Re: How to Cold Approach Without Being Creepy/Harassing

[nonA]

I get that there's a good deal of bullying. I also get that there are plenty of events that by themselves wouldn't be all that bad, but between the bullying and the sheer number of individually inoffensive events it starts to wear a person down.

I feel like turning this around. Taking the above to its farthest conclusion, you can easily get the radical attitude of "never interact with a woman you don't already know". What, then, do you feel are good methods of cold approach that don't make the approachee feel unduly put upon?

[UristMcBunny]

Well, this is only my personal experience but here's me.

I have actually experienced a genuine non-harassing compliment from man I didn't know exactly once. I have experienced it a few times from women, but exactly once from a guy.

And what I remember is that it felt different from the very second we made eye contact. His entire body language, demeanour and tone communicated genuine friendliness. It basically went like this:


Scene: I'm walking home from swimming in the sea. Wearing a long dress, shrug, sunglasses and hat, and feeling energetic and smiley and good. Dude is completely alone - no friends around, walking along the same path but in the opposite direction. He looks at me as we approach, and smiles.

Him: "You look very pretty, miss."
Me: "Thank you, that's kind of you."
Him: "Are you seeing anyone at the moment?"
Me: "Yeah, I am." *flashes ring*
Him: "Ah, he's lucky. You have a nice day." *continues on his journey*

As with all things, cold approaching is about paying attention to the situation and to body language. If you'd like to talk bout cold approaches and the like in more detail though, feel free to start a thread specifically on that.

[UristMcBunny]

This has been split from Harssment and Understanding!

[eselle28]

I think there's a few things to consider when cold approaching someone:

Surroundings: Day is better than night. Recreational places like bars, festivals, and cafes are better than functional ones like office waiting rooms. All of those are better than public transportation, which is almost always a bad idea. Streets are a little better, but are generally bad as well.

Actions: Walking up to a woman individually will almost always be perceived more positively than any of yelling at her from some distance, talking to her while leaning out of a car window, walking up to her with a group of other men, or following behind her hoping she'll glance your way.

Words: Don't tell her to do anything. Don't talk about her body in any way. I'd suggest avoiding compliments generally, though sometimes very general ones are appropriate. If it's in a quick passing by situation, something like, "Hey there, I know we haven't met, but I'd be interested in getting to know you. Here's my card!" might work.

Does all this mean that the average shy young man who's attracted to a woman who he sees walking past him on her way to work won't be able to manage a way of approaching her? Maybe, yeah. But I think it leaves enough room for men to make enough other kinds of cold approaches for it to not be an undue burden.

[Gentleman Johnny]

I get that there's a good deal of bullying.  I also get that there are plenty of events that by themselves wouldn't be all that bad, but between the bullying and the sheer number of individually inoffensive events it starts to wear a person down.

I feel like turning this around.  Taking the above to its farthest conclusion, you can easily get the radical attitude of "never interact with a woman you don't already know".  What, then, do you feel are good methods of cold approach that don't make the approachee feel unduly put upon?

So here's a fun consideration, the reason it wears people down is its common enough to be the assumed default. If you want cold approaches to not be something that wear women down, the only thing you can do about it is to approach women who are approachable, provide a good interaction and move along. If more shy guys did this, more women would have better experiences with strangers approaching them on average. That means that you need to be approaching more and learning how to make it a more pleasant experience for everyone FOR THE GREATER GOOD!

As to how to go about that, for me its all about context. Are you at a burlesque show? "Hey, I liked your act. You were great" is appropriate. Is someone at the bar reading The Gunslinger? Generally I'd ay don't interrupt but if you get a chance when they're not reading right that second, say hi, talk about the series and if the conversation doesn't take on a life of its own say something like "I'll let you get back to it then. Have a nice night". As something of a connoisseur of alternative fashion, I've found that asking where someone got those cool boots/Shrine Of Hollywood coat/bone spiked heels etc is often a great one. People who go to an effort to dress up are usually quite happy to discuss their cool finds.

The keys are don't interrupt where you're not wanted and duck out before things can get awkward.

[Dan_Brodribb]

What, then, do you feel are good methods of cold approach that don't make the approachee feel unduly put upon?

