Re: [Disc] This community lately and my place in it

[Enail]

<mod> Litterature, we asked that people not use this thread (or any other on the forum) to discuss interactions on Prime. That includes things in response to earlier comments. I'm removing the section of your post that discusses DNL Prime specifically, but am leaving the one that is largely about comment sections in general. In the future, please take more care to read mod notes, and particularly in a thread that has been contentious. </mod>

[litterature]

<mod> Litterature, we asked that people not use this thread (or any other on the forum) to discuss interactions on Prime. That includes things in response to earlier comments. I'm removing the section of your post that discusses DNL Prime specifically, but am leaving the one that is largely about comment sections in general. In the future, please take more care to read mod notes, and particularly in a thread that has been contentious. </mod>

Oh, I'm sorry! I thought not calling out anybody and not mentioning any interaction in particular would be enough, my bad.

[Enail]

Oh, sorry, I'll edit the original instruction to make that clearer.

[Caffeinated]

I'm going to bumble a bit, so apologies.

So, it seems that there is a distinct lack of reciprocity on the side of members who are more likely to seek advice/vent/be dickheads/whatever.

I've been aware of this to the extent that I don't feel comfortable in making threads about personal shit.

I'd like to ask: Did you guys reasonably expect better from us?

Speaking for myself, what could I possibly offer besides the rare "Thank you", which is, let's be honest, inadequate anyway? What exactly can I offer that is of equal or greater weight to match what you provide?

First, I want to second what jcorozza said. And second, this is an opportunity to do an empathy exercise. Put yourself in the shoes of some of the other members of the forum and ask what are they seeking by interacting on here. If some people aren't looking specifically or only for dating advice, are they looking for community? A feeling of acceptance? Social interaction? A feeling that the things they say and advice they give are interesting and/or valuable? As a community member, you're in a position to offer those things, right?

[Wondering]

Yes, I agree with jcorozza and very much with Caffeinated. Having empathy towards other people and what they may be seeking in being here will help you understand what you can offer.

I'd also say that not all "withdrawals" from the good will bank are equal. A simple request for advice is a small withdrawal. An expectation, explicit or implicit, for a specific sort of response to the request for advice is bigger withdrawal. Expectation of responses on a certain timeline is a bigger withdrawal. Derailing is a huge withdrawal.

So if your concern is that you don't want to ask for advice because you feel you have nothing to give, I think, first re-evaluate what sorts of giving (or deposits into the good will bank) may actually be valued by people who are here for reasons different than yours. For example, wishing happy birthday in the birthday thread or wishing someone good luck or congratulations on an event they mentioned are giving. (For me, joining me in complaining about or condemning anti-vaxxers would also be a good-will deposit. ) Second, keep in mind how big a withdrawal you're making. If it's a simple, good-faith request for advice, chances are, it's not that big of a withdrawal.

[Enail]

I second what everyone else is saying about deposits and withdrawals. And on a site that's pretty heavily founded on advice-giving-and-getting, at least, I don't think seeking advice is inherently a withdrawal, as long as advice is accepted and/or rejected gracefully.

It tends to become a withdrawal if it's very repetitive, if it insults others or rests on insulting assumptions, if it is demanding or emotionally intense in content or tone, if it is inserted into an inappropriate situation, or if there's a mismatch between what the person says they want and what they actually seem to want (eg.says they're looking for advice on something specific and practical, but rejects all practical advice and mostly seems to want to vent).

On the other hand, I think advice-seeking can sometimes result in a deposit; if it builds on discussions or suggestions others here have given previously in a way that shows thought for what they've said, if it's open-ended enough to spark interesting discussions, if it generates advice that's broadly applicable to others here, if it gives weight to feelings or concerns that others have expressed, if they attempt to understand the perspectives of others. Some of the best discussions we've had here and some of the ideas that have been most useful to me personally have come out of someone else's thread to seek advice!

[nearly_takuan]

Via PM, Hermit has made deposits that in my estimation were a net benefit to the entire forum. Not sure if it's okay to go into further detail on that, so I'll leave it there, but yeah. Just 'cause it wasn't public (or available to be appreciated publicly) doesn't mean it's not valued or valuable.

[Enail]

Oh, and I think PMs and other ways of forming more individual personal connections count as deposits as well even if they don't affect more than those individuals. As I was saying earlier, one's relationship with a community isn't really anything other than some kind of messy aggregate of one's relationships with the individuals who make up the community

[jcorozza]

I'd also say that not all "withdrawals" from the good will bank are equal. A simple request for advice is a small withdrawal. An expectation, explicit or implicit, for a specific sort of response to the request for advice is bigger withdrawal. Expectation of responses on a certain timeline is a bigger withdrawal. Derailing is a huge withdrawal.

