High Libido, Low Drag [vent/disc]

[Guest]

I was trying to make a Top Gun joke in there, dun think it went well lol.

TMI WARNING: I will be talking about myself, my junk, my orgasms and my libido and just overall personal sex stuff.

Spoiler:

[PintsizeBro]

You talk about virginity and the inability to have sex with another person like it's a foregone conclusion. Why is that? I'm new to the board, is this something that people more familiar with your posts would know?

My first bit of advice would be to get better at masturbating. It sounds like you treat masturbation like brushing your teeth, something to get done so you can get rid of this inconvenient boner. If you adjust your goal from "orgasm as quickly as possible" to "take your time, enjoy yourself, maybe try something a little different" you might find it more satisfying. Take the opportunity to find out what you really like, so that when you do find yourself in bed with someone, you know how to guide them to make you happy. Also, you can build up your stamina.

Also, exercise. It might take the edge off your libido. It might not. But exercise has lots of other benefits, so it's worth doing even if it doesn't cut down on your daily boners.

Ultimately, though, you need to learn to accept your feelings for what they are and live with them. Yes, they're difficult and inconvenient. Feelings often are. But take it from a former virgin, once you've had sex, you realize not having it isn't the end of the world.

[The Wisp]

My first bit of advice would be to get better at masturbating. It sounds like you treat masturbation like brushing your teeth, something to get done so you can get rid of this inconvenient boner. If you adjust your goal from "orgasm as quickly as possible" to "take your time, enjoy yourself, maybe try something a little different" you might find it more satisfying. Take the opportunity to find out what you really like, so that when you do find yourself in bed with someone, you know how to guide them to make you happy. Also, you can build up your stamina.

I want to second this, as it has been my experience.

[Prajnaparamita]

My first bit of advice would be to get better at masturbating. It sounds like you treat masturbation like brushing your teeth, something to get done so you can get rid of this inconvenient boner. If you adjust your goal from "orgasm as quickly as possible" to "take your time, enjoy yourself, maybe try something a little different" you might find it more satisfying. Take the opportunity to find out what you really like, so that when you do find yourself in bed with someone, you know how to guide them to make you happy. Also, you can build up your stamina.

I want to second this, as it has been my experience.

Thirding this, but not from my own experience but from what my boyfriend has told me about how he likes to masturbate. Yeah, sure, sometimes it just has to be a release to just get it out and go to bed, but when he has time he'll really take his time to enjoy it--spend a good long time looking for porn clips he enjoys, construct a fantasy he enjoys, ect... He calls it "masturbating like a woman" which I really don't mind, because for me creating a scenario in my head and imagining things that really turn me on is just as important and enjoyable as what I'm doing physically. And as to the frequency I can also relate from him that it does get better and calm down quite a bit. Though as that took him a couple decades I'm not sure how much comfort that will bring.

[Guest]

Thirding this, but not from my own experience but from what my boyfriend has told me about how he likes to masturbate. Yeah, sure, sometimes it just has to be a release to just get it out and go to bed, but when he has time he'll really take his time to enjoy it--spend a good long time looking for porn clips he enjoys, construct a fantasy he enjoys, ect... He calls it "masturbating like a woman" which I really don't mind, because for me creating a scenario in my head and imagining things that really turn me on is just as important and enjoyable as what I'm doing physically. And as to the frequency I can also relate from him that it does get better and calm down quite a bit. Though as that took him a couple decades I'm not sure how much comfort that will bring.

Don't get me wrong, kids. I enjoy masturbation, I love it, it's fun, keeps the edge off and like Louis CK said, it keeps me sane. It's just gotten... stale.

Prajna, I've done exactly what your boyfriend's been doing for the last 10 years. Since I had my sexual awakening, I've been 'masturbating like a woman'! I'd masturbate thinking of the girls I had a thing for, the cougar teachers I had a thing for and to this day I still do that. I'll search for whatever porn I'm in the mood for and just go at it, start & stop, back & forth. Edging closer and closer until I say to myself "Okay, let's gooooo." And I have and enjoy my orgasm and I feel my eyes roll back sometimes if it's some porn I REALLY enjoyed. I'll usually joke to myself that I came with the fury of an angry god. But even if I enjoyed that I'm kinda left feeling still empty. Like, I want another person with me to feel that orgasm with me (and I with them) and tremble and shake with them in my bed, cuddle and then go to sleep.

