Re: The fear of "Too Late"

[bomaye]

In my opinion, perhaps because I grew up poor, focusing on things that will get you a nest egg when you are in the relatively sweet spot of not having to earn money to support yourself would be a good place to start. Right now you can do short term, piece work, and do not have to worry about being precariously employed because you do not need to work to survive. You could even go day labor or seasonal work.

Not without transportation.

I think you said you were in a touristy place. Are there any hotels that are big enough to have a night shift cleaning crew?

And not within walking distance, buses don't run at night. I know there's janitor contractor type companies around here, I don't think a lot of places hire janitors themselves (and I think there's some certificate or other you need first, I dunno).

I went out to hand out a few more resume-type things today, only managed to get one with an application out. Instead of just trying to pump myself up I kind of just told myself I was going to fail to calm myself down

I guess there's a few more places I could try tomorrow. At what point do you go back to a place like Tim Hortons that didn't hire you a few weeks ago?

[reboot]

As far as I know you do not need a certificate to mop floors, empty garbage, and scrub toilets

Transport will be an issue, but in summer months you can bike. Just get some lights, reflective clothes, etc for night biking

EDIT: I would go back after X-mas. That is when hiring usually picks up again

[Enail]

If you're looking at things to build a nest egg while you don't need to work to survive, the internet-type stuff is also an option, since you ruled that out because you don't think it'd be enough to live on.

[bomaye]

As far as I know you do not need a certificate to mop floors, empty garbage, and scrub toilets

No like, seriously, I've seen job openings for janitor stuff and there were actual acronym-letter type things required for it

If you're looking at things to build a nest egg while you don't need to work to survive, the internet-type stuff is also an option, since you ruled that out because you don't think it'd be enough to live on.

Yeah, maybe. That transcription thing from way back in the thread seemed like a thing you do to buy yourself a coffee or something and not as much for building-nest-egg type stuff

[Enail]

If you don't buy the coffee, that's a couple of bucks in your account. You do a few times, you've got yourself a backup hot meal in your account. Do it more, you can build yourself up enough to pay some utility bills if money's tight some day when you're no longer living at home, and then a new computer when yours dies, or a deposit on an apartment when you need to move out.

Something I found when I started working was that the individual payments feel really puny. It feels like "I did all this and that's all I got?!" But if you just keep doing it, even ten minutes a day or a few hours a week or whatever, even low pay, it adds up to something real. Even a little money is way, way better than no money.

[reboot]

Any money coming in is more than you have now. And that is a job where you do not even have to leave home.

Those janitorial jobs are probably more for the industrial cleaning where you need to be trained on using the chemicals. Basic janitorial/housekeeping does not require training of any sort which is why it is a good start for people who do not speak English and did not finish elementary school. I know my Canadian counterparts place refugees, many of whom are illiterate in any language, in those jobs all the time, so your standards cannot be too much higher than the US

[Werel]

This narrative was built naturally, I'm not totally sure how to build or tweak a new one that overwrites the other one

Mental affirmative action: identify that you have a bias in one direction, force yourself to consciously compensate for it. Weight positive feedback more heavily until it feels like you’re weighting it WAY too heavily, and then you might be getting close to balanced.

"I'm tall, yay."

"I can retain information easily enough so that I never really had problems in high school, woohoo."

"I can type quickly and coherently.”

DON’T MAKE US ADD TO THIS LIST :shout:

Typing fast, though, there’s your transcription money.

That kind of defiant streak gets you banned from message boards

Noooo we're supposed to be the whispers, not the bullhorns

or mocked by people who don't want to hear it :p

This is sort of missing the point of defiance

The defiance I'm thinking of is, in Pokemon terms, the equivalent of the Stockpile/Swallow paradigm (Spit Up to be used sparingly). Except you're stockpiling mockery and antagonism instead of turns. Defiance which metabolizes hostility into pure contrarian strength is a powerful tool; just turn Spit Up, which you're already real good at, into Swallow. (Okay that's a tortured analogy and shut up about the double-entendres but you kinda see what I'm saying, yeah?)

(It's not as much a happy life as a distracting one, I guess. I binge on things, including info things, because I get curious about them because there's nothing better going on. It's lonely, it's empty, it's not terribly fulfilling, it does nothing for status or anything that can tangibly improve life, and it doesn't improve mood as much as just bury it for awhile.)

Maybe it’d be helpful to focus on the fulfillment thing now, then: finding things that legitimately fill up some of that empty space. If you find things that fulfill you, it’s a win-win: your life as it stands now is improved, and no matter what happens in the future, you know of something(s) that you can pursue to find real joy. Even if you have to do some stuff you don’t like to make ends meet, having things which fulfill you, which give you an internal reserve of joy to buoy you up, will make dealing with them easier and more worth it. Seeking fulfillment isn’t as frustrating and despair-inducing as tackling the school/work/money issue, right? You may end up single, poor, lonely, and precariously employed (none of which are guaranteed), but it’s better to be those things and fulfilled to some degree than just those things.