This is also a good point. If you ask me for money, then immediately take it, throw it on the ground and spit on it, I don't really want to give you more money. If you take it, thank me, and then use it for something you need, I feel like my money did a good, helpful thing, and I'm likely to lend you more in the future.

[Guest]

I'm having a hard time trying to congeal my feelings about all of this into intelligible thoughts and comprehensible sentences.

It also seems like I'm the only one at moment, who's trying to talk about my perspective as a mainly non-contributor (and why I am one to begin with). Which means that we've already derailed the thread.

Do the mods agree that this topic would be better explored on a separate thread altogether?

[reboot]

So as not to hijack Wisp's thread, I agree, Hermit

[Izmuth]

I can advice you to follow my lead: Don't read comment sections

At least on forums people can put you on ignore and you can put people on ignore.

Plus, moderation is normally heavier which helps delays the inevitable polarization that communities always seem to go through. You only need two persons that like shouting, and they chase away all the people who don't, until you end up with a community with only people that like to shout.

(Obviously I'm talking in generalities here, since as said I hardly read the prime comment section, so I can't judge whether that's the case there. There's a high probability I'm talking out of my ass)

On an aside note: Even though I also hardly post on the forum, I'm still grateful that it's there. You all have been nothing but accepting, and have provided me with invaluable advice (most of it I didn't have to use yet, but it makes me less anxious to have planned for eventualities). Never change peepz <3 (except for the better!)

[nearly_takuan]

Yeah, for you in particular, Izmuth, the comments section on Paging is definitely going to be something you generally don't want to read. Lots of hurtful stuff in there, as I'm sure you know....

[Izmuth]

...I actually did not Nearly, thanks for the warning.

I've got to admit I expected the topic to just... not come up.
I assume there were some virginity fetishists again posting on DNL?
"Women lose all value above age X and access to young girls is a basic human right YADAYADAYADA"

[Perlandra]

You're back posting, so this may be irrelevant, but I hope I wasn't one of the people who you felt was condemning you as toxic! If anything, I think the opposite is true, I was trying to reach out to you because I do feel you're a good, caring person, and was worried about you.

[litterature]

IMO this isn't about Wisp or whiny people or whatever. <mod edit to remove comments that violate the mod instructions for this thread>

Anyway, the comments section of DNL Prime is just that, a comments section, and even though it's healthier than most and some decent stuff is posted regularly, it's still a comments section so I don't think it's worth anybody's time: it's too easy to make assumptions, or to give poorly thought out answers, or to be needlessly rude, or to be cliqueish, because that's the nature of places where you can post easily and where you don't really know where others are coming from (so you end up saying the same stuff everyone already knows about and then people know exactly where you're coming from and you get 35 million upvotes.) The most unpleasant aspect of this is that even when people are on the same side, discussions take on an antagonistic tone which I think makes things be about fitting in and belonging rather than actually discussing, so that's why I deleted my account even though my comments were usually well-received.

On the other hand, I'll say something that is more related to Wisp himself. I dislike some of the stuff he says with a passion, but on the Internet there seems to be a bit of a stigma against feeling down. It's perfectly fine to be sad and that doesn't make you a resentful fedora (unless you're in fact a resentful fedora that is), and I don't think it's ever acceptable to say "suck it up" to anyone unless they're complaining about something that's really petty and not personal at all <mod edit to remove comments that violate the mod instructions for this thread>

I take back what I said here. It's a broad generalisation that sounds like it means something but it doesn't, and I didn't think enough about it before posting. It wasn't even on-topic, because of course it was about Wisp! It is his thread after all.

[eselle28]

<mod>Wisp has indicated that he doesn't wish to participate in the Nerdlove prime community anymore. I'm not sure whether he intends to continue posting here or not, but at this point, the topic at hand is a month and a half old. As it contains some discussions that I suspect many community members find upsetting for various reasons and others that against forum rules, I'm going to lock it.

Wisp, if you're around and want to talk to people about topics that are within the forum guidelines, I think a new thread would be a better idea. Everyone else? Let's not talk about Wisp in the forums while he's not around. Even if comments are well-intentioned and kindly, talking to or about someone who's not here can be pressuring and frustrating for them and isn't really a fair discussion.

Oh, and litterature, this isn't meant to be punitive toward you. Your reply is gracious and isn't violating any forum policies. It just seems as if this is a discussion that should probably come to an end.</mod>

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