But you know how it is.

[Prajnaparamita]

Don't get me wrong, kids. I enjoy masturbation, I love it, it's fun, keeps the edge off and like Louis CK said, it keeps me sane. It's just gotten... stale.

Prajna, I've done exactly what your boyfriend's been doing for the last 10 years. Since I had my sexual awakening, I've been 'masturbating like a woman'! I'd masturbate thinking of the girls I had a thing for, the cougar teachers I had a thing for and to this day I still do that. I'll search for whatever porn I'm in the mood for and just go at it, start & stop, back & forth. Edging closer and closer until I say to myself "Okay, let's gooooo." And I have and enjoy my orgasm and I feel my eyes roll back sometimes if it's some porn I REALLY enjoyed. I'll usually joke to myself that I came with the fury of an angry god.

Okay, I'm really glad that you are getting yourself off in an enjoyable way! Also this might have been said already but being able to do that (think about what you enjoy and be able to control when you come) will be really useful when you are actually with a partner! So yay!

But even if I enjoyed that I'm kinda left feeling still empty. Like, I want another person with me to feel that orgasm with me (and I with them) and tremble and shake with them in my bed, cuddle and then go to sleep.

But you know how it is.

Okay so the next thing I was going to suggest was this because everything I have heard about them is amazing (and cheaper than going to a sex worker, because as I know you, you would never do that in anything but a safe and respectful way, and that can be pricey and a little inconvenient), but somehow I think that might not help with what your problem really is...

I'm sorry? Really not sure what to say.

[The Wisp]

I know that empty feeling you described, Mikey. I haven't been able to fully combat it, but one way to lessen it, and in individual cases even overcome it, is to really focus on being happy and relaxed after orgasm. Just sit back and tell yourself to feel good for a few minutes in the post-orgasmic haze!

Here's the thing, part of it is certainly loneliness and unfulfilled desires, but part of it is the simple fact that orgasms are emotionally and physically draining. I think it can be easy to experience that draining as an emptiness rather than satisfaction, especially if you wish you had a somebody to share that part of yourself with, but it isn't inherently empty. You can experience that draining in a different way.

[Caffeinated]

But even if I enjoyed that I'm kinda left feeling still empty. Like, I want another person with me to feel that orgasm with me (and I with them) and tremble and shake with them in my bed, cuddle and then go to sleep.

But you know how it is.

I wish I could say otherwise, but no. In my experience, an orgasm with someone you love is different from one by yourself. Even if the physical sensations are the same, the emotional component changes things. But then, what's the advice in a situation like this? Try harder to find someone to love? That doesn't seem like very constructive advice. Maybe I don't have any advice, but can point out a silver lining, which is that the way you feel is the way a lot of people feel, so when you do find that relationship, you'll be bringing that good emotional stuff to your partner too.

[Guest]

You talk about virginity and the inability to have sex with another person like it's a foregone conclusion. Why is that? I'm new to the board, is this something that people more familiar with your posts would know?

Yeah, it's a bit of a problem I have that I'm slooooooowly working on. I've never been seen as desirable (or so I think ) and having grown up as mostly a husky kid, you get a lot of the wrong messages tossed at you. So you think you're too fat, too ugly, too X, Y and Z. But you're desirable if you're more $arbitrarything, if that makes sense at all.

Now at age 23, I've shattered a lot of beliefs but opening my eyes and taking a good look around, I've grown to accept my body for what it is, I know I'll never be as ripped or lean as Hugh Jackman or (my mancrush) Michael Fassbender respectably. I've accepted that I'm more Jack Black and Seth Rogen than either Jackman or Fassbender. There'll be days where I won't feel as awesome, but others where I'll give no fucks and wear shirts that accentuate my shoulders and narrow my waist.

My first bit of advice would be to get better at masturbating. It sounds like you treat masturbation like brushing your teeth, something to get done so you can get rid of this inconvenient boner. If you adjust your goal from "orgasm as quickly as possible" to "take your time, enjoy yourself, maybe try something a little different" you might find it more satisfying. Take the opportunity to find out what you really like, so that when you do find yourself in bed with someone, you know how to guide them to make you happy. Also, you can build up your stamina.