I've heard or read questions like this before, and I often feel they trip people up. They want a 'correct' way of approaching or a set of rules to fall back on.

It's understandable, and yet I think this mindset creates more confusion than it solves.

We make the perfect approach and it doesn't work out so we get confused, angry, or feel the person is being unfair: "You're not allowed to be mad/distracted/creeped out. I followed the RULES!"

Or we see someone else do something we're told not to do and it works out for them. And it feels like a betrayal: "But...but...you told me not to DO That. It isn't fair."

There's no getting around it. We have to pay attention to the person we're approaching and we also have to pay attention to the circumstances around our approach. From there, we as approachers, can only do our best and accept the fact that despite our best efforts, it's possible things won't go the way we hope.

ETA - Although it you ARE looking for specifics, Gentleman Johnny and eselle28 provided some good ones.

[fakely mctest]

I'll share something that happened over the summer that I think was an excellent example of what could have been a cold approach but, ultimately, wasn't.  It also happened in a public transit context, just to add a degree of difficulty!

I was taking the light rail back from a friend's place.  My friend lives outside the densely populated city center of a city I don't live in and it was a weekend so there was maybe one other person on the platform.  I was at the ticket machine when a guy came up to me and asked how to use it and I explained; he mentioned that he'd never ridden the light rail even though he'd lived in the city for a number of months and I admitted that  I'd only ridden it once before (when I'd used it to get to my friend's place earlier).  He mentioned that he was coming from work and I asked him what he did (architecture firm).  We chatted a bit about a nearby building and gentrification in general.  This was all on the platform.

When the train arrived, I got on and took a seat and he asked if I'd mind if he sat next to me.  We talked some about his plans for the rest of the day (4th of July) and the BBQ I'd come from.  

I think, at that point, he could have asked if I'd like to tag along to the big public event he was headed for, and I would have felt comfortable enough to agree.  I also could have asked him if he minded company.  

My stop came and I told him that it had been a pleasure.  We wished each other well.

It still makes me happy to think about how nice that little interlude was.  Just a momentary connection with a stranger that left me with such a positive feeling.

There are a number of things that this approach had going for it:

1. It wasn't super approach-y, just someone asking for assistance.
2. Even though the platform was empty, it was outside (lots of ways to get away on an open light rail platform) and it was broad daylight.
3. It was a weekend and I definitely wasn't wearing workwear, so I was more amenable to the conversation than I would ever be during my weekday commuting.
4. He asked if he could sit down to continue a conversation we were both participating in prior to boarding.
5. The conversation itself was varied and had nothing to do with my looks.

[Guest]

I feel like turning this around.  Taking the above to its farthest conclusion, you can easily get the radical attitude of "never interact with a woman you don't already know".

I've read so many things on the old forum, the blog and everywhere else online that I've concluded that no-approach seems to be the only option. But then I read conflicting info and it becomes a huge mess in my head.

How's a dude supposed to get anywhere? I feel like this is one of the biggest catch-22's of the human condition...

so no i still havent figured it out :I

[eselle28]

I feel like turning this around.  Taking the above to its farthest conclusion, you can easily get the radical attitude of "never interact with a woman you don't already know".

I've read so many things on the old forum, the blog and everywhere else online that I've concluded that no-approach seems to be the only option. But then I read conflicting info and it becomes a huge mess in my head.

How's a dude supposed to get anywhere? I feel like this is one of the biggest catch-22's of the human condition...

so no i still havent figured it out :I

I feel like sometimes getting into the specifics helps more with this than talking in generalities. Where do you find yourself wanting to approach women?

[Gentleman Johnny]

I've read so many things on the old forum, the blog and everywhere else online that I've concluded that no-approach seems to be the only option. But then I read conflicting info and it becomes a huge mess in my head.

How's a dude supposed to get anywhere? I feel like this is one of the biggest catch-22's of the human condition...

so no i still havent figured it out :I

Short and possibly useless answer - take chances, do your best to be considerate of others and if you mess up, apologize briefly then politely extract yourself from the situation.

[Mel]

I feel like turning this around.  Taking the above to its farthest conclusion, you can easily get the radical attitude of "never interact with a woman you don't already know".

I've read so many things on the old forum, the blog and everywhere else online that I've concluded that no-approach seems to be the only option. But then I read conflicting info and it becomes a huge mess in my head.

