Re: How best to meet girls for casual relationships?

[eselle28]

Well, that's why I didn't mention engagement and marriage. But, there are a lot of couples who live together in my age or those only a few years older than me, who do bring their BF/GF home with them over the holidays, who do enmesh with one another. Maybe, though, this doesn't happen nearly as much as I think it does, and it's only that the committed couples are more visible?

I think those couples are more visible, both because it's easier to be seen doing something than not doing it and because they might be standing out more to you. I mean, are these friends of yours who you're meeting at parties mostly dating in that way?

In any case, there are lots of people who've avoided one or both of those things. I've lived with several partners, but my parents have only met two of the many, many men I've been involved with. One of those meetings only happened a couple weeks ago and the other was to the guy I ended up marrying. There were stretches of many, many years where family and dudes were completely separate things. I have several friends who have never lived with a partner and who either never want to prior to marriage or never want to period. It's something you need to lay out there honestly, but it's not a strict requirement.

That's not to say this is a great option for you right now generally, but these things don't have to go together.

Hrm, well they could get the rest of their emotional needs met by friends, family, and therapists. I just don't think I could emotionally be capable of giving the level of support that is expected in a committed relationship at this point in my life. I used to think I wanted that deep emotional support, but then realized that I don't think I could reciprocate and maintain my own mental health right now.

ETA: And, as eselle point out, I have said that I recognize my ideal desires are confused, implausible-to-impossible to meet, and so on.

I think you're probably right about committed relationships, at least at this point in your life. Where I'd suggest you might want to do some thinking about what you want versus what you need versus what you can give to others is providing space for your partner to nurture those relationships (particularly since you don't want to become emeshed in them yourself and the woman will need to see those people while not seeing you) and on how your partner might be able to show that you rate on her priority list even if she has other (non-primary) romantic or sexual partners. Actually, that last part's probably a good thing to think about, period. If you're eschewing a lot of the traditional markers romantic partners use to show they're important to each other, it's generally necessary to find other things to focus on. Just as she may need to show you affection in some way to help you cope with feelings of jealousy about other dates, you might need to occasionally take action to show her you care even though you're not up for talking about permanence or cohabitation.

[Caffeinated]

And here we have an excellent example of how women are not a hive mind. You just have to look for people that see the world in a compatible way.

[reboot]

Wisp, one thing you might want to try is identify women who are graduating soon, on short term study/research assignments at your school, on summer internships from elsewhere, etc. From my experience working with women in those groups, they are in a place where they do not want to meet someone serious because it does not fit with their life goals at this time, but do enjoy dating because it gets lonely being in a place where you have fewer social ties.

[Perlandra]

Whisp, I'm glad you're conscious of the contradictions and unrealistic aspects of your desires. I agree with Reboot and Caffeinated that approaching ladies who are open to something more short-term (foreign exchange student, close to graduation, etc.) and mentioning that you're going off to grad school elsewhere fairly up-front will leave room for a short-term/defined end-point relationship.

I don't really feel like I can give you advice about finding a casual sex/FWB thing per se other than generalities like that. I have several female friends who do casual sex, but 90% of the ones who are in FWB/fuckbuddy relationships want a monogamous commitment, and are hanging on in hopes he'll come to his senses. *sigh* I personally am not into casual sex, though the guy who offered to wear a tuxedo got lots of brownie points, even though I didn't have sex with him.

I guess it just seems odd to me that you refuse to consider a monogamous short-term relationship with someone on the grounds that you might find someone else who wants to have sex with you and who you would want to have sex with, when you're not doing so now that you're single. I suppose it's possible that having sex and/or a FWB would improve your self esteem/confidence/self-image enough to have women falling all over you. It just seems like the most likely scenario in which you can get the experience is to be willing to put some time, effort, emotional connection, and yes, commitment (not necessarily long-term, but for the duration of the relationship, which you can know the endpoint ahead of time). Rejecting an actual woman on the grounds of hypothetical booty just seems a little bit biting your nose off to spite your face.

[reboot]

......

I guess it just seems odd to me that you refuse to consider a monogamous short-term relationship with someone on the grounds that you might find someone else who wants to have sex with you and who you would want to have sex with, when you're not doing so now that you're single.  I suppose it's possible that having sex and/or a FWB would improve your self esteem/confidence/self-image enough to have women falling all over you.  It just seems like the most likely scenario in which you can get the experience is to be willing to put some time, effort, emotional connection, and yes, commitment (not necessarily long-term, but for the duration of the relationship, which you can know the endpoint ahead of time).   Rejecting an actual woman on the grounds of hypothetical booty just seems a little bit biting your nose off to spite your face.