Yes! I spoke about masturbation very dispassionately and very detached from it here, but trust me; I know what makes me tick and if I have time, I definitely will try to find stuff I enjoy and I will definitely take it slow. I've seen a lot of things that look like fun in porn (want to try) and a lot of things that look like they'll break my penis (DO NOT WANT to try). Obviously, I find more pleasure in the things that look like fun. :3

Also, exercise. It might take the edge off your libido. It might not. But exercise has lots of other benefits, so it's worth doing even if it doesn't cut down on your daily boners.

Ultimately, though, you need to learn to accept your feelings for what they are and live with them. Yes, they're difficult and inconvenient. Feelings often are. But take it from a former virgin, once you've had sex, you realize not having it isn't the end of the world.

Yes, I swim. But I'll be honest, cute girls in one or two piece swimsuits doesn't help much. Especially when the college pool is next to the volleyball court where all the female volleyball players are there chilling. If I'm feeling ballsy, maybe I'll befriend one.

I can accept my feelings of horniness, they're what makes me a dude and ultimately a person. But inconvenient, these horny feelings they are. /Yoda That's also another thing, once I have it, I expect sex to be just another experience I can enjoy with another person I care for.

Okay, I'm really glad that you are getting yourself off in an enjoyable way! Also this might have been said already but being able to do that (think about what you enjoy and be able to control when you come) will be really useful when you are actually with a partner! So yay!

Of course! You masturbate enough over a course of 10 to 11 years and you'll learn a thing or two about what you enjoy and what you like looking at to get off.

Okay so the next thing I was going to suggest was this because everything I have heard about them is amazing (and cheaper than going to a sex worker, because as I know you, you would never do that in anything but a safe and respectful way, and that can be pricey and a little inconvenient), but somehow I think that might not help with what your problem really is...

I'm sorry? Really not sure what to say.

Ah, yes, the Tenga. A friend of mine was telling me about the Tenga egg & stuff since he's experimented with it before (he's a full-on kinkster, I am not). And yes, much cheaper. The Tenga is, matter of fact, far less expensive than a Fleshlight which I considered purchasing upon learning that it was $100+. D:

And you're correct, I'd have to visit a sex worker in a safe and controlled environment if I wanted to do that, unfortunately that kind of deal is illegal in California. But even then I think I'd feel way too intimidated and guilty paying this person to have sex with me for the first time. I know it's their job & all, but it's something I think I should share with someone I care about. Although, maybe a sex therapist/surrogate could help? Still pricey though.

I know that empty feeling you described, Mikey. I haven't been able to fully combat it, but one way to lessen it, and in individual cases even overcome it, is to really focus on being happy and relaxed after orgasm. Just sit back and tell yourself to feel good for a few minutes in the post-orgasmic haze!

Here's the thing, part of it is certainly loneliness and unfulfilled desires, but part of it is the simple fact that orgasms are emotionally and physically draining. I think it can be easy to experience that draining as an emptiness rather than satisfaction, especially if you wish you had a somebody to share that part of yourself with, but it isn't inherently empty. You can experience that draining in a different way.

Usually after a kick-ass orgasm, I just kinda have to relax a little bit and stretch a little more because, goddamn, it felt that good. If I could film the way a good orgasm feels, it'd be like the drug sequences in Requiem for a Dream.

IDK how emotionally draining an orgasm is, but sometimes the orgasm, despite feeling so good ultimately feels empty. Like a good beer with an odd aftertaste. You don't feel bad for drinking this IPA, it's good; but for the same price you coulda had this equally as awesome/better Russian Imperial Stout. I dunno, odd metaphor, I got beer on my mind.

I wish I could say otherwise, but no. In my experience, an orgasm with someone you love is different from one by yourself. Even if the physical sensations are the same, the emotional component changes things. But then, what's the advice in a situation like this? Try harder to find someone to love? That doesn't seem like very constructive advice. Maybe I don't have any advice, but can point out a silver lining, which is that the way you feel is the way a lot of people feel, so when you do find that relationship, you'll be bringing that good emotional stuff to your partner too.

To quote Nigel Tufnel, "Where can you go from there? Where? [...] Nowhere, exactly!"

(never thought I'd use a quote about guitar amps as a metaphor for orgasms )

Yeah, I didn't expect much in advice, but it doesn't hurt to talk about it, even if it's with strangers from the internet. :3 And yes, I definitely appreciate you taking the time to reply and pointing out the silver lining to this. The only other bit of advice I can ask for is, how could I cut back on the horny feelings or reduce my libido if that's even possible?