And now, while you have all your time at your disposal, is a pretty ideal time to experiment with stuff that might really move you, instead of just distract you. (And finding things that fulfill you is really just a trial-and-error thing, not a thing you can game out just by thinking about it, but it’s a trial-and-error thing where even the failures can be kind of fun).

[bomaye]

Typing fast, though, there’s your transcription money.

Accurately with proper proper punctuation, hrmmmmmmmm...

The defiance I'm thinking of is, in Pokemon terms, the equivalent of the Stockpile/Swallow paradigm (Spit Up to be used sparingly). Except you're stockpiling mockery and antagonism instead of turns. Defiance which metabolizes hostility into pure contrarian strength is a powerful tool; just turn Spit Up, which you're already real good at, into Swallow. (Okay that's a tortured analogy and shut up about the double-entendres but you kinda see what I'm saying, yeah?)

I've had experience with being defiant about this kind of thing actually. Defiance as fuel never really battens down the hatches as much as it does prop them up with an unstable power source that can blow up the base just as easily as keep things out. It's lonely and hollows you out eventually.

Maybe it’d be helpful to focus on the fulfillment thing now, then: finding things that legitimately fill up some of that empty space. If you find things that fulfill you, it’s a win-win: your life as it stands now is improved, and no matter what happens in the future, you know of something(s) that you can pursue to find real joy. Even if you have to do some stuff you don’t like to make ends meet, having things which fulfill you, which give you an internal reserve of joy to buoy you up, will make dealing with them easier and more worth it. Seeking fulfillment isn’t as frustrating and despair-inducing as tackling the school/work/money issue, right? You may end up single, poor, lonely, and precariously employed (none of which are guaranteed), but it’s better to be those things and fulfilled to some degree than just those things.

And now, while you have all your time at your disposal, is a pretty ideal time to experiment with stuff that might really move you, instead of just distract you. (And finding things that fulfill you is really just a trial-and-error thing, not a thing you can game out just by thinking about it, but it’s a trial-and-error thing where even the failures can be kind of fun).

Tackling the stuff is more despair inducing because there's requirements and choices and all that, but fulfillment, I don't even know where that would come from at this point. I don't really have hopes and dreams and just randomly doing things or looking into things doesn't fill that thing that's missing?

[Enail]

You're going to kill me if I suggest imagining things, aren't you?   But it seems like maybe you'd need to actually allow yourself to want things and explore that wanting a bit, as well as just going ahead and experimenting with different stuff like Werel suggested.

Also, yay, finally someone used the smiley!

[bomaye]

You're going to kill me if I suggest imagining things, aren't you?

 

But it seems like maybe you'd need to actually allow yourself to want things and explore that wanting a bit, as well as just going ahead and experimenting with different stuff like Werel suggested.

Yeah. Might be time to go back to that abandoned area of the brain and see if it can be used for anything

[Werel]

Also, yay, finally someone used the smiley!

I think it sees a healthy use in PMs.

But it seems like maybe you'd need to actually allow yourself to want things and explore that wanting a bit

This is wise.

And if you can't reactivate that empty wanting area of the brain, boom, new career = Buddhist monk. They'll even let you keep your computer.

I've had experience with being defiant about this kind of thing actually. Defiance as fuel never really battens down the hatches as much as it does prop them up with an unstable power source that can blow up the base just as easily as keep things out. It's lonely and hollows you out eventually.

Mm, I see what you're saying. Yeah, there are corrosive kinds of defiance, and I don't know if I can imagine defiance as a road to long-term peace/stability, but it can be useful for propping up the hatches so you can weather a particular onslaught. Then, once not under threat, you can work on building a sustainable defense system. Seems like if you do decide to try the work/school thing, you may need to engage backup shields at first, and defiance is as good a temp fuel as any. Especially for people who have a natural flair for it.

Rambly story about personal uses of defiance:

So the point of defiance isn't necessarily to protect you forever, it's to weather the spots where the main defenses are lacking or down altogether.

[Enail]

Also, yay, finally someone used the smiley!

I think it sees a healthy use in PMs.

I knew I could count on you!

[bomaye]

Also, yay, finally someone used the smiley!

I think it sees a healthy use in PMs.

But it seems like maybe you'd need to actually allow yourself to want things and explore that wanting a bit

This is wise.

I want to be a normal, happy person

Mm, I see what you're saying. Yeah, there are corrosive kinds of defiance, and I don't know if I can imagine defiance as a road to long-term peace/stability, but it can be useful for propping up the hatches so you can weather a particular onslaught. Then, once not under threat, you can work on building a sustainable defense system. Seems like if you do decide to try the work/school thing, you may need to engage backup shields at first, and defiance is as good a temp fuel as any. Especially for people who have a natural flair for it.

