Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Wondering on Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:41 pm

F-ing anti-vaxxers.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:46 pm

Wondering wrote:F-ing anti-vaxxers.
Agreed. Why can't we just say "all kids need to be vaccinated" and be done with it?

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Wondering on Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:52 pm

Hey, I'm perfectly fine with people making a stupid, moronic choice not to vaccinate their kids. But those people and their kids don't get to live with the rest of us. They can live on an anti-vaxxer quarantine island with each other.

(This does not apply to people who can't be vaccinated, but would like to be, due to health reasons.)

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by WJMorris3 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:04 pm

Wondering wrote:(This does not apply to people who can't be vaccinated, but would like to be, due to health reasons.)

Forgot all about that. But that's why everyone else needs to be vaccinated - so that the herd protection can work.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by eselle28 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:09 pm

Wondering wrote:F-ing anti-vaxxers.

Hear, hear. I really feel for parents, because I was worried enough when it was just my niece who was too young to have been vaccinated.

I don't even know what people can do to get the message across that these diseases are deadly and frightening. It's not even as if they're some ancient, forgotten horror. There are a couple of generations of people living with side effects from polio or measles or who were born with birth defects due to rubella. I kind of wonder what anti-vaxxers' parents and grandparents think about their choices.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by reboundstudent on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:34 pm

eselle28 wrote:
Wondering wrote:F-ing anti-vaxxers.

Hear, hear. I really feel for parents, because I was worried enough when it was just my niece who was too young to have been vaccinated.

I don't even know what people can do to get the message across that these diseases are deadly and frightening. It's not even as if they're some ancient, forgotten horror. There are a couple of generations of people living with side effects from polio or measles or who were born with birth defects due to rubella. I kind of wonder what anti-vaxxers' parents and grandparents think about their choices.

From my super-conservative, "King Obama wants to rule America", "Rush Limbaugh has some good points," grandparents, horrified. We're an older extended family now, with only 2 little cousins under 15, but one Christmas I was having an argument with my older cousins about vaccines in the kitchen ("They're full of toxins!") When I stomped away angry and ran into my grandmother, I mentioned why I was upset, and she was just flabbergasted. She could not comprehend why anyone wouldn't vaccinate.

I am deeply afraid that it's going to require these diseases being right in front of them before a lot of the anti-vaxxers wake up. That reminds me, I need to get myself in for a booster shot...
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by reboot on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:38 pm

I just want to dump all the antivax people in a place where measles is the leading cause of death in children http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

And then take their passports
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:52 pm

reboundstudent wrote:
eselle28 wrote:
Wondering wrote:F-ing anti-vaxxers.

Hear, hear. I really feel for parents, because I was worried enough when it was just my niece who was too young to have been vaccinated.

I don't even know what people can do to get the message across that these diseases are deadly and frightening. It's not even as if they're some ancient, forgotten horror. There are a couple of generations of people living with side effects from polio or measles or who were born with birth defects due to rubella. I kind of wonder what anti-vaxxers' parents and grandparents think about their choices.

From my super-conservative, "King Obama wants to rule America", "Rush Limbaugh has some good points," grandparents, horrified. We're an older extended family now, with only 2 little cousins under 15, but one Christmas I was having an argument with my older cousins about vaccines in the kitchen ("They're full of toxins!") When I stomped away angry and ran into my grandmother, I mentioned why I was upset, and she was just flabbergasted. She could not comprehend why anyone wouldn't vaccinate.

I am deeply afraid that it's going to require these diseases being right in front of them before a lot of the anti-vaxxers wake up. That reminds me, I need to get myself in for a booster shot...

How old are you grandparents? Because if they're old enough they probably lived through many health scares (like Polio) that required a vaccine to avoid serious complications.

I don't know whats gonna take anti-vaxxers to realize that this shit is important, maybe another polio crisis?

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Wondering on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:08 pm

The Mikey wrote:I don't know whats gonna take anti-vaxxers to realize that this shit is important, maybe another polio crisis?

We're having a measles outbreak right now and they still don't care. They've not lived through an epidemic, and -- most reprehensibly -- they rely on herd immunity to protect their children while making their children a threat to others.

