out of hand with how prevalent they want these warnings to be.

[Gentleman Johnny]

Honestly, every Millenial that I know personally gives me more hope for the future. The Boomers had their hippie moment then settled down. Gen X was all jaded and ironic before they (we) could ever get involved in changing things. Millenials are jaded enough to know where the system is failing and optimistic/crazy/determined enough to say "you guys fucked up. Now get out of the way while we fix this".

[PintsizeBro]

GJ that's the most optimistic thing I've heard in a while. Thanks for that.

[reboot]

Honestly, every Millenial that I know personally gives me more hope for the future. The Boomers had their hippie moment then settled down. Gen X was all jaded and ironic before they (we) could ever get involved in changing things. Millenials are jaded enough to know where the system is failing and optimistic/crazy/determined enough to say "you guys fucked up. Now get out of the way while we fix this".

I have to agree. I work with a lot of Millennials and they have a great balance of realism and idealism. My (and GJ's) generation was basically always being compared to the Boomers and told we could not measure up to their activism and accomplishments, so we did not try or tried small. Millennials, though, have what it takes to do some real good and with technology they can get global movements going that are pretty amazing.

[Herr R]

Fine. On keeping with the topic, I must also disagree with GJ on his assertation that Millenials are actually doing something worthwhile. If most of them didn't have such huge egos, then maybe the Occupy movement would of have gone somewhere.

[Gentleman Johnny]

Seriously, I'm playing catch up with them at this point. I'm borrowing ideas from organizers who were college freshmen in 2004. The people who rediscovered grass roots organizing and made it viable again with Internet age tech? Millenials. This is the tech whose malfunction on the Republican side arguably won Obama his reelection. The war in Silicon Valley of libertarian tech outrunning the law and the people who fight it - effectively all millenials. San Fran is ground zero for the battle between two city-states: hippie liberal Oakland in the north and business casual, money talks Silicon Valley to the south. That's the new political landscape. The current platforms of both parties on a federal level are already worthlessly outdated because the social issues among the younger generation are basically fait accompli.

Edit: and I'll add that the Occupy movement did more than my generation's WTO protests but that's almost beside the point. Maybe this is a millenial thing, too but you don't count the number of failures, only the number of successes. I don't care if 98 of my actions fail. If 2 of my 100 succeed and 1 of your 1 does, I've still accomplished more. The millenials working the Obama campaign were working the 2004, too. They learned and kept going.

[reboot]

Fine. On keeping with the topic, I must also disagree with GJ on his assertation that Millenials are actually doing something worthwhile. If most of them didn't have such huge egos, then maybe the Occupy movement would of have gone somewhere.

Do you feel the Millennials did worse with Occupy than we Gen X folks did with the WTO protests in Seattle or the other 1990s anti globalization protests?

[Guest]

Honestly, every Millenial that I know personally gives me more hope for the future. The Boomers had their hippie moment then settled down. Gen X was all jaded and ironic before they (we) could ever get involved in changing things. Millenials are jaded enough to know where the system is failing and optimistic/crazy/determined enough to say "you guys fucked up. Now get out of the way while we fix this".

That's pretty much it right there. At least Millennials, I think that the age of technology and information, the more tech savvy kids are far more informed. Which kinda leads to us learning about past failures and us assuring ourselves, "Let's NOT do that again."

Fine. On keeping with the topic, I must also disagree with GJ on his assertation that Millenials are actually doing something worthwhile. If most of them didn't have such huge egos, then maybe the Occupy movement would of have gone somewhere.

Both the Occupy movement Tea Party movement could have done more... had they actually been informed of what they were trying to change. That was the downfall of both of those attempts at social change. As for huge egos? You need that to get shit done, nobody's gonna follow your lead without SOME sort of confidence/ego either.

[Enail]

One of the things that really annoys me about these "complain about the Millennials" articles is that usually at least half the things they're complaining about are things that are traits common to pretty much everyone in the current era; there's no reason to pin them solely on the newest generation of adults. Some of the worst 'glued to their phones' people I've ever met are Baby Boomers, for example.

Also, those kids should get off my lawn.

[fakely mctest]

So, the two quotes I always keep in mind when reading any inane "think piece" about generational strife are these:

"The Golden Age never was the present Age." -- Poor Richard's Almanack by Ben Franklin (who basically wrote it as a cash-grab bestseller in 1740)

"...when the young are to be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what garments or shoes are to be worn; the mode of dressing the hair; deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me?" -- Plato's Republic, Book IV

One of the things that really annoys me about these "complain about the Millennials" articles is that usually at least half the things they're complaining about are things that are traits common to pretty much everyone in the current era; there's no reason to pin them solely on the newest generation of adults. Some of the worst 'glued to their phones' people I've ever met are Baby Boomers, for example.

Also, those kids should get off my lawn.