How's a dude supposed to get anywhere? I feel like this is one of the biggest catch-22's of the human condition...

In addition to what GJ said, I think you need to remember that the vast majority of people do not meet their romantic partners through cold approaches. It's far from a necessary skill when it comes to dating. If you're not comfortable with feeling out each situation and person and figuring out when you think it's appropriate, stick to meeting people at school/work, interest groups, social gatherings, etc. and asking out women you become acquainted with that way, and/or use OLD, and that's actually more likely to work out, statistically speaking!

[Dan_Brodribb]

I sometimes wonder about these threads. We say they're about approaching, but to me it feels they're equally about NOT APPROACHING.

And that's a subject we seem to ignore.

The thing is, cold approaching is one of the most over-valued and over-talked about skills in all of internet dating-advice-dom. Women ask about it. Men ask about it. PUAs talk about how to do it. Feminists talk about how to do it. Dating advice writers talk about it.

There are a lot of different ideas out there about when and how to do it and who to do it to. And while it's true some advice is more helpful than others, there is reams of stuff out there. So if people want to 'learn how to approach' there is a LOT of stuff out there from the technical to the situational to the psychological.

So often when I hear people express hopelessness about approaching or who 'want to know how to do right', especially people who are not actively doing approaches, I wonder if they are actually looking for more information on approaching or if they are looking for someone or something to justify their decision to not do it.

It's okay to find approaching difficult. It's okay to find approaching scary and to be worried about how others will perceive you or being rejected. It's okay to decide not to do it--as Mel said, it's a low-percentage play for getting a partner. It's strength is in building confidence, gaining social experience, and helping people realize that they can do something that makes them anxious or ends in rejection and still be okay. But there are lots of other ways to do those things also.

It's okay to decide cold approaching isn't for you right now or ever. It's also okay to do one or two and change your mind.

But if it's the case--and I'm not trying to single anyone out personally here, only you know your own hearts--that you're trying to hide your anxiety and fear about talking to strangers from yourself under a cloak of "I'm not afraid--I'm just doing what's best for the otherfolk by protecting them from myself" or "Respecting boundaries" or whatever, it's not going to work.

Our bodies know when we're lying to ourselves.

And if you're looking for other people to validate or justify those lies you're telling yourself--that doesn't work either. Even if they DO tell you what you think you want to hear, it won't help you at all.

Because your body KNOWS. And it will let you know it knows. And you will keep feeling it, whether you want to or not.

[Guest]

The absolute best way to cold approach anyone is to find something in common. Trouble is, this takes a really fucking long time. I'm not speaking as a person who is socially comfortable. Hell, most of my approaches still miserably fail. But finding a common place to talk about is the absolute best way.

First requirement: cleanliness. Obvious to you folks, I'm not worried about you. But it's the people who don't shower for weeks and don't shave who need it. Lose weight, shave, hygiene, all that. Required.

Second requirement: that whole "independent outcome mentality" thing Doc always talked about. Out of all of his advice (which I disagree with most personally), that's one of those things he's completely right about. It takes a long time to build up that kind of mentality. We've been conditioned in a "SEX NAOW" kinda thinking, and we need to undo that if we actually wanna get with people.

Talking to girls about this, typically the disconnect between sexual desire and romantic desire is that sexual desire isn't necessarily genuine. They know full fucking well a lot of dudes out there just want a thing to stick their thing in, and who that thing belongs to doesn't matter one iota. They are very scared of being a "living sex toy," and having witnessed such behaviors for myself, I can confirm this wholeheartedly. In fact, a lot of the stupid shit I thought about women stemmed from this discrepancy. Having never been truly sexually desired before, I didn't know what it felt like, to be the thing to satisfy a thing because said person is lonely. Definitely did the reverse of that by accident, never with any malicious intent, but that's not much better.

This is why women are so fucking defensive. It sounds obvious to us enlightened people (har har), but what I'd been doing all wrong is not thinking about it on a micro level. And then I evaluated my own behavior. How many of the women I wanted sexually were people I liked as people? Almost none. They detected this, and naturally rejected me.