They seem to view measles the way a lot of people view chicken pox: "Oh, I (my mom/granddad/aunt) had it and now I'm immune. Let my kid have it, too, for natural immunity." Okay, yeah, but chicken pox outside a very limited age range is also dangerous, and has potential serious complications just like measles.  Guess what? My baby will be getting the chicken pox vaccine as soon as she can, even though both her dad and I had the disease and survived.

Also, even if your kid survives, why would you want to make them suffer through something avoidable like that? In addition to being stupid, it just seems mean.

There were 19 cases of measles in all of the Americas in 2005. Last year, there were over 3000. These anti-vaxxers are a public menace. And I'm particularly worried about my little one because I live in an area with a high anti-vax rate. Not as high as Orange County, mind, but far higher than it should be.

(Did everyone here have chicken pox? I honestly don't know when the vaccine was developed, but I know I'm 20 years older than some folks here.)


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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Wondering on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:18 pm

eselle28 wrote:There are a couple of generations of people living with side effects from polio or measles or who were born with birth defects due to rubella.

Ugh. I'm not immune to rubella. Had all my MMRs and boosters, but I'm one of those statistics where it didn't take. I was worried all through my pregnancy about this. Rubella seems not a big deal to adults, but to pregnancies? Devastating.

reboundstudent wrote:From my super-conservative, "King Obama wants to rule America", "Rush Limbaugh has some good points," grandparents, horrified. We're an older extended family now, with only 2 little cousins under 15, but one Christmas I was having an argument with my older cousins about vaccines in the kitchen ("They're full of toxins!") When I stomped away angry and ran into my grandmother, I mentioned why I was upset, and she was just flabbergasted. She could not comprehend why anyone wouldn't vaccinate.

Thing is, though, it's liberals, not conservatives, who mostly aren't vaccinating. My husband calls it the Left's global warming. It's just the Left's version of science denial. That's why the areas most unvaccinated are on the West Coast in the the Bay Area, and the Los Angeles, Portland, and Seattle areas.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by UristMcBunny on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:21 pm

The impact on other people can really be immense and it's so upsetting. I read a blog post by a teacher whose own child is immunosuppressed. As more anti-vaxxers started sending their kids to the school she works at, she started facing some really tough choices. Especially when those same people had no problem allowing their children to attend school while sick.

Her own child's life was put at risk even though he didn't go to that school, because she - although immune herself - was getting exposed to deadly illnesses from other people's kids.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Wondering on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:26 pm

If they'd stop letting people out of the vaccines required for attending school for anything other than a medical reason, much of this issue would be solved.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by KMR on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:35 pm

Wondering wrote:
(Did everyone here have chicken pox? I honestly don't know when the vaccine was developed, but I know I'm 20 years older than some folks here.)

I'm 28 and I got chicken pox when I was 8 or 9 years old, but I think the vaccine was introduced sometime shortly after that, because I remember being fascinated by the fact that what was considered pretty much a rite of passage for most kids at the time I and my classmates were getting sick with it was suddenly no longer a thing.

Also, I'm right there with you that people should be far more afraid of chicken pox (and other such diseases) than many of them are. My grandfather developed a very bad case of shingles a couple years before he died, and the pain never went away, diminishing his quality of life severely in those last few years. And my mother had chicken pox when she was pregnant with me, fortunately not at a time in the pregnancy when it could have caused developmental defects, but still a scarily close call.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by reboundstudent on Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:41 pm

Wondering wrote:
(Did everyone here have chicken pox? I honestly don't know when the vaccine was developed, but I know I'm 20 years older than some folks here.)

I did. I'm 30, and I got it when I was around 9 or 10 I think? Before the vaccine came out, anyway. I have pretty much no memories of it, so I think mine was a particularly easy case.

And yeah I absolutely agree it's the left's global warming.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by reboot on Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:50 pm

reboundstudent wrote:
Wondering wrote:
(Did everyone here have chicken pox? I honestly don't know when the vaccine was developed, but I know I'm 20 years older than some folks here.)

I did. I'm 30, and I got it when I was around 9 or 10 I think? Before the vaccine came out, anyway. I have pretty much no memories of it, so I think mine was a particularly easy case.

And yeah I absolutely agree it's the left's global warming.

I had it when I was 5-6ish. I remember being itchy and covered in calamine lotion and I am pretty sure I gave it to my brother. I also remember a woman in college getting it as an adult and getting REALLY sick.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by eselle28 on Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:18 pm

Wondering wrote:
(Did everyone here have chicken pox? I honestly don't know when the vaccine was developed, but I know I'm 20 years older than some folks here.)