I was also wondering the same thing. If you are both on the same page that it is casual, short term, but monogamous, you can always end it if you meet someone else. Short term can be as long or short as you like.

I have a lot of friends whose personalities, careers and lifestyles incline them to casual, short term relationships, but in those short term times they are together, prefer monogamy. This preference is partially for disease risk and partially because they only have so much time in their location and want to make the most of it with the person they met.

[Robjection]

......

I guess it just seems odd to me that you refuse to consider a monogamous short-term relationship with someone on the grounds that you might find someone else who wants to have sex with you and who you would want to have sex with, when you're not doing so now that you're single.  I suppose it's possible that having sex and/or a FWB would improve your self esteem/confidence/self-image enough to have women falling all over you.  It just seems like the most likely scenario in which you can get the experience is to be willing to put some time, effort, emotional connection, and yes, commitment (not necessarily long-term, but for the duration of the relationship, which you can know the endpoint ahead of time).   Rejecting an actual woman on the grounds of hypothetical booty just seems a little bit biting your nose off to spite your face.

I was also wondering the same thing. If you are both on the same page that it is casual, short term, but monogamous, you can always end it if you meet someone else. Short term can be as long or short as you like.

To be fair, I think Wisp answered this earlier. Something about not being convinced that he could actually go through with breaking up with someone. I'll check the thread now.

EDIT: So far not found it. Was I imagining this, or getting mixed up with another user?

EDIT2: Never mind, found it.

I don't see why you don't see short term monogamous dating as an option. Ok, you said you do if it's got a for sure end date, but I don't see why that matters. In normal dating, you can date someone for a few months and then break up with them, thus setting your own end date for whenever you want it to be. Are you just worried that once you're dating someone, you'll never be able to actually follow through with a breakup?

Yes. I don't trust myself to do that. My big fear of being in a more serious relationship is that I would, through a combination of having a great deal of chemistry with a hypothetical woman, inertia, scarcity mentality, and gradual change, suddenly wake up at 30 and realize that I married my first girlfriend (and possibly have a house and/or a kid) and in the process made a ton of compromises in my life that make me unhappy--that I've only had sex with one person due to monogamous commitment is one of the bigger ones I fear--and that I wasted away my 20s and that further, now I would be the bad guy if I made my needs known or ended the relationship over them (particularly the nonmonogamous piece). I would be the frog who was slowly boiled one degree at a time, except it would be me signing away my autonomy and my wants and goals one small piece at a time.

Emphasis mine.

[reboot]

Wisp needs to start finding people on very short visits, like three months or less

On the not joking side, Wisp, if you are in a nonmonogamous relationship, your partner can also end up meeting someone they want to be monogamous with before you have met anyone, decide you two have run your course, etc. So nonmonogamy is no solution to scarcity mentality or getting over-attached. These risks are independent of commitment level.

[Perlandra]

Robjection, that's why I agreed with Reboot and Caffeinated that one with a specific endpoint might suit him. He said he wanted a specific endpoint even for a FWB, from what I recall, and that he wouldn't be willing to make an agreement to monogamy even for that short a time frame, but I don't recall him explaining why, except some nebulous "but I might miss out on sex with someone else" framing.

Whisp, I meant to add, that in my original post to you, I hadn't really intended to steer you toward a relationship per se. I just do have some experience with dating men who are inexperienced, and wanted you to be aware of some of the things to be aware of. Like others have said, you both get sex isn't an equal exchange if you have fun, and she's left frustrated, or physically uncomfortable, or feeling like she had to give you Ikea instructions. If you can find people who are willing to be casual about contact that isn't full-blown sex, ie. massage, cuddling, making out, you can develop some skills to be better when you find someone who's interested in sex with you.

I probably phrased the "hypothetical" thing poorly last night, since I was tired (I'd go back and edit, but it was already quoted). What I meant was, if a woman in your classes expresses an interest in you, but does want a monogamous commitment, would you turn her down so that you are free to continue not pursuing other ladies?

[The Wisp]

Robjection, that's why I agreed with Reboot and Caffeinated that one with a specific endpoint might suit him.  He said he wanted a specific endpoint even for a FWB, from what I recall, and that he wouldn't be willing to make an agreement to monogamy even for that short a time frame, but I don't recall him explaining why, except some nebulous "but I might miss out on sex with someone else" framing.

Hrm, maybe I wasn't clear, but I would be okay with monogamy if it was short-term and casual. I could probably deal with an exclusive fuckbuddy/FWB situation. I am not concerned that I'll miss out on sex with somebody else. For one, it would be a miracle to find one sexual partner at all at this point in my life For another, I don't think I would be one to feel super constrained if I missed out on a specific opportunity. I am more hesitant about a relationship that is exclusive, because I fear that I wouldn't leave it, and then wake up at 30 and be one of those people who married their first sexual partner, who is dissatisfied, and who never explored sexually and missed out on my 20s. My fear is constrained in the long-term, not the short-term.