What does this have to do with cold approaches? I don't believe in straight up walking to a girl and artificially starting a conversation when you're shy (like me). Because it'll be clear then what you want. Why the fuck else would you randomly talk to someone about their day? Seriously, you're not starting random conversations with the gender you're not attracted to, why would you with them? And they think "goddammit, not another one of these clowns."

I'm sorry this is such a male orientated kinda post, by the way.

Your behavior must become gender neutral. If you wouldn't say it to one gender, you don't say it to the other.

But how do I start the conversation?

I'm still figuring that out. Best thing I can do is to make some kind of observation about something that she can agree with, and continue to make observations until the conversation is established naturally. This is something I would do with anyone I found interesting. She thinks, "hey, this guy really likes to talk," and that gives you a fighting chance.

But not exactly, because of your independent outcome mentality. When the conversation ends, just ask for the number straightforward. "I really liked talking to someone I've never talked to before, would you like to do that again at some other time? How do I contact you?" Make a big joke out of it, creeps don't tend to have a sense of humor.

Actually, making a farce out of the entire social process has worked really well for me, since no one else does it and it's not really sexual. Because the main point isn't to have sex, it's to meet people. I am trying to condition myself away from "MUST GET IN HER PANTS ASAP" and instead "whoa, she's really cute. I wonder if she's cool to talk to."

But how do I compliment a girl?

I do a really minor form of negging. I guess it's just teasing, maybe. I dunno. But it's kind of a playful insult meant to make her laugh instead of intimidate her. I don't want her scared or clamoring for my respect (which isn't happening even if I wanted to), I want her thinking I'm really funny.

For example, say a girl asks if she looks pretty. You give her an intense stare and say something silly like "you look exactly like a human being to me." And then, you can say something like "well, you got hair and eyes and a nose and two ears and a mouth, I think you're human? Are you?" Make it a big joke, it's all fun and games, you just wanna joke around.

How do you initiate physical contact in a noncreepy way?

Well you gotta make it part of the "joke" rather than awkwardly trying to touch her back or something. It has to feel like you're playacting. Immediately when you meet her, offer to shake hands, and then pretend that it's stuck to you like superglue, or pretend she's electrocuted you. Something like that, something really silly, to get her to laugh. Main goal: make people laugh. Everything you're doing with girls should also be done with guys. Not to mention that treating both genders identically is a really smart thing to do regardless.

That's as far as I've gone, I still can't figure out how to express attraction or ask a girl out without a rejection. I've gotten really noncommittal responses at best, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with me.

As far as approaching goes, that's what I do. At the very least, I'm not regarded as a creep, and that's all that matters. I am so deeply paranoid about being creepy that I'm very self-conscious about what I do around people. But hopefully that helps.

[Gentleman Johnny]

Honestly, if I'm approaching someone I don't know, my intentions are rarely romantic. . . or at least exclusively romantic. I may be a bit spoiled because I live in a town that values conventionally attractive, physically fr women but looks are never enough. Whether I'm in a club or at an event or on the bus, if I strike up a conversation with a stranger, it will be because something about them jumped out at me as a topic of conversation. Even when I do approach someone strictly to hit on them, I want to know about them. That means a real conversation about shared interests. Is she passionate or jaded, cool or excitable, judgmental or open minded? I go in ready to walk away if things don't work out.

I think that's part of it. A lot of guys, when they see a very attractive woman who's got some similar interests (eg is in the comic shop at all) immediately develop something of a crush. She's a one of a kind, a geek unicorn who must be approached with the utmost caution lest she be scared away. I still get that initial flash but it washes over me quickly enough. It gets a lot easier to approach a woman when you're just interested in talking about stuff instead of picking out your wedding suit in your head. If there's chemistry, great. Escalate. If not, have fun talking about how Captain America would probably be more liberal than the average American today then move on.

[eselle28]

If not, have fun talking about how Captain America would probably be more liberal than the average American today then move on.

Off topic, but that's a damn good pickup line/subject. Or at least it sounds like a much more interesting conversation than the usual where do you live/what do you do/where do you hang out pitter patter.

[Conreezy]

I have never approached a woman this way, but I have started random bits of conversation in a "cold" way to practice talking to perfect strangers (women and men.) It's a great way to build the communication skills that can apply in the places where interaction of a flirty nature is more expected.