Rambly story about personal uses of defiance:

So the point of defiance isn't necessarily to protect you forever, it's to weather the spots where the main defenses are lacking or down altogether.

This sounds like an awful place for a 30-year old first-time student who is otherwise on equal footing with the kids to go :p

[Enail]

I want to be a normal, happy person :/

That sounds reasonable, but not very specific, which makes it a bit hard to use as a guide. There are lots of ways to be a normal, happy(ish - no one's 100% happy) person, so it's kind of a question of which normal, happy person you want to be (I mean, obviously it's got to be you, but what kind of you?)

[bomaye]

That sounds reasonable, but not very specific, which makes it a bit hard to use as a guide. There are lots of ways to be a normal, happy(ish - no one's 100% happy) person, so it's kind of a question of which normal, happy person you want to be (I mean, obviously it's got to be you, but what kind of you?)

I never know how to answer this.

How did you guys figure out how to answer this?

[Enail]

For me, a lot of it was just trying different random things in the 'for fun' realm, and doing things based on "that doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out' in the work realm, and I guess also by observing other people and interacting with them and paying attention to what I wished I was and what actually felt right and good when I tried it. And then kind of refining and adjusting course as I got more information from doing those things about what I wanted and what mattered to me and what downsides and compromises (because there always are downsides and compromises) felt livable within an overall good life. It's gradual and kind of always a work in progress, but over time I got some ideas about it, more of a few points on a compass than a whole detailed map.

ETA: And also, uh, imagining ( ), a lot of 'what if this but not that,' or 'if I could X, what would that actually be like.'

[Werel]

How did you guys figure out how to answer this?

I dunno, I never wanted to be normal.

Tough question to answer in ways that'll be useful to you, because...

1. Aspiring to parents' happiness (not for you I don't think)
2. Stuff I've always just wanted since I was a kid (unless maybe kid-you did want things?)
3. Being given lots of opportunities to try lots of different things as a child, and develop varied likes and dislikes (whoops, privilege)
4. Values? Gut feelings on what's a good or less good way to spend my life? I think you have an ethical compass you feel reasonably sure about, right? (even if it just says "non-interference," that's still a gut direction to work with)
5. Everything Enail said about trying, reflecting on, imagining, and observing your reactions to new things.

[Enail]

(even if it just says "non-interference," that's still a gut direction to work with)

Hey, it sort of worked for the Enterprise!

[bomaye]

2. Kid me wanted a library full of books (I do have books now) and to be a comic book artist (right before he got bored of drawing)

3. I don't think I missed out too much on the "trying out things" part. The only thing I was firmly told "no" to was hockey, which between the finally-straight teeth from dental work, the wonky skating ankles (I can do it, but not with any kind of speed), the early AM wake-ups, being pretty old to start, how effing expensive equipment is, that I would've changed my mind pretty quickly, that I'd already not stuck with an after-school sports team in elementary school and the fact that I played street hockey anyways, probably a really good choice. Missed out more on the social freedom part, I think

4 and 5.

Like, it felt good doing a scary thing like asking to see a manager and giving a resume (I went to the convenience store I frequent and the lady there used to be a manager at 7-Eleven and said I should probably go pester the manager there every day, but she's also a kind of in-your-face type of person), and it was kind of nice wandering around the little mall area when we went to Thanksgiving dinner elsewhere (though, cute girls everywhere, I didn't like not knowing where I was going), but they're also things that are like... I'm not sure how to say it. Not illuminating, maybe?

[Enail]

That sounds like there's a bit of general good-feeling to be had in pushing your limits a bit and doing things towards a rough idea of adulting skills/experience.

So, as well as just generally working on the job/future stuff as you've been doing, maybe go back to/start that list of "everything you think you need to adult," and include experiences that you'd want to be more comfortable with as an adult, and set yourself something to try each week.

Also, what would you think about taking up some kind of skill-building hobby, and just trying to do it a little every day? Drawing seems like the obvious one, there are all kinds of bite-sized challenges you could set yourself to do one a day. For me, at least, doing things that are optional and with no pressure/expectations, but that show improvement if you keep them up, can be both informative and satisfying in themselves. If the amount you have to do each day is really tiny, it can be easier to push yourself into the habit, and forming habits that build on themselves is itself good practice.

[bomaye]

How to win lottery so have money so universe will leave me alone instead of doing anything?

[Enail]

Let us know if you figure that one out!

[bomaye]

Will do :p

This otherwise is not going to go well :p

[Enail]

Something new to make you think that?

[bomaye]

Kind of a combination of browsing 4chan and seeing a job-specific thread and going "Oh yeah, that's why no one would hire me" anddddd the answer to that question about what do you want/happy etc, which is just to be mostly left alone for various reasons.

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