[Prajnaparamita]

Hey Mikey I just called my boyfriend and asked him what he would recommend for you. He says he went through a dry spell 19-20, and the greatest thing for him was exercise, intense, push himself to the limit with physical exercise. For him at the time it was boxing, (probably also a good bet because in fighting or punching that bag you are going to be letting out tension) and he said after a really good workout or fight you get this sense of release for 6-7 hours (which is a big deal considering.) He also was in a band at the time, and he said playing a show also did the same thing.

Finally, he ended by saying "if you feel horny, go for a three mile run. If you still feel horny after that, go for another three mile run."

It will get better overall, but that's going to take years and probably getting laid.

[Guest]

Hey Mikey I just called my boyfriend and asked him what he would recommend for you. He says he went through a dry spell 19-20, and the greatest thing for him was exercise, intense, push himself to the limit with physical exercise. For him at the time it was boxing, (probably also a good bet because in fighting or punching that bag you are going to be letting out tension) and he said after a really good workout or fight you get this sense of release for 6-7 hours (which is a big deal considering.) He also was in a band at the time, and he said playing a show also did the same thing.

Finally, he ended by saying "if you feel horny, go for a three mile run. If you still feel horny after that, go for another three mile run."

It will get better overall, but that's going to take years and probably getting laid.

Age 19 to 20? Shiiiiiiit, I've been in a dry spell for longer than that .

I see what you mean by excersice, it definitely helps. I'm a swimmer and I like pushing it with every swim as far as I can. By the time I finish a descending ladder at 1 minute, my head is gone and I'm breathing hard. Also being in a band sounds like a lot of fun, but I ain't ever been in a band either. Plus it sounds like being in a band would increase my chances of getting laid too.

All good advice, I dunno if I'd be able to accomplish most of it like running. I've never been able to run a mile non stop, let alone 3. Although walking/hiking seems more doable.

Unfortunately, it does seem like it'll take a few years on top of getting laid too (which probably won't happen for awhile at my current rate either ).

[Prajnaparamita]

Age 19 to 20? Shiiiiiiit, I've been in a dry spell for longer than that .

I see what you mean by excersice, it definitely helps. I'm a swimmer and I like pushing it with every swim as far as I can. By the time I finish a descending ladder at 1 minute, my head is gone and I'm breathing hard. Also being in a band sounds like a lot of fun, but I ain't ever been in a band either. Plus it sounds like being in a band would increase my chances of getting laid too.

Just holding a guitar increases your chances of getting laid, dude. Its an empirical fact. Just as long as nobody tries to make you play it, sitting down with a guitar at a party will have all the girls flocking over to you.

...Unfortunately, it does seem like it'll take a few years on top of getting laid too (which probably won't happen for awhile at my current rate either ).

Yeeeaaahhh... He had some more advice that I either assumed you'd already heard/tried (Tinder, ect) and things I didn't think you needed to hear (there is little about my boyfriend's early sex life that is worth emulating, and actually at 20 he was voluntarily celibate for a year in order to try to sort shit out.)

[Guest]

Just holding a guitar increases your chances of getting laid, dude. Its an empirical fact. Just as long as nobody tries to make you play it, sitting down with a guitar at a party will have all the girls flocking over to you.

Yeeeaaahhh... He had some more advice that I either assumed you'd already heard/tried (Tinder, ect) and things I didn't think you needed to hear (there is little about my boyfriend's early sex life that is worth emulating, and actually at 20 he was voluntarily celibate for a year in order to try to sort shit out.)

Fun fact: I do know how to play guitar. I'm self-taught. I can play little blues shuffles, some Alice in Chains guitar progressions, a couple of Pixies songs, some CCR riffs/licks, Iron Maiden riffs and bunch of other stuff I could play given some practice time.

Yeah, I tried Tinder. That market blows in San Diego, either I'm not handsome enough or they're bots. Otherwise, I match and get unmatched like lightning. >:I Well, I'm curious to hear about what he did in his early days, but if it's on the scummy side, then I don't think I wanna hear about it.