Also the thing is: if the Millennial generation feels so entitled, the place where whatever "blame" people want to dole out about it would be...not on the Millennials? That would be most likely a Boomer parenting thing but very likely the whole thing is crap anyhow and a cheap way to drum up easy controversy.

[PintsizeBro]

Also the thing is: if the Millennial generation feels so entitled, the place where whatever "blame" people want to dole out about it would be...not on the Millennials?  That would be most likely a Boomer parenting thing but very likely the whole thing is crap anyhow and a cheap way to drum up easy controversy.

The one thing I remember really internalizing as a kid was that winning was everything. That losing was something to be ashamed of and avoided at all costs. People who bitch about "trophies for everyone" miss the point. Those trophies aren't there to make the losers feel better about losing. Nothing can do that, it's too ingrained that losing is the worst thing ever. No, those trophies there to make sure the losers participate, so that the winners will have someone to beat.

When I was in junior high, my school held a race with prizes for the top 3 finishers. There were only 4 participants in the race. Everybody knew who the fastest kids in school were, so the rest of us decided there was no point in trying because we weren't going to win. The kid who lost the race felt bad, no surprise there. But the kid who won was embarrassed, because winning doesn't feel as good when you only beat a couple of people rather than the whole school.

Now as an adult, I've tried to let go of that. I don't think losing is a big deal anymore. The nature of competition means that someone is always going to lose. It's just how the game works. But nothing could have made me or my classmates hear that when we were kids. We'd already absorbed our parents' obsession with winning.

[Herr R]

Fine. On keeping with the topic, I must also disagree with GJ on his assertation that Millenials are actually doing something worthwhile. If most of them didn't have such huge egos, then maybe the Occupy movement would of have gone somewhere.

Do you feel the Millennials did worse with Occupy than we Gen X folks did with the WTO protests in Seattle or the other 1990s anti globalization protests?

Quite frankly, I would of have respected either movement if it resulted in an armed uprising. While we were giving Wall Street bailouts and wondering whether to send Bernie Madoff to jail, in China, they sentenced a bunch of corrupt bankers to the firing squad.

As for huge egos? You need that to get shit done, nobody's gonna follow your lead without SOME sort of confidence/ego either.

That would of have been fine and dandy, if only the people who started to identify themselves as Occupy's leaders weren't in it for the 15 Minutes of Fame.

GJ talked about how we should concentrate on the few victories of Occupy, rather than the major failures. Yet, nothing has changed.

[Enail]

<mod>Folks, let's keep on the topic please and not get into a broader discussion of the Occupy movement. (ETA: in this thread, I mean. If you want to start a new thread for it, that's fine of course)

Also, Herr R, please re-read the Forum Guidelines, Attacks and Other Unacceptable Topics #1, and watch yourself on that one, since you're skirting rather close to wishing violence on people - there's room on this forum to discuss capital punishment and suchlike, but offhand, potentially controversial mentions in unrelated topics like that are not the best way to do that. Thanks. </mod>

[kath]

In high school, I had a mild obsession with GenX lit (Mostly Palaniuk and Coupland) and I wrote an English paper about parrelels between Fight Club and The Waste Land (Lost Generation). It was like, the most fun high school lit paper I had ever done. (Also, go read some Douglas Coupland! Because it's wicked!)

The thing that I think is cool about discussions of generational differences is when it's not about the individual people. A lot of times the discussions are about trying to cast what are really social/cultural changes stemming from the passage of time and the changing that human society does, which reasonably is more obvious in people who are younger, and that is super interesting. But talking about the "qualities" of each generation as their personal traits that are theirs is ridiculous and frustrating, because if you're decrying how "X" another generation is, it clearly can't be just down to an individual's traits.

But also yes, it's mostly people whining about kids these days and reinforcing the status quo. Which, eh, young kids seeming all new and different are scary, sure, and remind some boomers that they aren't those people anymore (and, being SO LARGE, boomers had a comparatively large amount of social force).

The "kids these days" never read thing makes me CRAZY. Did you ever go read the encyclopedia for fun? Oh not normally? Now losing track of time reading the encyclopedia for hours is a social phenomenon among people of all ages.

[reboot]

I get a kick out of younger people and how they address the issues my generation addressed (because, face it, all generations address similar issues). Sometimes I envy the younger generation the cool things they have (e.g. connectivity, more openness to different lifestyles, actually addressing bullying/consent/sexuality) and sometimes I am thankful I did not have to deal with what they have to (e.g. economy, greater inequality). I even love hipsters, because twee silliness aside, because of them I can get amazing hand crafted things, backyard eggs, good craft beer, great bourbon, fantastic cheese, bike lanes in my city, etc.. They are goofy but they bring cool shit to a neighborhood.

I admit that I am really negative about boomers, though. Part of that comes from having silent generation parents (1938, 1943) and picking up their attitudes to boomers and part is that boomers were so fucking judgmental about my generation and how we were failures.

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