What I meant was, if a woman in your classes expresses an interest in you, but does want a monogamous commitment, would you turn her down so that you are free to continue not pursuing other ladies?

No. Well, it would depend on what she wanted. Assuming that she was casual about it, I wouldn't turn it down.

On the not joking side, Wisp, if you are in a nonmonogamous relationship, your partner can also end up meeting someone they want to be monogamous with before you have met anyone, decide you two have run your course, etc. So nonmonogamy is no solution to scarcity mentality or getting over-attached. These risks are independent of commitment level.

I understand that. The reason I keep bringing up nonmongoamy, I suppose, is that I do eventually (not right now, but some point in the future) want a more committed primary long term partner who is also nonmonogamous with me. But maybe I'm letting that desire, which isn't immediately relevant, cloud what I'm saying I want right now.

[reboot]

I think you might have a case of the ANDs when you might need to be thinking of ORs (sorry working in R today so thinking code).

You are saying you want short term AND nonmonogamous. But maybe short term OR nonmonogamous would also work. For example, you meet someone this summer who is doing an internship and leaves back to her own university in September, would you have to have the relationship be nonmonogamous, since the end date is pretty solidly fixed? For someone local, though, longer term and nonmonogamous might suit you.

[The Wisp]

I must have communicated poorly. I do think I'm okay with short term or nonmonogamous. Maybe earlier I was resistant to that, but I have reconsiders and in my most recent post I intended to say I would be open to monogamous but short term.

[Caffeinated]

Like others have said, you both get sex isn't an equal exchange if you have fun, and she's left frustrated, or physically uncomfortable, or feeling like she had to give you Ikea instructions.  

*dies laughing*

Actually, I have a book recommendation for inexperienced (or experienced but interested in learning ever more) people who want to have sex with women: Girl Sex 101 by Allison Moon and kd diamond. If you want to read up on those Ikea instructions before you find yourself standing there with your hex wrench in your hand, this is a good one.

"Girl Sex 101 is the best sex guide in years." - DIVA Magazine

Girl Sex 101 is a sex-ed book like no other, offering helpful info for ladies and lady-lovers of all genders and identities, playful and informative illustrations on each page, and over 100 distinct voices, plus a hot narrative that shows you how to put the info to good use!

Learn how to navigate the twists and turns of female sexuality, with special guidance from thirteen guest sex educators including Nina Hartley, Sex Nerd Sandra, Jiz Lee, Tristan Taormino, Julia Serano, Reid Mihalko, Kelly Shibari, and more!

Girl Sex 101 will teach you...
*The bits and pieces that make up female sexual anatomy
*Simple ways to communicate in the heat of the moment
*How to build a Road Map of your partner s pleasure
*Essential moves for cunnilingus, strap-ons, hand sex and more!
*Positions to avoid fatigue and generate the power you need to rock your girl's world!

You'll gain confidence to please your girl, no matter what your hands-on experience. Buckle your seat belt and get ready to ride!


Additional contributors include: Claudia Astorino, Tina Horn, Megan Andelloux, Ignacio Rivera, Sophia St. James, Carol Queen, and Ducky Doolittle

Topics include: Safer Sex, STIs, Cunnilingus, Strap-on sex, Trans Women, Intersex, Sex and Disability, Gender Identity, Coming Out, Menopause, Pregnancy, Dyke Drama, Relationship Skills, Flirting, Vibrators and Other Toys, Lesbian Identity, Bisexual and Pansexual Identity, and much more!

http://www.amazon.com/Girl-Sex-101-Allison-Moon/dp/0983830959/

[reboot]

I must have communicated poorly. I do think I'm okay with short term or nonmonogamous. Maybe earlier I was resistant to that, but I have reconsiders and in my most recent post I intended to say I would be open to monogamous but short term.

I think that is going to give you way more options, especially at this age when lots of people are coming and going for school, internships, graduating, etc.

[Perlandra]

Glad I gave you a giggle, Caffeinated! The book you mentioned sounds interesting even as someone of the girly persuasion who isn't interested in pursuing other ladies.

TheWisp, good luck - it still sounds like a scary minefield for any lady who's interested in you to navigate - just the right amount of casual, just the right amount of emotional connection, just the right amount of commitment, desiring you in just the way you want to be wanted, and if she finds she doesn't feel so casual after all, you're going to freak the heck out at her.

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