[Prajnaparamita]

Fun fact: I do know how to play guitar. I'm self-taught. I can play little blues shuffles, some Alice in Chains guitar progressions, a couple of Pixies songs, some CCR riffs/licks, Iron Maiden riffs and bunch of other stuff I could play given some practice time.

Doooood. This. More of this. I don't know anyone who doesn't get sexier with the addition of a guitar and making nice music for those around them. I dunno, have you ever found that works for you?

Yeah, I tried Tinder. That market blows in San Diego, either I'm not handsome enough or they're bots. Otherwise, I match and get unmatched like lightning. >:I Well, I'm curious to hear about what he did in his early days, but if it's on the scummy side, then I don't think I wanna hear about it.

Yeah, its on the scummy side... Not like that though, he didn't do anything wrong, its just... He started way, way, way too young. Its hard for me to wrap my head around it, because ever time he says "the first time I had sex" I hear in my mind "when you were molested as a child" even though he doesn't have any problem with it or see it as a particularly negative thing. I just... And then even when he was in a longer term sexual relationship with his first real girlfriend (who was his own age) they were still both way, way, way too young. I just... Try not to think about it too much. I suppose I should talk about it on here sometime, because it is eating away at me somewhat not knowing what to say, but yeah.

Don't do what he did.

[Hae]

I have the same problem except as a woman with a boyfriend who has a much lower libido compared to mine. Need help.

What I used to do was obsessively read smutty fanfiction. Considering how many hours I spend when I'm reading, I find that I can't do it anymore with my boyfriend around.

[Conreezy]

Just holding a guitar increases your chances of getting laid, dude. Its an empirical fact. Just as long as nobody tries to make you play it, sitting down with a guitar at a party will have all the girls flocking over to you.

[Guest]

Doooood. This. More of this. I don't know anyone who doesn't get sexier with the addition of a guitar and making nice music for those around them. I dunno, have you ever found that works for you?

Maybe, once. When I was like 14, I was still learning (I started late ;-; ) and I was holding my buddy's guitar and she was "COULD YOU PLAY ME A SONG?" I was about to play a few very basic chords to get her off my back but I was interrupted by something and I had to give the guitar back. Otherwise, no, I've never used that skill explicitly to get girls. The unfortunate stereotype is that douchebags do that when there's dudes who DO know how to play also get labeled as d-bags. So I keep the fact I play pretty low-profile.

Last summer I was at my another buddy's house and I was playing a chord progression along to a Creedence tune and two of my friends who're currently dating each other look at me in bewilderment, "Mikey, WTF we didn't know you played guitar!?" And I said, "Yeah... I been playing since forever..." Turns out they never saw me play much. But it's k, I'm pretty shy about my guitar abilities since I don't practice as much as I should.

Yeah, its on the scummy side... Not like that though, he didn't do anything wrong, its just... He started way, way, way too young. Its hard for me to wrap my head around it, because ever time he says "the first time I had sex" I hear in my mind "when you were molested as a child" even though he doesn't have any problem with it or see it as a particularly negative thing. I just... And then even when he was in a longer term sexual relationship with his first real girlfriend (who was his own age) they were still both way, way, way too young. I just... Try not to think about it too much. I suppose I should talk about it on here sometime, because it is eating away at me somewhat not knowing what to say, but yeah.

Don't do what he did.

I would ask how young, but that's not my place and if it's young enough then, I'm not gonna ask and you talk about that when you're ready, obviously.

[Prajnaparamita]

I would ask how young, but that's not my place and if it's young enough then, I'm not gonna ask and you talk about that when you're ready, obviously.

Let me just put it this way--he claims he's capable of controlling when he comes and being satisfied without a finale on his part because he started having sex before he was physically capable of orgasm. Its not so much that I'm not ready, its that I don't know what I would be asking for when I go "he keeps telling me these things and arrrgggghhhh I just don't even know what to say". Would that be rant/advice/discuss? And I don't even know what to say. I'll type up that post soon though, maybe tomorrow.

[Guest]

Let me just put it this way--he claims he's capable of controlling when he comes and being satisfied without a finale on his part because he started having sex before he was physically capable of orgasm. Its not so much that I'm not ready, its that I don't know what I would be asking for when I go "he keeps telling me these things and arrrgggghhhh I just don't even know what to say". Would that be rant/advice/discuss? And I don't even know what to say. I'll type up that post soon though, maybe tomorrow.