[inertia]

Honestly, if I'm approaching someone I don't know, my intentions are rarely romantic. . . or at least exclusively romantic. I may be a bit spoiled because I live in a town that values conventionally attractive, physically fr women but looks are never enough. Whether I'm in a club or at an event or on the bus, if I strike up a conversation with a stranger, it will be because something about them jumped out at me as a topic of conversation. Even when I do approach someone strictly to hit on them, I want to know about them. That means a real conversation about shared interests. Is she passionate or jaded, cool or excitable, judgmental or open minded? I go in ready to walk away if things don't work out.

I think that's part of it. A lot of guys, when they see a very attractive woman who's got some similar interests (eg is in the comic shop at all) immediately develop something of a crush. She's a one of a kind, a geek unicorn who must be approached with the utmost caution lest she be scared away. I still get that initial flash but it washes over me quickly enough. It gets a lot easier to approach a woman when you're just interested in talking about stuff instead of picking out your wedding suit in your head. If there's chemistry, great. Escalate. If not, have fun talking about how Captain America would probably be more liberal than the average American today then move on.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I commute to work so I can read or knit... surprisingly enough there are regular people on the bus that become people I will chit chat with. I was on a subway in Toronto after I bought roving to spin yarn. and I had a number of people come and ask be about what I was doing. Because I was sitting using my drop spindle. If I am knitting I am perfectly willing to have a friendly conversation.

I used to love going to indie band shows... people have band t-shirt on which was always a conversation starter. Or which band they were there to see.

Glides approaching people... think of it less like I trying to get a date and more like being social. Think about it more like lets test the water and see what this person is like. if they peak your interest and and things are coming to an end say something "I really enjoyed talking to you, maybe we could get coffee sometime and talk some more" if they proceed to with in a positive way then you ask to exchange contacts if not you can just brush it off as just a conversation.

Maybe people who are in you pass in your day to day life could be someone to try just talking with. "You know we pass each other pretty regularly, I thought I should introduce myself. How has your day been?"

[Lemminkainen]

Your behavior must become gender neutral. If you wouldn't say it to one gender, you don't say it to the other.

I think that "You should only say it if you wouldn't also say it to a person you didn't want to fuck" might better capture what you seem to be going for here.

Regarding compliments: There's actually a wide-range of acceptable appearance-based compliments-- they're just about a person's clothing, accessories, body mods, and grooming rather than their body itself.  If you say these things, you're saying "I like your style"-- which is saying something about their choices, aesthetic judgment, and personality.  (Of course, you need to make this sincere-- if it's obvious that you're really talking about what you think of their ass, the effect will be the same as if you had complimented their ass.)

I've found that most people respond really positively to style-based compliments-- particularly ones about distinctive items like shoes, jackets, jewelry, tattoos, piercings, and strange hair.  (True story: I once told a random woman I passed on the street on my walk home that I thought her blue hair was cool.  She helped me carry my huge stack of library books home and gave me her phone number.)  This is true whether or not there is mutual sexual interest-- I've found it really helpful even when striking up friendly conversations with people who I have no interest at all in boning.

If you're a man, doing this might make people suspect that you're gay, but if you're aiming for an interaction with a woman which doesn't freak her out, this is actually a huge plus, since being gay-seeming makes you less threatening.  You can set matters straight if you find that there's some chemistry.

[fakely mctest]

It's okay to decide cold approaching isn't for you right now or ever. It's also okay to do one or two and change your mind.

So I basically think everything that Dan said is smart and true. I wanted to highlight this bit and just tease out the nuance for folks who may have varying degrees of social anxiety (like yours truly!). If it's something that your jerkbrain will allow and cold approaching is something you're potentially interested in, do give it a shot or two. I get ferociously anxious prior to doing things, but I also find that if I steel myself and get over the initial mental resistance I generally end up feeling pretty positive about most experiences. It's just getting past the initial nopetopus, "you know what's a viable lifestyle? hibernation," sort of mindset. It's something I never would have found out about myself if I hadn't made myself do these sorts of social things initially.

[kath]

Regarding compliments: There's actually a wide-range of acceptable appearance-based compliments-- they're just about a person's clothing, accessories, body mods, and grooming rather than their body itself.  If you say these things, you're saying "I like your style"-- which is saying something about their choices, aesthetic judgment, and personality.  (Of course, you need to make this sincere-- if it's obvious that you're really talking about what you think of their ass, the effect will be the same as if you had complimented their ass.)