I'm 34 and had an average case when I was 6, but my baby sister caught it from me and was sick for weeks. I remember mostly because my parents ended up using all their paid and unpaid days off during that month, and then spent the rest of the year going to work when they had the flu or scrambling to find childcare when my sister or I were sick. They still complain about it sometimes!

My entire class had chicken pox at the same time, and one of my classmates gave it to her father. I'm pretty sure he ended up being hospitalized.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by waxingjaney on Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:37 pm

The Mikey wrote:I don't know whats gonna take anti-vaxxers to realize that this shit is important, maybe another polio crisis?
Watching their kids die.

I suppose you could try the scared-straight approach and have them read Thucidydes's descriptions of the Plague of Athens.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by The Wisp on Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:29 pm

Wondering wrote:(Did everyone here have chicken pox? I honestly don't know when the vaccine was developed, but I know I'm 20 years older than some folks here.)

I'm 21 and had the vaccine, so I never had chicken pox. Apparently when I got it it was pretty new.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Gentleman Johnny on Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:47 pm

waxingjaney wrote:
The Mikey wrote:I don't know whats gonna take anti-vaxxers to realize that this shit is important, maybe another polio crisis?
Watching their kids die.

I suppose you could try the scared-straight approach and have them read Thucidydes's descriptions of the Plague of Athens.

That's the part that bothers me. Even if vaccines did cause autism (they don't), not vaccinating your kids sends the message that you prefer a dead child to an autistic one.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:01 pm

Wondering wrote:(Did everyone here have chicken pox? I honestly don't know when the vaccine was developed, but I know I'm 20 years older than some folks here.)

I did - it was terrible. I think I got the shot too? Can't remember. But my entire family is majorly pro-vaccine.

Australia in general seems to be trying to avoid the whole affair - an anti-vaxxer tried to fly from the States and hold talks here and almost got banned from the country. Instead, they voluntarily cancelled their trip citing 'safety concerns'.

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Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Wondering on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:11 pm

reboot wrote:I had it when I was 5-6ish. I remember being itchy and covered in calamine lotion and I am pretty sure I gave it to my brother. I also remember a woman in college getting it as an adult and getting REALLY sick.

That's like my memory: lots of calamine lotion all over. I can't see calamine lotion to this day without thinking of chicken pox. I got it when I was 5, Christmas break during kindergarten. All the kids in my class got it, I'm pretty sure. Timing worked out well. But I had a one-year-old brother, and my parents were worried. He ended up getting it when he was 9 and had some danger signs for complications because he was "old" for getting it.

I have also had the vaccine. They told me to get it when I started trying to get pregnant even though I'd had chicken pox already.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by nearly_takuan on Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:40 pm

Got chicken pox when I was four. That was 1994, one year before the varicella vaccine became available in the US.
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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:46 pm

waxingjaney wrote:
The Mikey wrote:I don't know whats gonna take anti-vaxxers to realize that this shit is important, maybe another polio crisis?
Watching their kids die.

I suppose you could try the scared-straight approach and have them read Thucidydes's descriptions of the Plague of Athens.

You know, I was originally gonna say that but I didn't want to come off as an asshole even if it was the truth. Because, honestly, I would never wish death upon anyone's kids (not that you are, Janey Razz).

Plague of Athens also sounds badass -- terrifying, but badass. Razz

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by Wondering on Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:18 am

I don't wish death on anyone's kids. Those kids are victims, as far as I'm concerned.

But you're not going to convince anti-vaxxers that diseases are bad through an appeal to logic. They are Believers. And trying to logic people out of their beliefs does not work.

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Re: Vaccines and anti-vaxxers

Post by caliseivy on Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:54 am

Gentleman Johnny wrote:
That's the part that bothers me. Even if vaccines did cause autism (they don't), not vaccinating your kids sends the message that you prefer a dead child to an autistic one.
That does seem to be the unstated message underlying some of the arguments against vaccinating (not all, but some), and it's a pretty disturbing one.

I never got chicken pox as a child, but I think I got the vaccine. I know I've gotten the other ones. I guess I didn't have enough contact with other kids to catch chicken pox.
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