That's pretty intense, I'll say that much without knowing extra details (not that I'd want to or am expecting any). Perhaps a rant/discussion? In any event, we'll be here.

As for my issue... I still don't have a clear solution to getting laid Maybe I'll back on the Tinder train. D:

-Bo Burnham lol-

Ehehehe, that's funny. There's also one of those videos for guitar too.

[Guest]

I got on Tinder (again, for the nth time). That was short lived and pointless waste of time.

So, I take it there is no real way to get rid of my attraction to people? Or a severe reduction of libido? I've considered chemical castration, but it sounds like way more trouble (and expensive) than it's worth.

[Prajnaparamita]

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. If its any consolation, I think a lot of people struggle with this too. For instance:

Boyfriend: "As of late, I just haven't been finding it enjoyable anymore to get myself off... I mean I still do it, but it just feels like a chore."
Me: "Honey, its been all of two weeks."

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. If its any consolation, I think a lot of people struggle with this too. For instance:

I understand, it's just... I dunno, it's been a difficult and emotional two weeks. Well, at least on the inside it has. I'm tired, I'm sad, and worst of all horny with no outlet. Makes me feel like a caged tiger. And I dunno what to do anymore, sexual frustration is one of THE most frustrating things I've had to deal with in my entire life. I hear about women that are dealing with the very same issues, but where are they? Why can't I find any so we can do eachother a favor? Guh.

Then, I'll get on Tinder and it's bot after bot after bot. I haven't the slightest clue as to how some of my buddies even met anyone from there, let alone hook up. To make make matter, not worse but more tedious, nobody on Tinder is looking to hook up?

I need to relax or something. I keep saying to myself "it's coming to a head", but nothing happens. Now I'm just ranting.

-mumblegrumble-

[Caffeinated]

Then, I'll get on Tinder and it's bot after bot after bot.

Is this really a thing? This whole bots on dating sites/apps thing? I mean, it's been a few years since I did any online dating, but I don't recall ever running across a single profile that appeared to be anything other than a real live man. But I do remember thinking how bizarre it was how many ads on craigslist seemed to want me to jump through hoops to "prove I was real" which always seemed strange and a little insulting. Like, of course I was real, what else would I be. How universal is this bot thing?

[Prajnaparamita]

I hear about women that are dealing with the very same issues, but where are they? Why can't I find any so we can do eachother a favor? Guh.

So when I was a freshman in college I went to an intensive language study summer school program, where I met this 23 year old female virgin, and upon getting to know her I couldn't help but blurt something out along the lines of "wow, men must be such shitheads that you could be this age and never have been on a date, what are they thinking!?" I guess she wasn't conventionally attractive in the buxom blonde sense, and the shallow might judge her as plain looking but up close you'd notice that she had large, lovely, doe-like brown eyes and fine features. She was super nice and approachable, very sex positive (she'd worked as an intern for Scarleteen) and the kind of person that you could shyly approach with all the questions you'd had about vibrators and such, and adorably nerdy. It just confused me how she could still be a virgin, and I didn't quite know how to reassure her that I'm sure he would come along, eventually.

On the last day of the program when I went to say goodbye I saw her snuggling up with a guy from the class above me looking like she was over the moon. I don't know if that story was of any help (probably not) but I guess for some people its just a matter of time?

Relaxing does sound like a good idea, but I don't know what advice I have for you there beyond what I've already given. So I guess I would hope that you could be kind to yourself for a bit now, as it sounds like things have just been tearing you up inside, and that sounds like it must be really draining. Take care of yourself, okay? And don't be afraid to rant, if that's what you need to do.

[Guest]

Then, I'll get on Tinder and it's bot after bot after bot.

Is this really a thing? This whole bots on dating sites/apps thing? I mean, it's been a few years since I did any online dating, but I don't recall ever running across a single profile that appeared to be anything other than a real live man. But I do remember thinking how bizarre it was how many ads on craigslist seemed to want me to jump through hoops to "prove I was real" which always seemed strange and a little insulting. Like, of course I was real, what else would I be. How universal is this bot thing?

Yes, bots are VERY much a thing, especially on Tinder. I would message the women I'm matched with and 20 minutes they message me a sketchy link to some camsite. Or some backdoor-style site where I can get the whole GFE for $120 an hour!! It's very discouraging.

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