I get a fair number of style-related compliments from women and men, normally not in the context of a romantic approach, and I like receiving them (because they are normally at large events or at least when I can see the person clearly (not on a dark street or hollered from who knows where), and they aren't giving me cues they are unsafe / have some sort of agenda they wish to push on me or whatever). These are respectful and seem sincere,. They are nothing like catcalls, even if all the person says to me is "I like your hair!". Also, you know how people who drive the same car that is clearly a style choice wave at each other? People with the haircut I have do that by saying "nice hair" to each other .

There's also two particular instances where I suspect the man approaching me may have been interested in a romantic approach (though this is not something I'm good at identifying, and I'm not available, so I just have the conversation), that might have worked if I had been available (and possibly if were less shy). In once case, a young man probably about my age sat down beside me on a bus, he complimented my hairstyle (which I've had for a long time and went from being relatively unique to now quite popular), and we had a short conversation about style and whatever until I got off at my stop. This was a positive interaction because he was not pushy, and just having the chit chatty conversation seemed to be A-OK with him.

The second time I was at a movie theatre where I was setting up an art piece prior to a documentary premiere, and I had to get the guy who worked there to help me print something, and he was chatting about the art piece and asking me a lot of questions and joking with me and asking me to come back later for some sort of live radio show at midnight. This was a positive interaction because he was clearly pretty jazzed by the art project I was setting up, whatever else he may have been jazzed about. The interaction worked really well as "I have just met a cool new person" not "I am trying to get to know this person better only so I can see if they will date me". I may have totally read that situation wrong and that guy was not flirting with me at all, and it was still a totally nice interaction. He was complimenting my work, not my style, or my body. Additionally, when I was like "I'm hoping to be at home asleep at that time!" was responded to with "oh cool, have a good night" type stuff - there was no pressure whatsoever. And this guy was not slick or uber charismatic, he was somewhat socially awkward like me.

Totally agreed with Dan's take on things. I think cold approach "to date right now" just doesn't have the numbers backing it as Primary Date Obtaining Stratey. Cold approaching to have a wider circle of people you might want to get to know better, platonically or romantically, has a lot of benefits, simply because the goal is reframed.

That doesn't make it easy, I am horrible at it - I totally do the "what do I say to the person in line at the checkout with me? What if they respond with something uncomfortable?" and even "oh, I want to talk to that person I am vaguely acquainted with, but what if I'm bothering them?" and "I would really liker to talk to that cool person about the cool thing I know we have in common but what if I'm bothering them?" but those are how I feel about it, not objective truths or measures of how other people will respond.

[nolorn]

I think another unstated rule is:
-be good looking
-don't be not good looking

[Lemminkainen]

I think another unstated rule is:
-be good looking
-don't be not good looking

Being conventionally good looking makes things easier (since more people are more likely to consider you approaching them desirable), but it doesn't guarantee that you won't creep out the other person (a lot of people here have mentioned unpleasant interactions with conventionally attractive people), and you definitely can be a non-good-looking person and approach people without freaking them out-- you'll just need to be more careful than your better-looking counterparts.

[nolorn]

I think another unstated rule is:
-be good looking
-don't be not good looking

Being conventionally good looking makes things easier (since more people are more likely to consider you approaching them desirable), but it doesn't guarantee that you won't creep out the other person (a lot of people here have mentioned unpleasant interactions with conventionally attractive people), and you definitely can be a non-good-looking person and approach people without freaking them out-- you'll just need to be more careful than your better-looking counterparts.

Of course it is easy to fail

it is very difficult to succed especially if you a hetero male in the dating world

even Dan Savage pities us
lol

[Guest]

I feel like sometimes getting into the specifics helps more with this than talking in generalities. Where do you find yourself wanting to approach women?

Where do I find myself wanting to approach? Anywhere at anytime, actually, I just don't have the brass to do it. I've done it a few times, but I felt like a jackass afterwards.

Short and possibly useless answer - take chances, do your best to be considerate of others and if you mess up, apologize briefly then politely extract yourself from the situation.

Oh, chances I've taken plenty of never has any of them worked in my favor.

In addition to what GJ said, I think you need to remember that the vast majority of people do not meet their romantic partners through cold approaches.

Well then how does anyone meet their partner... ?

It's far from a necessary skill when it comes to dating.  If you're not comfortable with feeling out each situation and person and figuring out when you think it's appropriate, stick to meeting people at school/work, interest groups, social gatherings, etc. and asking out women you become acquainted with that way, and/or use OLD, and that's actually more likely to work out, statistically speaking!  

Heh, thanks for the suggestions. :3 I've seriously tried all those suggestions and no dice, most of these I've gone with the intention of not looking for anyone because I think it's a shitty thing to go somewhere with the sole intention of wanting to fuck someone. Plus OLD I find to be just as terrifying as cold approaching; I'd find a profile I like aaaand then I'd move on. :\

I sometimes wonder about these threads. We say they're about approaching, but to me it feels they're equally about NOT APPROACHING.

And that's a subject we seem to ignore.

Well, that's a subject I pay very close attention to...

The thing is, cold approaching is one of the most over-valued and over-talked about skills in all of internet dating-advice-dom. Women ask about it. Men ask about it. PUAs talk about how to do it. Feminists talk about how to do it. Dating advice writers talk about it.

But... didn't the Doc once say it was an important skill?

So often when I hear people express hopelessness about approaching or who 'want to know how to do right', especially people who are not actively doing approaches, I wonder if they are actually looking for more information on approaching or if they are looking for someone or something to justify their decision to not do it.

I'll be the first to admit that not only do I have no idea what I'm doing, I'm afraid of cold approaches.

It's okay to decide cold approaching isn't for you right now or ever. It's also okay to do one or two and change your mind.

But if it's the case--and I'm not trying to single anyone out personally here, only you know your own hearts--that you're trying to hide your anxiety and fear about talking to strangers from yourself under a cloak of "I'm not afraid--I'm just doing what's best for the otherfolk by protecting them from myself" or "Respecting boundaries" or whatever, it's not going to work.

Our bodies know when we're lying to ourselves.

I will openly admit to being afraid of approaching AND wanting to respect boundaries.

And if you're looking for other people to validate or justify those lies you're telling yourself--that doesn't work either. Even if they DO tell you what you think you want to hear, it won't help you at all.

Because your body KNOWS. And it will let you know it knows. And you will keep feeling it, whether you want to or not.

Well duh, I know my body and I are afraid.

I think that's part of it. A lot of guys, when they see a very attractive woman who's got some similar interests (eg is in the comic shop at all) immediately develop something of a crush. She's a one of a kind, a geek unicorn who must be approached with the utmost caution lest she be scared away. I still get that initial flash but it washes over me quickly enough. It gets a lot easier to approach a woman when you're just interested in talking about stuff instead of picking out your wedding suit in your head. If there's chemistry, great. Escalate. If not, have fun talking about how Captain America would probably be more liberal than the average American today then move on.

Ahh, in that hypothetical scenario, I'd just leave them alone. I'm sure they get bothered enough by other dudes, so I'll leave them be. And if I'm attracted to them I'd be nervous as hell anyway, and that would also keep me away, so everyone wins!

what am i doing neutering my romantic life D:

[nearly_takuan]

In addition to what GJ said, I think you need to remember that the vast majority of people do not meet their romantic partners through cold approaches.

Well then how does anyone meet their partner... ?

It's far from a necessary skill when it comes to dating.  If you're not comfortable with feeling out each situation and person and figuring out when you think it's appropriate, stick to meeting people at school/work, interest groups, social gatherings, etc. and asking out women you become acquainted with that way, and/or use OLD, and that's actually more likely to work out, statistically speaking!  

Heh, thanks for the suggestions. :3 I've seriously tried all those suggestions and no dice, most of these I've gone with the intention of not looking for anyone because I think it's a shitty thing to go somewhere with the sole intention of wanting to fuck someone. Plus OLD I find to be just as terrifying as cold approaching; I'd find a profile I like aaaand then I'd move on. :\

I guess you're supposed to know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who isn't repulsed by the idea of you wanting to have dinner with them (and vice versa, of course, but after a point one gets the feeling that one has no right to any criteria at all).

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